Barcelona vs Ajax final
Champions League Semi Finals (30th April - 8th May)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
To be fair, they're not exactly walking the Eredivisie league.
Never.
The only reason Ajax is struggling in the Dutch Eredivisie is because of the lack of space they get from the weaker teams. The PL is a playground for teams like Ajax. So much space. Top 4..easy.
If Ajax would be in the PL. They would earn more revenue. So they can keep their biggest talents (and attract better players if needed).
Easily top 4 imo.
Oh right, if you're talking about in the future then probably, you generate some massive talents.
I was more thinking if this Ajax team was just shoved in to the PL for this season, in which case I think they'd definitely be in a battle for top six along with us, Arsenal, United and Chelsea.
It's interesting that so many people have Liverpool down as sure winners for this tie. Reading this thread makes me think we're talking about math rather than football. I give Liverpool a slight edge because of the fact they seem to thrive on the 2nd and 3rd ball, they will relish any kind of chaos that may occur and will take advantage more likely than we would. These incidents are bound to happen so I think they will get their chances, from there it's down to luck.
However, here's an alternative take on what's being said here mostly: I actually prefer us host the opening leg. The thing with Valverde is that he is better at adjusting to the opponent midway through the game than he is at preparing his team for a game. Valverde is very good at adapting, he just needs time to figure the opponent out. His subs are usually better than his initial line-ups and we are more likely to win the second or third game against a team than we are the first.
Case in point, the run of three Clasicos earlier this year. First we played Madrid at the Camp Nou 1-1 in the Copa del Rey, and at this point people had Madrid as the likely winners of the tie. Then we beat them at the Bernabeu 3-0 (granted, that scoreline flattered us quite a bit, Madrid had a few missed chances), but after that we won 1-0 in the league, with Madrid having almost no chances at home. The progression was evident to anyone who watched all three games - we learned how to suffocate them and by the third game they didn't look like scoring anymore.
This is why I'm confident we'll beat Valencia in the Copa final (our third match of the season, after two draws) and why I much prefer to go to Anfield for the second leg rather than the first. This is a tie where one detail can make the difference and if we're to play Liverpool at their ground, where they have the advantage, I'd rather it happens after Valverde has had a taste of them first hand for a full game at home, to figure out what needs to be changed for the second leg. Whatever he gets wrong at the Camp Nou, it is less likely to hurt us than if it happened at Anfield.
I don't know what will happen and, given Liverpool's quality, I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us. The point is that those who have them down as favourites because they host the return leg should factor in the way Valverde works. He is not above doing whatever it takes to win (example: after being outplayed and thus losing to Betis at the Camp Nou 3:4 earlier in the season, he recognized they play some great football so when we went to Seville for the away game, he gave them the ball and we won 4:1).
I look forward to going at Liverpool in the Camp Nou when the aggregate is still at 0-0, we have a much better chance that way. When we get to Anfield, we'll have a better idea of Liverpool and will play accordingly, you can be sure of that.
However, here's an alternative take on what's being said here mostly: I actually prefer us host the opening leg. The thing with Valverde is that he is better at adjusting to the opponent midway through the game than he is at preparing his team for a game. Valverde is very good at adapting, he just needs time to figure the opponent out. His subs are usually better than his initial line-ups and we are more likely to win the second or third game against a team than we are the first.
Case in point, the run of three Clasicos earlier this year. First we played Madrid at the Camp Nou 1-1 in the Copa del Rey, and at this point people had Madrid as the likely winners of the tie. Then we beat them at the Bernabeu 3-0 (granted, that scoreline flattered us quite a bit, Madrid had a few missed chances), but after that we won 1-0 in the league, with Madrid having almost no chances at home. The progression was evident to anyone who watched all three games - we learned how to suffocate them and by the third game they didn't look like scoring anymore.
This is why I'm confident we'll beat Valencia in the Copa final (our third match of the season, after two draws) and why I much prefer to go to Anfield for the second leg rather than the first. This is a tie where one detail can make the difference and if we're to play Liverpool at their ground, where they have the advantage, I'd rather it happens after Valverde has had a taste of them first hand for a full game at home, to figure out what needs to be changed for the second leg. Whatever he gets wrong at the Camp Nou, it is less likely to hurt us than if it happened at Anfield.
I don't know what will happen and, given Liverpool's quality, I wouldn't be surprised if they beat us. The point is that those who have them down as favourites because they host the return leg should factor in the way Valverde works. He is not above doing whatever it takes to win (example: after being outplayed and thus losing to Betis at the Camp Nou 3:4 earlier in the season, he recognized they play some great football so when we went to Seville for the away game, he gave them the ball and we won 4:1).
I look forward to going at Liverpool in the Camp Nou when the aggregate is still at 0-0, we have a much better chance that way. When we get to Anfield, we'll have a better idea of Liverpool and will play accordingly, you can be sure of that.
He’s not, Ajax’ budget and popularity would have increased tenfold.
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Sorry, only saw this just now:
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No i consider past results and what Liverpool are capable of at home on European nights in the hostile atmosphere of Anfield. Barca losing to Roma last year wasn't a one off poor away day display either. 2-0 v A Madrid, 4-0 v PSG and 3-0 v Juve all in recent years.
Liverpool's away defeat swere in the group stages. They are a different animal in the knock out stages as Manchester City the best in England last season by some distance found out last year when they lost home and away to them. As i said already i'd love to be wrong and for Barca to win this tie by a bit to spare.
Liverpool's away defeat swere in the group stages. They are a different animal in the knock out stages as Manchester City the best in England last season by some distance found out last year when they lost home and away to them. As i said already i'd love to be wrong and for Barca to win this tie by a bit to spare.
You are right. This Ajax team would obviously struggle in the Premier League for the reason called squad depth. When Ajax has to rely on options from the bench the level goes down quite quickly. Obviously this is a consequence of being in the smaller Dutch market which does not generate enough funds to obtain more good players and also decent players generally dont like sitting on the bench for too long and even less so in a small league. Obviously in a strong league like the PL its impossible to cope with a poor squad depth. Ajax might not have made the top 6 although given the form United has been in this season and how many points United dropped, even with poor squad depth Ajax might have been in this race.
As for the CL ties; obviously every team in this position now has the chance to push to the final and also to win it. I really hope the final will be Ajax vs Barcelona, but I don't think this will be the case.
I think Liverpool wil beat Barcelona for the reasons stated earlier in this thread. Liverpool have the perfect tools to dismantle Barcelona. This is not the Barcelona team of Guardiola who were incredible in posession. With Xavi and Iniesta they would 99 out of 100 be able to play through the pressure and then kill the opposition once the ball got to Messi. These days Messi will still kill an opponent if Barca plays through the pressure and the ball gets to him, however Barcelona don't cope half as well under the pressure as they did in the past. There were people in here saying they coped under the pressure of Real and Atletico, but you can't compare that. Atletico does not even put pressure on the ball, they just sit back on their own half and wait for the counterattack or a set piece. Real Madrid also is not really a team that puts high pressue and when they do at times it is nowhere near as organized as Liverpool will pressure them. The time that Barcelona could cope with a well organized high pressure team is long gone in my opinion (as sad as I am to say that). That's why Liverpool are the favorites for me. Obviously the GOAT can change that, but how often will he see the ball? As someone already pointed out, if Liverpool score first then Barcelona have a big problem.
Liverpool can make one mistake though and that's being too defensive in Nou Camp. If they go too defensive and not put pressure on Barcelona then they might get smashed. Liverpool also don't have a Mourinho-like setup and play for a 0-0. Liverpool should not enter the match thinking they have to stop Barcelona from scoring, they should enter the match taking the iniative and pressuring Barcelona into making mistakes. If they do that, they have a very big chance to get one or more away goals which might be decisive in the end. However if they don't show the guts to attack Barcelona then Barcelona will find the gaps and score goals. And if you start with a certain mentality (don't conceed instead of trying to score) in general it turns out that it's very hard to switch during the match. If Liverpool do that then they can easily lose by 3 or 4 goals in Nou Camp. However if they play from their own strengths and put pressure on Barcelona then they are bound to force mistakes in Barca's build up and get at least one away goal.
As for Spurs-Ajax: Obviously a unique opportunity for both. Even to be in the semi-s and then also facing an opponent that's not a tournament favorite to start with. Whatever people say it's a 50/50 match. As an Ajax fan I definitely believe in our chances. I wonder what Spurs' approach will be in the first game, since they don't have Kane and Son. I hope this will be an open game, also because that would definitely increase our chances, but I think Pochettino also realises that and I wouldnt be surprised if he takes a very careful approach to this game which may cause it to be a boring underwhelming game for the neutral.
Dippers are going to back to back finals aren't they?
It all comes down to the second leg.
The Newcastle game will take alot out of Liverpool. Barca will play their reserves in their league match before the second leg (having won their league).
The extra rest for Barca players will play a factor at Anfield.
The Newcastle game will take alot out of Liverpool. Barca will play their reserves in their league match before the second leg (having won their league).
The extra rest for Barca players will play a factor at Anfield.
Elite teams need to be able to compete on multiple fronts, simple as. Credit to Barcelona (and feck you Real) that they've already won their league, nothing to be done about that.
It shouldn't be an excuse either. Players should be up for it regardless, it doesn't get better than a return semi-final at Anfield for them. Very much looking forward to it, Wednesday evening can't come soon enough.
Barca - Liverpool feels like the final for me, winner of this wins the whole thing. Please win Barca 
Your right about Ellite teams competing on all fronts, but having a week off to prepare for a big game at this stage of the season must be considered as an advantage.
Yeah no doubt, Messi hasn't played a full game since April 20th... I was happy they needed to bring him on at HT this weekend.
I'd take a 2-1 defeat or something, a draw would be great and a win is just too much to ask for probably.
I would have Liverpool as favourites to progress if that happened. A one goal defeat (if you score) or draw of any kind.
If Barcelona didn't have Messi, I would be heavily backing Liverpool to go through comfortably. I still think Liverpool will progress, but it'll be relatively close over the two games.
Just like the extra rest for Liverpool will play a factor in the first leg. They've basically had one low intensity game against Huddersfield in the last 10 days.
I strangely think Ajax will find their Waterloo (is that a saying in English?) against Spurs. They've managed to raise their game to insane levels against very clear favorites twice now and even though they won't really underestimate Spurs, they will still somewhat underestimate Spurs. They're missing their 2 best players, they lost their last league game, Ajax is poised to win the league. The ingredients are all there for Ajax to crash out in a hugely disappointing way.
Or, of course, they will smash them 1-4 and you can quote me for being a spiteful and jealous Feyenoorder.
Or, of course, they will smash them 1-4 and you can quote me for being a spiteful and jealous Feyenoorder.
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Saved for later.
I don't think they will underestimate Spurs, I'd sooner see them underestimate Willem II in the in-between-final while their full focus is on the CL.
I'm sure you'd happily trade the KNVB beker for a spot in the CL final. Hell, not even Feyenoord fans care about the KNVB beker. Honestly though, I think you will destroy Willem 2 and comfortably win the last two league matches. Though Graafschap away is a spicy fixtureSaved for later.
I don't think they will underestimate Spurs, I'd sooner see them underestimate Willem II in the in-between-final while their full focus is on the CL.
In the end, I REALLY hope you guys win the CL, it would be awesome for our tiny nation and our shite league.
Haven't heard that saying before in England, but it's a good one tbf!
I've gone the opposite way. Full strength I'd be confident we can beat Ajax, but with no Kane, Son and so many others doubts/probably going to pick up niggles during, we're going to be nowhere near that.
Honestly if Ajax play really well in the first leg where we're missing our two star attackers, they could put the tie to bed.
The injuries are really taking their toll this second half of the season. We've had many periods of missing Sissoko, Kane, Son, Alli, Winks etc.
I'm sure you'd happily trade the KNVB beker for a spot in the CL final. Hell, not even Feyenoord fans care about the KNVB beker. Honestly though, I think you will destroy Willem 2 and comfortably win the last two league matches. Though Graafschap away is a spicy fixture
In the end, I REALLY hope you guys win the CL, it would be awesome for our tiny nation and our shite league.
Isn't this kinda like me hoping Arsenal or Chelsea won the CL?
You guys on the continent are far too nice. Need more burning hatred in your lives.
I'd say it's like a United fan wanting Pool to win the CL or vice versa. And it has little to do with the continent, I'm just a shite fan who is more interested in Dutch football in general than one particular club. I mean, as a kid I chose Feyenoord to be contrary to everyone supporting Ajax and I still enjoy Ajax losing domestically a lot, but in Europe? Meh, it's hard to dislike Ajax for me. Which is something not shared by most Feyenoord supporters. Most of them refuse to even say the word Amsterdam, instead referring to it as " 020" which is their net number. Plenty of burning hatred here
I'd say it's like a United fan wanting Pool to win the CL or vice versa. And it has little to do with the continent, I'm just a shite fan who is more interested in Dutch football in general than one particular club. I mean, as a kid I chose Feyenoord to be contrary to everyone supporting Ajax and I still enjoy Ajax losing domestically a lot, but in Europe? Meh, it's hard to dislike Ajax for me. Which is something not shared by most Feyenoord supporters. Most of them refuse to even say the word Amsterdam, instead referring to it as " 020" which is their net number. Plenty of burning hatred here
Fair enough.
I'm sure you'd happily trade the KNVB beker for a spot in the CL final. [...] Honestly though, I think you will destroy Willem 2 and comfortably win the last two league matches. Though Graafschap away is a spicy fixture
In the end, I REALLY hope you guys win the CL, it would be awesome for our tiny nation and our shite league.
Went to the ArenA for the "All-Johan's-everywhere-get-a-free-tour" day, van Gaal's CL trophy was prominently missing from the cabinet... Are they reserving some space already?
But yeah, Ajax winning this CL title would probably mean (next to boosting the hopes of PSV and Feyenoord for new European successes) a lot to all the relatively minor league nations who have felt they missed out on any chance of winning since the demise of the Europa Cup I. Would certainly give a morale boost anyway as it keeps the hope alive. Whatever happens though, we can be glad Ajax already safeguarded Dutch European spots for the time being despite a long line of disastrous European seasons for the other Dutch clubs.
Except that it'd be Ajax winning it in De Kuip of course.
I actually know some Feyenoord fans who are going to see it. Presume they bought tickets for the Willem II side of the stadion... Btw, I find it rather disappointing and unfair that Willem II is denied a guaranteed Europa League spot for reaching the final of the cup, unless they win it, as Ajax already qualified for pre-rounds of the Champions League. The ticket would go to the #4 or #5 of the league now.
Also a bit bullox is that if Ajax captures the double, Willem II won't be playing for the Johan Cruijff Schaal, instead Ajax (as cupwinner) would play the #2 of the competition, PSV (as league winner substitute). I find it rather arbitrary to promote winning the cup over winning the national title in an attempt to prevent the JCS to be played against an amateur team (would they by chance have reached the finals). Should have a play-off between Willem II and PSV for who gets to play Ajax for the JCS to make it fair really.
European competition is regarded differently. Unless you play one another, we need each other for the league coefficient and keep qualification spots in any European Leagues.
UK, Spanish, German and Italian teams have the luxury of being assigned so many arbitrarily assigned qualification spots, you wouldn't really notice if you lost three entry positions into Europe.
The enemy of my enemy, you know.
Besides, nobody should trash Feyenoord in their own stadion but us, when we feel like it. Next year perhaps.
Given that we're missing both Son and Kane for this match I think that, unusually for a home game, we'll sit back and play a counter-attacking style .. which won't suit Ajax very well.
I reckon something like:
———————— Lloris
—— Alderweireld Sanchez Vertonghen
Trippier Sissoko Wanyama Rose
—————— Eriksen - Alli
———————— Moura
I reckon something like:
———————— Lloris
—— Alderweireld Sanchez Vertonghen
Trippier Sissoko Wanyama Rose
—————— Eriksen - Alli
———————— Moura
The problem is Moura cannot be relied upon consistently.
He may well have a great game, but he's not really good enough to lead the line for us and I expect us to struggle in front of goal unless he's really on it.
Interesting seems Barcelona are getting tactics from Pep / City on how to play Liverpool. Given how City improved this season against pool since last year's CL semi defeats, this could be key to the tie. Barcelona couldn't have a better scout than Guardiola.
Could see Barcelona play long / on the counter attack. Interesting in the league game at Anfield, City only had 51% of the ball. Barcelona will surely try and do similar. That is best chance Barcelona have with 2nd leg at Anfield, not going to be easy tie almost regardless of the score in the first game.
Could see Barcelona play long / on the counter attack. Interesting in the league game at Anfield, City only had 51% of the ball. Barcelona will surely try and do similar. That is best chance Barcelona have with 2nd leg at Anfield, not going to be easy tie almost regardless of the score in the first game.
Spurs are there for the taking if Ajax play well imo, so hopefully they don't play too pragmatic in order to get a "decent" result away from home, but rather go for the kill right away.
This season it doesn't seem to matter if Ajax plays at home or away. They just deliver when they need to.
I think Spurs will win the first match. The return is going to be a thriller.
I think Spurs will win the first match. The return is going to be a thriller.
Sit-back and give Ajax possession on your half and hope for a few chances to be succesful? Yeah, that will end well...
Please do!Expecting Tottenham to go and try to win midfield and play the pressure game too, or they’ll get surgically torn apart time and again if they turtle and play for the counter, soaking up wave after wave of attack.
Ajax is all about “Moar offense” even if you lead 4-0, even if you’re playing “the bestest team ever”, the goal will always be to score as many as possible. Looks like you’re confusing Ajax with PSV.
It is pragmatic in that the philosophy aims to score so many goals that even if you concede goals you win. It’s not pragmatic in the “calculating, biding our time” way of going turtle defense with a hope of lashing out once or twice and making those few chances count, no matter how boring and ugly it looks. That would be PSV. Or an Italian team.
That's what I meant, I hope they stay true to their style and don't change it up just because it's a CL semi-final and the "wise thing to do" or whatever.Sit-back and give Ajax possession on your half and hope for a few chances to be succesful? Yeah, that will end well...
Expecting Tottenham to go and try to win midfield and play the pressure game too, or they’ll get surgically torn apart time and again if they turtle and play for the counter, soaking up wave after wave of attack.
Ajax is all about “Moar offense” even if you lead 4-0, even if you’re playing “the bestest team ever”, the goal will always be to score as many as possible. Looks like you’re confusing Ajax with PSV.
It is pragmatic in that the philosophy aims to score so many goals that even if you concede goals you win. It’s not pragmatic in the “calculating, biding our time” way of going turtle defense with a hope of lashing out once or twice and making those few chances count, no matter how boring and ugly it looks. That would be PSV. Or an Italian team.
From bedlam to the Bernabéu – how Ajax performed a miracle
Acrimony and underachievement have given way to stability and nous and taken the Netherlands’ most storied club to the verge of an unthinkable achievement:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/28/ajax-champions-league-bedlam-bernabeu-miracle
Acrimony and underachievement have given way to stability and nous and taken the Netherlands’ most storied club to the verge of an unthinkable achievement:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/28/ajax-champions-league-bedlam-bernabeu-miracle
Sit-back and give Ajax possession on your half and hope for a few chances to be succesful? Yeah, that will end well...
Expecting Tottenham to go and try to win midfield and play the pressure game too, or they’ll get surgically torn apart time and again if they turtle and play for the counter, soaking up wave after wave of attack.
Ajax is all about “Moar offense” even if you lead 4-0, even if you’re playing “the bestest team ever”, the goal will always be to score as many as possible. Looks like you’re confusing Ajax with PSV.
It is pragmatic in that the philosophy aims to score so many goals that even if you concede goals you win. It’s not pragmatic in the “calculating, biding our time” way of going turtle defense with a hope of lashing out once or twice and making those few chances count, no matter how boring and ugly it looks. That would be PSV. Or an Italian team.
Sitting back and playing on the counter is not the same thing as "parking the bus" or playing with a packed defence. It's simply a recognition that we are without Son or Kane and therefore it doesn't make sense to focus our game on attack.
But in the 2nd leg, with Son back - and possibly even Kane - and with away goals counting double, it would be a different story.
Imagine if Spurs somehow manage to win the whole thing. That will be a big dagger for Arsenal fans. I kind of want it because of that.
So, I'm assuming if Spurs get through Kane would be available for the final?
Didn't know Martin Jol is now writing articles.
He has managed Al Ahly in Egypt about 3 years ago and despite winning the league he was mostly unsuccessful and got sacked. Didn't hear of him since then.
I think Spurs will sneak a 1-0 win at home and get to the final. I'm obviously bricking it that Liverpool could beat Barca but conventional wisdom says Barca get through. They haven't been in a final for a long time in their standards and seem to have the bit between their teeth - especially Messi. A clean sheet at home is very important. I'm going for them to win and keep a clean sheet also. Hopefully it's 3-0 or 4-0 but I'm suspecting a nervy 1-0 like Spurs too.