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He's either embarrassingly shit at pressing, closing down and defending or he's lazy. Pick one.
Makes more sense. But I'll also say that I'm pretty sure distance covered shows how much stamina a player has, not how hard they workProbably been posted already but
It's also influenced by when you enter and leave the field. Someone that plays 90 minutes almost all the time will have his average drop at the end of games.Makes more sense. But I'll also say that I'm pretty sure distance covered shows how much stamina a player has, not how hard they work
Probably been posted already but
Does he deserve the cristisism? "
How come Mata is at the top then?Makes more sense. But I'll also say that I'm pretty sure distance covered shows how much stamina a player has, not how hard they work
Because clearly he has stamina to travel a large distance over the course of a match? It doesnt mean he runs at full speed with aggression to close players down with pressing, but it obviously means he has the stamina to travel a longer distance overall than his teammates. Plus he has the role where he doesnt stick to the right but wanders all over in the middle.How come Mata is at the top then?
Doesn't tell me anything, because I am sure someone ranks 1st in Cardiff Huttersfield as well.... If Pogba created the MOST chances etc. in the entire league, for the team but his team mates wasted all of them, then it tell me somethingThis season, Paul Pogba ranks 1st for United in:
goals/xGoals
assists/xAssists
goal-involvements
xGChain
chances cheated
dribbles
touches
passing chains
progressive passes
through balls
duels won
Racism card againI always cringe when I hear a black player called lazy, as it's a racist trope. Lukaku gets it all the time, as does Martial, increasingly. Shades of Ron Atkinson. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/22/football.raceintheuk
He's a professional football player who has to run around once a week for 90 minutes under intense scrutiny. Of course he isn't lazy. He just won the World Cup. He's in the wrong team to reach his full potential and he also lacks the consistency to be the world class player we want him to be.
I always cringe when I hear a black player called lazy, as it's a racist trope. Lukaku gets it all the time, as does Martial, increasingly. Shades of Ron Atkinson. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/22/football.raceintheuk
He's a professional football player who has to run around once a week for 90 minutes under intense scrutiny. Of course he isn't lazy. He just won the World Cup. He's in the wrong team to reach his full potential and he also lacks the consistency to be the world class player we want him to be.
Why do you think black (or mixed race) players like Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Smalling or Young never get called lazy? They get called shite, often, but never lazy. Why is that do you think? Also worth bearing in mind that only other player in the squad who consistently gets stick for not working hard enough is Luke Shaw. .Racism card again
Probably been posted already but
It's also influenced by when you enter and leave the field. Someone that plays 90 minutes almost all the time will have his average drop at the end of games.
This is all true but doesn't explain why Matic (who is 30 years old, as well as able to use the same tall/heavy excuse we hear a lot about Pogba) averages over 1km more than Pogba per 90. Which is a big difference. Can't be arsed checking but I'd say Matic has finished a similar % of games he starts to Pogba.Mata has 6 sub appearances and has been subbed off in 11 of his 16 starts. This may skew the numbers in his favour.
Pogba has just one sub appearance, subbed off in 6 of 34 starts.
As mentioned above, any player (if they aren't doped to the gills, at least) will run less towards the fag end of a match.
that's a terrible post. Pogba is called lazy because he loses possession and doesn't chase back, simple as, Matic is called it as he just doesn't chase back. Lukaku runs 20 m and then spends the next 20 mins doubled over out of breathe. He even admitted he was too heavy. Martial is called it because for all his ability he looks bored most of the time and doesn't fully utilise his talent. The same compliant was levelled at Januzaj and we don't want to see a repeat of that. The most revered and energetic defensive mid in the league and one most of us would love to have is Kante. We are linked with another busy energetic mid in Gueye at Everton.I always cringe when I hear a black player called lazy, as it's a racist trope. Lukaku gets it all the time, as does Martial, increasingly. Shades of Ron Atkinson. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/22/football.raceintheuk
He's a professional football player who has to run around once a week for 90 minutes under intense scrutiny. Of course he isn't lazy. He just won the World Cup. He's in the wrong team to reach his full potential and he also lacks the consistency to be the world class player we want him to be.
Ahead of Young/Smalling/Jones/Rojo/Darmian/Matic/Lingard/Mata?Pogba could run 20km every game for me, he’d still be the first out of the door
Matic is the one actual barometer in my opinion and from that point you have to look at the type of efforts that they both have, particularly in terms of intensity. As an example iirc Modric is around Pogba's figures while Kroos is above Matic, the type of efforts depends on the type of role and playing style. In order to judge the players we need a lot more data.This is all true but doesn't explain why Matic (who is 30 years old, as well as able to use the same tall/heavy excuse we hear a lot about Pogba) averages over 1km more than Pogba per 90. Which is a big difference. Can't be arsed checking but I'd say Matic has finished a similar % of games he starts to Pogba.
Or maybe it's true. Show me the white player that's been accused of it consistently.Racism card again
Show me the Sanchez is lazy thread then.that's a terrible post. Pogba is called lazy because he loses possession and doesn't chase back, simple as
Don't look for crap that is not there. Players are lazy regardless of whatever creed, colour or race they are.
Berbatov was accused of it all the time.Or maybe it's true. Show me the white player that's been accused of it consistently.
Luke Shaw is the most recent example. More fat than lazy but meh, whatever. Same thing really.Berbatov was accused of it all the time.
For me, it's Lukaku and Pogba that get consistently called lazy. Certainly fair to call Lukaku unfit. Certainly fair to say Pogba plays a self centred game. These guys are not above criticism. It's the use of the word lazy that evokes the Atkinson trope. It attributes an integral characteristic to them.Why do you think black (or mixed race) players like Rashford, Lingard, Fred, Smalling or Young never get called lazy? They get called shite, often, but never lazy. Why is that do you think? Also worth bearing in mind that only other player in the squad who consistently gets stick for not working hard enough is Luke Shaw.
It isn't though.Luke Shaw is the most recent example. More fat than lazy but meh, whatever. Same thing really.
It makes me cringe as well, and you have idiots who laugh it off as if its not a thing. 9/10 times when a player is being labelled lazy he's black. That's everywhere else in Europe as well.I always cringe when I hear a black player called lazy, as it's a racist trope. Lukaku gets it all the time, as does Martial, increasingly. Shades of Ron Atkinson. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/apr/22/football.raceintheuk
He's a professional football player who has to run around once a week for 90 minutes under intense scrutiny. Of course he isn't lazy. He just won the World Cup. He's in the wrong team to reach his full potential and he also lacks the consistency to be the world class player we want him to be.
He was lazy as fek thoughBerbatov was accused of it all the time.
Rio Ferdinand got it quite a bit as well because of his styleBerbatov was accused of it all the time.
Because it was a trope in this case. If people started using anti-semitic tropes about the Glazers, I'd call that out too. And I hate those cnuts with a passion.Fecks sake why is it that every time I open a thread about one of our black players there's always a discussion about racism?
For lack of work-rate? Pretty much our entire squad.Or maybe it's true. Show me the white player that's been accused of it consistently.
Lazy is not lack of work rate. The first is an inherent characteristic. The second is a performance issue to be corrected. That's the point.For lack of work-rate? Pretty much our entire squad.
Because of one or two people who are obsessed with pushing that agenda.Fecks sake why is it that every time I open a thread about one of our black players there's always a discussion about racism?
Whenever a player gets called lazy on the pitch, it's always in relation to their performance.Lazy is not lack of work rate. The first is an inherent characteristic. The second is a performance issue to be corrected. That's the point.
I don't recall ever mentioning it before. I don't really go for that SJW internet cr#pBecause of one or two people who are obsessed with pushing that agenda.
For me, it's Lukaku and Pogba that get consistently called lazy. Certainly fair to call Lukaku unfit. Certainly fair to say Pogba plays a self centred game. These guys are not above criticism. It's the use of the word lazy that evokes the Atkinson trope. It attributes an integral characteristic to them.
Martial and Lukaku are in the bottom 5 in the Premier League for distance covered per game, out of all players. It's one of the problems with our team. Ole is getting rid of Lukaku so we can play a high intensity high pressing game more in sync with the modern game. I don't think it's racist to say they don't work hard enough, if we want to play like City or Liverpool anyway. Perhaps Lukaku's build precludes him from such a style but I don't see why we can't get more out of Martial.It makes me cringe as well, and you have idiots who laugh it off as if its not a thing. 9/10 times when a player is being labelled lazy he's black. That's everywhere else in Europe as well.
It is though. Lazy = lacking in discipline. Not making the effort required. Some players (e.g. Lukaku/Shaw) look visibly unfit. Others (e.g. Pogba/Berbatov) look as though they’re not trying hard enough. But ultimately it’s all down to not being dedicated/hardworking enough. Which is a flaw fans find very hard to forgive. We’ll never be as good as football at these guys but we’d like to think we would, at least, try hard.It isn't though.
I agree. Not the same as lazy.I don't think it's racist to say they don't work hard enough
Messi never looks like he's trying very hard. Lazy cnut.It is though. Lazy = lacking in discipline. Not making the effort required. Some players (e.g. Lukaku/Shaw) look visibly unfit. Others (e.g. Pogba/Berbatov) look as though they’re not trying hard enough.