Do we want to lose to City?

[DAV771]

I consider it arrogant to think my opinion, as someone who is yet to visit Old Trafford, holds the same weight as the opinion of someone who is more invested in the history of the club, rivalries included.

That's just my viewpoint though. I don't care as much about the rivalry. But it's pretty important. Our greatest manager thought it was. The conflicted nature of supporters closer to the action is a reflection of that, and I won't dismiss it just because I can't relate.

And neither should you have to. The beauty of an opinion is that anyone can have one any they can all hold equal weight, depending on how you view them. I respect your view but I don't buy that the opinion of fans born in Manchester have a greater value purely based on their location/how often they travel to games. For many it's just not financially viable to travel to OT multiple times a season but that doesn't make them 'lesser' fans.

I still remember watching my dad (a Leeds fan who's been to Elland Road about 3 times in his life) crying like a baby when they were relegated when I was about 14. Passion for the club has nothing to do with where you are, it's about yourself and how YOU feel attached to the club.

I wouldn't let anyone dictate how valuable my opinion is just because they live closer to the stadium than I do. I understand local fans saying that you don't understand the rivalry as you're not directly experiencing it every day but to discount your own opinion just because some people live closer than you do seems bizarre to me.

 

[Cal?]

City could well do the domestic treble. Why are people more ok with that than Liverpool winning the league?

But more importantly as a supporter of this club, why would you want us to lose in a derby game? And why does Liverpool not winning the title mean more to you than us getting a top 4 spot? It's been 28 years, they were bound to do it at some point.

The idea that us getting top 4 will paper over the cracks is also odd to me. I think Ole knows full well how far of we are no matter what happens in this game. He has been very honest about that. So why not get top 4 and then build from there? Why do people think if we finish outside the top 4, we will magically then be rebuilt into a force to be reckoned with?

Because City are miles behind in the grand scheme of things, also any City trophy can be brushed off as, Abu Dhabi bought it.

I want us to lose this game to deny Liverpool the title, because 19 is dangerously close to 20 and a CL place isn’t that important.

It’s not bound to happen, what gives you that idea?

Top 4 is nice, and if we get it after losing tonight I’ll be happy. But I’ll not take solace in getting to play in the CL when the Scousers rub their title into our face.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I still expect Wolves to get a draw at Anfield.

Genuine question, why do you believe this? Liverpool have W15 D2 at home and scored 48 goals. Granted, Wolves away form is not as bad as some make out but they have nothing to play for and I think they will be overwhelmed. Do you think Liverpool will crumble because of how much it means to them?

 

[Cal?]

That still doesn't mean you're less of a United fan or a bad supporter if you'd want United to win today. Arguments like "you're not a United fan if you want to win tonight", especially made by foreigners, are just stupid ones.

That has nothing to do with being foreign or not. Some foreigners get the rivalry and some locals don’t.

 

[Hoof the ball]

What if.......

United beat City, presumably handing Liverpool the title, only for King Rafa, beloved and worshipped god of RAWK, to be the one to dismantle Liverpool's title charge?

Feck me, Rafa would go from deity to peasant in a split second.

 

[Bulldog United]

The reality is a lot of the people who are hoping City win tonight to deny Liverpool the title will be moaning in the summer when the club doesn't invest enough in new players.

The Champions League generates a huge amount of money, and us failing to qualify for it will have a negative impact on Ole's transfer budget.
The thought of Liverpool winning the title makes me sick, but I can't cheer for an outcome that will handicap us to some degree next season.

Also Liverpool have to play Wolves on the final game of the season. If they are top of the league, they will be under enormous pressure to finish the job against a club who have performed exceptionally this season against the so-called bigger sides. Liverpool are more than capable of still feckin' this up on their own.

 

[Sarni]

I don't really care that much about top 4, we are clearly not good enough to compete against European elite even if we managed to pull off Paris miracle.

I do however care about Liverpool not winning the title. Easy choice.

 

[Sarni]

What if.......

United beat City, presumably handing Liverpool the title, only for King Rafa, beloved and worshipped god of RAWK, to be the one to dismantle Liverpool's title charge?

Feck me, Rafa would go from deity to peasant in a split second.

Zero chance of that happening. Liverpool will win every game between now and the end of season.

 

[RogByrne]

I still see us getting top 4 even if we lose tonight, if we do get a result I can see Newcastle getting a result against Liverpool sorting that problem out.

From our point of view the big one is Sunday against Chelsea, get 3 point and I can see Arsenal dropping points away to Wolves, Leicester and Burnley and Chelsea dropping point away to Leicester on the last day of the season.

Prediction:
1 City 98
2 Liverpool 95
3 Spurs 79
4 United 73
5 Arsenal 71
6 Chelsea 71

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I consider it arrogant to think my opinion, as someone who is yet to visit Old Trafford, holds the same weight as the opinion of someone who is more invested in the history of the club, rivalries included.

That's just my viewpoint though. I don't care as much about the rivalry. But it's pretty important. Our greatest manager thought it was. The conflicted nature of supporters closer to the action is a reflection of that, and I won't dismiss it just because I can't relate.

And neither should you have to. The beauty of an opinion is that anyone can have one any they can all hold equal weight, depending on how you view them. I respect your view but I don't buy that the opinion of fans born in Manchester have a greater value purely based on their location/how often they travel to games. For many it's just not financially viable to travel to OT multiple times a season but that doesn't make them 'lesser' fans.

I still remember watching my dad (a Leeds fan who's been to Elland Road about 3 times in his life) crying like a baby when they were relegated when I was about 14. Passion for the club has nothing to do with where you are, it's about yourself and how YOU feel attached to the club.

I wouldn't let anyone dictate how valuable my opinion is just because they live closer to the stadium than I do. I understand local fans saying that you don't understand the rivalry as you're not directly experiencing it every day but to discount your own opinion just because some people live closer than you do seems bizarre to me.

This is a slightly strange one in that you'd think the people who live in Manchester would find a City league title the more painful of the two options. Because they're much more likely to have friends/family/colleagues rubbing it in their face. My own anti-Liverpool bias is probably heightened by the fact I don't live in Manchester. There's hardly any City fans my age in Dublin but fecking loads of Liverpool fans. And it's bragging rights with these chumps that matters most to me. The PL title has been just out of their reach forever. Will be glorious to see them denied one more time. Another City title doesn't bother me at all. They're nowhere near our haul of 20 titles and I don't have any friends likely to rub my noses in it if they finish ahead of Liverpool.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Zero chance of that happening. Liverpool will win every game between now and the end of season.

I know, I know, but indulge me..... the absolute irony of it!!!!

 

[The Brown Bull]

That open letter thingy is so typical of them, pathetic and untrue in fact.
I remember 95 well.They certainly did not roar their team to victory regardless of the fact that it might help us.Liverpool went through the motions barely putting a tackle in and Blackburn took an early lead which would guarantee them the title .
Meanwhile at Upton Park West Ham played as if they were in line to win the title putting in a ferocious shift and they took the lead which they held till half time.
Despite being faced with an apparent hopeless cause United upped their game in the 2nd half and equalized .They then laid siege to the Hammers goal but couldn’t find a winner.
Almost despite themselves Liverpool scored 2 late goals to beat Blackburn much to the dismay of many koppites who wore Pool & Blackburn colours.
It was a bottle job by Blackburn who remain the worst champions I have seen.
To universal rejoicing at Anfield the news came in that the hammers had held out and Blackburn were champs.
Be honest at least.

 

[RedFish]

These are exceptional circumstances. We haven't seen Liverpool win the league for nearly 30 years. That's a streak worth fighting for, preferably for all eternity.

 

[Smores]

That still doesn't mean you're less of a United fan or a bad supporter if you'd want United to win today. Arguments like "you're not a United fan if you want to win tonight", especially made by foreigners, are just stupid ones.

And that was my original point, i took issue with a foreign fan judging local ones without any reflection that maybe a local understanding drives such matters and they shouldn't judge.

Then someone decided to make it about all opinions are equal for some reason.

 

[thejtrain]

Needs a City United tweet/banner.
Bite

 

[Robbie Boy]

At least you are honest.

Like pretty much every normal / sane person in this thread.

 

[tenpoless]

For the first time since Moyes I feel like there's no point hoping for us to win or lose in this one. It's a lose-lose situation.

The scenarios :

• We lose and Liverpool win the league = bad
• We lose and City win the league = bad
• We win and it's not enough to get us the top four, City win the league = bad
• We win and it's not enough to get us the top four, Liverpool win the league = bad
  
• We win and We get top four, Liverpool win the league = bad
• We win and We get top four, City win the league = the best possible outcome yet still bad knowing Woodward is still here

 

[RedEM10]

I don't really care that much about top 4, we are clearly not good enough to compete against European elite even if we managed to pull off Paris miracle.

I do however care about Liverpool not winning the title. Easy choice.

Exactly my view, got slated for it. Think it makes perfect sense

 

[Giggzy P]

I hope we put in a great performance, an improved performance from the Sunday shambles.
But with that said, as much i i hate losing to City, today is not the day we should be winning, i would love it (in a King Kev voice) if we lost to a dodgy penalty decision or a blatant offside decision not given in the 94th minute.
Just imagine we win today, then not make top 4, with Liverpool winning the league

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

That open letter is hilarious, wasn't their sections in Anfield with banners urging their team to lose so we wouldn't win the title in '95?

I saw a sign in their stadium "Cockney for a day" in 2010 when they were playing Chelsea too.

 

[VanUtd]

Talking about giving away the match is disturbing. I'd always want an honest league. We can't be in the business of fixing matches.

 

[Sultan]

I won't lose any sleep or appetite if United lose tonight.

 

[cvb]

Talking about giving away the match is disturbing. I'd always want an honest league. We can't be in the business of fixing matches.

No one is asking you to give away a match - just play like you did at Goodison!

 

[Smores]

Can I judge, say, SirAF who happens to be Norwegian? Can I judge Spielmacher who is from Austria? Can I judge all the Irish people on the Caf, or do they get a pass despite not being from the UK?

More importantly, can you please feck off with your pretentious, condescending gatekeeping? I understand you probably want foreign fans to crawl away and leave your United alone but it's not a very nice sentiment to share on a public forum.

You're not alone in this, of course - it seems to be a go-to argument when those pesky foreigners dare to express disagreement: "you just don't understand!". Here's the thing though: no football rivalry is that special. Yeah, not even United v Liverpool. Almost every country with rich footballing traditions can boast of at least one similar rivalry. The historical background might be different (though it is often rooted in, say, the rivalry between two cities) but they still work the same way: losing to the other is the worst nightmare of both sets of fans while a win means bragging rights, at least until the next time. All fans experience that gut-wrenching fear and anxiety before and during these games. This works the same everywhere, be that Boca v River, Barcelona v Real Madrid, Celtic v Rangers, Ajax v Feyenoord, Ferencváros v Újpest, or Steaua v Dinamo.

So yeah, the notion that the weirdo foreigners just don't understand it is incredibly condescending and rooted in some sort of "football fan exceptionalism". It's a football rivalry, not rocket science.

State of you

Asking you to accept you might not be qualified to discuss local rivalries and therefore shouldn't judge = hating foreign fans.

It takes a small man to think they're qualified to judge everything and anything.

 

[Casanova85]

No chance. It’s an easy three or four goal victory for the Vermin.

Why? Wolves played like fecking At.Madrid 2013-14 when they faced Utd. some weeks ago but against Pool they'll be shite?

 

[djembatheking]

I have just seen Carragher on sky sports with a United Gary Neville top on , they are at it already and they are not champions yet .
I just hope our players continue with our recent effort and form and that should be enough to wipe the smile off Carraghers face .

 

[Siorac]

State of you

Great argument.

 

[Siorac]

This is a slightly strange one in that you'd think the people who live in Manchester would find a City league title the more painful of the two options. Because they're much more likely to have friends/family/colleagues rubbing it in their face. My own anti-Liverpool bias is probably heightened by the fact I don't live in Manchester. There's hardly any City fans my age in Dublin but fecking loads of Liverpool fans. And it's bragging rights with these chumps that matters most to me. The PL title has been just out of their reach forever. Will be glorious to see them denied one more time. Another City title doesn't bother me at all. They're nowhere near our haul of 20 titles and I don't have any friends likely to rub my noses in it if they finish ahead of Liverpool.

Yes, exactly this. I also know a shitload of Liverpool fans but not a single Manchester City fan. And that's partly why I'd vastly prefer City to win the league - just not at the expense of United.

 

[VeevaVee]

Not gonna lie, I'm nervous that we might win feck's sake

 

[SirAF]

Not gonna lie, I'm nervous that we might win feck's sake

No shit, I’m bricking it

 

[wr8_utd]

I won't lose any sleep or appetite if United lose tonight.

I'll lose all my sleep if we get any result tonight.

 

[duffer]

Strange times when more Liverpool fans want Man United to win a match than Man United fans do!

That being said you have to lose. Just imagine a Liverpool title win and all their fans thanking you.

 

[wr8_utd]

Not gonna lie, I'm nervous that we might win feck's sake

I'm not worried about winning. I'm just very nervous about drawing. We really need an early City goal don't we?!

 

[SirAF]

Strange times when more Liverpool fans want Man United to win a match than Man United fans do!

That being said you have to lose. Just imagine a Liverpool title win and all their fans thanking you.

When Chelsea mess up United have to mop up!

 

[cbmufc]

A 4-3 defeat would be nice with shitty scoring in injury time.

What possesses people to come out with garbage like this? You want 3000 berts ballooning last minute tonight?

Yes I would prefer city to win the league but if you genuinely aren't bothered about losing to city then give up football. If you know them personally they are snidey, united obsessed little rats and if you can't take pleasure of one of the worst united teams stopping one of the best city teams ever from winning the league I genuinely feel sorry you.

I agree Liverpool winning the league is a disaster but let's worry about United first and foremost.

 

[Crustanoid]

Manchester is United

 

[Isotope]

These are exceptional circumstances. We haven't seen Liverpool win the league for nearly 30 years. That's a streak worth fighting for, preferably for all eternity.

And for once, we have the chance to alter their history.

What a beautiful thought.

 

[duffer]

When Chelsea mess up United have to mop up!

We saved the world when Ba did his thing.

It's your turn!

 

[PGLFC91]

I saw a sign in their stadium "Cockney for a day" in 2010 when they were playing Chelsea too.

You have literally just made that up.

What about 1995? We beat Blackburn for United.

Also, does any rationale person actually believe Gerrard intentionally passed the ball to Drogba.

 

[SirAF]

We saved the world when Ba did his thing.

It's your turn!

Fair enough!