Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,398
Untied said:
The bolded examples are not anti-semitic unless anti-semitism = opposing Israel, which those accusing Corbyn of anti-semitism continually claim is not a conflation they are trying to make. Meanwhile the first three are people he has shared platforms / meetings with in the context of pro-Palestinian campaigning. In other words 7 of his 11 examples are about Israel/Palestine.
Click to expand...
The second and third of your bolded examples involve the use of classically antisemitic tropes applied to Israel and Zionism - Jews as a disease who deceptively control the media, and Jews deceiving the world in order to foment conflict. This is exactly where so-called ‘criticism’ of Israel crosses into antisemitic territory. The Hamas example is simply recognizing that Hamas is an organization with antisemitism at the heart of its worldview.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,398
Also I’m not sure why he gets a pass for the first three simply because of the particular context these encounters happened in.
 

ThierryHenry

wishes he could watch Arsenal games with KM
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
13,748
Location
London Town
Jeremy Corbyn, who didn’t notice the antisemitism in a wreath-laying to honour one of the planners of the Munich massacre of Israeli athletes.
Click to expand...
Untied said:
The bolded examples are not anti-semitic unless anti-semitism = opposing Israel, which those accusing Corbyn of anti-semitism continually claim is not a conflation they are trying to make. Meanwhile the first three are people he has shared platforms / meetings with in the context of pro-Palestinian campaigning. In other words 7 of his 11 examples are about Israel/Palestine.
Click to expand...
Eh?
 

sun_tzu

The Art of Bore
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
19,536
Location
Still waiting for the Youthquake

A new kind of politics indeed.

No doubt it's just proof that Watson is in the pocket of Murdoch (or some other equally bad excuse)

Will he sack Watson or admit there is a problem...

Or in other words how many MPs will watson take with him when he is sacked / deselected
 
Last edited:

jeff_goldblum

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
3,917
sun_tzu said:

A new kind of politics indeed.

No doubt it's just proof that Watson is in the pocket of Murdoch etc

Will he sack Watson or admit there is a problem...

Or in other words how many MPs will watson take with him
Click to expand...
It doesn't really sound like you know enough about the Labour Party to be posting in this thread as often as you are. The Labour leader can't sack the deputy - they are both elected democratically by the electoral college system. Watson was elected as deputy in the same election Corbyn first became leader, I remember because I voted for them both.
 

sun_tzu

The Art of Bore
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
19,536
Location
Still waiting for the Youthquake
jeff_goldblum said:
It doesn't really sound like you know enough about the Labour Party to be posting in this thread as often as you are. The Labour leader can't sack the deputy - they are both elected democratically by the electoral college system. Watson was elected as deputy in the same election Corbyn first became leader, I remember because I voted for them both.
Click to expand...
I voted in the elections myself... And left not long after (had been a member for 15 years)
There are clearly mechanisms for Corbyn sending his anti Semitic hit squad after Watson's role... Including deselecting him

Also wouldn't be the first time people had tried to go after him...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tom-watson-labour-antisemitism-twitter-resignwatson-corbyn-video-ian-austin-a8479081.html?amp

Let's see if Corbyn accepts their is a problem or attacks Watson and there are motions started to remove him

 

Silva

Full Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
30,756
Location
Smoke crack like Isaac Asimov
that poll is useless btw, unless tigs suddenly find another 630 people to field around the country which they can't because they're not a political party, not that it really matters outside election seasons
 

jeff_goldblum

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
3,917
sun_tzu said:
I voted in the elections myself... And left not long after (had been a member for 15 years)
There are clearly mechanisms for Corbyn sending his anti Semitic hit squad after Watson's role... Including deselecting him

Also wouldn't be the first time people had tried to go after him...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tom-watson-labour-antisemitism-twitter-resignwatson-corbyn-video-ian-austin-a8479081.html?amp

Let's see if Corbyn accepts their is a problem or attacks Watson and there are motions started to remove him
Click to expand...
I know you don't like the guy, but your portrayal of Corbyn as a sort of mafia boss organising hits on his political rivals using imaginary "mechanisms" is pure fantasy. Aside from the fact that he's not the one-dimensional cartoon villain you see in your head, you're vastly overestimating his political savvy. That sort of maneuvering is more in Watson's wheelhouse; before he was deputy leader his biggest splash in internal party politics was ousting Blair to ensure Brown became the next Prime Minister without any sort of democratic procedure.

He's a very old hand at factional plotting and, as with when he flipped on Blair, basically every statement he's made in the last 4 years has been crafted to put pressure on Corbyn. I'm sure you'll admit that Watson attacking Corbyn on antisemitism comes across shallow and hypocritical given his history. As a then-party member with a passion for opposing racism, you will have been furious when Watson ran that xenophobic by-election campaign for Liam Byrne in 2004.

I do however entirely agree that Corbyn is an issue for Labour. The next leader needs to be able to continue the thread of the 2017 manifesto, the centre-left economic core of which was hugely popular, whilst not having Corbyn's baggage. The problem is that anyone who doesn't immediately bin that in favour of centre right economic policy will find themselves facing the same internal challenges Corbyn has.
 

Sweet Square

ˈkämyənəst
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
24,211
Location
The Zone
That'sHernandez said:
I’m assuming you’re a pretty normal guy, sort of like me? I find it increasingly scary that normal people are able to turn a blind eye to this kind of stuff because the political leader in question appeals to their political beliefs.
.
Click to expand...
Just a few examples

The most shocking accusation, originating with The Daily Mail, is that Corbyn has “long standing links” with Paul Eisen, a “notorious” Holocaust denier involved in the group Deir Yassin Remembered.

Eisen certainly expresses disgusting views, denying the Nazi Holocaust took place and frequently expressing other anti-Semitic opinions on his blog.

However, his only real notoriety is for his attempts to infiltrate the Palestine solidarity movement.

Once it became clear what his views were, he was widely condemned and shunned by a movement which is fundamentally anti-racist in its basic principles. Indeed, even in the blog post which the Mail relied on as the source for its smear, Eisen admits that the movement has long “despised me.”

The only real link between the two men (as the Mail conveniently omitted) is that Eisen happens to live in Corbyn’s Islington parliamentary constituency in North London.

Eisen claims to have met him in that capacity – as Corbyn is his member of parliament. It is nonetheless odd that the Mail would be so keen to take the word of a Holocaust denier when it comes to his relationship with Corbyn.

Indeed, even on the Deir Yassin Remembered website, Eisen is not named on the contact page, the About page or the Board of Advisors page.

The page misleadingly includes several people as advisors who resigned after some of the the group’s troubling associations became clear.

This includes the Palestinian-American novelist Susan Abulhawa, who stepped down after Eisen wrote an anti-Semitic post on his blog.

The site of an infamous historical massacre of Palestinian civilians, Deir Yassin was a Palestinian village invaded and destroyed by Zionist militias before the establishment of Israel.

Corbyn was therefore not the only person misled by Deir Yassin Remembered, as detailed in recent blog posts by long standing Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) activists Diane Langford and Tony Greenstein.

The Jewish Socialist journalist Charlie Pottins recounts on his blog the real story of Paul Eisen’s transformation. As he puts it: “if Jeremy Corbyn attended annual events commemorating the Deir Yassin massacre, where is the evidence that he or anybody else at these events thought they were there to support Holocaust denial?”

Finally, it’s worth noting that, as Greenstein recounts, Corbyn was present, as PSC patron, at the 2012 PSC conference where a Holocaust denier was expelled by a massive majority

https://electronicintifada.net/blog...-semitism-attacks-jeremy-corbyn-are-dishonest
Click to expand...

One of the accusations leveled at Salah was that he had invoked the anti-Semitic blood libel in a 2007 speech during a Palestinian demonstration against Israeli occupation in Jerusalem.

But the version of the speech reported in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz (and relied on during the UK Home Office’s court case against Salah) inserted the word “Jewish” into its version of the speech.

Salah argued that the mention of “holy bread” was actually a reference to the the Spanish inquisition spilling the blood of children and using religion as a cover for its crimes.

In a Guardian article published after he was vindicated, Salah clarified that “I don’t believe in the ‘blood libel’ against Jews and I reject it in its entirety” (but a Guardian editor admitted in the comments section that she had removed this key paragraph from the published opinion piece).

The following year an Israeli court found Salah had not used the blood libel and acquitted him of incitement to racism. But the court jailed him for “incitement” over the protest, which the Israeli government – typically – characterized as a “riot.”

Last year, another Israeli court overturned the acquittal – siding again with the state. On Tuesday, Salah’s lawyer told Middle East Eye that he had appealed the case in the Israeli high court and a ruling is expected in the coming months.

Israel’s long campaign against Salah may even have gone as far as assassination attempts. In 2010, secret video footage showed that the Shin Bet, Israel’s secret police, had attempted to persuade Chaim Pearlman, a known extremist Jewish settler, to assassinate Salah.

https://electronicintifada.net/blog...-semitism-attacks-jeremy-corbyn-are-dishonest
Click to expand...


:lol: A Facebook post.


Mr Wadsworth said that he had not known at the time that she was Jewish, insisting that he was referring to Telegraph journalist Kate McCann handing Ms Smeeth his press release at the event.

He told the Morning Star: “Throughout my more than two-year ordeal, which has included trial by media, several of whom have had to correct inaccurate reporting of the case, as a lifelong anti-racist campaigner I have had to robustly refute any suggestion I am anti-semitic.”

Labour frontbencher Clive Lewis has said that Mr Wadsworth was merely making a political point about right-wing MPs working with right-wing newspapers.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/marc-wadsworth-takes-labour-court-over-expulsion
Click to expand...

The framing of that twitter thread is again complete shite.
 
Last edited:

Ubik

Nothing happens until something moves!
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
19,093
:lol: The way you've framed that Willsman one is astonishing. You've justified him talking about jewish "Trump fanatics", where he was talking about 68 british rabbis, by posting polling of Israelis. Genuinely exceptional.
 

Sweet Square

ˈkämyənəst
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
24,211
Location
The Zone
Ubik said:
:lol: The way you've framed that Willsman one is astonishing. You've justified him talking about jewish "Trump fanatics", where he was talking about 68 british rabbis, by posting polling of Israelis. Genuinely exceptional.
Click to expand...
What? I haven't mentioned Willsman at all ?

white text
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,398
Sweet Square said:
Just a few examples




:lol: A Facebook post.



The framing of that twitter thread is again complete shite.
Click to expand...
On Salah's blood libel, I doubt even the folk at Electronic Intifada actually believe his explanation. The judge who came to the decision which that article cites certainly didn't - go to sections 55-59: https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff83f60d03e7f57ebd084. For some reason EI omitted mention of that part of the ruling.

As EI note, the blood libel case was just "one of the accusations leveled at Salah"; according to the BBC, he has also claimed that Jews were warned to stay away from the WTC on 9/11, while his movement has praised bin Laden. EI chose not to address these.
 
Last edited:

Drifter

American
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
68,435
George Galloway takes on the media


Say it like it is.Hope they do reinstate him.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
Unsurprisingly, one of Britain's leading spivs is not a Corbyn fan:
Guardian said:
Lord Sugar has repeatedly threatened to leave the country if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister and also used the Radio Times interview to suggest the Labour leader is a Trotskyite who would put “statues of pseudo-Lenin in Trafalgar Square”.

The choice of statues in Trafalgar Square is a matter for the mayor of London, rather than Downing Street. It is unclear what Sugar meant by “pseudo-Lenin”.
Click to expand...
‘Unbelievable’: Alan Sugar irate over not owning a Bafta award ~
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/26/alan-sugar-irate-over-not-owning-bafta-statuette
 

Mozza

It’s Carrick you know
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
23,353
Location
Let Rooney be Rooney
nickm said:
Why didn’t the victims come forward earlier? Why didn’t they say anything at the time? Some of my best friends are Jewish... etc etc. Pretty much the gist of what I am hearing from JC or his zealots. It’s crap.
Click to expand...
That doesn't answer my question. These people told the party about these messages but couldn't be bothered to tell the actual people they were aimed at. So they themselves judged that this was not worth bothering with beyond reporting it to the party
 

Mozza

It’s Carrick you know
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
23,353
Location
Let Rooney be Rooney
sun_tzu said:

A new kind of politics indeed.

No doubt it's just proof that Watson is in the pocket of Murdoch (or some other equally bad excuse)

Will he sack Watson or admit there is a problem...

Or in other words how many MPs will watson take with him when he is sacked / deselected
Click to expand...
The centerists were in the shadow cabinet then resigned. Why are they upset when they are exactly where they resigned to be
 

That'sHernandez

Ominously close to getting banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
24,601
Smores said:
A story about an MP thinking the party has done too much against anti-semitism and said MP being censored over it is a bad reflection on Corbyns party how exactly?
Click to expand...
Looks and sounds to me like he's being roundly applauded when he says the party is too apologetic about the prevalent anti-semitism within it. Pretty sure that's also an indictment and lack of acknowledgement of said anti-semitism.

And Corbyn's response? A demand for an apology, no punishment whatsoever. Yeah, he really does take it seriously.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,721
That'sHernandez said:
Looks and sounds to me like he's being roundly applauded when he says the party is too apologetic about the prevalent anti-semitism within it. Pretty sure that's also an indictment and lack of acknowledgement of said anti-semitism.

And Corbyn's response? A demand for an apology, no punishment whatsoever. Yeah, he really does take it seriously.
Click to expand...
Well thats momentum members rather than the party applauding.

Are you under the impression Corbyn sits down and handles all disputes? He doesn't handle investigations and he hasn't just been asked for an apology he's been put under investigation as per party procedure and the outcome will be decided when it sits.
 

nickm

Full Member
Joined
May 20, 2001
Messages
9,255
Mozza said:
Chris Williamson is right, no amount of apologising will satisfy the Israel lobby, only a change in policy towards the Palestinians
Click to expand...
Or a change in approach towards Jewish people, that might work.

It’s a principle accepted for other ethnic groups, that they get to decide what discrimination against their group looks like. And it’s contingent on the rest of us to listen. Unless it’s Jews and Labour. Then any Momentum loudmouth gets to decide.
 
Last edited:

That'sHernandez

Ominously close to getting banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
24,601
Smores said:
Well thats momentum members rather than the party applauding.

Are you under the impression Corbyn sits down and handles all disputes? He doesn't handle investigations and he hasn't just been asked for an apology he's been put under investigation as per party procedure and the outcome will be decided when it sits.
Click to expand...
No I am not but I expect the leader of the Labour Party to hold a stronger opinion on such behaviour and language than ‘you must say sorry’. He’s only under investigation because of Tom Watson.
 

That'sHernandez

Ominously close to getting banned
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
24,601
nickm said:
Or a change in approach towards Jewish people, that might work.

It’s a principle accepted for other ethnic groups, that they get to decide what discrimination against their group looks like. And it’s contingent on the rest of us to listen. Unless it’s Jews and Labour. Then any Momentum loudmouth gets to decide.
Click to expand...
As far as Momentum are concerned, most Jews are well off so that legitimises their anti-semitism.
 

Mozza

It’s Carrick you know
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
23,353
Location
Let Rooney be Rooney
nickm said:
Or a change in approach towards Jewish people, that might work.

It’s a principle accepted for other ethnic groups, that they get to decide what discrimination against their group looks like. And it’s contingent on the rest of us to listen. Unless it’s Jews and Labour. Then any Momentum loudmouth gets to decide.
Click to expand...
They have, it keeps being rejected because nothing is enough until the policy on Palestine is changed. All the noise is to turn Labour into a party that will remove any member that says Zionism is unacceptable

A Palestinian would say Zionism is anti-palestinian racism. Who's definition of racism wins?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.