Pogba Future

Would you accept Dybala and Sandro for Pogba?

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I love / hate watching Pogba, love the smart passing and vision, but he does get lazy and walk around the pitch. If he had a less agressive agent, then perhaps people would like him more.

I always thought of him as the new Paul Scholes, an advanced midfield player, playing him deeper doesn't seem to get the best from him.

My view is that he will go back to Italy next summer, but United should make every effort to keep him.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yeah I mean all those goals and assists are really awful :(
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All those penalties and a few goals from open play you mean?

Gonna have to step it up to get close to the same number of goals this season if Rashford is now our permanent no1 penalty taker.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
All those penalties and a few goals from open play you mean?

Gonna have to step it up to get close to the same number of goals this season if Rashford is now our permanent no1 penalty taker.
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Perhaps if everybody else steps up to his level we won't need to worry :cool:
 
Adam-Utd said:
Still trying to rock the boat and make the fans hate him. I've never known the media to hate a player so much it's absolutely bizarre.

I think they know deep down he's the key to everything good United play, so if they can upset him they ruin our chances. feck em.
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Even David Moyes had to defend the club and say he’s not going and he will be professional about it.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Perhaps if everybody else steps up to his level we won't need to worry :cool:
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So if every player loses possession 25 times per match, do you mean? Or every player runs as little as him. Yeah, that would be brilliant. No doubt does he possess qualities none of his teammates can replicate, but he is also lacklustre at times. He can be world class, but he can be lazy, within ten minutes. I think a lesser player with more consistency would benefit us. I would rather have Eriksen.
 
I still think he'll sign a new deal, I'm sure new contracts will be negotiated now our window is over.

He's still the most vital component of getting this team to the calibre it should be.
 
Rossa said:
So if every player loses possession 25 times per match, do you mean? Or every player runs as little as him. Yeah, that would be brilliant. No doubt does he possess qualities none of his teammates can replicate, but he is also lacklustre at times. He can be world class, but he can be lazy, within ten minutes. I think a lesser player with more consistency would benefit us. I would rather have Eriksen.
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We've got a team of runners, we need a few footballers too unfortunately.

I've never said Pogba is perfect, but without his 2 magical assists the scoreline would look a lot tighter.

Personally i'd stick him back to the CAM position and get somebody like Thiago Alcantara/Verratti behind, but obviously they're a very limited pool.
 
JPRouve said:
His french is terrible but basically, he said that despite his previous words(I suppose the ones from Korea), he is always happy when he plays, he loves his teammates, wants to win every games and the future is the future.

I'm paraphrasing.
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China, it was in China. But yes, I fully agree with your translation. Let him focus on United now.
 
In my honest opinion I think even with all his indiscipline we'd be half the team we are without him. I think we'll sell him next summer and should hold out for £150M, hopefully by then we'll have a suitable replacement or two waiting in the wings.
 
Are the people who complain about Pogba losing the ball the same people who berate players like Matic for passing sideways?

He tries things, and sometimes they don't happen, but without him trying we'd be back to LvG style passing. Give him movement ahead of him and he will create a lot of chances for the team.
 
I just wish he would be present during the whole 90 minutes for once. His pass to Rashford for the third was pure class but again he went missing for large chuncks of the game on Sunday. So I still can't help to feel that both parties would be better off if we signed a few decent players with the money we would get for Pogba.
 
Lentwood said:
Pogba is like a fish up a tree in this United team. We don't get the best out of him and in turn, he isn't really the player we need right now

Undoubtedly a world-class player in the right system, I just cant help but feel that if we could get £130m-£150m, plus the Lukaku money (£75m), plus whatever is in the kitty for next Summer anyway, we could buy 4 top, top players in the positions we are badly lacking and have a real crack at top 2/3
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I agree to a certain extent.
However, we cannot sell him now. Guarantee him that he can leave for a reasonable price next summer if he helps us getting top 4.
Then we should be able to attract top players and completely rebuild our midfield and partially the attack.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
It really isn’t nonsense, the premier league isn’t for everyone (aka di Maria). There aren’t as many easy games as the likes of PSG, Barca and Madrid get throughout a season.
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There are countless examples of players who've improved their goalscoring record when they came to the PL from other leagues. Just as many, if not more goals are scored in the PL as in La Liga, Serie A etc. It's not some magical, mythical place where players somehow find it more difficult to be better players in. It's such a silly idea to think that way.
 
My worry with him is more his decision making rather than effort. Far too many times he tries silly flicks & tricks in the middle of the park which is even more dangerous when you are playing deep. The long passes are amazing but it's the short flicks that are going to cost us
 
If this season doesn't go well for Madrid, with Zidane not having been given Pogba as he wanted, I wonder if Zidane will even stay. If he doesn't, will Pogba want to move to Madrid? It will depend who is managing them.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
My worry with him is more his decision making rather than effort. Far too many times he tries silly flicks & tricks in the middle of the park which is even more dangerous when you are playing deep. The long passes are amazing but it's the short flicks that are going to cost us
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Yep he did get caught a few times in the first half, perhaps it was nerves or Chelsea pressing quickly.

Second half he played a lot more traditionally and it helped.

I think it's just his second nature to try and hold off players and ride the press with a trick, which unfortunately doesn't always come off.

It probably doesn't help moving positions all the time, but if we're settled in playing him as a 6 then i'm sure he will adapt more.
 
[QUOTE="Massive Spanner, post: 24559804, member: 89760"It's such a silly idea to think that way.[/QUOTE]

Your name suits you if you genuinely believe this, our championship is more competitive than most European leagues never mind the premiership.
 
Adam-Utd said:
We've got a team of runners, we need a few footballers too unfortunately.

I've never said Pogba is perfect, but without his 2 magical assists the scoreline would look a lot tighter.

Personally i'd stick him back to the CAM position and get somebody like Thiago Alcantara/Verratti behind, but obviously they're a very limited pool.
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Without him, we would not have lost the ball as much, and one could argue that we would have played more fluent football. His two assists made 4-0 instead of 2-0. Nobody is denying that he has great ability, but he also comes with some major concerns. Stick him further upfield, and he often seems to be outnumbered as he dallies on the ball too long. Stick him as a midfielder in a two, and he loses possession and can't track runners.

I'm not advocating we should sell him, but the overall effect of the team may not be detrimental if he were to leave and we invested that money in two new midfielders, albeit with less ability but better consistency.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yep he did get caught a few times in the first half, perhaps it was nerves or Chelsea pressing quickly.

Second half he played a lot more traditionally and it helped.

I think it's just his second nature to try and hold off players and ride the press with a trick, which unfortunately doesn't always come off.

It probably doesn't help moving positions all the time, but if we're settled in playing him as a 6 then i'm sure he will adapt more.
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It's a mix of several things. Pogba anticipation is poor and he is too reluctant to pass the ball to the goalkeeper or hoof it forward. But the biggest issue is a group issue, it's too common for our players to make themselves unavailable and this weekend it was a particularly bad habits for McTominay and Pereira. In theory Pogba-McTominay-Pereira should always play in a triangle and always focus on being an easy outlet for the other two players, instead of that they all played their own game offensively and defensively with little care for their positioning and little anticipation of their teammates needs.
 
The analogy is, get with someone who cheated on their partner and they might cheat on you too. Pogba might give everything to his relationship with Utd but his head will always be easily be turned. Irrespective of what he might want, Real couldn't afford him. I suspect the price will be high next year too and depends on Real's fortunes, there might be competing priorities that they need to spend the money on next year too.
 
Rossa said:
Without him, we would not have lost the ball as much, and one could argue that we would have played more fluent football. His two assists made 4-0 instead of 2-0. Nobody is denying that he has great ability, but he also comes with some major concerns. Stick him further upfield, and he often seems to be outnumbered as he dallies on the ball too long. Stick him as a midfielder in a two, and he loses possession and can't track runners.

I'm not advocating we should sell him, but the overall effect of the team may not be detrimental if he were to leave and we invested that money in two new midfielders, albeit with less ability but better consistency.
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I think it really depends on what you like as a person. Yes ideally it would be nice if he had Carrick consistency and kept it simple and never over did it, but that's just not him. You have to take the good with the bad.

If it means Pogba might lose the ball in midfield a few extra times than Jorginho does for Chelsea, but ends up with 15 more goals and assists a season? yeah i'll take that all day long.

There's plenty of water carriers out there, but not many Pogba's.

He's probably leaving next year anyway, so some will get their wish. I just hope you can all accept a season of Mctominay, Pereira and Fred.
 
Massive Spanner said:
There are countless examples of players who've improved their goalscoring record when they came to the PL from other leagues. Just as many, if not more goals are scored in the PL as in La Liga, Serie A etc. It's not some magical, mythical place where players somehow find it more difficult to be better players in. It's such a silly idea to think that way.
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For example Lacazette record, excluding penalties, is better in the PL than it is in Ligue 1.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Oh man hilarious.

but yeah you haven't a clue.
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:lol:

Your retorts have the level of a 10 year olds response.

Even one of our own who everyone loved left the best team of the decade in the premiership cause he couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo most of the time and went on to win the golden boot in Spain.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
:lol:

Your retorts have the level of a 10 year olds response.

Even one of our own who everyone loved left the best team of the decade in the premiership cause he couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo most of the time and went on to win the golden boot in Spain.
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And yours on my username was great?

See Lacazette example above.

Or Aguero, Suarez, Michu, Salah etc. etc.- it's just not true. There are as many examples of players whose goal scoring rate increased in the PL as there are who decreased.
 
Massive Spanner said:
And yours on my username was great?

See Lacazette example above.

Or Aguero, Suarez, Michu, Salah etc. etc.- it's just not true. There are as many examples of players whose goal scoring rate increased in the PL as there are who decreased.
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Pretty sure Aguero was banging them in for atletico at a similar rate who are generally the 3rd best team in Spain while he is now playing up top for the best team in the premiership who are averaging silly point and silly goals per season now so hardly a fair comparison.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
Pretty sure Aguero was banging them in for atletico at a similar rate who are generally the 3rd best team in Spain while he is now playing up top for the best team in the premiership who are averaging silly point and silly goals per season now so hardly a fair comparison.
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The rates aren't even in the same galaxy. He has scored every 108 minutes in the PL while he was scoring every 179 minutes in La Liga.
 
JPRouve said:
The rates aren't even in the same galaxy. He has scored every 108 minutes in the PL while he was scoring every 179 minutes in La Liga.
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21 goals in 33 premiership games last season, 21 goals in 25 goals the season before, last season for atletico was 20 in 32.

According to soccerway at least, that is a similar galaxy to me.

Anyway passed caring now my original point was nothing to do with this
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
21 goals in 33 premiership games last season, 21 goals in 25 goals the season before, last season for atletico was 20 in 32.

According to soccerway at least, that is a similar galaxy to me.

Anyway passed caring now my original point was nothing to do with this
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Aguero scored 165 goals during the 17867 minutes that he played in the PL against 74 goals during the 13227 minutes played in La Liga. It's not in the same galaxy and I didn't use arbitrary seasons.
 
JPRouve said:
Aguero scored 165 goals during the 17867 minutes that he played in the PL against 74 goals during the 13227 minutes played in La Liga. It's not in the same galaxy and I didn't use arbitrary seasons.
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I used the last 2 season for city when the claimed 197 and god knows how many goals, hardly cooking the books. Forget all that minutes per goal jibber jabber he was playing for the 1-0 kings in Spain :lol:

All I can see is he has never scored more than 26 in a premiership season, if he was playing for Barca, Real Madrid or PSG during his prime I would bet every penny in my pocket he would have broke 30 in a season.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
I used the last 2 season for city when the claimed 197 and god knows how many goals, hardly cooking the books. Forget all that minutes per goal jibber jabber he was playing for the 1-0 kings in Spain :lol:

All I can see is he has never scored more than 26 in a premiership season, if he was playing for Barca, Real Madrid or PSG during his prime I would bet every penny in my pocket he would have broke 30 in a season.
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I don't really care, you suggested that he had a similar goalscoring rate in both leagues, that's factually wrong. There is no discussion or argument to have on that subject.
 
Love or hate him, United shouldn’t sell this summer and in return they get 12 months to prepare for life without him come end of next summer.

Calm and collected should be the approach going forward at United.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
Pretty sure Aguero was banging them in for atletico at a similar rate who are generally the 3rd best team in Spain while he is now playing up top for the best team in the premiership who are averaging silly point and silly goals per season now so hardly a fair comparison.
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Well, he wasn't, and even discounting Aguero there are clearly loads of other examples you can use.

You can't just say "the PL is more compeitive so players will score less/provide less/whatever" because even if it is more competitive (and up until last season, it really was not, because most teams who won the league ran away with it and PL teams were absolutely diabolical in Europe) there are way more factors that determine what league a player is suited to for scoring goals.

I'd say right now, at this moment there's an argument to be made that the PL is again the world's strongest league, but it wasn't for most of this decade and regardless it tends to have zero relevance to how many goals a player will score in a league or not, across the top 3 or 4 leagues at least.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yeah I mean all those goals and assists are really awful :(
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What if those 30-odd goals/assists cost us 10 goals at the other end AND we could buy three/four other players with the money who would contribute 20-25 goals/assists EACH?

Nowhere do I knock Pogba as a player, I just don't think he suits a high-energy, high-press system in a relatively flawed side
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
If you click it takes you to a website that shows a very very similar same galaxy ouput per league season. There are no huge variations.
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So you are going to completely ignore the fact that you talked about a rate and that the rates in both leagues are vastly different, because the amounts of minutes played per seaons are different. Aguero record is a lot better in the PL and I already gave you the rates.
 
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