How far away from City are we?

[Tony Banta]

We’re probably 6/7 players away, to matching their best Eleven, in terms of quality. So we could potentially close the gap to 4/5 players, this coming transfer window. Their depth is ridiculous though.

Our ‘style’ of football is light years away.
City have been building for years, so we’re a way behind, in that respect. Their transfers prior to Pep, were made with Pep in mind. They had direction and a clear plan, we’re middle of the road.

City currently have D.Silva and Agüero, two that will go down as two of the best players in their history, if not the best. Not many in our current squad, that’ll go down as greats, at the present time.

Is it realistic to close the gap? Yes in terms of points, they’re a 100 points a season team now, that’s the benchmark, we should improve, with the right signings, on the projected 69 points we’ll finish with this season. But In reality, we won’t be getting much closer. Arsenal finished 37 points behind them last season, will finish around 28 points behind, this season, they’re closer but not any closer, if that makes sense.

The gap has been widening, for a number of years, more than just the past 6 seasons, since SAF retired, In terms of their recruitment, academy, future planning etc.

Ed sees us as an adult Disneyland, their owners see them as potential CL winners, and regular PL winners.

 

[crackers0seven]

5yrs away from us I reckon. And that's with us restructuring the club and improving transfers and development. Then we might be near to actually challenging them.i think they are fantastic so itll be very hard to improve on what they got. Only way is up for us, So hopefully our upward curve will be faster than likes of citys.

 

[Bill Beaumont]

Reminder that this board and our recruitment has shown, time and time again, that it isn't good enough.

We were 2nd last year. Doesn't mean much.

People say we finished 2nd Liverpool were 4th last season, but let's get real here, Liverpool were trying to get to the cl final and massively rotated their team in the league cause their squad wasn't ready. If they weren't in the cl they would've finished second easily and were clearly a better team than us.

Now I'm not saying we can't get top four next season, we absolutely can, but don't compare us to Liverpool last season cause we are miles off.

 

[Bubz27]

People say we finished 2nd Liverpool were 4th last season, but let's get real here, Liverpool were trying to get to the cl final and massively rotated their team in the league cause their squad wasn't ready. If they weren't in the cl they would've finished second easily and were clearly a better team than us.

Now I'm not saying we can't get top four next season, we absolutely can, but don't compare us to Liverpool last season cause we are miles off.

Are you supporting my argument or against it?

 

[MrBest]

Probably 20 years, 10 managers, 1,000 players and a new CEO. Place is a joke with pathetic gutless players like Pogba.

 

[bosnian_red]

Problem is people think we can cut the gap with City in one go. We can't. Take things one step at a time. While Pep is there, we aren't going to match City. Luckily he's not going to stay for years and years. Klopp will probably stay at Liverpool longer, but they also won't be as dominant as City under Pep. That's the reality. They're the 2 best managers in the world and play great attacking styles. Nobody can possibly have the lure that they do, unless some other genius manager comes around (and no, not Poch. He is not on their level, laughable to even suggest).

We should first focus on getting a squad of players that looks settled here with no glaring issues. That means signing 2 central midfielders, a right winger, a right back and a center back. That's just bare minimum to put out a starting 11 where everyone is in their normal position, and you don't have some mid table at best player starting every week out of position because the squad is a mess. Then you develop the players as a group, develop the younger players to make the step up, hopefully have a coaching team that know what they want, know how to coach a progressive style of football and implement it to the team, and then improve on the players who are decent but not quite good enough to give you that push. Then, you reach the very top level in terms of teams around the world.

Look at City. Ederson is a very good goalkeeper but also perfect for Pep's style with his playing out the back. They bought Walker for right back because they needed that. They have 2 ball playing center backs that they bought, and even then, they're probably only truly happy with Laporte. Left back they spent big on Mendy, he hasn't turned out and that's been a problem position for them. Midfield they have loads of quality options, but also always looking to improve the depth and the starting options. Same with the attack. They replace David Silva with basically his twin before he even declined. They signed one of the best wide players in the prem to give them depth in attack. They're planning to spend big on Bruno Fernandes when he's never going to be ahead of De Bruyne in the pecking order. They're going for Joao Felix even though they have one of the best strikers in the world starting in Aguero and one of the best prospects in Jesus. World class starters and potential world class talents all over.

If everyone all of a sudden got released from United, who would they go for? Probably Rashford because he's a big talent, maybe Martial because of the potential that Pep could probably unlock (but also if nothing for squad option in the attack). Pogba wouldn't even start for them if we're being honest, because stylistically he doesn't suit Peps way (though maybe he'd fit him in). Lindelof in defence I'm sure would be good for Pep because he's good on the ball. A couple others maybe, but even on free's there are so many that the top team in England wouldn't even look at as squad players. That's how far we are. You can't measure it in money, you can't measure it in individual players. It's a few years of the right management and team development over a few years, like how Klopp did it with Liverpool. Yet even still, they will likely lose to Pep. Sometimes you just can't do much in that situation. But you need to try and get close at least and hope luck brings you past them.

 

[Roger777]

How far away??

Do you want it in kilometres or miles?

Whichever way pal, we are not even on the same map as city.

 

[adexkola]

We are far from City in Pep's first season.

I'd kill to watch a United that had a clear system in place, and just needed the right personnel and a little time in order to click.

 

[kthanksbye]

Pep getting bored, moving to Juve and Sheikh Mansour also getting bored and stopping the money he puts into the club.

Then we get a DoF, 9-14 world-class to solid players, a manager and 3 years.

That's how far away we are.

 

[Bastian]

We are 9 starting players, 5 squad players, 1 world class manager, 1 world class DOF and 3 years of training and implementing a philosophy away.

So no, we wont reach them not the next season or the season after that one, nor the season after.

That's the definitive answer to the question.

 

[pocco]

This depends entirely on ourselves. City have fantastic players and options all across the pitch, so I don't think they have huge scope for improvement unless they sign Messi, Neymar or Mbappe. Perhaps their CBs can be improved.

We've a few ways of going about it. Firstly you can try to do what Rodgers did at Liverpool, and now Klopp, whereby you have a mix of talented but hardworking players and have a well drilled system that will get results more often than not. Basically a team that performs better than the individual. Probably the cheapest way of doing it but it needs the right manager with these principles in place that is prepared to coach the players.

Secondly build a young team full of players with huge potential, knowing that every game they're learning and getting better, thus closing the gap over time. The only issue is that you might write off a couple of years whilst waiting, depending on the makeup of the team. You only need to look at Ajax, Dortmund over recent years, Spurs to an extent and the recent Monaco team for examples of this. The only difference is that we should be able to keep the team together at the end. This, i believe, is the smartest way.

Finally, just throw big money at players and build slowly over a few years. There'd be a high churn of players no doubt and we'd have to be ruthless. I suspect this has been our plan since Woodward came in, though just poorly carried out.

I don't think there's a quick fix as i don't think we even have the foundations of a good team, so pretty much every position would need to be considered against each of the above options. Whatever we do will cost a lot of money and, at a guess,would each take at least 2-3 years to bring us upto speed with City.

 

[Jibbs]

We are at least 6 years away from city, because since 2013 we have only regressed and they have improved. We are also at least 9 world class players, an experienced world class manager, a DoF, an intelligent, knowledgable CEO and sincere owners away from city.

 

[RedCurry]

A 6 month, and a 2 year, and a 5 year and a 10 year plan away. Someone needs to define a vision and milestones. Accountability needs to start at the top. Everything is possible with the type of resources we have.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Answer to the question? Not as far away as we will be next year and year after that. Things will only change once the structure of the club is fundamentally changed. This means have " football people " looking after the football side and " money people " looking after the financial aspect. Unfortunately this is not going to happen.

 

[Bojan11]

The only saving grace is Pep will eventually leave. Aguero, Silva and Kompany ain’t getting younger. De Bruyne is 28 and started to pick up a lot of injuries. If they don’t sign the right replacements then they could have problems too. Everything’s perfect for them now with Pep.

 

[Johnnyflame]

Owners who actually care about winning and not just the profit margin. That's the first and unsurmountable gap unless they decide to put something resembling a Premier League team on the pitch. Everything else is just the result of their actions.

 

[Waynne]

5-10 years.

City have the right manager and structure.

Even if this summer United fixed all the issues infrastructure wise, then the club would still take recruitment of personal and players then a season or two for it to gel.

Guardiola inherited a lot of good players (young players too), and owners that gave him a blank cheque and believed in him, they believed in his vision, United have Woodward and a bunch of dinosaurs at the helm.

When you look at someone like Ole, you don't think "he's the right man", it's again another "transition" and a "maybe".

Guardiola and Klopp are elite managers, and you know immediately that they will bring success and a challenge, you back them, if they say "I want this", you arrange for them to have it.

If you have a manager like Ole, who says "I want this", the board would question him, and its both the structure and the manager, players also don't really respect Ole, it's not like walking into a club with an elite manager honestly, he still feels like a caretaker manager at this point.

It honestly feels like at this point, he's not the manager until the season starts again, and even then it'll be the same story of poor recruitment, not spending on players, renewing contracts where they shouldn't have done, because honestly, the clubs broken on a lot of levels, and that alone will take years to fix.

Bloody hell this is sobering to read but so very true.
My faith in this club and the people need to fix this mess is broken.

 

[Seij]

City's board was putting together Guardiola's team per his preference even before he joined them. They replaced Pellegrini despite him making it to semifinals of the CL and narrowly losing to the eventual champions as well as being 2nd in the league by 3 points before Guardiola was announced and Pellegrini fell apart. They also didn't hold back in decisively getting rid of their deadwood and spending what was considered a ridiculous amount for 3 fullbacks in a single transfer window, and didn't care about "great servants", "great personality" or "gotta take it slow with the transfers". Not all of their signings succeeded (Bravo) but they were prompt to fix their mistakes.

Meanwhile, we've got Ed "watch this space" Woodward trying to lowball Barcelona for Fabregas and end up paying more for Fellaini's release clause, getting played by Ramos and others to get them better contracts, repeatedly going after unrealistic signings or Real Madrid's unwanted players who don't even want to play for us, hiring managers with contrary philosophies, giving Mourinho a new contract only to block his transfers not even half a year later and doing a press to make Mourinho look bad (while still keeping him on the job), and continuing to reward our mediocre players with ludicrous new contracts.

We used to not even worry about how City is doing before. They've somehow passed us and the gap is widening every year. What a depressing time.

 

[Class of 63]

4.3 miles.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

How far away do you think we are in terms of quality and realistically do you think we could narrow the gap this summer?

25 to 30 points

To fix it:

1. A strict 3-5 year plan building
2. Planned recruitment. To fix department by department, plug squad hole by squad hole

 

[hn4manunited]

It all depends on the plan. If our hierarchy is able to hire the right manager with the right structure in place to rebuild the club, then it depends on investment levels. If we spend massive amounts the next two windows, we could potentially have something fruitful in 3-4 years. If we invest in bits and pieces at a time, for example 2-4 players each window, we would probably be looking at a minimum of 6 years or more.

 

[Charlie Yu]

A few right people away. It took Ajax just 2 years from losing to us in EL final to challenge the treble.

 

[PaulRich]

Irrelevant question sadly - based on yesterdays performance we need to ask ourselves how far away we are from Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal first. We aren't even looking a mid-table team at the minute. Man City and Liverpool are beyond reach and will be for some time.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

 

[Needham]

We are so far away that in the parallel universe where we're supposed to be better than them we are still not close to them.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

This doom and gloom on here is completely over the top. Ajax were knocked out of Europe by Rosenborg last season they knock out Real and Juve this season. Obviously cup competitions are completely different but, things can change pretty quickly in Football. And United have the ability to change things real quick.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This doom and gloom on here is completely over the top. Ajax were knocked out of Europe by Rosenborg last season they knock out Real and Juve this season. Obviously cup competitions are completely different but, things can change pretty quickly in Football. And United have the ability to change things real quick.

Shame Ole doesn’t feel the same way.

 

[Needham]

This doom and gloom on here is completely over the top. Ajax were knocked out of Europe by Rosenborg last season they knock out Real and Juve this season. Obviously cup competitions are completely different but, things can change pretty quickly in Football. And United have the ability to change things real quick.

But look at what City have. You're looking at de gea plus pogba plus 9 new players. And those 2 want to leave

 

[Keeps It tidy]

But look at what City have. You're looking at de gea plus pogba plus 9 new players. And those 2 want to leave

Liverpool were able to catch up in a short period of time.

 

[RoadTrip]

Honestly, the gap right now is so vast that’s it’s immeasurable.

And it’s not just “we need x players”. Fundamentally in so many areas of the club, we are just miles off.

 

[Ban]

Far away, far far away. If we had a structure and an idea what do we want to achieve and how we would come close. Unfortunately we don't have either, nor a man who know how to do it from the top.
We have owners who don't care much about the club nor the position it has in a football world and a guy who works for them who doesn't have a clue either. He just wants to be in the headlines.

 

[Leftback99]

Forget City, I think there's a decent chance we'll finish below at least one of Leicester, Everton or Wolves next season with these players.

All three have a better defence and midfield than us and are in a better position to add to specific positions to improve further.

 

[red4ever 79]

we are eleven players behind them

 

[Yagami]

If we get some proper coaching and bring in the right players, not that far. Liverpool have shown this. Trouble is we won't.

We were pretty much equal to them in van Gaal's last season, and then they got a great coach in Pep and we went backwards with a poor one in José. That set us back big time.

 

[sp_107]

They have Money with good hierarchy & Planning which is a deadly combo for success.

We can get all this in one or 2 summers if we are brave enough to accept what we are now and start making changes

solution to any problem is first accepting that there is a problem

 

[Wumminator]

Miles away.

However in two years it could be completely different. Things happen very fast in football and one or two players can change everything.

For example, we sign Van Dijk and Salah instead of Mikhitaryan and Bailly.

City lose Aguero and David Silva next year and replaced them with Fred and Lukaku.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

What I always think of is after Mourinho won his first two titles with Chelsea breaking a ton of records along the way it looked like they were going to dominate the PL for some time. A 3-0 win against United late in that season really cemented that. That summer United only signed Michael Carrick. And I think you know the rest. Obviously not the same situation but, once again things can change quickly.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Problem is people think we can cut the gap with City in one go. We can't. Take things one step at a time. While Pep is there, we aren't going to match City. Luckily he's not going to stay for years and years. Klopp will probably stay at Liverpool longer, but they also won't be as dominant as City under Pep. That's the reality. They're the 2 best managers in the world and play great attacking styles. Nobody can possibly have the lure that they do, unless some other genius manager comes around (and no, not Poch. He is not on their level, laughable to even suggest).

We should first focus on getting a squad of players that looks settled here with no glaring issues. That means signing 2 central midfielders, a right winger, a right back and a center back. That's just bare minimum to put out a starting 11 where everyone is in their normal position, and you don't have some mid table at best player starting every week out of position because the squad is a mess. Then you develop the players as a group, develop the younger players to make the step up, hopefully have a coaching team that know what they want, know how to coach a progressive style of football and implement it to the team, and then improve on the players who are decent but not quite good enough to give you that push. Then, you reach the very top level in terms of teams around the world.

Look at City. Ederson is a very good goalkeeper but also perfect for Pep's style with his playing out the back. They bought Walker for right back because they needed that. They have 2 ball playing center backs that they bought, and even then, they're probably only truly happy with Laporte. Left back they spent big on Mendy, he hasn't turned out and that's been a problem position for them. Midfield they have loads of quality options, but also always looking to improve the depth and the starting options. Same with the attack. They replace David Silva with basically his twin before he even declined. They signed one of the best wide players in the prem to give them depth in attack. They're planning to spend big on Bruno Fernandes when he's never going to be ahead of De Bruyne in the pecking order. They're going for Joao Felix even though they have one of the best strikers in the world starting in Aguero and one of the best prospects in Jesus. World class starters and potential world class talents all over.

If everyone all of a sudden got released from United, who would they go for? Probably Rashford because he's a big talent, maybe Martial because of the potential that Pep could probably unlock (but also if nothing for squad option in the attack). Pogba wouldn't even start for them if we're being honest, because stylistically he doesn't suit Peps way (though maybe he'd fit him in). Lindelof in defence I'm sure would be good for Pep because he's good on the ball. A couple others maybe, but even on free's there are so many that the top team in England wouldn't even look at as squad players. That's how far we are. You can't measure it in money, you can't measure it in individual players. It's a few years of the right management and team development over a few years, like how Klopp did it with Liverpool. Yet even still, they will likely lose to Pep. Sometimes you just can't do much in that situation. But you need to try and get close at least and hope luck brings you past them.

Agree with a lot. When City make a bad purchase they replace them, we keep giving players chance after chance to prove themselves when they are obviously the wrong player for us. Pep got rid of the older players, we give them new contracts. Absolutely no sentimentality.

 

[RoyH1]

Not as far as people think. A bonafide world class player per line, a director football/manager duo with a clear strategy and final say in player sales and purchases, and we can challenge them.

Of course these things are an utopia with our present set up.

 

[Josh 76]

Hopefully another 3 more points behind after tonight.