If wages and transfer spending worked the way you did, you'd finish out of the top four every single season since Poch has taken over. You're simply wrong about the way transfer spending works.Yes they do, the way you look at football is so naive. In nearly every league worldwide, the top spending teams are at the top.
We have a great attack. We also have a bunch of players not good enough to be starting who do start because we haven't signed a single player in a year. United have excellent squad depth COMPARED to Spurs. The likes of Trippier, Davies and Lloris have been putting in awful performances for the club for a while now but still start due to a lack of options, beyond that we're reliant on Sissoko/Winks as our first choice midfield and players like Aurier get regular game time despite barely being PL level. I said I thought Hazard was overrated by people who thought he was a top 5 player in the world or the best player in the league, but yes him and Kante are their two world class players, and are surrounded by very good ones.
I don't think Arsenal have a better squad, but I don't think they're a million miles off either, they have some very good players and a top coach. It wouldn't be an utter disaster if we finished 4th and them 3rd for example, it would be annoying and disappointing but it wouldn't be a total failure for the club. If we're comfortably third that's a very good season for us because we've met and exceeded our objective (top 4) with relative ease, which is what we're on course to do thus far.
It wouldn't be a failure though. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but in the context of what this club targets finishing top 4 is a successful season, its job done basically. Why would going deep in to the CL not matter because we won't win it, but finishing a single place ahead of a PL (which we also won't win) would matter? There's very little difference between fourth and third, I'd swap you 4th and a CL final right now for 3rd and getting knocked out in the first round.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
The biggest spending teams nearly always win the most trophies and finish the highest in the league, this is a simple fact and it's why the big six are so far ahead of the rest, not just in the premier league but across all the top leagues in Europe.
Of course that doesn't mean that a team can't upset that trend (as we have) but the team which does that is still at a severe disadvantage and doing very well to compete with clubs who are able to be more flexible, Poch basically has his hands tied if he has a problem, whereas most of his competitors can go out and fix it. It's usually the result of excellent management/coaching/shrewd spending when a side goes against the norm, a lot of which can be attributed to the way Pochettino has built this team. That's why us managing third is impressive and not 'par for the course'. There are limitations to this though, and he can't turn water in to wine, there are some issues which require money to fix.
Anyway this debate is getting tiresome, it happens every single time we lose a game or two. If we do finish lower than third we can discuss that, but right now that's where we're at and personally I think we will probably stay there despite a bit of rocky form.
It's just about finding that balance..........
If he keeps this run going, he’ll be free in the summer.
What is Poch doing? I know there's plenty who won't have a bad word said about him, but he's got his tactics completely wrong today. Arsenal have played one up top all game but Spurs insist on playing three at the back. That extra man in midfield has meant Arsenal have found it for too easy to transition, and his belated answer was to take another midfielder off and keep with 3 centrebacks? Mustafi playing fullback is an obvious weakness but there's been no concerted effort to expose him.
Arsenal seem more likely to score a second than Spurs to get an equalizer. Regardless of the result, he's not played this well.
Arsenal seem more likely to score a second than Spurs to get an equalizer. Regardless of the result, he's not played this well.
'Sakes, Spurs. Nice one.
Did you know that you’re not allowed to say Pochettino isn’t a world class tactician? Apparently he’s so good he plays like this on purpose.
A few weeks ago he was within touching distance of being top of the league. Now some of you are trying to make out he's no good. Seriously do you have any idea how ridiculous and knee jerk you sound
I can't tell if you're trying to suggest some logical inconsistency between those two statements? Because there isn't any.
Hyperbole was too high in the first place. He's a good to very-good manager, but has done little to be considered among the elite for me.
Tommy mate, you talk too much sense for a Liverpool fan
Agreed. He’s outside that bracket until he starts winning stuff.
The likes of Mourinho, Fergie, Pep we’re winning trophies with lesser teams in lesser leagues before they ended up winning the big ones.
Mauricio Fraudettino
Bit of a slip there. Baldy has never won with a lesser team and that is why most neutrals think career-wise SAF>Mou>Baldy.
3 CBs, Rose in midfield. Some terrible in game coaching today
Hard to find many people who have Mourinho ahead of Guardiola career-wise. Probably it is just Mourinho, his mum, Mendez, Duncel Castle and you who have him ahead of Pep.
He was awful today. No excuses.
Terrible, terrible decisions and stubbornly sticking to plans which do not work.
The next time we turn to Llorente coming on for the last 10 despite this working maybe once ever I'm going to put my foot through my computer screen.
That Rose in CM decision is verging on negligence. Not a single Spurs fan could possibly have thought that was ever going to go remotely well. We got a late equaliser and could possibly have seized momentum, but every single tactical decision from then on was wrong and allowed Arsenal to be the ones chasing the win.
Terrible, terrible decisions and stubbornly sticking to plans which do not work.
The next time we turn to Llorente coming on for the last 10 despite this working maybe once ever I'm going to put my foot through my computer screen.
That Rose in CM decision is verging on negligence. Not a single Spurs fan could possibly have thought that was ever going to go remotely well. We got a late equaliser and could possibly have seized momentum, but every single tactical decision from then on was wrong and allowed Arsenal to be the ones chasing the win.
He's going to get sacked if he keeps this up.
And then join United coaching staff. Put out the cones for us.
And then join United coaching staff. Put out the cones for us.
Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.
Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.
Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth
. Regardless, good result from him and showed once again his tactical acumen by putting Rose in midfield to change things up. The only thing limiting Pochettino is the overall quality of his team.Apparently some thought we should pay £40m to acquire Poch after paying Mourinho £20m to leave. Woody finally learned his lesson
His football is an eyesore. I can't believe they have reputation here for playing good football. Rely on fullbacks and when all fails turn into hoofball FC. Nothing else.
I seriously doubt most neutrals rank Mourinho ahead of Guardiola career-wise.
Rose lost the ball a few times in dangerous areas trying to run with the ball. They got lucky.Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.
Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth
Llorente was bought because Pochettino has only ever used a target man type striker upfront & shoes an inability to play without one - ie Rashford would not be a striker here. Llorente was bought as a second striker to Kane showing similar physical attributes to him but less technical ability hence the price.Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente. Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth
There is no need for Llorente for Spurs - but there is a need for Pochettino to have that player.
Aubameyang was bought in to replace a departing Giroud - Spurs already had Kane.Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente. Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth
Ozil has been anonymous for a while - Spurs already have Eriksen.
Torreira was a good signing, though.
A big deal is made out of Poch's spending, but he's simply needed to spend less than Arsenal in recent windows. A combined XI between the two clubs would still favour Spurs over Arsenal.
Lloris is better than arsenal's keeper. Spurs fullbacks and CB's are all better than arsenal's. Any CM of spurs is better than xhaka. Kane is better than any striker of spurs. Same with Son, Eriksen etc.
Such excuses from his fans.
Our squad depth is terrible, but you're more than stretching a bit if you think putting Danny Rose in midfield is showing tactical acumen.Once again showed the gap of quality between his side and the other top six. Arsenal bought in Aubameyang, Torreira and Ozil. Whereas, Pochettino bought in Lamela and Llorente.
Heck, I bet most Spurs fan would gladly take Lukaku, Sanchez and Fred from us just to have better squad depth
As many of us have said already, this Spurs squad has serious problems, which is why Poch gets so much credit when they are overachieving.
However, when you make bad decisions that further exacerbate such problems in your team then it can really cost you in games like this. That's what happened today as Poch made several decisions that simply did not work and he should face criticism for them.
However, when you make bad decisions that further exacerbate such problems in your team then it can really cost you in games like this. That's what happened today as Poch made several decisions that simply did not work and he should face criticism for them.
Amadaeus literally supports Poch. It's fecking weird.
Honestly if I was Lucas I'd be fuming. Game was crying out for a player like him, bring off Son (who was totally ineffective) and bring in a player who can take a different game to Arsenal's defenders. He was fantastic coming off the bench against Watford and changed the game, but it's almost like since then he's been frozen out.
Llorente offers nothing aside from nod ons and a threat from set pieces, and he forces us to play an archaic brand of football.
Llorente offers nothing aside from nod ons and a threat from set pieces, and he forces us to play an archaic brand of football.
Might want to have a word with UEFA who consistently ranked him in the top 10 of all time while Guardiola didn't make the list. Or you know look at the trophies won. It's clear projection to think that this is some bias, it's blindingly obvious that his achievements with Porto and Inter far outweight Guardiola's with Barcelona. Mourinho won half of Porto's european trophies in their whole history, and ended a 45 year CL drought for Inter.
Baldy is a better manager than Mou now, but the only exceptional thing he has done is with Barcelona. He has to win the CL with a second club to show that he can do with without an all time great team.
Yeah, he has a great team. Still not seeing the hype. Mostly seems to stem from improving players, but how much of that is just good scouting and the other coaches?
This. Almost every time the 'tactical masterclass' tag has been attributed to him it's him pushing his fullbacks up.
Masterclass my bum.
I was at the game today, the tactics were horrendous. The game was crying out for widdh, so what does be do 2nd half? Moves Rose to the middle .
A spurs fan having to downplay a Man United fan's view of spurs... you can't make this shit up
Well Squishy is actually a sensible Spurs fan, rather than someone that tries to actively play up fan stereotypes of being incredibly biased and blinkered about their own club.A spurs fan having to downplay a Man United fan's view of spurs... you can't make this shit up
It not about their starting eleven, but rather their squad of 25. All other top six clubs have a much richer team than spurs and it shows. Having the option to rotate and keep the starting eleven motivated to perform is a good way to improve players performance.
He made some misplaced passes and lost some balls, but he also showed some great forward run Spurs has been missing since they had dembele(even though Sissoko does that once in awhile, but not really as effective as dembele). He put energy in the midfield where it was lacking in the game and it was a good tactical moves as it saw verthongen pushed out wide and if kolshieny has not perfectly read his cross, that would have been one of the best tactical changes in a game this season.
Pochettino has played Son and Ali as false 9. He doesn’t only play with Target man. Plus Kane drops very deep a lot of time. He is barely a Target man ala lukaku, Luca Toni, Fellaini(
), etcHe's an awesome poster no doubt but it's just funny seeing a fan of the manager you support having to talk sense into you..
He nearly cost us a goal, not once but twice in stupid areas. He tried to nutmeg someone on the edge of his own box.
You're right about us missing Dembele, but the answer to that is not Danny Rose, not ever. He was completely pointless in a central midfield role and his one decent run forward led to him booting the ball out because he lacks the passing range to play that position. Vertonghen as a LB could potentially have worked because unlike Rose he can actually cross a ball, but it wasn't dependent on Rose playing in midfield. You can't say 'if this happened it would be the best tactical change' while ignoring that if Rose isn't rescued by his teammates, he possibly gives away a goal .. and then it's the worst tactical move of the season.
I think we both agree that Pochettino is forced to improvise due to a lack of investment, and was let down by our board in the summer (and in January when we lost Moussa). The lack of quality we have in midfield and at fullback is not his fault. That said, this doesn't mean that he isn't capable of making poor tactical changes, which he absolutely did today. You say he was forced to bring on Llorente but he had Lucas Moura on the bench, a player who has made a serious impact in the past as a substitute and whilst lacking in end product, is always a threat and keeps the ball on the ground.
Pochettino had a poor game tactically. The formation didn't work but he persisted with it throughout the 90, his substitutes aside from Lamela were wrong, and the decision to move a brainless left back in to central midfield (the position arguably requiring the most tactical intelligence) was bizarre. He got it wrong and had a bad day at the office, in the past he's made correct decisions which have affected the game well (Watford the most recent one which springs to mind, and United in the second half I feel his changes made a big difference) but today was not one of those days.
It is not the first time a midfielder lost the ball in midfield. Dembele has lost it many time, but that never hampered his ability to play there and continued making those runs. As you stated, Pochettino had to improvise due to lack of squad depth and he did that in order to accomadate Vertonghen out wide to ‘do something different to change the game.’ Good managers are dynamic and don’t just have one plan. Pochettino showed such dynamism today and it would have worked out great had kolshieny not read Vertonghen cross. Of course it would have also happened that such changes caused spurs to lose, but great managers knows how and when to take risk. This move was a risk, but at the end it didn’t have a positive or negative affect on the result. However, if there was more minutes added, it might have had a positive outcome for the reason that rose as the central midfielder caused Toirera to have a red card. In my own opinion, that was a positive outcome if there was more minutes added. I didn’t see it as a poor tactical game as he did what he had to do not to get a defeat after their team morale was at a very low after back to back defeat.