I didn't even know we were playing you and instead of watching that game I'll probably be doing something more worthwhile .. like playing solitaire, or ironing my socks.Squishy is just getting in his excuses early before we beat them in our next pre-season game: "Doesn't matter, just about fitness".
Swarm
- Thread starter Billy Blaggs
- Start date
Nah, won’t even bother with you. Go troll someone else. Noone, before you answered made any indication of using this as proof that we’re back. Not one. So whatever else you wrote just now, it’s completely irrelevant. I’m pretty drunk right now, and usually I steer clear of here when I’m too deep in teh bottle, but this time I couldn’t help myself.
I'm definitely very glad you felt the need to tell me all of this.
At least I’m not hanging around a Tottenham forum, inventing shit and then telling your fans what to think of their team, and said shit, which in reality was a figment of my own imagination. By all means, carry on.
The thread title is “Swarm”, not “Ooh look at us, we’ve won a couple of pre-season games and so now we’re going to win everything “. We’re talking about how Ole is trying to implement a new style to our play and that we like it. It makes us more optimistic about this season than last pre-season. That’s mostly it.
I think you probably aren’t stupid enough not to know all of the above though. Yet still, you just couldn’t wait to rush on in here (to a United supporters site, a team you don’t support), so you could flap about and take a shite all over that optimism with your barely relevant comments. Is it a wonder people think you’ve got an agenda, you’re trolling or maybe that you’re just a typical Tottenham supporter with an axe to grind against United.
Anyway, well done you...you managed to get another bite. Good work fella!
That's the one.
As positive as it has been, we still have to remember it's only preseason.
Let's not forget our players aren't playing full 90mins. Lets hope our fitness has improved substantially so we can continue the high tempo press.
But it's obvious Ole has a plan and you can start to see which players will be in the starting eleven come Chelsea.
Let's not forget our players aren't playing full 90mins. Lets hope our fitness has improved substantially so we can continue the high tempo press.
But it's obvious Ole has a plan and you can start to see which players will be in the starting eleven come Chelsea.
I believe we can start being optimistic, but think those that are wary will be ultimately more correct, if Woodward fails to land maguire and fernandes or whatever options we are seeking in these essential positions
We just need to change the Ole's at the wheel lyrics. We need to get Sanchez out for sure, Fred maybe too. We've got Dan James, Paul Pogba and Fred, Beanzzz is manc born and bred.
It doesn't change that we've probably got 5-6 first team quality players at the moment (De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Wan-Bissaka, Pogba and I think Rashford (or Martial) gets there this year), so results might not be fantastic, but if we keep playing this style this coherently, it will be on the club and transfers and not Ole.
I’d like to think that with the influx of the kids it might inspire some of the more uh.. lackadaisical players to buck their ideas up a smidge!
As long as people understand it's unlikely we'll be able to play like this the entire season, and that there will be games where it backfires.
Even Pep and Klopp took a year to get their teams fully capable of doing it, but the key was that in that 'gap-year' they showed what they were moving towards and that given more time it would come together. Ole has now had 6 months with us but we started at a lower level (in terms of fitness and ability to press), so I expect we're another 12 months before we are really ready to do it. This season is about seriously putting in place the style and getting the players completely on board, which will hopefully be enough to get us top 4 and then have us ready to take that step up next season.
I do expect us to finish the season poorly though, as our players likely won't be able to maintain it for the full season. Especially if we go deep in the Europa and other cup tournaments.
Even Pep and Klopp took a year to get their teams fully capable of doing it, but the key was that in that 'gap-year' they showed what they were moving towards and that given more time it would come together. Ole has now had 6 months with us but we started at a lower level (in terms of fitness and ability to press), so I expect we're another 12 months before we are really ready to do it. This season is about seriously putting in place the style and getting the players completely on board, which will hopefully be enough to get us top 4 and then have us ready to take that step up next season.
I do expect us to finish the season poorly though, as our players likely won't be able to maintain it for the full season. Especially if we go deep in the Europa and other cup tournaments.
This is just a repeat of Ole's 2-3 starting months. Similarly, our players made crazy high press together in those short period.
I think that's what OP meant by "swarm" here right?
This only proves that this is the football identity Ole want the team to have. Confirm then.
Wouldn't feel safe yet.
How long the players bother to do this is the question? since majority of them stop doing it before in last season while our manager and coaches then couldn't motivate 'em enough. It's very difficult to trust them unconditionally. They have the soon season-to-start to prove it.
I think that's what OP meant by "swarm" here right?This only proves that this is the football identity Ole want the team to have. Confirm then.
Wouldn't feel safe yet.
How long the players bother to do this is the question? since majority of them stop doing it before in last season while our manager and coaches then couldn't motivate 'em enough. It's very difficult to trust them unconditionally. They have the soon season-to-start to prove it.
Swarm; beautiful description. As so many state, it is only pre-season and hopefully, they won't be burnt out by the time the real matches start but the highlights I've seen have been promising. I sincerely hope this isn't going to be another " calm before the storm " type of situation. Let's hope that PP's agent backs off a little and doesn't continue creating a toxic atmosphere around him or we will end up exactly like last season. OGS had an amazing start to his tenure, then something happened, which created an absolutely vile aura around the squad and subsequently created a terrible finish to the season. Some of the players have come out and said OGS has shown them his, and UTD's, vision and they have all bought into it and that they are very happy. They carry on playing like they are doing and OT will become more like the old " Theatre of Dreams ", as opposed to the " library " it has become. The fans will definitely support this kind of play.
You definitely know the players I am referring to. The ones who have been here for several years and failed under different managers yet are always given a clean slate in pre-season which translates to them stinking the place out all year.
So, let me get this straight.
A community member points out that he likes the play in a preseason game in a thread discussing tactics for the preseason.
You jump all over him for having some optimism.
You are a Spurs supporter on a Man United forum.
You are writing long posts about how preseason means feck all. Not even about your own team.
Do you even see the irony?
Geez, get a life.
Ok.
Yes.
When did posting a conflicting opinion become jumping all over somebody? Are you that much of a baby that you can't handle someone's contrasting opinion? I said that I find people who take pre-season results/performances to mean more than they do amusing, that's how I view it. It's something I've observed over years of being a football fan and it happens every single time. 'Oh this player is impressing/getting time, this system is working, we're going to do this and this' and then the reality is that situations completely change come day 1 of the competitive season.
I replied to people who made equally long posts but you don't seem to have an issue with that. This is usually how discussions go. And I'm discussing pre season in a general sense, not just how it impacts Man United. I notice how none of the United fans saying equally negative things have irked you in this way.
Man discusses an element of the football season on football discussion forum. Incredibly ironic.
People telling others to get a life on a football forum because they don't like what is being said will never fail to be amusing.
Yeah, I agree with this - and I don't often agree with this poster.
But what he's saying is fair and true here - pre-season means feck all, and I remember that LvG one as well.
It’s neither fair, nor true. You should read the reply from @ivaldo in this thread because it’s spot on.
Most posters on this forum would now agree with a simple truth: to control football matches at a high level in our age you need to be able to control the game both in and out of possession. Meaning controlling possession, with good positional play while retaining the ball (what LVG did). Press high up with real intensity to deny the opposition opportunities to score, and get good opportunities ourself by winning the ball as close to the opposition goal as possible (what LVG failed to do). Not that difficult to comprehend...
We absolutely didn’t press anything like this, as a team, under LVG. Not in pre-season, and not in the actual seasons. This is something we all need to come to terms with right now. If you can’t, try finding those games from our pre-seasons under LVG and see for yourself.
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Rival fan can't stand a united fan posting an optimist post on a utd forum. Then people wonder why it's all doom and gloom here.
If preseason means nothing, why are you spending two hours trying to convince someone it means nothing?
That’s the irony. You are spending your time arguing about something that is meaningless (your words).
Clearly, you are either really bored or you have this unhealthy need to be “right”, even when the topic of debate is “meaningless”. In either case, I hope you find what it is you are looking for.
For the record, I’m somewhere in the middle on this topic. Preseason is a time to install new systems of play. That’s where you can see how a team will perform in the new system, who is the best 11 in that system, etc. The results should be taken with a grain of salt because other teams are doing the same thing.
You're vastly overestimating how much time it's taken me to write these posts. And the whole point of a discussion board is to discuss different ideas with people, I'm not trying to 'convince' anyone merely put my opinion across.
No .. that's not ironic. Discussions between people about something they feel differently on does not equate to irony.
I don't need to be right and I don't think the topic itself is meaningless. All I did was post a harmless comment in the thread (I find it funny how seriously people take pre-season) and then a few people replied with pretty heated posts, which yeah .. I responded to. Then for having the audacity to feel differently about pre season to other people, I've been told to get a life and called a troll, whereas United fans expressing far more negative views on pre-season in this very thread have been totally ignored.
And that's fine, everyone is allowed their different perspective on what pre season actually means. For me it's merely a chance for players to gain fitness and for fans abroad to see their stars play. Yes, coaches will start to try and assert a new system but very often the attempt to use said system may not actually go to plan when the season starts. Most coaches will want to play high press and be aggressive/on the front foot, wanting to play like that isn't the issue it's doing it on a consistent basis. I already saw signs of Ole wanting to play this way last season but whilst it worked in bursts, ultimately I think too many of your players don't necessarily fit with it and aren't prepared to do it over the course of a season. Right now I think your team has a lot of players who have something to prove and a lot of youngsters, so playing aggressively and on the front foot is an easier task.
Pre-season is kind of like a pitch of an invention...
Yes, it's better to have an idea that excites - but it's basically impossible to tell if the invention will actually be successful or not when properly implemented.
Yes, it's better to have an idea that excites - but it's basically impossible to tell if the invention will actually be successful or not when properly implemented.
Yes exactly, while it looks great in pre season and there is room for encouragement we can only really tell when we go up against the more settled sides with established systems to gauge is it a goer but for now it looks to be a step in the right direction.
We have already seen that it can be successful last season to be fair
What I worry about is the plan B when teams sit back let us have the ball and we have to break them down
Are right-minded United supporters still being castigated by a giant whopper for having the audacity to make reasonable observations about what they have watched in three football matches?
I would sure hope not.
I would sure hope not.
Exactly - and it also has to be noted that most (all?) of the top European sides view pre-season as literally a jog around, they don't even really try to win.
And while we're traveling around half way 'round the World, many PL clubs will be simply honing their craft either at home or a lot closer to home and then often start the season very strong.
We've seen over and over again, and heard from both Mourinho and LvG, that the Utd pre-season tours and the travelling involved are tangibly detrimental to the coming season.
So yeah, lets wait and see when the season actually starts.
Alot of people asking if we can do this all season, from what I have seen in the pre season games, I think Ole is implementing 2/3 different styles of play.
1. Swarm - it is clear he wants to press high and counter from high up the pitch.
2. Sit back counter - During the Inter game, you saw when it wasn't logical to counter players dropped into shape and worked hard once the ball got into our half - this works well when they are tired and once we win the ball back, the pace is terrifying.
3. Build - When we build from Goal kicks, we have seen the ball moved side to side and then it goes into Pogba - Lingard - Rash who inject pace and make runs.
Looks like all of this is being worked on on the training ground - hopefully we can take this into prem games.
1. Swarm - it is clear he wants to press high and counter from high up the pitch.
2. Sit back counter - During the Inter game, you saw when it wasn't logical to counter players dropped into shape and worked hard once the ball got into our half - this works well when they are tired and once we win the ball back, the pace is terrifying.
3. Build - When we build from Goal kicks, we have seen the ball moved side to side and then it goes into Pogba - Lingard - Rash who inject pace and make runs.
Looks like all of this is being worked on on the training ground - hopefully we can take this into prem games.
Every top European club has to do this for commercial reasons. If you want Utd to stay at home we have to sacrifice the commercial benefit.
Man city, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool have all been travelling because of this.
Without these commercial deals, we won't be able to compete in the transfer window.
Are we competing in the transfer window, though...?
If so, who with?
This is the 3rd window in a row where bordering on feck all has happened regarding proper investment.
City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs.
I would advice you to go check a) transfer spending's b) wages
All this by finishing 6th. We are a commercial super power due to the commercial deals we get.
United fans are not excited because we are winning some games in preseason, we are excited because we finally are seeing some identity in our play. Press high, win the ball and attack. The other thing I saw in Inter milan game is no more aimless hoofballs are there to be seen. These are big plus. Again this could all blow up and we might be back to square one but chances of that happening is less considering a manager won't give up suddenly on what he believes in and on what he has been wanting since December.
As for people arguing that "hey we also had a great preseason under lvg". Yes we had but only RESULT WISE. If we look back even in that pre season we did not develop much identity. We did score some good goals but over the course of 90 mins we did not develop any particular identity. He was just trying to fit in players and see what worked the best. This is totally different. Again to repeat myself no one is excited because we beat Inter milan, what people like me are happy is Ole knows what he wants from his players and players so far have responded to that.
As for people arguing that "hey we also had a great preseason under lvg". Yes we had but only RESULT WISE. If we look back even in that pre season we did not develop much identity. We did score some good goals but over the course of 90 mins we did not develop any particular identity. He was just trying to fit in players and see what worked the best. This is totally different. Again to repeat myself no one is excited because we beat Inter milan, what people like me are happy is Ole knows what he wants from his players and players so far have responded to that.
why do people still entertain squishy?
Because he's much more tolerable than Glaston?
Liverpool were struggling with that until the season before last and Spurs are still struggling with it. Both those teams have been linked with variety of creative midfielders. For the next season we won't get it right every game but let's work on improving the team chemistry on the pitch and our build-up play so we can then build on that foundation to start the season after.
Yeah I can see us hitting that teams sitting back wall. It'll be nice for teams to actually fear us enough to sit back again at least, if we get there. Haven't been a consistent controlling force in games since LVG boreball days
I can understand a Spurs fan not paying much attention to pre season as a really good or bad pre season means nothing to Spurs , they win feck all either way .
The difference is neither team have Pogba. Pogba can unlock a defence who sit back or press.
It's the results you're supposed to ignore, not the performances. Preseason performances are important; results not so much.
If so, that would probably be normal. Hard to play high intensity every game for an entire season. No need to whinge if it does happen.