Lukaku was featured in the team that went on that miserable run at the end of last season. If that clueless attack continues this season it won't specifically be because of his absence.
How have we strengthened one area of the team whilst simultaneously weakening midfield and attack?
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Nice logic, does that mean we dont need a striker? Ok lets just remain clueless in attack. Oh and in midfield.
How many league goals or appearances do these attackers have to their names? On paper this is the 10th best attack in the league. Rashford ended with 3 goals in his last 17 even playing CF. Martial did nothing under Olé last season and has 1 in 4 as a CF, and barely played there for a year. Greenwood, Chong and Gomes have 3 1st team appearances. Not even a loan spell to go by. James has no EPL track record. Jesse and Sanchez have NEVER delivered. So essentially in our attack we have 7 players who have not delivered at this level, many of whom have never played. This ain't youth team football. This is big leagues
Lukaku is irrelevant loss as a player but we've taken in 75m for him and then turned around and spent 10m on his replacement (I assume Mandzukic is coming). Where has the rest of it gone? To fund Maguire, AWB and James? If so where's our actual budget?
We've lost a key midfielder in Herrera and decided not to replace him. We've also once again completely failed to address our longstanding issue at right wing. When the feck are we actually gonna have a balanced team instead of wheelchair Mata or Lingard doing nothing on the right wing every week?
We've lost a key midfielder in Herrera and decided not to replace him. We've also once again completely failed to address our longstanding issue at right wing. When the feck are we actually gonna have a balanced team instead of wheelchair Mata or Lingard doing nothing on the right wing every week?
A lot of them weren't that inexperienced either. Butt and Neville both made a fair few appearances the previous season. Giggs had been in the first team for a couple of seasons at that point. Lee Sharpe was probably intended as our winger at the start of the season with Beckham as cover. So your talking about dropping 2 inexperienced players into a great team. P. Neville and Scholes weren't really involved most of that season.
The modern equivalent would be using McTominay or Dalot in the first team and getting a pile of proven, experienced, quality around them. Not dropping players with one appearance in a team with Rashford, McTominay and Shaw which is frankly a crap plan unless our aim is to stay in the top half of the table.
This is our depth of players playing in their best positions in the system it looks like Ole wants us to play in:
Obviously there are players who can slot in for other positions but we really have nobody but Chong who is a natural right sided attacker. As promising as they are, it's probably a stretch to expect Gomes and Greenwood to come good this year as well.
Our first choice back 5 is good but apart from Romero, we're gambling on not getting major issues to AWB, Lindelof or Maguire and we're banjaxed if Shaw goes down.
We could currently field a full XI of players who aren't really good enough to be at the club and never will be:
That said, I don't fully buy into this idea that you can't successfully make wholesale changes in one window. Two summers ago, City brought in a goal keeper, two right backs, a centre back, a left back, a right winger and a central midfielder - all for their first team squad. They went on to win the title that year and retain it the next, making only one significant signing during the middle summer.
I think not being in the Champions League has made it much more difficult for us. We are forced to spend stupid money, partly because of us being Manchester United but also partly because of our own stupid actions in the transfer market over the last decade. The sort of players we need, want to be playing in the Champions League and the sort of personalities who will sacrifice that for money, we can do without.
I think we should have made more of an effort to sign a promising, ambitious young midfielder and then could have lived with waiting a year for Sancho if that is the plan. There aren't many right wingers who would have fit the profile we need and were available this summer so I can understand that decision.
Top Four has to be the overriding focus this year, even to the extent of blooding young players in the Europa League and two domestic cups. We don't have the squad to compete on four fronts and without Champions League football, we can't hope to build it.
Feck me this turned into a novel. Anyone who read this far deserves a sainthood for patience.
Edit: Garner should probably be in the other midfield position on that squad list.
Obviously there are players who can slot in for other positions but we really have nobody but Chong who is a natural right sided attacker. As promising as they are, it's probably a stretch to expect Gomes and Greenwood to come good this year as well.
Our first choice back 5 is good but apart from Romero, we're gambling on not getting major issues to AWB, Lindelof or Maguire and we're banjaxed if Shaw goes down.
We could currently field a full XI of players who aren't really good enough to be at the club and never will be:
Grant
Darmian Jones Bailly Rojo
Matic
Lingard - Mata -
Young ---------- Sanchez
Lukaku
I'm encouraged by the signings Ole is making and the way he wants to set the team up to play. I didn't really expect us to fix the entire squad this summer and my expectations aren't super high going in to the new season. This is just a brutally honest assessment of how good the squad is and how far away we are. We need an enormous amount of good fortune (on the injury front and in two or three of our talented youngsters all breaking through with a bang this season) if we're going to have a successful year.Darmian Jones Bailly Rojo
Matic
Lingard - Mata -
Young ---------- Sanchez
Lukaku
That said, I don't fully buy into this idea that you can't successfully make wholesale changes in one window. Two summers ago, City brought in a goal keeper, two right backs, a centre back, a left back, a right winger and a central midfielder - all for their first team squad. They went on to win the title that year and retain it the next, making only one significant signing during the middle summer.
I think not being in the Champions League has made it much more difficult for us. We are forced to spend stupid money, partly because of us being Manchester United but also partly because of our own stupid actions in the transfer market over the last decade. The sort of players we need, want to be playing in the Champions League and the sort of personalities who will sacrifice that for money, we can do without.
I think we should have made more of an effort to sign a promising, ambitious young midfielder and then could have lived with waiting a year for Sancho if that is the plan. There aren't many right wingers who would have fit the profile we need and were available this summer so I can understand that decision.
Top Four has to be the overriding focus this year, even to the extent of blooding young players in the Europa League and two domestic cups. We don't have the squad to compete on four fronts and without Champions League football, we can't hope to build it.
Feck me this turned into a novel. Anyone who read this far deserves a sainthood for patience.
Edit: Garner should probably be in the other midfield position on that squad list.
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What are you talking about? How did you even interpret that as what I was trying to say? There are different sub-points being discussed in this thread
This is a huge risk we are taking now. I don't mind Ole believing Rashford and Martial will step up and lead the attack but the depth is worrying.
Both will be part of our strongest 11. So we have to rely on Sanchez who has failed for 1.5 seasons and then Greenwood who is still just 17.
I'm worried that we are not adding any more players, we will play minimum 46 games and maximum is around 65-67 games. Assuming it's 50+ we will struggle with depth. Ole admitted he made a mistake by not rotating much last season, we might have same problem this season too.
I'm worried and at the same time can't say I'm not excited. It's a risk and if everything works out then we will have very good team.
Working out means Greenwood, Gomes becoming regular players and showing their class for first team.
Both will be part of our strongest 11. So we have to rely on Sanchez who has failed for 1.5 seasons and then Greenwood who is still just 17.
I'm worried that we are not adding any more players, we will play minimum 46 games and maximum is around 65-67 games. Assuming it's 50+ we will struggle with depth. Ole admitted he made a mistake by not rotating much last season, we might have same problem this season too.
I'm worried and at the same time can't say I'm not excited. It's a risk and if everything works out then we will have very good team.
Working out means Greenwood, Gomes becoming regular players and showing their class for first team.
I've just been watching that highlights clip on Youtube of Gomes yesterday against Rotherham. I know they're not even in the Championship anymore but they're still grown men who were trying to kick the hole off him and he not only fronted up - he embarrassed them!
And people blame Pogba for wanting to leave.
Unfortunately I can see it ending in one way only, with our CEO of the year pulling the trigger on Ole around December and making another panic signing a-la Sanchez.
People have absolutely no concept about team building and how it works. They want OGS to get everything right instantly. The young players will get their chance but more importantly the style of play (in our case the pressing game) will give us more points especially when coupled with a strong back line.
this is what I meanNot buying players for CM and a dedicated RW is idiocy of the highest order.
The RW issue has gone on and on for seasons now. I have no idea why it’s been allowed to fester.
I really have no answer as to why these issues have been left as they have.
The RW issue has gone on and on for seasons now. I have no idea why it’s been allowed to fester.
I really have no answer as to why these issues have been left as they have.
Comparing to last season:
We're clearly going for a 4-2-3-1 type formation, so a depth chart will/should look like this:
GK: De Gea, Romero, Grant
RB: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Darmian
CB: Maguire, Smalling, Jones
CB: Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Bailly
LB: Shaw, Young, Rojo
CDM: McTominay, Matic, Garner
CM: Pogba, Fred, Pereira
#10: Lingard, Mata, Gomes
RW: James, Greenwood
LW: Rashford/Martial, Chong
ST: Martial/Rashford, Sanchez
Decent amount who are versatile and just fill in other positions, but I'd be very happy if we're just keeping the attacking depth trim in order to give enough chances between Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, as they are all very special young players and all will be pushing to play this season. Sometimes you just have to give those chances, take the hit in consistency that comes with it, and come out much, much better instead of panic signing someone who could block them (what I felt was a big issue with Lukaku from day 1, when we had Martial and Rashford as younger players who will want to play).
It's far from a world class team, and next summer I would really hope Grant, Darmian, probably Bailly, Rojo, Matic and Sanchez are all gone, while Mata is severely phased out and is more of a coach at that point. Of those, it's not like we'd have to make a lot of signings to replace. A midfielder, and we'll go all out for Sancho of course, but nothing really past that IMO.
- Massively improved our biggest issue, our defence
- McTominay an upgrade on Matic last season, no replacement for Herrera so overall downgrade
- Attack upgraded by just having more attacking tactics, presumably happier Pogba/Martial/Rashford over a season, young attackers getting older, etc. Don't think Lukaku leaving will have much of an impact. He was woeful for us last season anyway, and even in the first where he scored a lot of goals, his overall play held us back and often times was a nuisance
We're clearly going for a 4-2-3-1 type formation, so a depth chart will/should look like this:
GK: De Gea, Romero, Grant
RB: Wan Bissaka, Dalot, Darmian
CB: Maguire, Smalling, Jones
CB: Lindelof, Tuanzebe, Bailly
LB: Shaw, Young, Rojo
CDM: McTominay, Matic, Garner
CM: Pogba, Fred, Pereira
#10: Lingard, Mata, Gomes
RW: James, Greenwood
LW: Rashford/Martial, Chong
ST: Martial/Rashford, Sanchez
Decent amount who are versatile and just fill in other positions, but I'd be very happy if we're just keeping the attacking depth trim in order to give enough chances between Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, as they are all very special young players and all will be pushing to play this season. Sometimes you just have to give those chances, take the hit in consistency that comes with it, and come out much, much better instead of panic signing someone who could block them (what I felt was a big issue with Lukaku from day 1, when we had Martial and Rashford as younger players who will want to play).
It's far from a world class team, and next summer I would really hope Grant, Darmian, probably Bailly, Rojo, Matic and Sanchez are all gone, while Mata is severely phased out and is more of a coach at that point. Of those, it's not like we'd have to make a lot of signings to replace. A midfielder, and we'll go all out for Sancho of course, but nothing really past that IMO.
Yeah watched that game live and he was very good. Said it few times, looks like he has no problem dealing with physicality.
Change that to Woodward. Ole has already identified the problem areas, but the transfers are all out of his hand when Woodward and Judge are taking the piss every window.
Provided he is not injured himself as usual
Interesting points, but Rojo is not a fullback.
Its 3rd choice left back in a straight depth chart where I'm not using players in multiple positions, so put him there because we have 6 CBs ahead of him
Greenwood replacing Lukaku is an upgrade in my opinion.
It’s only the modified where the problem is. Apart from Pogba, who sulk quite often, we have no one else who can rely on. We are in big trouble there.
It’s only the modified where the problem is. Apart from Pogba, who sulk quite often, we have no one else who can rely on. We are in big trouble there.
This is a good post.
We could end up signing Mandzukic so there’s further depth now for the striker position.
I’m looking forward to seeing Greenwood, Chong and Gomes get time this season. As you said, we’ll probably go for a midfielder, most likely Longstaff again, Sancho and I could see left back cover being brought in if Young moves on or retires. The #10 position is there for the taking for Gomes, but I could see us trying for Maddison.
The owners are tightening the purse strings again rather than spend what is required to get us back to the top. We should have strenghened midfield and the player to do that looks likely to be going to spurs. We are losing Lukaku and relying on youth so we dont have to spend any money replacing him. Woody will blame Ole when it goes tits up again and we will get some other manager in. Woody will promise the world to the fans and leak stories about us going for players we need while not really trying to get them. The next manager will fail and get the sack and so it goes on. Groundhog day.
This is probably one of the worst transfer windows in God knows how long
The only transfers that were promptly and properly were the ones of James and AVB. Even with Maguire there wqas a whole saga that lasted for weeks.
We were unable to buy any proper midfielder or forward. Pathetic, I'm furious
And remember the rumors that we would strengthen our squad with 5-6 players
The only transfers that were promptly and properly were the ones of James and AVB. Even with Maguire there wqas a whole saga that lasted for weeks.
We were unable to buy any proper midfielder or forward. Pathetic, I'm furious
And remember the rumors that we would strengthen our squad with 5-6 players
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Agree with this 100%.
If Pogba goes down injured or doesn't fancy it this season, we are in for a rude awakening against "smaller clubs" who have far better midfields. Wolves, Leicester and Everton for example have more depth then we do.
On the right wing, it's the one thing I continue to bang on about. We have a grand total of ZERO recognised first team players who class the right wing as their favoured position. It is a horrendous lack of planning and I can't out for the life of me understand why we continue to let it happen.
No, we want the club to operate highly professional and invest where we have obvious weaknesses. Now all our hope will be on Ole and the youngsters to step up big time which is not fair
Yes. Yes we have.
Losing Herrera & Lukaku with no replacements is shambolic to be honest. We have a novice manager with no style of play & have weakened quality of our squad while others have strengthened
Losing Herrera & Lukaku with no replacements is shambolic to be honest. We have a novice manager with no style of play & have weakened quality of our squad while others have strengthened
We don’t have a pressing game. Under Ole we were the ones having least possession often (even against mid table teams)
We haven't. We signed at least one defender in every single one of the last six summer windows.
I am very worried about goals.
When Ole came in we were banging them in for fun, but - and correct me if i'm wrong - I remember a lot of this was due to us being very, very clinical. Seem to recall our XG was the highest (lowest?) in the league during that time or something like that.
Then when the wheels came off after the Arsenal game we managed to score 5 goals from open play in 11 games... and it's not like we were creating much in that time either.
Now for balance sake we did score 33 goals excluding pens in the prior 14 games (in that happy/clinical phase) - and Lukaku was our top scorer in that period with 8 goals... who we have now sold and looks like we won't replace adequately.
Yes we have Greenwood and Gomes coming through, but it is a bit much to be expecting a new burst of goals and creativity to come from teenagers, who will be patchy anyway due to the fact that they are teenagers.
So yeah... goals...
When Ole came in we were banging them in for fun, but - and correct me if i'm wrong - I remember a lot of this was due to us being very, very clinical. Seem to recall our XG was the highest (lowest?) in the league during that time or something like that.
Then when the wheels came off after the Arsenal game we managed to score 5 goals from open play in 11 games... and it's not like we were creating much in that time either.
Now for balance sake we did score 33 goals excluding pens in the prior 14 games (in that happy/clinical phase) - and Lukaku was our top scorer in that period with 8 goals... who we have now sold and looks like we won't replace adequately.
Yes we have Greenwood and Gomes coming through, but it is a bit much to be expecting a new burst of goals and creativity to come from teenagers, who will be patchy anyway due to the fact that they are teenagers.
So yeah... goals...
It definitely is a concern, personally I think we should have gotten in one more experienced attacker, but I hope that we can actually create more chances that will mean that we can afford to miss a few, particularly with hopefully a more solid defence. I think we're previously been a team who've let other teams have the ball and hopefully now we're going to try to be on the front foot more. We're clearly gambling on Rashford/Martial really stepping up this season though. Both have the talent to do so, particularly with Martial he should get more goals than he does, but it is definitely a gamble but I think that's what we're doing across the board other than defence, banking on a lot of players to step up.
Then why Juve not coming for Greenwood?
Our attack is probably stronger just by virtue of not having Lukaku around anymore, Rashford and Martial will be far better without that Donkey getting in the way.
Our midfield however is a massive issue and losing Herrera is a disaster as he was our second best midfielder and a hugely underrated player. We desperately needed another creative midfielder to help Pogba and provide our attackers with more supply but alas it seems we are going to have to pray that Angel Gomes plays and takes his chance.
Our midfield however is a massive issue and losing Herrera is a disaster as he was our second best midfielder and a hugely underrated player. We desperately needed another creative midfielder to help Pogba and provide our attackers with more supply but alas it seems we are going to have to pray that Angel Gomes plays and takes his chance.
Because we wouldn't sell obviously
I get how that works.
I also look at a squad that has a midfield with little creativity. We’re an injury to Pogba away from what looks like a mid table area of the pitch.
We still haven’t signed a versatile attacker - one that Ole is repeatedly rumoured to want. We’re also an injury to Shaw away from playing Young at left back. Meanwhile, Spurs and Arsenal are bringing in young talent like Sessegnon and Tierney. Spurs are also (potentially) bringing in a player like Dybala.
So this isn’t a demand for top tier names, or superstars. These are players that would fit the team we’re allegedly attempting to build. Now we’re in a position in which we close the window with two or three glaring gaps in the squad. It’s not good enough, irrespective of what Ole is trying to do.
I'm not even sure we have strengthened the defense. That defense is going to be peppered with shots. Have to wait and see if it can hold out again top teams with well defined attacking patterns and our virtually non-existent midfield. We are already struggling to attract good players, another year at 6th or below, and we'll firmly be a mid-table club.
The worst case scenario is when 2 of our senior midfielders got injured, we're left with one of Perreira and Mctominay. If 1 got banned, 2 injured including Fred, we're basically fecked.
Unless Garner can gain more muscles and filled his frame, I can't see we can cope with all the fixtures.
I'm one of the most positive posters here, and here I am telling the worst case scenario.
We're fecked.
Unless Garner can gain more muscles and filled his frame, I can't see we can cope with all the fixtures.
I'm one of the most positive posters here, and here I am telling the worst case scenario.
We're fecked.
If they bid Lukaku money for a 17 year old with zero 1st team apps we would say no? For an unproven academy prospect? Our attack cannot improve with less proven GS in it. It makes no sense. Pogba is our top scorer and Lukaku 2nd. Rashford ended with 3 goals in 17 and Martial has not played CF regularly for over a year. This is incompetence at the highest order.
Look how thin the squad is.
Based on Pre-Season, that is our current best line up.
Alexis will come in to cover for the no.10 role or main striker so that will give another player to cover for either left or AM.
But all things considered, yes our squad is thinner than ever before.
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I fancy Gomes and Tuanzebe to have an impact on that teamsheet. Ahead of Smalling and either Mata or Lingard.