Peterson, Harris, etc....

So it's fine to be racist and misogynistic so long as you can back it up with academic rigour?

I wouldn't say that and didn't say that.

What I would say is that history presents a lot of rigorous philosophy(/psychology/science) proposed by people who also hold unpleasant social views. However with these big modern names you can get the same grade of shitty view without having to understand basic enquiry or all that wordy stuff and sillygisms. Just be your best lobster in 12 steps. The best of both worlds no doubt.

It seemed a pretty simple, disposable remark to be honest. Which perhaps demonstrates the appeal of these charlatans.
 
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Didn't Slavoj want Trump to win ?
 
Didn't Slavoj want Trump to win ?
Yes, but only because he hoped it would lead to the Democratic party moving to the left. He probably saw Hillary Clinton as, at best, continuation of the status quo. The election of Trump would serve as a shock to the system, and drive the Democrats to adopt more of Bernie's policies.
 
You're saying he's always been open about being a conservative when he says he isn't there. For wiw i think he's mostly harmless because he has absolutely nothing to say bar a load of fluff mixed with some quack theology and basic self help tips. He's no white supremacist
I didn’t say any of that? Genuinely confused as to where you thought I did...
 
Yes, but only because he hoped it would lead to the Democratic party moving to the left. He probably saw Hillary Clinton as, at best, continuation of the status quo. The election of Trump would serve as a shock to the system, and drive the Democrats to adopt more of Bernie's policies.

Yes because he felt a Clinton win would see the left continue to sleepwalk to oblivion and we’d all pretend everything is ok. Trump would make the left wake up

He wasn't the only one who felt that way. Clinton was a clear continuation of a broken status quo for all but the elites.
 
You seriously have no clue about Peterson at all, do you? His content on youtube has nothing to do with trolling. And as far as I know he's never claimed to be anything other than a conservative.

And you're still missing the point. "Cambridge" didn't make any choice. Some Cambridge academics wanted to collaborate with him but the idea was shut down by other academics in the faculty, and they did so in a really snivelling and disrespectful manner. In the sort of manner you'd expect from hysterical student union reps not from serious academics in Cambridge of all places.

I didn’t say any of that? Genuinely confused as to where you thought I did...

Again though.. I see no harm in JBP .Though no benefit either. He attracts certain 'types' with his free speech videos who are then able to co opt his other works (because it's without any substance and has a semantic blank spot into which anyone can inject whatever meaning they want) for their own interests. I don't think he is a racist or misogynist. Just a huckster who has hit the jackpot spouting mostly unverifiable nonsense
 
Again though.. I see no harm in JBP .Though no benefit either. He attracts certain 'types' with his free speech videos who are then able to co opt his other works (because it's without any substance and has a semantic blank spot into which anyone can inject whatever meaning they want) for their own interests. I don't think he is a racist or misogynist. Just a huckster who has hit the jackpot spouting mostly unverifiable nonsense

Death by boredom.
 
Again though.. I see no harm in JBP .Though no benefit either. He attracts certain 'types' with his free speech videos who are then able to co opt his other works (because it's without any substance and has a semantic blank spot into which anyone can inject whatever meaning they want) for their own interests. I don't think he is a racist or misogynist. Just a huckster who has hit the jackpot spouting mostly unverifiable nonsense

Sounds about right. There's plenty of money to be made out there and Peterson has found a model to do just that.
 
Again though.. I see no harm in JBP .Though no benefit either. He attracts certain 'types' with his free speech videos who are then able to co opt his other works (because it's without any substance and has a semantic blank spot into which anyone can inject whatever meaning they want) for their own interests. I don't think he is a racist or misogynist. Just a huckster who has hit the jackpot spouting mostly unverifiable nonsense
...Read the names mate :lol::lol::lol:
 
Well that went well.
To be fair (and I didn't necessarily agree with approaching the election in that way) it might still be too early to tell. Who knows if we would have the phenomenon of AOC if Clinton had won a straightforward victory.

All that said though, the way the Supreme Court and the judiciary is set up, I don't think it's a worthwhile strategy for Zizek to have taken. Trump's defining legacy, though he wants it to be the economy, will be the judiciary. Yes, it was a 5-4 conservative split before Scalia died and it's a 5-4 split now, but there's 2 conservatives born in the 60s instead of the 30s.... That could put big roadblocks in the way of any left wing executive/legislative movements, unless you have a president as politically brave as FDR (maybe we could see another Roberts 'switch in time to save 9' :lol: )
 
Well that went well.

Didn’t it? Bernie was not exactly in the mainstream when he was talking about medicare for all and a significant raising of the minimum wage, for example. Those aren’t considered fringe views anymore in the democratic party.
 
Didn’t it? Bernie was not exactly in the mainstream when he was talking about medicare for all and a significant raising of the minimum wage, for example. Those aren’t considered fringe views anymore in the democratic party.

For sure. Of course none of the above can be put down to Donald Trump winning the election. These issues were always going to become front and centre, thanks to the growing inequality in society. An inequality that was accelerated by Trump coming into power.
 
I disagree with you there Pogue. If Hillary had won the election I dont think the leftward pull on the Democratic party would have been anywhere near as strong. The midterms would have played out completely differently, highly questionable whether youd have AOC.
 
I disagree with you there Pogue. If Hillary had won the election I dont think the leftward pull on the Democratic party would have been anywhere near as strong. The midterms would have played out completely differently, highly questionable whether youd have AOC.

I know next to feck all about American politics (and this probably isn’t the thread to discuss it) but the whole Bernie thing got into full swing long before Trump became president. Sanders was a long way to the left of similar candidates from the past (I think?) so I see no reason that swing to the left would die on its arse just because Clinton ended up winning the election.

There’s been an obvious trend to populist extremes at the left and right all over the world which wasn’t going to grind to a hault if Trump didn’t win. Basically I can’t accept that the world is a better place now that Trump is POTUS. That was always going to be the shittest outcome.
 
I know next to feck all about American politics (and this probably isn’t the thread to discuss it) but the whole Bernie thing got into full swing long before Trump became president. Sanders was a long way to the left of similar candidates from the past (I think?) so I see no reason that swing to the left would die on its arse just because Clinton ended up winning the election.

There’s been an obvious trend to populist extremes at the left and right all over the world which wasn’t going to grind to a hault if Trump didn’t win. Basically I can’t accept that the world is a better place now that Trump is POTUS. That was always going to be the shittest outcome.
True, good points.

Its all unknowable anyway.
 
I know next to feck all about American politics (and this probably isn’t the thread to discuss it) but the whole Bernie thing got into full swing long before Trump became president. Sanders was a long way to the left of similar candidates from the past (I think?) so I see no reason that swing to the left would die on its arse just because Clinton ended up winning the election.

There’s been an obvious trend to populist extremes at the left and right all over the world which wasn’t going to grind to a hault if Trump didn’t win. Basically I can’t accept that the world is a better place now that Trump is POTUS. That was always going to be the shittest outcome.
It might not have died on its arse. But it might not have got the momentum it did. That’s the point we’re making. There’s room for a movement to be “less” without it having to be “nothing.”

And I don’t think even Zizek has said the world is a better place with Trump. His point as I understand it was that it would mobilize the left in the long run in a way a Clinton presidency wouldn’t.
 
I'm not a big fan of Zizek's take on Trump but he is right that the left has got a boost primarily because of just how awful Trump is.
 
I'm not a big fan of Zizek's take on Trump but he is right that the left has got a boost primarily because of just how awful Trump is.
Yeah he still seem to view the neoliberal side of politics as the main opponent which I don't think is the case anymore, the nationalistic growing far right is just as threading. In fact its becoming clear that see both sides are becoming quite comfortable with each other.

For Leninist Zizek should know better, the answer is simply -"Both are worse''
 
I'm not a big fan of Zizek's take on Trump but he is right that the left has got a boost primarily because of just how awful Trump is.
Still seems like a dangerous calculation to me, since a) the boost for the (far) right has probably been even bigger, with deadly consequences, and b) it is yet unknown what "the left" will or will not be able to do as a result. But that discussion has already been held a hundred times on here, in all variations.
 
I know next to feck all about American politics (and this probably isn’t the thread to discuss it) but the whole Bernie thing got into full swing long before Trump became president. Sanders was a long way to the left of similar candidates from the past (I think?) so I see no reason that swing to the left would die on its arse just because Clinton ended up winning the election.

There’s been an obvious trend to populist extremes at the left and right all over the world which wasn’t going to grind to a hault if Trump didn’t win. Basically I can’t accept that the world is a better place now that Trump is POTUS. That was always going to be the shittest outcome.

It isnt a trend. It is just that politicians will do anything and everything to avoid addressing the actual problems with our system.
 
That was a dick move.

There’s a very good piece about Info Wars fuelled harrasment of Sandy Hook parents on a recent episode of This American Life, produced by Jon Ronson. You could see how something like this might happen.

Yeah I listened to that the other day and it was excellent. Lenny Pozner's determination to take on the trolls was absolutely remarkable but so infuriating that he even needed to. Found it interesting that some of the truthers he exposed turned out to be violent criminals themselves.
 
Yeah I listened to that the other day and it was excellent. Lenny Pozner's determination to take on the trolls was absolutely remarkable but so infuriating that he even needed to. Found it interesting that some of the truthers he exposed turned out to be violent criminals themselves.

Such a shitty bunch of people. An older brother of a good friend of mine (who’s from Belfast, like you?) has got himself balls deep in that whole conspiracy world online. So much so that he’s fallen out with all his family. I’ve a feeling we’ll see it as a DSM diagnosis at some point in the next few years.
 
Why anybody goes on that utter scum's show is beyond me. If Rogan wants to associate himself with guys like that well that says a lot about him.

To be fair, Jon Ronson - who’s incredibly smart and not remotely right wing - has always had a soft spot for Alex Jones too (and vice versa). So he’s obviously fairly charming and thoughtful when the cameras aren’t rolling. Although I think that’s changed now he’s realised he was a violent bully in his younger years.