Kashmir

[ThatsGreat]

Due to the makeup of the present nationalist inclined Government, my initial feelings are this is social engineering. Basically to change the demographics of the Muslim-majority state.

Are you a trump supporter? Do you think America has the right to ban immigration because it'll change the demographics of the white majority country?

 

[shamans]

Classic case of selective assessment. How many KPs do you see opposing this? How many people in Jammu are wailing about the outrage? Or in Ladakh? The state of J&K isn't just the Kashmir Valley, you realize. Also, is every common citizen upset? Not really. You choose to see the political leadership of the Valley and extend it to say "locals". Sorry, but that doesn't hold. Again, this is something I've outlined above.

How do you know this? Anyway, I'm going by posts online on other forums and they certainly aren't leaders. A lot of them are really sad about it so I'm trying to understand why they would be sad about economic growth.

 

[shamans]

Are you a trump supporter? Do you think America has the right to ban immigration because it'll change the demographics of the white majority country?

America does have the right to ban immigration if they pass that bill and it gets implemented. Doesn't mean it should happen

 

[AshRK]

Why are the locals so sad about it then?

What locals? Have you spoken to all the locals or just seeing the locals whoch Pakistani media is showing the world or how the opposing leaders are crying. Ofcourse there will be some who will.oppose but there are also people/locals who have welcomed this decision. It's not full black and white. The whole impression given by opposition and Pakistan as if modi is some evil and others are saint is a joke.

 

[MJJ]

Why are the locals so sad about it then?

I am sorry but I am not aware enough to comment on what's happening in Hong Kong . All I can see is that in 2019 the Indian government should not behave in the way that it has done. It is just my view which obviously is a minority view in India right now as shown by the last elections .

I wouldn't bother debating with somebody who thinks human right violations are "Pakistani propaganda" and the brutality in kashmir can be ignored for economic growth.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Rather infantile to critique without suggesting a better (and plausible as well as feasible) alternative. I've outlined (above) the rationale for why this was the only way it would ever get done. There was no other way it would ever go through. Let me ask you this. Do you think the BSP or SP or any of the parties like the JD(U), CPM etc. ever back a proposal to remove the benefits of caste-based reservations for the "rich" among those castes? It's been proposed - and summarily rejected. Now, it is a fool's errand to think it's logically sound to back their stand - and an even bigger folly if you think that even a century of "dialogue" and "engagement" will get them to back such proposals. By logical extension therefore, it is impossible to remove reservations except by executive fiat. Do you think those communities will take it lying down? Would you not accuse a government that were to make such a fiat of gross negligence if they failed to take precautionary measures? It's the same here.

As for the UT - there are scores of reasons to make it a UT for the interim period while the region is properly assimilated.


Classic case of selective assessment. How many KPs do you see opposing this? How many people in Jammu are wailing about the outrage? Or in Ladakh? The state of J&K isn't just the Kashmir Valley, you realize. Also, is every common citizen upset? Not really. You choose to see the political leadership of the Valley and extend it to say "locals". Sorry, but that doesn't hold. Again, this is something I've outlined above.

It is not my job to come up with a better solution , as I said already I don't know enough about Kashmir to offer a solution but I can definitely see that misusing your power to bring in an amendment like this in extraordinary circumstances is not the right way in a democracy . If you think that the people in j&k are mostly in agreement then why did the government need to deploy extra forces and put up section 144 ?

 

[MJJ]

What locals? Have you spoken to all the locals or just seeing the locals whoch Pakistani media is showing the world or how the opposing leaders are crying. Ofcourse there will be some who will.oppose but there are also people/locals who have welcomed this decision. It's not full black and white. The whole impression given by opposition and Pakistan as if modi is some evil and others are saint is a joke.

Why were all the journalists kicked out of the region if it is such a peaceful transition with the locals celebrating it? Half a century of kashmiris brutally dying and you still have people like you pretending everything is fine. Atleast be honest about your motives.

 

[RedTiger]

Who's a Kashmiri on this site?

 

[MJJ]

Disagree totally. There has been ample discussions on Kashmir which has never led anywhere. There's no way Kashmiri govt will agree to voluntarily give up their ridiculous powers. And though I'm not a fan of house arrests and such, considering the volatility of the region proactive measures do seem to be the right way to go. Violence is not only anticipated but guaranteed, so these proactive steps do make sense.

Let me not see you in the trump thread calling him an idiot again pillow, that statement could belong to anyone of his supporters.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

How do you know this? Anyway, I'm going by posts online on other forums and they certainly aren't leaders. A lot of them are really sad about it so I'm trying to understand why they would be sad about economic growth.

They lose their special status, so they are not happy. There is also fear on uncertainty which comes with big changes.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Let me not see you in the trump thread calling him an idiot again pillow, that statement could belong to anyone of his supporters.

There is no relevance between both situations. There is no denying the high handed actions herein, but with violence being guaranteed, I just don't see any other options.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Who's a Kashmiri on this site?

Nobody from the Indian side I think.

 

[ThatsGreat]

America does have the right to ban immigration if they pass that bill and it gets implemented. Doesn't mean it should happen

Then why the double standards here? Are you Pakistanis, or Pakistani immigrants living in Britain? Does Britain have the right to deport you back to your country because you're changing the demographics of England? The article 370 is such a shitty addition, even immigration to countries is easier than immigrating to Kashmir. And if you 're a woman getting married to a non Kashmiri man then you lose your state citizenship? Where is there a parallel in the world to the ridiculous provisions that the article 370 had. It has more restrictions than citizenship criteria.

 

[MJJ]

There is no relevance between both situations. There is no denying the high handed actions herein, but with violence being guaranteed, I just don't see any other options.

Which is the exact same argument trump supporters make regarding the left and immigration/wall/nazis,etc. I suppose with enough time you lot will start justifying the gujrat riots too although tulsi had already started a few years back.

 

[RedTiger]

Nobody from the Indian side I think.

I could have sworn there was bro

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Which is the exact same argument trump supporters make regarding the left and immigration/wall/nazis,etc. I suppose with enough time you lot will start justifying the gujrat riots too although tulsi had already started a few years back.

Such blatant shit stirring

Kashmir will have same laws as rest of India. Surely there's nothing bad in that!

 

[MJJ]

Then why the double standards here? Are you Pakistanis, or Pakistani immigrants living in Britain? Does Britain have the right to deport you back to your country because you're changing the demographics of England? The article 370 is such a shitty addition, even immigration to countries is easier than immigrating to Kashmir. And if you 're a woman getting married to a non Kashmiri man then you lose your state citizenship? Where is there a parallel in the world to the ridiculous provisions that the article 370 had. It has more restrictions than citizenship criteria.

Article 370 forms the legal basis of kashmir accession to India which is what you are ignoring here. it is just another step towards hinduvta which started by changing street names from muslim to hindu and is now continuing.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Amit Shah has proclaimed that this move will put an end to bloodshed in the region. Highly highly skeptical of that.

 

[The Man Himself]

When BJP added article 370 again in 2019 election manifesto, a Congress leader called it 'Jumla manifesto' and they were laughing. Omar Abdullah retweeted it. Not laughing anymore, I guess.

There should be more discussions? It takes two sides to have discussions. BJP has kept article 370 in it's manifesto since 1984. Why no non-BJP govt or party took it up for discussion seriously till date if voice of everyone is to be heard? That's right. It's because BJP had 2 seats in parliament in 1984. Well now it has 303 on it's own. Party has persevered on it's core issues in journey from 2 to 303 and acted on one of it immediately when they got numbers. Very happy. Hopefully Kashmir sees development now and Kashmiri Pandits get to return to their rightful home.

Next stop, hopefully, something more tricky.. Uniform Civil Code.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Nobody from the Indian side I think.

My gotra is Sandilya, who is said to hail from the Kashmir area, does that count . (gotra establishes descendancy from the first settlers of the indian landmass)

 

[MJJ]

Such blatant shit stirring

Kashmir will have same laws as rest of India. Surely there's nothing bad in that!

Are you seriously telling me there is nothing bad in people being put under house arrest, additional military being deployed to kill more kashmiris, using cluster bombs? There is a reason you guys started by kickign all the journalists out.

But yeah I like how pointing out the fate of kashmiris is just "shit stirring". Just another step towards india being a fascist state.

 

[shamans]

They lose their special status, so they are not happy. There is also fear on uncertainty which comes with big changes.

That makes more sense then "this will be a big economic boost" because it doesn't add up.

 

[ThatsGreat]

When BJP added article 370 again in 2019 election manifesto, a Congress leader called it 'Jumla manifesto' and they were laughing. Omar Abdullah retweeted it. Not laughing anymore, I guess.

Its so stupid to call the Modi government a jumla party. They always make an attempt to fulfill their promises, even if the implementation may leave a lot to be desired(demonetisation).

 

[MDFC Manager]

My gotra is Sandilya, who is said to hail from the Kashmir area, does that count . (gotra establishes descendancy from the first settlers of the indian landmass)

Nope

I've got a kashmiri neighbour. Let me check with him on his views.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

That makes more sense then "this will be a big economic boost" because it doesn't add up.

When Kashmir is opened up and can fully monetize the tourism revenue, you'll see a economic boost. It has potential to be economic powerhouse.

 

[MDFC Manager]

That makes more sense then "this will be a big economic boost" because it doesn't add up.

Some Kashmiris are going to get very rich once land buying gets allowed. Tourism will almost certainly boom.

 

[AshRK]

My Kashmiri mate who is a muslim by the way is happy with it and so are his family and so are his most of the friends. He says there are some who are sad the way it was done but they are happy with the results as never in 70 years any Indian PM wanted to discuss this let alone had the balls to implement such a move so they are happy someone is finally doing the right thing.
And then there are many kashmiri pandits who are extremely happy with this decision. So for those clamiming locals are distraught with it are either just watching too much of congress' views or are just bitter.

 

[shamans]

My Kashmiri mate who is a muslim by the way is happy with it and so are his family and so are his most of the friends. He says there are some who are sad the way it was done but they are happy with the results as never in 70 years any Indian PM wanted to discuss this let alone had the balls to implement such a move so they are happy someone is finally doing the right thing.
And then there are many kashmiri pandits who are extremely happy with this decision. So for those clamiming locals are distraught with it are either just watching too much of congress' views or are just bitter.

So wait a minute, your friend himself said some people are unhappy too I guess they are just bitter?

 

[shamans]

When Kashmir is opened up and can fully monetize the tourism revenue, you'll see a economic boost. It has potential to be economic powerhouse.

There will just be more unrest I think

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Some Kashmiris are going to get very rich once land buying gets allowed. Tourism will almost certainly boom.

It's not as straight forward as that though . This move won't change the fact that terrorism is a huge issue there and so is the huge Army presence

 

[MJJ]

My Kashmiri mate who is a muslim by the way is happy with it and so are his family and so are his most of the friends. He says there are some who are sad the way it was done but they are happy with the results as never in 70 years any Indian PM wanted to discuss this let alone had the balls to implement such a move so they are happy someone is finally doing the right thing.
And then there are many kashmiri pandits who are extremely happy with this decision. So for those clamiming locals are distraught with it are either just watching too much of congress' views or are just bitter.

Going full rawkish here

 

[RedTiger]

My gotra is Sandilya, who is said to hail from the Kashmir area, does that count . (gotra establishes descendancy from the first settlers of the indian landmass)

Do you speak any of the indigenous languages of J&K?

 

[MJJ]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Add this to the troops deployed, journalist kicked out and people put under house arrest.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

There will just be more unrest I think

Yes, sadly so. But it should eventually resolve itself.

 

[MDFC Manager]

It's not as straight forward as that though . This move won't change the fact that terrorism is a huge issue there and so is the huge Army presence

I know. Hence why I think Shah's claim of this ending terrorism to be utter bullshit. But I'm also certain that economic development is now bound to happen

 

[MJJ]

The decision to eliminate the state of Jammu & Kashmir by legislative decree was made in absolute secrecy, and will be executed in absolute darkness.

Thousands of troops have been deployed on the streets, opposition leaders have been put under house arrest with a midnight knock on their doors, the internet has been blacked out, and phone lines have been severed.

The only inkling of the government’s moves came from a chance photograph, snapped as home minister Amit Shah entered Parliament this morning, August 5 2019.

A neat Excel sheet laid out a checklist for Kashmir’s erasure:

“Inform the President —— Done”, the checklist read, under the sub-head, titled ‘Constitutional’. “Inform the Vice President —— Done.” There was a cabinet meeting, and then the bill was brought before Parliament, where a noisy but largely ineffectual Opposition was given an hour to deliberate the redrawing of India’s political map.

For the latest news and more, follow HuffPost India on Twitter, Facebook, and subscribe to our newsletter.

If all goes as planned, and there is little sign it won’t, the state of Jammu and Kashmir will be replaced by two union territories — one with a legislature subservient to a puppet governor, and one with just a puppet governor.

What of the Kashmiris? Where do they appear in Amit Shah’s checklist? Way down on point number 14 and 15 under “Law and Order”.

While Point 14 calls for the Home Secretary to make his way down to a state that has been amputated into a colony administered by New Delhi, Point 15 reveals that colonising one’s own territories carries an attendant risk: “Possibility of violent disobedience amongst sections of uniformed personnel.”

Kashmir is the boundary condition of Indian democracy; and as of now, democracy is dead in the darkness.

Glad to see some people in india still have their morality.

https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry...ARxjD4jXyeSv90B5yVYE2TIPY1Xr0UuP5DqG3tDwYsdlE

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Add this to the troops deployed, journalist kicked out and people put under house arrest.

Give it a break. Things should return to normal soon....as long as foreign terrorists do not destabilize the region using this opportunity.

 

[MJJ]

Give it a break. Things should return to normal soon....as long as foreign terrorists do not destabilize the region using this opportunity.

The normal being innocent kashmiris being killed at every excused? its funny how you are such a white knight in the trump thread but are willing to ignore the abuse done in Kashmire by Indian police.

It must be so convenient to blame everything on foreign terrorists or pakistan. I guess that is one way to justify murder. Trump for all his faults is atleast honest about his racism.

Mounting rights abuses and political disengagement could push more young people towards militancy in Indian-administered Kashmir, residents warn, following some of the deadliest violence the troubled region has seen in a decade.

Last year was Kashmir’s deadliest since 2008 and the bloodshed has worsened since.

The Jammu Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society (JKCCS), a local rights group, says more than 586 people were killed in 2018, including militants, Indian security forces, and 160 civilians. The Indian government puts the civilian death toll at 37. This year is already threatening to surpass the last: the rights group recorded 162 total deaths from January until March.

https://www.thenewhumanitarian.org/news/2019/06/11/kashmir-s-decade-high-death-toll-warning-sign

 

[ThatsGreat]

Glad to see some people in india still have their morality.

https://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry...ARxjD4jXyeSv90B5yVYE2TIPY1Xr0UuP5DqG3tDwYsdlE

Yes, we have our morality, we're not a banana republic like Pakistan. This decision will most likely get challenged in the courts.

 

[MJJ]

Yes, we have our morality, we're not a banana republic like Pakistan. This decision will most likely get challenged in the courts.

Then why are you celebrating it? Should you not be protesting it? And I am not sure, for all our faults we are turning towards democracy just as you guys are turning away from it. Enjoy living in a fascist society.

The logical leaps needed to celebrate a decision and then be proud of the fact that it will be challenged in courts Surely its easier to accept who you are?