Scott McTominay vs Declan Rice

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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I haven't seen much of Rice this season. I've seen about 3 West Ham games and McTominay has properly appeared as much under Ole.

I am not trying to say our Scott is better than Rice, but I'm curious to know by those who have seen Declan Rice more than I have why he should be a a target (reportedly). He is very good at what he does in defensive midfield, breaking up play and shows a maturity in how he goes about himself on the pitch. Thing is, McTominay does this too. His performance vs PSG and Wolves were very, very good.

Both players are less inspiring going forward, but who is better in their specialist role? And if the majority say it's Rice then is he worth the £50 odd million when you have a comparable player in McTominay, who has had his faith shown in him by Jose and Ole?
 
Rice is quite a few years younger than McTominay isn't he?

I've not seen that much of him other than the England game where people just pretended he played really well, but to be playing PL football regularly at that age you need to at least have some decent potential and ability.

Not really a dig at Mctominay but I think it's only the last couple of months he's started looking like a decent player.
 
I said the same in the newbs. I just don’t see the point in spending a big fee on Rice with McTominay around. Rice is unproven at this point, and I would hope we look for a more astute passer of the ball who can really dictate play.
 
I have no idea why we are targeting Rice. We should look for midfielder who can control the games and being the deepest midfielder in three midfield, like Thiago, Verrarti, Allan, Rodri, etc, they are the type of midfielder we need to target. If we buy Rice, we need Kroos type as I'm not convinced by Pogba putting 7/10 every week playing that role.
 
Rice isn't worth £50 mil. That would be buying purely for the potential. £50 mil I'd expect someone like Veratti, proven quality.
 
Putting aside the two year age gap, I doubt Rice would be sitting on the bench while Callum McGregor, John McGinn and Stuart Armstrong are starting Euro qualifiers if he were Scottish.
 
Rice is far better than he is getting credit on here for due to one or two dodgy games lately. Whether he can reach his potential and be consistent is another thing.

I see Rice as being captain material. A midfield John Terry eventually. Still a long way to go but he looks destined for the very top when he's on form.

McTominay looks like a Fletcher/Herrera clone. To come into the team for certain games to be that tenacious octopus and make life a nightmare for superior ball possession teams like Barca, City.
 
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VP89 said:
I haven't seen much of Rice this season. I've seen about 3 West Ham games and McTominay has properly appeared as much under Ole.

I am not trying to say our Scott is better than Rice, but I'm curious to know by those who have seen Declan Rice more than I have why he should be a a target (reportedly). He is very good at what he does in defensive midfield, breaking up play and shows a maturity in how he goes about himself on the pitch. Thing is, McTominay does this too. His performance vs PSG and Wolves were very, very good.

Both players are less inspiring going forward, but who is better in their specialist role? And if the majority say it's Rice then is he worth the £50 odd million when you have a comparable player in McTominay, who has had his faith shown in him by Jose and Ole?
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That isnt McTominay's specialist role and no he hasn't been very good sitting in front of the defense. Ole has said they believe he is best in a more offensive role like against Wolves.

Rice is a better ball winner, senses danger around him better and is a good passer with both feet. Better than we've seen from McTominay.

McTominay has done well for a young player coming in with difficult circumstances, but he has lots of room for improvement in a holding role especially defensively. He has shown that he has something and can compete for a place in the team but he absolutely hasnt shown that he's a good shield in front of the defense
 
McTominay did well against Wolves. But let’s not kid ourselves. His first train of throught is always to look sidewards and back. That’s not what a Manchester United midfield should be doing.
 
deafepl said:
I have no idea why we are targeting Rice. We should look for midfielder who can control the games and being the deepest midfielder in three midfield, like Thiago, Verrarti, Allan, Rodri, etc, they are the type of midfielder we need to target. If we buy Rice, we need Kroos type as I'm not convinced by Pogba putting 7/10 every week playing that role.
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Verratti, Allan and Thiago do not play as deepest midfielders and Allan is not the type to control games.
 
If you are another club, given the choice between signing Rice and McTominay, you choose Rice unless the price difference is huge.

If you are Manchester United, it would be crazy to sign Rice. He has a 5 year deal and West Ham have a one year option on top of that. If they don't get a suitable offer this summer, they can wait for several years until it arrives.

50% of transfers fail (Detailed study in Pay As You Play book by Paul Tomkins). The reasons why they fail vary so much. Sometimes the reason is obvious and the club took the risk anyway. Sometimes it is something that you'd never have predicted.

As for which is the better player right now, one starts almost every game, while the other gets benched after the PSG game, having spent the first half of the season making 3 starts, 2 of which came as a central defender in a back 3. Any comparison beyond the obvious that they are both highly promising young players, is largely a waste of time, because of their respective playing times.
 
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I brought this up yesterday and am taking credit for this thread.

You're welcome.
 
deafepl said:
I have no idea why we are targeting Rice. We should look for midfielder who can control the games and being the deepest midfielder in three midfield, like Thiago, Verrarti, Allan, Rodri, etc, they are the type of midfielder we need to target. If we buy Rice, we need Kroos type as I'm not convinced by Pogba putting 7/10 every week playing that role.
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I'm not sure about deepest, but yes i do agree that we should be looking at technically gifted midfielders who can run football matches.
 
Bojan11 said:
McTominay did well against Wolves. But let’s not kid ourselves. His first train of throught is always to look sidewards and back. That’s not what a Manchester United midfield should be doing.
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So Rice is exceptional on the ball then?
 
Green_Red said:
Rice isn't worth £50 mil. That would be buying purely for the potential. £50 mil I'd expect someone like Veratti, proven quality.
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Veratti is available at 50 millions? Now I have heard it all for sure. :lol:
100 millions and PSG might listen. They clearly labelled him as not for sale.
 
If McTominay was English, he would have already been declared next Busquets.
 
Bojan11 said:
Did I say anything about Rice? I haven’t watched him enough. All I was saying McTominay would never make it here if he wants to play like Cleverley.
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Then who is 'kidding themselves'?
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Verratti, Allan and Thiago do not play as deepest midfielders and Allan is not the type to control games.
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They are, always deep when collecting balls off the CB and look to dictate the play and controlling the tempo of the games, That's Fred playing that role couple of few days ago even though he's not true DM like Kante, Casemiro, etc. You may call it DLP as well, they are suited to the possession-based.

For having Kante, Rice, or Camemiro, etc in teams, require Kroos type/holding midfielder, who will control the games but they don't normally have a high defensive work rate and not the deepest midfielder. Pogba has played that role for France lot.
 
I love the way England fans pretended Rice played great for them and that he’s a top talent. The truth hurts and all but he didn’t and he’s not. I would be gutted if we bought him. Utter waste of our resources that should be utilised on much better players. It’s cool though, some are just pretending he’s amazing lately, I get that.
 
Yet when I said Scott could become a player in the mould of Rice I was laughed at. Now all of a sudden he is rated. People really didn’t want to give the lad a chance.
 
haram said:
Yet when I said Scott could become a player in the mould of Rice I was laughed at. Now all of a sudden he is rated. People really didn’t want to give the lad a chance.
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That might be because Rice doesn't really have a mould either?
 
Jibbs said:
If McTominay was English, he would have already been declared next Busquets.
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He is/was English. He didn't declare for Scotland until after he started making appearances for United, and no one was calling him that.
 
haram said:
You dont look at Rice and think he is a certain type of player?
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No? Last year he was a shit centre back, this year he is a promising DM. I'm not sure what I can read into that really other than he has a chance of becoming a good player...somewhere.
 
McTominay isn't a DM at all right now so not really comparable.

Honestly Though idI like to see Scott continue to do well we must sign players to keep him out of the first xi if we are to be a top squad.

Not saying that is Rice as I've only watched him maybe 5 times but he does seem a lot better than both Scott and Matic at CDM.
 
laughtersassassin said:
McTominay isn't a DM at all right now so not really comparable.

Honestly Though idI like to see Scott continue to do well we must sign players to keep him out of the first xi if we are to be a top squad.

Not saying that is Rice as I've only watched him maybe 5 times but he does seem a lot better than both Scott and Matic at CDM.
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Long way to go before he's Matic at his best but what I believe is that, he's better than Dier.

McT isn't a DM. Not sure what his best position is but all I know he was one of only 3 players who really stepped up against Wolves.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Long way to go before he's Matic at his best but what I believe is that, he's better than Dier.

McT isn't a DM. Not sure what his best position is but all I know he was one of only 3 players who really stepped up against Wolves.
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Matic is already no longer the player he was mate. Our fans refuse to identify decline.

Matic was once very very good. Matic now has already been exposed for his lack of mobility a million times.

So many fans called it before he signed. He was always going to be a player that aged terribly. The signs where there. His legs where going before he signed for us.

Once that happens it's a slippery slope to mediocrity which is where he has unfortunately found himself.

So I'm not saying he is better than Matic at his best but purely due to his ability to move he is in my mid without a doubt better than OUR Matic.
 
TwoSheds said:
No? Last year he was a shit centre back, this year he is a promising DM. I'm not sure what I can read into that really other than he has a chance of becoming a good player...somewhere.
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Ok so for one he is a DM. He is a combative ball winner. So that's two things you can already look at. Then you look at his height and then consider he has a simple game on the ball. You can see the comparisons between him and Scott. You can say Scott isn't a DM but he has similar qualities. That's why I said he could be a player in the same mould as Rice.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Matic is already no longer the player he was mate. Our fans refuse to identify decline.

Matic was once very very good. Matic now has already been exposed for his lack of mobility a million times.

So many fans called it before he signed. He was always going to be a player that aged terribly. The signs where there. His legs where going before he signed for us.

Once that happens it's a slippery slope to mediocrity which is where he has unfortunately found himself.

So I'm not saying he is better than Matic at his best but purely due to his ability to move he is in my mid without a doubt better than OUR Matic.
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That's what I implied but can he get to a Matic at his peak?

I'd be willing to sign him and develop him. He's only going to get better than than at that cess pit of West Ham
 
Inigo Montoya said:
That's what I implied but can he get to a Matic at his peak?

I'd be willing to sign him and develop him. He's only going to get better than than at that cess pit of West Ham
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Possibly but I haven't seen enough to form a solid judgement. Though I'm sure our scouts have or hope they have anyway.
 
We need a pass master in our midfield. We have the grafters like Matic, McTominay and Fred already. We have a creative midfielder in Pogba. Pereira is a mix of the above two. What is missing is an elite midfielder to control the tempo of the game. A player like Veratti, Kroos, Arthur to connect the defense and attack. Someone like Xabi Alonso would be great. That's why I want us to get Neves.

Declan Rice would be a slightly better version of what we have now. But that's not what we should be looking for.
 
Rice is a very solid player but in my opinion it's clear he looks like a defender playing in midfield. If we want someone to be dictating the game from deep then I don't think he is our man. He's great defensively, very strong, good in the air and always in the right position but just plays it simple when on the ball - that last sentence could be used to describe McTominay IMO so this isn't the worst comparison thread.
 
DanNistelrooy said:
Rice is a very solid player but in my opinion it's clear he looks like a defender playing in midfield. If we want someone to be dictating the game from deep then I don't think he is our man. He's great defensively, very strong, good in the air and always in the right position but just plays it simple when on the ball - that last sentence could be used to describe McTominay IMO so this isn't the worst comparison thread.
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He's so young and talented, it's not clear at all what he could develop into.
 
Jibbs said:
If McTominay was English, he would have already been declared next Busquets.
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He is English. He just plays for Scotland because Southgate didn’t put enough effort into convincing him to play for England. Compare that to how he pursued Rice. Doesn’t seem like England thought they were losing a super talent.
 
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