@Fridge chutney sort this guy out please. Tell him the realistic prices for those players.
No value in the transfer market
- Thread starter Enigma_87
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The great thing with guys listed in the OP are they're all ready for the next step. Meunier aside, who'd be good signing for other reasons, all those players remind me of a Firmino type. Playing at a good level in a good league but is at the stage of their career to take it up a notch.
We seem to be aiming for the younger British players, but we can't even get the cream of that talent. They're an exceptional group of players with huge price tags. Sancho, CHO, Foden etc, all £40m players atleast.
We seem to be aiming for the younger British players, but we can't even get the cream of that talent. They're an exceptional group of players with huge price tags. Sancho, CHO, Foden etc, all £40m players atleast.
The debt levels were dangerously high then. I suspect Fergie knew it would be risky if we couldn't clear some of those higher risk loans early on.
Yup this is the point of the thread.
We are in a position that we can sign very good players - improve both depth and also overall quality of the first 11. What we can offer Ziyech, Brandt, Meunier and others is competitive salary (we shouldn't overpay), playing time - which they won't get at Real, Barca, PSG, whilst getting them at market value.
Under Fergie we did need the cherry on top, but that was because we had a top class manager and a team that was always competing for titles - hence we were looking at top talent which came with the appropriate premium.
There will be competition obviously and we won't be able to sign all those players, but the quality is there IMO and with proper approach we can improve our core without spending hundreds of millions on Sancho and Koulibaly alone.
Look at Fergies spending history prior to the Glazers.
It had nothing to do with anything other than the fact that the club had no money at that time. Everything was being spent servicing high interest loans and refinancing debt. 2019-13 was seriously tight.
Throw in Andre Gomes, Hector Herrera (was free but gone to Atletico), Fornals, even Vardy who I doubt would cost more than 30 million due to his age but still faster than most players in the premier league and would bet he would not only score more goals than Lukaku has in a season for us but offer more in the build up as well.
Of course there was value in the market, player prices were going up year after year thats why Madrid made a profit on Ronaldo or we broke even on Schneiderlin. Fergie was making excuses, we didnt have much money to spend. Shame because a bit more investment back then and we wouldn't be in the position we are in now.
If Sarabia really has an 18M release clause, I have no idea why we wouldn't go for him.
Fergie said that to cover for the Glazers, and for me tarnished his legacy a slight bit by covering for them so much.
I don’t care about my narrative here, but you’ve got be kidding if you think SAF didn’t want better players, SAF was always after the best players, sometimes he got them sometimes he didn’t, but there’s not a chance in hell he wouldn’t have wanted to spend more money in the Glazer years.
Also, don’t take anything SAF has said or written literally, he’s a fantastic politician whenever he needed to be.
Actually Jones and Smalling were pretty good young players when they joined us. The problem is that Jones certainly hasn't fulfilled his potential and Smalling is just about ok.
I’ve noticed that Woody's valuation of players is consistently below what club’s want for the players. Unless it’s someone on a free, with a release clause, near the end of their contract or someone that no one else really wants (e.g. Bailly)
Some players value playing style, playing time, CL football, club stature, geography, language, wages, etc to varying degree and I think we can agree if these players are indeed bargains there will be multiple suitors. I guess my point is transfers are a two way street and United's stature and wages doesn't mean any of these players will want to join them.
Of course. I wasn't making out as if it was a given, but someone somewhere will want to join and if we sell them a rebuild it should be more tempting.
That all sounds well and good but when you see the influence that agents like Raiola have now, who start offering their clients to your biggest rivals as soon as they are dropped, then perhaps Fergie was right all along in not setting a dangerous precedent by bowing to agents inflated demands. Liverpool and City don't deal with Raiola generally so maybe some clubs are right to draw a line.
City walked away from the Sanchez deal knowing the damage it would do to the dressing room. That decision has proved a masterstroke, but had Sanchez been a success, then you'd still have a certain percentage of City fans fuming, without taking into account the damage it would have done to the club long term.
There's a few players out there right now who you'd have bet your house on Fergie attracting as unpolished gems, when their value was low in the past 6 years, if he decided one final rebuild - Dele Alli, Harry Maguire, Gareth Bale, Sadio Mane, N'Golo Kate, Fabinho, Moussa Dembele, Wanyama etc
That's fair.
Right, e mail this post to Ole and Woody.
Marked for urgent attention and action.
Signed Mr Glazier.
Smalling was a bit of a punt, and (probably) relatively cheap ... oh, and 9 years later he still happens to be our best defender.
Not sure you can say SAF got that one wrong.
My pleasure! Revised figures below:
In
- Meunier - £20m (RB)
- Alderweireld - £25m (CB)
- Tielemans - £30m (all round mid)
- Rabiot - £0m (holding/all round mid)
- Brandt - £25m (attacking mid)
- James - £10m (wing depth)
- Ziyech - £25m (RW)
- Icardi - swap
Out:
- Pogba - £160m
- Lukaku - Swap
- Sanchez - £0m
- Mata - £0m
- Herrera - £0m
- Darmian - £15m (Italian international)
- Rojo - £25m (Argentinian international)
- Matic - £20m
- Pereira - £25m (good young prospect)
Net spend: £115 profit
That leaves us enough to buy 2 of De Ligt, Sancho and Felix which should cost around £160M so we'd end with a net spend of £45M which is pretty good business.
You think we can get 85m from the sales of Rojo, Darmian, Pereira and Matic?
That is absolutely hilarious
They're all experienced internationals decorated at club level, except for Pereira who's going, skilled and will only get better, so those are realistic prices.You think we can get 85m from the sales of Rojo, Darmian, Pereira and Matic?
That is absolutely hilarious
First of, we don't know what Ole wants or see's and we could still have some faith. It's a new manager and I know everyone wants to say what he did at Cardiff with transfers but it's nothing compared to what we can do. If Woodward backs him and Ole comes out strong telling this players what he wants to do with the club and what we have the capability of doing with transfers considering there is talent in our squad (not all of it) we can do something pretty positive moves this window. The players listed in the opening are players Ole may very well rate and see the value in. He knows one window isn't going to make us Champions.
Matic and Periera would definitely sell in the premier league. Zero for Sanchez makes very little sense, someone would pay something for him, especially MLS or China.
Matic and Periera would definitely sell in the premier league. Zero for Sanchez makes very little sense, someone would pay something for him, especially MLS or China.
To me I think the issue went deeper. I think he was a principled man who became unhappy with the way football was heading and looked at it as a responsibility to do things “the right way”. He wasn’t going to be bullied by agents, he wasn’t going to spend a fortune on superstars and he wasn’t going to buy fancy foreigners if there was a British player who could do a similar job.
If you look at his purchases in his last 5 years we definitely spent a lot and would’ve spent a lot more had Benzema, Lucas Moura and a few others didn’t choose other clubs. Plus what gets swept under the rug is the amount we threw away on random punts over the years like Diouf, Obertan, Bebe and Manucho. If you add those up we literally pissed away more on those players than a lot of clubs had to spend. And only Hernandez worked out for us.
There was definitely value in the market. While we were screaming for a midfielder, we bought Ashley Young for 18 Million with 1 year left on his contract the same summer Vidal who certainly wasn’t an unknown went to Juventus for like 7 million.
If you look at his purchases in his last 5 years we definitely spent a lot and would’ve spent a lot more had Benzema, Lucas Moura and a few others didn’t choose other clubs. Plus what gets swept under the rug is the amount we threw away on random punts over the years like Diouf, Obertan, Bebe and Manucho. If you add those up we literally pissed away more on those players than a lot of clubs had to spend. And only Hernandez worked out for us.
There was definitely value in the market. While we were screaming for a midfielder, we bought Ashley Young for 18 Million with 1 year left on his contract the same summer Vidal who certainly wasn’t an unknown went to Juventus for like 7 million.
I don’t see it as something possible.
It’s only easy to say that less transfer fees is good & by selling lot & replace them can benefit the club in financial term. But in reality, it’s more complex.
I think what the club needs to do is also how they should spend the money wisely (whether they spend big on one player with reasonable wages or spend less on one player with unreasonable wages) and also keeping the wages structure is important so other players/agents don’t try to take advantage (for example Martial). It’s clear that buying players aren’t like buying stuffs in grocery stores. There is negotiation, same goes with selling players; it takes time.
Players like Alderweireld who is 30 cost very small fees but will ask enormous amount of wages; we have learnt this from Sanchez’s case, thus we have to switch our target.
Players like Rabiot has some bad background; the club needs or must to do research on before they actually sign players. Rabiot doesn’t want to play as DM, he might refuse to play if we ask him to be DM or he might ask crazy amount of wages & destroying the structure of the club just like what others have done. Not going into detail on Icardi.
Signing Meunier sounds good but means there is big question mark whether we should get him or develop the young ones like Dalot or Laird.
Too many changes also don’t mean good thing. New players need to adapt with new league & country. They also need adapt playing with new team mates. Hence, why Ole thinks the rebuild process should be done step by step.
@Bubz27 this is so wrong. We are never getting the money for the dross we have. You have failed the caf
Pereira has a triggered 12 month extension. £10m will be enough to get him imo
Shame on you! Don’t encourage him. His prices make my eyeballs itch.
You could be our Director of Football.
Woodward: What are these names?
Yep. It's the horrible irony that when we started lashing the money it from a position of weakness and by the wrong managers.
Imagine fergie being able to smash some of the last 6years wad after winning titles
Don't shoot the messenger. I just want mango chutney to have their say.
Get to scratching.
They were never good enough. While we were spending 20 million on dolly and daisy city were buying Kompany for 8 million . No value in the market if you did not have or as it appears now do not have the right people in place to tell you where to look.
That would be stupid.
We need to wait for the clause to expire, then pay £25 million a couple of days later.
Like we did with Fellaini. Genius.
#peakEd
You have to be kidding if you think SAF would've sat around accepting the Club doing this badly if it was because of the Glazers and their spending.
We've spent more than enough Money to be competing. We've spent it wrong, cant fault the owners for that. Since 2008 we've almost spend as much as City and Chelsea. Just look at the facts
I'm not sure if Ed knows how to work with release clauses.
So far he has worked with two - Fellaini - paid more than it at the end, and Herrera - the imposters debacle.
No one is going to offer £160m for Pogba, nor anything close to that.
United paid £95m for him (which was over-paying to start with) and since then - given his general level of performances - his stock has not improved.
I don't think Fergie ever believed it himself. He was just strapped for cash and that was the line he used.