I don't think he scored two goals because the fans believed in him. Otherwise he wouldn't be always crap.
Things we learned from Liverpool
- Thread starter Isotope
- Start date
Gegenpressing is devastating if deployed properly.
This doesn't apply to Liverpool, truth be told they simply hired a good coach, nothing else.
Wijnaldum - Newcastle
Robertson - hull city
Henderson - subderland
Mane - Southampton
Vvd - Southampton
Firmino - hoffenheim ( I think)
Klopp is a an example of improving players by coaching them and not just acquiring them from real or juventus.
Robertson - hull city
Henderson - subderland
Mane - Southampton
Vvd - Southampton
Firmino - hoffenheim ( I think)
Klopp is a an example of improving players by coaching them and not just acquiring them from real or juventus.
I know it's a different sport, but in the NFL teams draft players from small colleges, and occasionally insanely small colleges that play at NCAA Division II or III level, and sometimes these players become stsrters. Keep in mind that the NFL would be the equivalent to a European superleague in football (soccer), and Division II and III college players would probably be equivalent to League Two players and below (probably worse actually). But if you're a talent and you're good enough, the NFL will find you.
It's the same thing with this sport. There's serious talent at clubs much smaller than yours. Liverpool know it. United merely used to know it.
It's the same thing with this sport. There's serious talent at clubs much smaller than yours. Liverpool know it. United merely used to know it.
Yup.
That's why I wholeheartedly approve if Solskjaer transfer plan is Premier League centric. Get the players from below United who want a bigger platform.
Hopefully all this will be like when Rafa was managing them, one of the most feared team in Europe, and neck to neck with us challenging the League. Then Rafa was cracking up, and lost the plot. The rest is history.
This
But even this took time to get in place. First season they tried it and they looked to be running on empty towards the end of the season. They've given Klopp time to get his mentality in place and have seemingly backed him with the players he wants to bring in.
They have a good manager who was backed. That simple...
Do we have the same? We’ll have to find out.
Do we have the same? We’ll have to find out.
Tbf every good teams are built from signing players like these. I mean signing players from smaller leagues and clubs. Don't think any team is built by signing players only from big clubs.
In any case, this should be something fans and board should learn. There are plenty of players who can improve the team, it doesn't have to be the obvious hyped up players whose market value is 100 million plus.
One thing we should also take from Liverpool is that you can look like a sleeping giant for over 2 decades but bringing in the right personnel and making the right signings can turn your fortunes around in a comparatively short time.
Not learned, but had demonstrated (again) the value of committing to a system and coaching players with the right attitude/work ethic or developing youngsters i.e. you don't need to buy a worldy in every position. For example: I'd take Ander over Jordan Henderson, but one of those is deemed by many to be surplus to requirements or 'not United standard' and one wears the skipper's armband and runs his heart out every game. We seem to have this disposable attitude to players, a sense of entitlement; make our minds up after a few matches that since they're not Scholes or Keane enough, don't emulate Cristiano on his debut, they can't do a job for us.
You need the right energy flowing through the club. We're tied to an identity and a way of playing and that's fine. Look at the players of Liverpool. How many were City after? Probably none of them. The owners are the problem because of the finances of other clubs. Talk of value. They can't compete and they are mugs to compete for top names while ignoring our lack of any real depth and the fact we're lacking in key positions. We need to scout better. We need to get these mugs off social media talking shite. We need to focus on football. There is a lot to learn and Sir Alex knew it. There were so many times people would moan about the team or Sir Alex would utilize a player in a certain position to perform a certain role. We need to be VERY strong in the market to raise morale and build from there. This was never Oles team and we see how fragile and how greedy/selfish and how pathetic they are. That much of the world is struggling and yet they are not but have no respect for the supporters. Get them out the club. Refocus on football.
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Yeah, it’s incredibly impressive. You can add Matip and Milner, too, who were both free agents.
A good point made.
Too many posters still living in fantasy land wanting us to go out and buy Sancho, De Ligt etc. Yes that’s the remedy isn’t it? Throw shed loads of money at unassailable players that sends out the wrong message; “ Come here,?we’re willing to pay you way over the odds so as to achieve our goals.”
Think the point being, it takes time and the right people.
1. Clear System of playing.
2. Hardworking players are important.
3. Get players to fit that system, not random players or fancy named players.
4. Players from smaller teams can be a gem if they fit well and have good attitude.
5. Can still challenge competitions with a bunch of players not galacticos nor have big reputations.
6. Get rid of problematic players.
7. Get rid of players not fit for that system, and give chances to players to replace 'em.
8. Problems are expected, take times to build proper squad, I mean Klopp didn't get instant success, but they're on the right track every season -- slowly building his Liverpool squad.
9. Manager to work with whatever limitations they had eg. financially limited, poor squad inherited, etc... instead of spending too much time complaining and making lame easy excuses.
10. High press strategy can be lethal, with the right players.
11. Develop good relationship of trust with your players, but no blind trust. Loyalty and confidence may be the result (see Spurs as well). Loyal players and confident team will try to improve their performances. Even if you had to resort to making ridiculous comments in interviews protecting your players.
Then again, those are nothing new.
2. Hardworking players are important.
3. Get players to fit that system, not random players or fancy named players.
4. Players from smaller teams can be a gem if they fit well and have good attitude.
5. Can still challenge competitions with a bunch of players not galacticos nor have big reputations.
6. Get rid of problematic players.
7. Get rid of players not fit for that system, and give chances to players to replace 'em.
8. Problems are expected, take times to build proper squad, I mean Klopp didn't get instant success, but they're on the right track every season -- slowly building his Liverpool squad.
9. Manager to work with whatever limitations they had eg. financially limited, poor squad inherited, etc... instead of spending too much time complaining and making lame easy excuses.
10. High press strategy can be lethal, with the right players.
11. Develop good relationship of trust with your players, but no blind trust. Loyalty and confidence may be the result (see Spurs as well). Loyal players and confident team will try to improve their performances. Even if you had to resort to making ridiculous comments in interviews protecting your players.
Then again, those are nothing new.
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Just be aware that it's not a magic formula either. Morgan Schneiderlin, Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Romelu Lukaku... it's not that we as a club turn our nose up at signing players from smaller PL teams, it's more like that no matter who we sign and where they played before, everyone turns shite here.
Had we signed Mané back then, we might be clamouring for him to be part of the clearout of deadwood by now. We're a graveyard for players.
But is this necessarily a parallel to our own current situation? Klopp was already seen as an "elite" but improving manager when Liverpool astutely appointed him. He had overcome the mighty and domestically dominant Bayern Munich. We can't say the same about Ole. If this is the lesson you are implying.
For me, the lesson is to have a clear long term recruitment plan and a world class scouting structure. Then to have a proven manager, in it for the long term, who can tactically get the most out of the team.
Of course. More than anything you need a DOF and a world class manager that’s capable of bringing the best out of the players and providing a clear style of play. As much as I like Ole, I really think you made a mistake appointing him (which is where the DOF comes in), as it will not only be costly when he’s most likely sacked sometime next season but also because you will once again start over. I kind of hope he isn’t, though, as he seems like a genuinely nice guy. But, as evident by Liverpool’s recent succes, “all” you need to do is find that manager and give him time.
Also...the absolute focus on fitness, which I'm sure is driven by Klopp, as his system requires it, but must be implemented by the overall coaching team. The difference in fitness between them and us is stark, and that can be the difference between winning and losing
Think that's a hindsight view since we've stuttered badly over the last month or so.
He needs backing from a personnel point. Like you said, DOF, good coaches around him etc. Summer will see
This a good coach with decent recruitment has done wonders for Liverpool and everything else seem to be looking great due to that ,it's not unique but most clubs tend to fail at that not long ago Liverpool's transfer committee was ridiculed but now with great coach they are hailed as model to be followed and their owners are suddenly great at understanding football As well.
Hmm. I haven't followed it a lot to be honest, but John Henry's Fenway Group took over after Gilette and Hicks, who didn't do well.
Thought Liverpool was kind of happy about their current owner? Allowed Klopp to sell Coutinho, to revamp the squad for instance.
What's the general concencus among Liverpool fans?
A good coach will improve players.
When your manager tells you he needs a world class centre half in the transfer window, back him.
They got VVD.
Jose got told to get to feck.
They got VVD.
Jose got told to get to feck.
I wanted United to sign Shaqiri from Stoke. Most people I said that to laughed and said he was shit and that he would unsettle the dressing room. Wasn't it worth a punt for bloody 12 million or whatever peanuts they paid for a class player?
I think Milner has been immense for Liverpool. An unfashionable workhorse of a player who always gives 100%. Would love a player like that. Great bunch o' lads.
I think Young was decent at the time he was bought, but he's past his best 4 years ago. Phil Jones was constantly injured and should never be offered another contract. I still have hope for Lukaku. I think Schneiderlin wasn't properly used by United. He was bought by van Gaal and didn't fit with Mourinho.
I think that's why they have flagged so badly in recent games
They learned from us for 26 years under SAF and now we can learn a bit too.
Don't make a big deal out of it.
Don't make a big deal out of it.
Didn't we sign that Nick something or other a few years ago from a lower league? Where is he now? Is he still incubating in the reserves?
Yeah, been saying this for a while. We make good players bad overnight. Something very wrong at this club, wish I knew what it was.
Nobody at the club can effectively cross, yet when Dalot came in he was pinging in amazing crosses in his first few games. But then after a month or so he suddenly lost the ability to cross and was doing his best Bebe impression every game. Club is cursed!
God you sound like Neil Warnock
Nick Powell from Crewe. Also, Mike Smalling from Maidstone? (Sharpey from Torquay).
That's the terrible thing, Fergie demonstrated understanding of most if not all of those points throughout his tenure, but we've ignored all that since he's left and we've turned into some lame Chelsea caricature.1. Clear System of playing.
2. Hardworking players are important.
3. Get players to fit that system, not random players or fancy named players.
4. Players from smaller teams can be a gem if they fit well and have good attitude.
5. Can still challenge competitions with a bunch of players not galacticos nor have big reputations.
6. Get rid of problematic players.
7. Get rid of players not fit for that system, and give chances to players to replace 'em.
8. Problems are expected, take times to build proper squad, I mean Klopp didn't get instant success, but they're on the right track every season -- slowly building his Liverpool squad.
9. Manager to work with whatever limitations they had eg. financially limited, poor squad inherited, etc... instead of spending too much time complaining and making lame easy excuses.
10. High press strategy can be lethal, with the right players.
11. Develop good relationship of trust with your players, but no blind trust. Loyalty and confidence may be the result (see Spurs as well). Loyal players and confident team will try to improve their performances. Even if you had to resort to making ridiculous comments in interviews protecting your players.
Then again, those are nothing new.
After the season we've had and particularly in the shadow of last night it's hard to be hopeful about United, but I agree with the thrust of this thread that the first thing we can do is swallow our pride and admit Liverpool have got loads of things right since their dark days under Hodgson and look to emulate them.
That Barca are bigger bottle jobs than us, I did not want to see Liverpool in the final again FFS. But they bottle it twice in a row from extremely comfortable positions, absolute shambles!
Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a someone with a track record of managing Molde and doing a bad job at Cardiff as the one to bring you back. We’ll see, and like a few other big clubs you’re facing an important transfer window.