Smalling would walk into all the top 6 teams save Manchester City because of his limited ability on the ball. Do you think Lovren and Matip are better CBs? David Luiz?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Smalling has been absolutely vital to most of our big comebacks since SAF retired. I've seen players been made **** heroes and legends out of less.
Barely getting punished so what’s the deal? Shirt pulling is part of smart defending, Vidic used to do that a lot. Smalling isn’t stupid enough to give a foul away that is noticeable like what Mustafi did today against Kane, if VAR comes in of course he will start reducing it and be even more careful.
I thought he looks shaky in the first 20 min but as the match goes on he was solid, Young wasn’t helpful enough on the right side. Their goals came from long shot & set piece.
I thought he looks shaky in the first 20 min but as the match goes on he was solid, Young wasn’t helpful enough on the right side. Their goals came from long shot & set piece.
If everyone is fully fit, Matip is certainly not first choice. Not sure if Lovren is either.
I wouldn't say Luiz is a better defender but he's better on the ball than Smalling and I'm not convinced Sarri would drop Luiz for Smalling. Maybe he would.
I'm not necessarily saying Smalling wouldn't be first choice at another top six team. But with the exception of Arsenal I'm not sure.
Yeah every 3-2 win after going 2 goals behind invariably has a Smalling goal. Crystal Palace, twice against City are the ones that come to mind.
The only dead cert starter at the back for Liverpool is VVD. Matip has been their second best CB this season but Lovren has the second most play time after VVD. Lovren is a regular. That leaves Joe Gomez who is statisically Liverpool's worst performing CB according to whoscored and squawka. Gomez is still only 21 too. Being good on the ball is not the be all-end all in defending. All of our other CBs are better than Smalling on the ball and he's kept them on the bench more times than not and that trend is continuing under Ole. If anything, a VVD-Smalling partnership would probably be the meanest pairing in this league looking at their physical attributes and what they bring to their teams
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Smalling must be the only defender than concedes a penalty every game. Hypothetical penalties that is. VAR has already fecked him.
David Luiz is most certainly better than Smalling. Luiz got into Team of the Year at one stage. He might not be a leader in defence but every team would start him. His ball playing ability is second to none. And his actual defending gets underrated because of it.
Is Smalling better than Lovren and Matip? I'd say they're probably on par. Lovren got to a World Cup and Champions League final in the same year though. That would never be accomplished with Chris Smalling in defence.
Defenders in the top 6 I'd have over Smalling...
Laporte, Otamendi, Kompany, Stones
Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Sanchez
Van Dijk, Gomez
Sokratis, Koscielny (when fit)
Luiz, Rudiger, Christensen
All of these are either better players than Smalling, or have a much higher ceiling than Smalling.
Having said that, he would probably start for Arsenal.
Yes every time he gets close to an opposing player he wrestles. So next season every corner and free kick against us the opposing players are going to go down and force the Ref to use VAR.
Smalling was voted player of the year by his own teammates. Luiz is certainly not better than Smalling. Before Sarri's appointment David Luiz's Chelsea career was in serious trouble. Conte realized how shit he is and dropped him in season two. It's always been like that with him. Coaches come in and give him all the time because of his name but he always gets left on the sidelines.
It even happened at PSG when they smashed the transfer record for a CB on him at the time. He flopped and lost his place to Marquinhos and Thiago Silva, sending him running back to Chelsea. It won't take long for Sarri to drop him if he stays long enough, he's been a total liability since results started going bad for them. Adding Gomez to your list just shows your clear bias IMO. What has 21 year old Gomez achieved thus far? He hasn't even had a purple patch and is currently statistically the worst defender they have. Smalling has outperformed more than half the players you have on your list this season.
He's also played in more cup finals than most of them since that seems important to you. Christensen is the forgotten man at Chelsea since his own (then) manager Conte publicly accused him of being mentally weak. He only gets Europa league games these days. Kompany and Alderweireld are sicknotes, Stones, Otamendi and Laporte have zero grit combined and are far from leaders. None of the Arsenal players are worth a mention. I'll give you Sanchez.
He’s been at United for 8 years, and playing ~200 games. If memory serves right, not even ONCE in his career here he conceded penalty because of shirt pulling. While he definitely got advantage while doing it.
So i’m not sure of why people are still freaking out. That’s just silly fear.
So i’m not sure of why people are still freaking out. That’s just silly fear.
VAR will be Chris'es biggest enemy next season.
Don't these VAR people get tired, ever?
If he does that against psg its a certain penalty. Also cavani and mbappe might prove too good for him.
Hes usually been the reason we were behind in the first place some would say.
Not me, I dont have those fact to hand, but I dont rate him much either.
Apart that moment when he always gave away a penalty, he was very good yesterday, almost scored as well. His size and quickness is pushing opposition CF's to have to drop to the middle of the pitch if they want to touch the ball.
The Smalling bots are out in force again. This weeks incredible prowess, headed clearances. Let’s not take into consideration that he’s about 5-20 cm taller than the rest of the Southampton team and make it like he played against big foot instead and won every header 
He’s one of the best defenders in the league and would walk into top 6 sides teams but wasn’t good enough to go to the World Cup ahead his own team mate who played half the games he did and has injury breaks built in to his contract.
Give it a rest, if we buy a half decent defender there’s no reason for him to start, he’s not of the quality you require to win the league and that’s the reason we haven’t been even close to winning it since Fergie left. We’ve rebuilt our midfield and attack now just the defensive push is what we need to compete for the title!
He’s one of the best defenders in the league and would walk into top 6 sides teams but wasn’t good enough to go to the World Cup ahead his own team mate who played half the games he did and has injury breaks built in to his contract.
Give it a rest, if we buy a half decent defender there’s no reason for him to start, he’s not of the quality you require to win the league and that’s the reason we haven’t been even close to winning it since Fergie left. We’ve rebuilt our midfield and attack now just the defensive push is what we need to compete for the title!
Newcastle away under LVG
This is the frustration with Chris Smalling
Has been epic now for a month or so but can he sustain it?
We’ve been here before and usually there’s an absolute howler of a game around the corner
Has been epic now for a month or so but can he sustain it?
We’ve been here before and usually there’s an absolute howler of a game around the corner
Like they are for most CBs they come up against?
This thread is just tiring. Even when he plays well people can't help but talk about how next year is the year he is found out and moved on. We do need another CB to compete with him and Lindelof, given all the options below them are not good enough, but we are desperate for RB, RM, CM and they need looking at first.
IMO ref didn't a pen due to the way their player fell but with VAR that would have been reviewed and given a pen. It wasn't Modric on Messi level shirt pull but it definitely wasn't little bit, there was enough to give a pen and it definitely wasn't good defending because there was no need to hold him as smalling has enough pace to cover some space before Southampton player could take a shot.
The part you're missing is that if he knows VAR is in play, hes not going to do the exact same thing. As we saw when he was a boss against Chelsea, he did hold but not as much and thats why fouls werent given. Because they werent fouls.
Remember they didnt even take a break and go watch the VAR because it was a close one. It simply wasnt a foul so it wasnt even reviewed on the VAR by the ref. Thats how silly some of our "fans" are being. He's not in trouble when VAR comes in any more than defenders in Italy, which by the way are the ones we tend to rate as among the best in the world. Koulibaly etc. In Italy you defend by gabbing your opponents shirt. That isnt a foul unless its excessive and clearly a one way street.
A lot of the time when people say Smalling is grabbing the shirt and should give away a penalty, the opponent also has him grabbed. At that point its both of them doing it so you cant give a foul either way
That would require the ability to know the inner workings of Smalling's mind, which is impossible. So we can base the likely hood of it happening again on the fact that it has happened before. Of course he could change but at the moment we don't know that (sample size of one game isn't adequate and I am not saying he has brain farts every game) and its just hope and pray that he doesn't have brain farts like yesterday but not a certainty.
I don't understand our fans obsession with not pointing out faults in our players or their favourite players, there is nothing wrong with having faults but to completely ignore or claim he won't do it gain is just ignoring facts (hope he doesn't have moments like yesterday anymore but i am not going to ignore the fact that he's prone to those).
As for Chelsea game, the one on Rudigar wasn't a foul or a pull from Smalling but Rudigar backing into Smalling (unless i am mistaken) and there's no doubt he played well but making good tackles with VAR isn't the same as having brain farts like yesterday, which sadly he is prone to and yesterday with VAR that would have been a pen (to claim he won't do it with VAR isn't based on anything, i hope you're right but at the moment it isn't based on anything).
I am not sure how the Italian officiating translates to the premier league, not sure how you can draw a conclusion from that since some fouls in other leagues isn't a foul in our and vice versa.
So against Chelsea, he was great, with VAR and didnt do anything close to a foul (else it would have been VAR reviewed) but you dont know how he will do in a VAR match?
Yes we do. He did great and didnt give away a penalty with shirt pulling. So until the opposite happens, its absolutely stupid to talk about it.
It's just agenda posters. They can't help but throw punches in when discussing Smalling. He could have a great game and they'd still come in here and moan. They're not objective in the slightest, hardly surprising mind you.
I agree with your assessment by the way and agree with the ordering as well. Although RB is a catch twenty two position imo, as we have Dalot and Laird will come knocking on the door soon. Tricky to assess what we should be doing with that position, perhaps a short term plug? Young can get games as a stand in for RB/LB then.
The whole discussion on penalties and fouls that he could have committed is quite something. How agenda driven can you be when you spout that continually, considering he has given away one penalty due to shirt pulling? Also, people go on about how we need a defender like VVD with great composure who does not commit silly fouls. Does anyone else remember the red card he should have had or the penalty against City? How many similar penalties have Smalling given away? Quite few actually.
I think Smalling is the perfect example of "the grass is greener on the other side". He isn't a "sexy" footballer with great passing and composure. He looks slightly gangly and clumsy even. In the past, posters would even say that he was slow. Then there is talk about how his technique will cost us. Has it? If it has, has it cost us more than any other defender cost their teams?
What I will hold against him is his ball playing ability. His passing is a little slow, and just that little bit too safe, often passing slightly behind his target. There are better players in the world, but not that many that are better at just defending. He's actually a rather clever defender with good anticipation, and contrary to most would say, his composure is pretty darn good. As for his shirt grabbing - he gets away with it, he's ours, so I don't care. He's not much worse than Chiellini, for instance.
I think Smalling is the perfect example of "the grass is greener on the other side". He isn't a "sexy" footballer with great passing and composure. He looks slightly gangly and clumsy even. In the past, posters would even say that he was slow. Then there is talk about how his technique will cost us. Has it? If it has, has it cost us more than any other defender cost their teams?
What I will hold against him is his ball playing ability. His passing is a little slow, and just that little bit too safe, often passing slightly behind his target. There are better players in the world, but not that many that are better at just defending. He's actually a rather clever defender with good anticipation, and contrary to most would say, his composure is pretty darn good. As for his shirt grabbing - he gets away with it, he's ours, so I don't care. He's not much worse than Chiellini, for instance.
Shirt pulling is technically a foul irrespective of the degree, but your point about it being a one way street is absolutely right. You often see situations where both the defender and the attacker are grabbing each others shirts, in which case the referee should just let them get on with it. What I would say though is that grabbing an opponents shirt is a risk, and the risk is greater for the defender: the cost would be a penalty versus a harmless free kick the other way around.
Chris Smalling is clearly a defender who from time to time seeks an advantage by grabbing his opponents shirt, so he is taking a risk. However he is hardly unique in that regard - I'd hazard a guess that there would have been an incidence of shirt pulling at almost every corner in every game in the Premier League yesterday (and probably in every other top flight league as well). It's a method defenders use, and Chris Smalling isn't the only one who will need to adapt his game when VAR comes in.
On the wider topic of his performances, he is our best out and out defender. He doesn't have a great range of passing, and doesn't often carry the ball great distances - Lindelof is his superior in both of those regards - but he is very good in his defensive work. I personally had him down as our man of the match yesterday, and we just look more solid generally when he plays.
Agreed. Although despite "hating" Lindelof, I would say they were about equal because Lindelof made 7 headers taking care of the ball in the air
I would say I just about think Smalling got away with not giving a penalty against Redmond, partly because of what I was talking about above. I dont know where to look at the incident again, but from watching it at the time I think Redmond put his hand on Smalling as well to keep him pushed away and because of that I can see why he might not of got the pen, if what I think I saw at the time is true. But I do think we were fortunate to get away with that one, and Young's later on as well.
I thought Bertrand engineered the contact with Young, and the referee was right to not give a penalty. In the case of Smalling, I doubt any of the officials could see Smalling holding Redmond's shirt and a penalty would have been given otherwise.
Nah that one I'm sure Young grabbed and pulled. Dont know how you can engineer someone else putting their hands on you
Do people really think that besides him doing shirt pulling like its nothing, that media will let it go and not highlight it? He is not part of national team so there is no protection of any kind, they gonna have a field day, if he doesnt change his ways. Can already see it.
Edit: Oh and you can drop "hater" bullshit, just because people have issue with certain aspect of players game, doesnt mean they throwing darts whole day at their pinned picture on the wall. Same goes for Lukaku or any other player.
Edit: Oh and you can drop "hater" bullshit, just because people have issue with certain aspect of players game, doesnt mean they throwing darts whole day at their pinned picture on the wall. Same goes for Lukaku or any other player.
Maybe you should read the part where i said he doesn't have a brain fart every game then comment and as for not talking about Smalling having a brain fart with VAR then why are you claiming he might not do it? How can you know that? once again it's ok to have your favourites but it gets embarrassing when fans try to ignore players faults.
My point is based on Smalling having brain farts is based on many games and you're defending him by claiming "if he knows VAR is in play, hes not going to do the exact same thing." Which is just stupid and requires the inner workings of Smalling's mind, unless you have some info?.
Once again having a sample size of 1 game isn't adequate, it proves nothing.
I have made the part Bold which you need to pay attention to.
I have the evidence of 1 game with VAR where he was outstanding and didnt do the same thing.
You have the evidence of 0 games with VAR where he not been outstanding and did the exact same thing.
heading will be removed from the game soon because of concussion risk. Sell him
They'd prove too good for almost any cb in world football. Thats hardly a hypothetical stick to beat him with
I think that he starts only for Arsenal and us from all top 6 teams. And yes, Lovren and Luiz are better than him.
I throw a coin and got heads. It means that if I throw a coin multiple times it comes always heads.
Am I doing this right?
Why has Luiz been dropped (and why has he lost his starting berth) by every manager he's played under since his first Chelsea stint? He's unreliable, he still plays like a 21 year old CB. Lovren is a joke and even the most sensible Liverpool fans would secretly take Smalling over him. Smalliing has played more PL minutes than both of them since they signed to their clubs for a reason.
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You guys talk like Smalling has grabbed multiple shirts every game he has played since he arrived from Fulham. From those games only 1 game has the ref gave a penalty for grabbing shirt, and that was at a time were refs was supposed to come down hard on it. Only lasted a few weeks before people stopped being rewarded penalties for stuff like that again. Prior to this incident I don't think I ever heard about Smalling grabbing shirts being a problem. After this he has not conceded a penalty for it, but it has stuck with him as a tag. You might want to ask why certain players get labeled like Young and his diving, many others dive, why did people single him out? What about Vardy, Kane, Gerrard?
Anyways. When you talk about a sample pool you have to consider the facts. Fact is you are wrong to claim he grabs players shirts excessively every game he is playing, so there is the proof he can stop doing it. Because he doesn't do it at all instances. Again further proved by not having more penalties against us from those situation. I'd wager he don't even do it more than your average PL-defender, it is just about perception. Most of you only watch United games on tv where the replays shows certain moments each game. You think tv is going to show replay of every little shirt grab during a game?
This thread has gone bananas
Anyways. When you talk about a sample pool you have to consider the facts. Fact is you are wrong to claim he grabs players shirts excessively every game he is playing, so there is the proof he can stop doing it. Because he doesn't do it at all instances. Again further proved by not having more penalties against us from those situation. I'd wager he don't even do it more than your average PL-defender, it is just about perception. Most of you only watch United games on tv where the replays shows certain moments each game. You think tv is going to show replay of every little shirt grab during a game?
This thread has gone bananasSmallish has grabbed shirts in almost every game he has played. It's part of his game. Sometimes he grabs more conspicuously. The problem with the introduction of VAR is that everyone knows he does it. Yes of course so do many other players.
But Smalling has a reputation for holding.
That's why opposing players will go down at the slightest tug.
But Smalling has a reputation for holding.
That's why opposing players will go down at the slightest tug.
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