wr8_utd
:'(
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2008
- Messages
- 38,488
3 Idiots already did that.I think Ladakh will benefit the most because of this decision but also feel a lot of natural beauty of Ladakh will go away due to commercialisation of the place
3 Idiots already did that.I think Ladakh will benefit the most because of this decision but also feel a lot of natural beauty of Ladakh will go away due to commercialisation of the place
Really? Nothing even remotely close to that is going to happen.Hold on for the worlds first nuclear war where both parties have nukes.
Eh? So, India did the wrong thing earlier in J&K, doing the right (different) thing in Hyd. Now, India is doing in J&K what it did in Hyd. But this is still wrong? You seem confused, mate.No? We are solidifying the wrong thing we did m
It says more about Pakistan than anyone else if the country sees this as a reason to declare a nuclear war. If anything, India has just created a system which will allow Kashmir to actually get investments and grow economically, creating employment etc.Hold on for the worlds first nuclear war where both parties have nukes.
Of course it isn't, and in any conventional war India would easily defeat Pakistan, there's really no equality in their ability to project forceReally? Nothing even remotely close to that is going to happen.
Very pertinent questionWonder if @VidaRed is celebrating this or not...
And Uttarakhand.It’s same in Himachal,Arunachal,Mizoram,Manipur and Nagaland. So why just revoke from Kashmir?
Im okay with scrapping art 370.Wonder if @VidaRed is celebrating this or not...
Is that why all the journalists have been kicked out? The political parties put under house arrest, all communication banned and using cluster bombs (in violation of geneva convention)? Not to mention the deployment of thousands of troops.Eh? So, India did the wrong thing earlier in J&K, doing the right (different) thing in Hyd. Now, India is doing in J&K what it did in Hyd. But this is still wrong? You seem confused, mate.
It says more about Pakistan than anyone else if the country sees this as a reason to declare a nuclear war. If anything, India has just created a system which will allow Kashmir to actually get investments and grow economically, creating employment etc.
If this is something that dismays Pakistan, well, then it should be clear where their priorities lie.
Eh? I'm from there - and there's no such restriction. Anyone can come and go, set up shop etc.And Uttarakhand.
I'm going to ignore the blatant Pakistani propaganda parts here and comment solely on the economic issues. The state can only grow with investment and investment has to come perforce from outside the state. That creates jobs and a sustainable economy. So yes, the abrogation of these articles will help in changing the demographics - most specifically the income demographic - of the state for the better.Is that why all the journalists have been kicked out? The political parties put under house arrest, all communication banned and using cluster bombs (in violation of geneva convention)? Not to mention the deployment of thousands of troops.
What is the equivalent of the nizam in j&k today? Who is the unelected king suppressing his own population?Eh? So, India did the wrong thing earlier in J&K, doing the right (different) thing in Hyd. Now, India is doing in J&K what it did in Hyd. .
As long as the people that are dying are not related to you, it's okay to look at the economic issues. I like how racists and the right use terms like this to justify horrible acts. Protect our borders= separate kids from their parents and lock them up in inhumane conditions. Brutalize a whole population for 50 years and now crank up the troops and the killings to change the demographic= economic growth.I'm going to ignore the blatant Pakistani propaganda parts here and comment solely on the economic issues. The state can only grow with investment and investment has to come perforce from outside the state. That creates jobs and a sustainable economy. So yes, the abrogation of these articles will help in changing the demographics - most specifically the income demographic - of the state for the better.
This is from the notorious pakistani website, the financial times. I suppose its easier to sleep at night if everything can be attributed to Pakistani propaganda.The abolition of Article 370 is likely to cause outrage and fury in Kashmir, where residents were put under total lockdown early Monday morning, barred from moving their homes, and with internet, telephones and cable television services cut off. Tens of thousands of extra troops and paramilitary police have also been dispatched to maintain order in the region, already one of the most heavily militarised in the world, and additional forces were being airlifted in on Monday by the Indian air force. The decision will have far-reaching and dangerous consequences Omar Abdullah, former chief minister of Jammu & Kashmir More than 20,000 Indian and foreign tourist were also evacuated from the region over the weekend, while schools and colleges have been ordered to close indefinitely.
Mehbhooba Mufti, a former chief minister of Jammu & Kashmir, said the government’s stealth move marked “the darkest day in Indian democracy . . . [the] unilateral decision to scrap article 370 is illegal and unconstitutional, which will make India an occupational force in J & K”. Omar Abdullah, also a former chief minister of the state, called the move “a total betrayal of the trust the people of Jammu & Kashmir had reposed in India when the state acceded to it in 1947. The decision will have far-reaching and dangerous consequences.”
Serious question? 370 and 35A. While the rest of the country saw the benefits of investment and growth and employment-generation, J&K saw none of it, owing to their restrictions on "citizenship". The employment crisis there plays a major role in the discontent. Yet, while they want the Center to do more, what more can the Center do with 370 and 35A pretty much ensuring nothing can be done? The state got more subsidies, funds and grants than any other - but could do nothing with it. While HP, Sikkim and UK developed through tax sops that drove private investments, J&K can't offer any of that.What is the equivalent of the nizam in j&k today? Who is the unelected king suppressing his own population?
Only residential/commercial in urban areas and that to has a limit. I wanted farm land had to take permission and go through the red tape, the process is still on! Money has been given and permission has still not arrived.Eh? I'm from there - and there's no such restriction. Anyone can come and go, set up shop etc.
Restrictions on farm land are not because of status of the state alone. There are loads of states which have laws that allow agricultural land to be purchased only by farmers etc. Completely different issue. Anyone can set up business there. The processes are clearly defined. This is completely different from a state like J&K (formerly) where the process was clearly defined as, "It doesn't matter what you want - you can't have it anyway".Only residential/commercial in urban areas and that to has a limit. I wanted farm land had to take permission and go through the red tape, the process is still on! Money has been given and permission has still not arrived.
ThisDue to the makeup of the present nationalist inclined Government, my initial feelings are this is social engineering. Basically to change the demographics of the Muslim-majority state.
Bull shit, terrorism in 89 did that when terrorist forced the people of other religions to convert or flee or die.Due to the makeup of the present nationalist inclined Government, my initial feelings are this is social engineering. Basically to change the demographics of the Muslim-majority state.
Irrelevant. The debate over these has been on for decades. There are numerous PILs already in the Courts and the PDP and NC (the two regional parties from the Valley) made it clear they'd not even discuss removal. This hits their ability to control minds and population as well. For those who don't know, Article 35A literally (literally) allows the State of J&K to pass discriminatory laws without the ability of citizens to challenge said discrimination as being constitutionally wrong! The Article was never voted upon - but just implemented vide a Presidential decree - and no, it had nothing to do with the terms of accession. In such an environment, either one could have continued with meaningless debate for several more decades or one bites the bullet and does what is right.Not sure how this will affect the average Kashmiri but the way it has been implemented has left a bad taste. A blackout and arresting the leaders is bang out of order. A debate with the leaders and actually considering the input of Kashmiri citizens should have been the way foward, instead of surrounding the area with the army. Dont like the path down which India is going. The bloodlust of the sanghi crowd is very scary. Fascist government doing Fascist things.
Demographic change is needed in Jammu and Kashmir - economically, most of all. Why do we not hail Brexit and Trump's proposed Muslim ban? Because free movement of people should be encouraged. Why the need to "protect" an artificial edifice? The religious make-up of the population should be irrelevant in the face of the economic make-up. We should all be hoping that the state and all its citizens can get employment and rise up the demographic strata. Why be afraid that lifting restrictions will encourage the migration of non-Muslims into Kashmir? How'd you feel if Hindu-majority states or Christian-majority states (like the NE) started insisting on similar restrictions and on making them permanent?Due to the makeup of the present nationalist inclined Government, my initial feelings are this is social engineering. Basically to change the demographics of the Muslim-majority state.
Yeah. KPs everywhere celebrating the decision. Am very close to the community obviously; they're unanimously delighted with this. The media narrative - specially the overseas media, but also the domestic one to a great extent - completely ignores the genocide of the KPs and the horrors they faced.Bull shit, terrorism in 89 did that when terrorist forced the people of other religions to convert or flee or die.
What would the "right way" have been though? It's easy to criticize this as "high-handed", but do you really think any Kashmiri party would ever have agreed to give up the outrageous power that these articles bestowed upon them? Here are some of the things they were able to do:Tweet
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I agree 100% with this. It's an absolutely right decision but they've gone about it in a wrong way(IMO ofcourse). This required big balls so fair play to BJP.
Very good post. People saying it should have done in a right way. What is the other right way, asking omar Abdullah or mehmooba mufti the two goons who want to run Kashmir their way and live chaos. As if they would have agreed anything. A lot of innocent people would have further died and a mass riot would have happened. Now congress and other opposing parties are left toothless and have lost any power to cause any chaos. Good decision by Modi govt.What would the "right way" have been though? It's easy to criticize this as "high-handed", but do you really think any Kashmiri party would ever have agreed to give up the outrageous power that these articles bestowed upon them? Here are some of the things they were able to do:
1. Get the highest (by far) share of grants and subsidies
2. Ensure they could actually control the voting population
3. Suspend delimitation to prevent changing demographics (higher population increase in Jammu) from affecting their ability to control power from the Valley
4. Systematically reduce specific demographic groups using the citizenship card and their undisputed right to define citizens of Kashmir
5. Ensured complete immunity and opacity for themselves by refusing even things like RTI
And this is just scratching the surface. There's so much they have continued to block for so long! Simple fact is - the politicians from the Valley got too much power from these articles. They'd never have voluntarily agreed to even suspend these partially. E.g. there was a proposal to allow partial usage of land for non-citizens - like taking land for industry as they do in the NE, UK or HP. Summarily dismissed by the State politicians - as it would change "Kashmiriyat". There really was no other way than brute force to get this through. And like you too accept, this is the right move.
It's interesting and insightful that nobody that is opposing the "means" used has come up with a viable alternative. It's sad - but that's the way it is.
So you advocate what's happening in Hongkong in terms of social security situation should be allowed to happen in this case?This thread makes me a bit sad. I am not sure whether 370 going would change stuff or not but no way should the ends justify the means. The government of India acted in a shambolic manner and just like with demonetisaton the idea shouldn't be used to overlook the fact that for absolutely no reason what so ever the government enforced a curfew in a whole state and took away phones & internet . There is also no logical explanation for J&K becoming a UT.
Why are the locals so sad about it then?I'm going to ignore the blatant Pakistani propaganda parts here and comment solely on the economic issues. The state can only grow with investment and investment has to come perforce from outside the state. That creates jobs and a sustainable economy. So yes, the abrogation of these articles will help in changing the demographics - most specifically the income demographic - of the state for the better.
Disagree totally. There has been ample discussions on Kashmir which has never led anywhere. There's no way Kashmiri govt will agree to voluntarily give up their ridiculous powers. And though I'm not a fan of house arrests and such, considering the volatility of the region proactive measures do seem to be the right way to go. Violence is not only anticipated but guaranteed, so these proactive steps do make sense.Not sure how this will affect the average Kashmiri but the way it has been implemented has left a bad taste. A blackout and arresting the leaders is bang out of order. A debate with the leaders and actually considering the input of Kashmiri citizens should have been the way foward, instead of surrounding the area with the army. Dont like the path down which India is going. The bloodlust of the sanghi crowd is very scary. Fascist government doing Fascist things.
Rather infantile to critique without suggesting a better (and plausible as well as feasible) alternative. I've outlined (above) the rationale for why this was the only way it would ever get done. There was no other way it would ever go through. Let me ask you this. Do you think the BSP or SP or any of the parties like the JD(U), CPM etc. ever back a proposal to remove the benefits of caste-based reservations for the "rich" among those castes? It's been proposed - and summarily rejected. Now, it is a fool's errand to think it's logically sound to back their stand - and an even bigger folly if you think that even a century of "dialogue" and "engagement" will get them to back such proposals. By logical extension therefore, it is impossible to remove reservations except by executive fiat. Do you think those communities will take it lying down? Would you not accuse a government that were to make such a fiat of gross negligence if they failed to take precautionary measures? It's the same here.This thread makes me a bit sad. I am not sure whether 370 going would change stuff or not but no way should the ends justify the means. The government of India acted in a shambolic manner and just like with demonetisaton the idea shouldn't be used to overlook the fact that for absolutely no reason what so ever the government enforced a curfew in a whole state and took away phones & internet . There is also no logical explanation for J&K becoming a UT.
Classic case of selective assessment. How many KPs do you see opposing this? How many people in Jammu are wailing about the outrage? Or in Ladakh? The state of J&K isn't just the Kashmir Valley, you realize. Also, is every common citizen upset? Not really. You choose to see the political leadership of the Valley and extend it to say "locals". Sorry, but that doesn't hold. Again, this is something I've outlined above.Why are the locals so sad about it then?
I am sorry but I am not aware enough to comment on what's happening in Hong Kong . All I can see is that in 2019 the Indian government should not behave in the way that it has done. It is just my view which obviously is a minority view in India right now as shown by the last elections .So you advocate what's happening in Hongkong in terms of social security situation should be allowed to happen in this case?
You've answered my question with the quality of your response.Bull shit.
Go on! I'd like to know what alternative you had in mind - which as I said had a plausible and feasible chance of achieving the same ends.I am sorry but I am not aware enough to comment on what's happening in Hong Kong . All I can see is that in 2019 the Indian government should not behave in the way that it has done. It is just my view which obviously is a minority view in India right now as shown by the last elections .