Strongest revisionism of the last decade?

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Staff
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
28,913
Location
Inside right
One that has grown exponentially: Suarez's season at Liverpool when they almost won the league was all down to him - Sturridge and Sterling's contributions being erased from history.

C.Ronaldo and Portugal's European Championship win: he played 7mins of the final. The revision is he had a major role in the victory. Used particularly as a one-up over 'Messi acolytes' but steadily becoming legion.

Sterling is having his first proper season: No, he's been a top tier talent for nigh on half a decade now even if his finishing has gone awry at times during the period.

Yours?
 
Fortitude said:
One that has grown exponentially: Suarez's season at Liverpool when they almost won the league was all down to him - Sturridge and Sterling's contributions being erased from history.

C.Ronaldo and Portugal's European Championship win: he played 7mins of the final. The revision is he had a major role in the victory. Used particularly as a one-up over 'Messi acolytes' but steadily becoming legion.

Sterling is having his first proper season: No, he's been a top tier talent for nigh on half a decade now even if his finishing has gone awry at times during the period.

Yours?
Click to expand...
EDIT: My bad. I misread earlier. Of course Sterling has been class for a long time. For the Ronaldo one, he had a major role in them getting there. But the final itself of course not. For me, the Suarez one is the biggest revisionism. On top of what you said, he stat padded against relegation teams.
 
Last edited:
See some people downplaying De Gea.. It's truly bizarre.
 
Barcelona were that conquering, all time great dominant team before Pep took over in 2008. The reality is they finished 3rd the season before, were eliminated by Man Utd from CL in the semifinal after a lackluster performance and got spanked in quite a few league games (9 losses and they only got 67 points). They were in dire need of change.
 
Fortitude said:
One that has grown exponentially: Suarez's season at Liverpool when they almost won the league was all down to him - Sturridge and Sterling's contributions being erased from history.
Click to expand...

Sterling impressed in large part due to being given so much space by Suarez, and was set up excellently by him as well. Sturridge held his own and played really well even when Suarez was out.

I actually think it's Hendo's contributions most people are forgetting from that season. He was immense, and his pressing game worked perfectly in tandem with Suarez.

In general though I think it's correct to contribute A LOT of our good play from that season due to Suarez. We played really well due to making him the main man, which in turn led to great team moral, which allowed youngsters like Sterling and Flanagan (lol) to flourish in an enviroment without pressure.
 
Fortitude said:
One that has grown exponentially: Suarez's season at Liverpool when they almost won the league was all down to him - Sturridge and Sterling's contributions being erased from history.

C.Ronaldo and Portugal's European Championship win: he played 7mins of the final. The revision is he had a major role in the victory. Used particularly as a one-up over 'Messi acolytes' but steadily becoming legion.

Sterling is having his first proper season: No, he's been a top tier talent for nigh on half a decade now even if his finishing has gone awry at times during the period.

Yours?
Click to expand...

Youre being an idiot about Ronaldo.

Hes the reason they were in the final. Hes the reason that team played so well after years of working with them.

The players themselves said it. Was due to him.

Also everyone had the same opinion back then so not sure what revisionism is happening here.

The only revisionism is that Messi hasn't been a complete bottler on the international stage
 
Sarni said:
Barcelona were that conquering, all time great dominant team before Pep took over in 2008. The reality is they finished 3rd the season before, were eliminated by Man Utd from CL in the semifinal after a lackluster performance and got spanked in quite a few league games (9 losses and they only got 67 points). They were in dire need of change.
Click to expand...

This.

Complete revisionism that doesn't jive with the narrative at the time.

Exhibit A: An article from Sid Lowe in 2008. Plainly showing the level of Barcelona's state at the time.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/may/08/barcelona.realmadrid
 
Prometheus said:
I think he's talking about the final itself, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

What a lot of people mean when they talk about ronaldos influence is not him cheerleading but how he inspired that team by rubbing his mentality on them.

Countless times to get to that final he pushed them out. Now it was their turn. The players themselves said this. All of Portugal believes this but no others know more.

Anyway this is a disagreement of opinion not revisionism.
 
Messi vs Ronaldo thread in 3...2...1


Anyway. For me it’s perhaps the overrating of Ancelotti’s Milan team. Yes they won two CL’s but in another they bottled the final in ridiculous fashion against a poor Liverpool team, in another they threw away a decent semi final lead against Deportivo.

Their domestic success was really underwhelming as well. For a side that no doubt had legends in pretty much every position I see it not as a contender for one of the best teams ever, but as a side that didn’t live up to the hype or achieve quite as much as it should’ve done.
 
Prometheus said:
I think he's talking about the final itself, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...
Ronaldo obviously didn't have much of an influence in the final, I don't think anyone claims he did though. He did have a huge influence in Portugal winning the competition, which some try to deny.
 
Prometheus said:
I think he's talking about the final itself, if I'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

No one says Ronaldo is the reason Portugal one in the final. That was down to Eder. I thought that was pretty obvious to everyone.

Fans will give legends like Roy Keane all the respect they need in a tournament performance but won't give it to Ronaldo :confused:
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
No one says Ronaldo is the reason Portugal one in the final. That was down to Eder. I thought that was pretty obvious to everyone.

Fans will give legends like Roy Keane all the respect they need in a tournament performance but won't give it to Ronaldo :confused:
Click to expand...

No one credits Keane for any of what we did in the final. He obviously had a huge part in getting us there, but no nonsense about "inspiring from the sidelines"
 
"Mourinho's stint at Real Madrid was a success". 1 title out of 6 (considering Liga nad UCL). After he left, they win 4 out of 6.

And then people divert to -> "he's responsible for their proceeding success" funny that no other manager gets this treatment.

or -> "He was competing against the best team ever" When he arrived in 2011 was the last year Barcelona looked unbeatable.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
Fans will give legends like Roy Keane all the respect they need in a tournament performance but won't give it to Ronaldo :confused:
Click to expand...

not a single time in my whole life I heard anyone saying our win against Bayern in that final was due to Scholes or Keane.
 
Paul Scholes has always been a Xavi/Pirloesque deep lying playmaker who was wasted by England.

In reality it wasn’t until several years after he retired from international that he began to play that role.
 
RochaRoja said:
Sterling was one of the Premier League’s top attackers as a teenager in 2013-14. I’m assuming that’s what he’s getting at.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. I misread it. I thought he was saying this is his first first proper season. That was the revisionism. Of course Sterling has been class for a long time.
 
Bole Top said:
not a single time in my whole life I heard anyone saying our win against Bayern in that final was due to Scholes or Keane.
Click to expand...
Takes more than winning the final to win a tournament. You actually have to get there as well, which Ronaldo had played an absolutely massive part in.
 
Sarni said:
Takes more than winning the final to win a tournament. You actually have to get there as well, which Ronaldo had played an absolutely massive part in.
Click to expand...

of course. but we aren't talking about getting there, just the final itself.
 
General overrating of retired players since everyone only remembers the highlights of their careers.
 
Bole Top said:
of course. but we aren't talking about getting there, just the final itself.
Click to expand...

Would that not be Mandela effect?

People think that Ronaldo played the final but in fact Ronaldo was on the touchline motivating his team mates like a bloody maniac.
 
Scholes was wasted by England. He scored 1 goal in 3 years for England and only played left midfield for about 8 games so that isn’t a valid excuse.
 
shaky said:
Ronaldo obviously didn't have much of an influence in the final, I don't think anyone claims he did though. He did have a huge influence in Portugal winning the competition, which some try to deny.
Click to expand...
This is the part I wasn't aware of. Not sure if I saw something like that in the Messi/Ronaldo thread, but that thread is full crackpot arguments that I never register as real people's views personally.
 
Ramos being an excellent defender.

I'm sure that as late as 2013, no one thought that Ramos was the best CB in the world. Even with 1 WC and 2 Euros and the odd La Liga here and there.
 
Prometheus said:
This is the part I wasn't aware of. Not sure if I saw something like that in the Messi/Ronaldo thread, but that thread is full crackpot arguments that I never register as real people's views personally.
Click to expand...

Crstiano not playing in the final is a pretty significant caveat in the Messi v Ronaldo debate tbh. Had they lost without him would it have made him a lesser player? If Higuaín hadn’t missed sitters in the finals Messi dragged Argentina to would that make him a better player?
 
The Glazers are actually good owners who have (re)invested enough money into the club.

Carefully avoiding that period between 2009-2013. Our biggest signing was a relative bargain in RvP. It cost us titles in SAFs last years and contributed to the post-SAF meltdown.
 
That despite fergie cruising the league, he apparently left a super weak squad.
 
MJJ said:
Scholes being our best player through out his career and close to xavi.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's an odd one. People forget that he was initially dropped by Fergie when Veron was bought and I believe that was the only time he also sulked in his career. Becks, Giggs and Keane were better than him before 2001. Scholes' best period for us were 2002-4 stretch and 06-09
 
RochaRoja said:
Crstiano not playing in the final is a pretty significant caveat in the Messi v Ronaldo debate tbh. Had they lost without him would it have made him a lesser player? If Higuaín hadn’t missed sitters in the finals Messi dragged Argentina to would that make him a better player?
Click to expand...

It's only significant for Messi because its a lack of trophies he has one outside his comfort zone. All Portugal Euro trophy is is another trophy in another team that Ronaldo one and Messi didn't.

So yes - Higuain scoring that penalty would have made a big difference.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yeah that's an odd one. People forget that he was initially dropped by Fergie when Veron was bought and I believe that was the only time he also sulked in his career. Becks, Giggs and Keane were better than him before 2001. Scholes' best period for us were 2002-4 stretch and 06-09
Click to expand...

Even butt, yeah I would say he really shone during 06 09 but that was when our midfield was so weak. He was an excellent player just not as consistently good as he is made out to be.
 
RochaRoja said:
Crstiano not playing in the final is a pretty significant caveat in the Messi v Ronaldo debate tbh. Had they lost without him would it have made him a lesser player? If Higuaín hadn’t missed sitters in the finals Messi dragged Argentina to would that make him a better player?
Click to expand...

Dragged them to despite not scoring a single goal in that world cup knock out rounds.

Here is another one for this thread, that messi not Argentina defense and mascherano were responsible for them getting to the world cup final.
 
Last edited:
RochaRoja said:
Crstiano not playing in the final is a pretty significant caveat in the Messi v Ronaldo debate tbh. Had they lost without him would it have made him a lesser player? If Higuaín hadn’t missed sitters in the finals Messi dragged Argentina to would that make him a better player?
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn't. But if they lost with him I could see someone making the argument that a player of his calibre should make the difference at the biggest match of his life! The Higuain argument is pretty strange because players miss chances - at the end I'd expect Messi to come out on top and offset against any wild misses especially when his fellow players at the back were doing an amazing job to shutout the opposition - not only at the world cup, but at the other two finals as well. What do you think the odds would be for Messi fail to score at over 6 hours of finals? One goal would have been enough to win in any of the finals!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.