Kashmir

anant

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:lol: You guys have imposed a two week curfew (not sure how long it will last) and a media blackout and are shooting at everyone protesting.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aza...m_7jAhUITBUIHUZEDLAQ_AUIESgB&biw=1280&bih=578

https://www.google.com/search?q=jam...m_7jAhWtShUIHeF3ADYQ_AUIEigC&biw=1280&bih=578

What mental hoops do you have to jump through to argue that the second place is much better off than the first one.
Are you arguing that India hasn't been the better off nation in the post independence era? I'm not talking about Kashmir here, but nation as a whole!

Apart from producing better fast bowlers, you haven't been more successful than us
 

MJJ

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That's bad. It's been what a whole week now with the curfew/sec 144? I wish GoI does something to bring things back to normal.




So given that the media blackout and curfew is ongoing, how are you getting information on the shootings? Are you currently living in Kashmir or are you relying on the news media (which is under blackout?) I'm genuinely confused :confused:
BBC have reporters in who bought satellite phones for 1400 euros to report what is going on. BBC also have pictures and interviews with people who have been shot. It's pretty graphic.

Also have kashmiri friends but hard to tell how much of what they say is true
 

MJJ

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Are you arguing that India hasn't been the better off nation in the post independence era? I'm not talking about Kashmir here, but nation as a whole!

Apart from producing better fast bowlers, you haven't been more successful than us
I am arguing that your criteria for why kashmir should join you is wrong. Ask the kashmiris currently losing their eyes how much they care about which country has produced more fast bowlers or has done better economically.

Like you people seriously lack empathy, people cant leave their homes, have no access to medicine and you are getting into a dick measuring contest? What is wrong with you?
 

MJJ

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https://www.bbc.com/news/av/49306816/article-370-tear-gas-at-kashmir-rally-india-denies-happened

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-a...te-we-ve-been-pushed-back-into-medieval-times

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-49225027/kashmir-terror-alert-we-are-scared-to-stay-here

@iKnowNothing India basically fabricated a terror alert in kashmir to get all foreigners and media to leave, then dumped an extra 20k troops in the valley, locked 500 political leaders and imposed a curfew and media blackout.
 

ThatsGreat

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Are you still stuck in the 80's? This hasn't happened in like forever.
What 80s, Mussharaf was President in 2008, hardly 10 years ago. And its widely known that Imran Khan is a patsy for Gen. Bajwa who calls the shots in Pakistan. Imran Khan knows better than to tussle with the army, they'll get rid of him in a jiffy if they wanted to.
 

anant

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I am arguing that your criteria for why kashmir should join you is wrong. Ask the kashmiris currently losing their eyes how much they care about which country has produced more fast bowlers or has done better economically.

Like you people seriously lack empathy, people cant leave their homes, have no access to medicine and you are getting into a dick measuring contest? What is wrong with you?
Wait a second! No one has said that this should be the criteria. All I'm saying is Kashmir would be better off with us than with Pakistan.

As far as empathy bit is concerned, everyone on this thread has accepted that the way we did it was wrong and even if it had to be done, it should have been done when Kashmiris didn't feel so alienated
 

MJJ

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Wait a second! No one has said that this should be the criteria. All I'm saying is Kashmir would be better off with us than with Pakistan.

As far as empathy bit is concerned, everyone on this thread has accepted that the way we did it was wrong and even if it had to be done, it should have been done when Kashmiris didn't feel so alienated
Please tell me how the kashmiris who are under curfew, cant get medicines and are getting shot at for protesting better off than the one living free?

Have they? Because all I see is a bunch of you shouting at people to stop highlighting the human rights violations going on and posting about cricket, etc (special mention to patrick who is still trying to get a single post in without spelling mistakes)

Why are such few voices in India condoning the violence? The ones that are are getting arrested.

Given how often you guys are using this statement as a crutch while still ignoring or denying the violence, it's pretty equivalent to the thoughts and prayers the right in America relies on before blaming video games, etc.
 

milemuncher777

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The list is endless, I could go on and on. Bias broadcasting corrupt corporation as it is famously known on these matters.

No wonder they pay those out of jobs free lance Kashmiri photographers and column writers with ndtv and Al jazeera experience ( Aamir peerzada, Zubair sofi) and totally reverse the tone of the columns from actual reality on the ground. These are their sources, and one of these man is using a 2016 shot video from protests of killing of Militant commander burhan wani in the valley and potraying it as the recently shot one.

NY times source is also a freelance photographer and journalist with a ndtv background Atul Loke who owns a company in Mumbai and is not the source of these photographs and videos himself and is working on vested interests.

The reality of these vested interest groups sitting in those khan market gang and luteyns lobbies

https://rightlog.in/2019/08/abdul-basit-shobhaa-de-01/

Video clearly prooving on Pakistan's envoy behest Jounalist and columnist Shobha Dey writing a Anti India article.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sho...e-influenced-her-2016-kashmir-article-2084193

And after being caught she still keeps denying it and Ndtv toeing her line on it. No wonder they are going out of business and in process enquiry is on the owners for tax frauds. The vested interest corrupt group claiming vendetta.
The BJP govt downgraded Vijay Maliya's look-out notice just before he escaped the country after meeting then finance minster Arun Jaitley. Bjp also gave Mehul Choksi a clean chit for Antiguan citizenship. It’s clear how hard they clamp down on tax frauders.

But keep shouting...
 
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anant

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Please tell me how the kashmiris who are under curfew, cant get medicines and are getting shot at for protesting better off than the one living free?

Have they? Because all I see is a bunch of you shouting at people to stop highlighting the human rights violations going on and posting about cricket, etc (special mention to patrick who is still trying to get a single post in without spelling mistakes)

Why are such few voices in India condoning the violence? The ones that are are getting arrested.

Given how often you guys are using this statement as a crutch while still ignoring or denying the violence, it's pretty equivalent to the thoughts and prayers the right in America relies on before blaming video games, etc.
How are you not getting it! The curfew is temporary. The reasons behind them are also pretty obvious.

Secondly, no one is defending the Government for what is happening there. Everyone is equally disturbed by that, however, the only difference is that we understand such a decision was due sometime or the other as the unrest in the valley thanks to separatists ( a lot of them funded by Pakistan) had led to normal people suffering. Obviously, I would have liked had Kashmir been a bit like in Vajpayee's tenure, when violence was pretty much at its lowest in the last 30 odd years.
 

MJJ

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How are you not getting it! The curfew is temporary. The reasons behind them are also pretty obvious.

Secondly, no one is defending the Government for what is happening there. Everyone is equally disturbed by that, however, the only difference is that we understand such a decision was due sometime or the other as the unrest in the valley thanks to separatists ( a lot of them funded by Pakistan) had led to normal people suffering. Obviously, I would have liked had Kashmir been a bit like in Vajpayee's tenure, when violence was pretty much at its lowest in the last 30 odd years.
It's been going on for two weeks now and people have missed eid over it. The brutality of the indian army has been going on for a long while.

Given modis track record and obvious appeal to hindu nationalism I am not optimistic of the future. I mean you have government officials going now we can marry kashmiri girls ffs.

As for the second point, based on this thread agree to disagree.
 

milemuncher777

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:lol: Ffs RT. It’s a Russian propaganda machine funded by Russian govt. Why am I not surprised.
 

MJJ

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Outside a guarded government office in Indian-occupied Kashmir's main city, an interminable queue forms every day for a near-priceless opportunity: a two-minute phone call to the outside world.

Residents of Srinagar and the Kashmir Valley have been starved of phone and internet use for a week as India snuffs out opposition to its military lockdown in the Himalayan region.

No phone calls, no groceries: occupied Kashmir on edge under lockdown

Only two mobile phones with an outside line are on offer in the deputy commissioner's office, but so desperate are people to contact families in the rest of India and overseas that they come from across Srinagar and beyond to wait in line.

Under the watchful eye of Indian paramilitaries, the calls and conversations are tightly controlled, and simmering frustrations often boil over.

One 56-year-old woman, who had walked miles and was stopped at dozens of checkpoints along the way, became embroiled in an argument with security forces outside the office after she was turned away.

“They stopped me from entering because they don't have a female police officer to frisk me,” the dejected woman, who was hoping to call her two children studying abroad, told AFP.

“I am worried about my daughters but they would definitely be more worried about us,” she said, declining to be named.

In the end, she was left with no choice but to give her children's numbers to a stranger in the queue and plead with him to try and contact them.
The indian army and everyone supporting the subjugation of kashmir has no shame or morals.
 

shamans

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What 80s, Mussharaf was President in 2008, hardly 10 years ago. And its widely known that Imran Khan is a patsy for Gen. Bajwa who calls the shots in Pakistan. Imran Khan knows better than to tussle with the army, they'll get rid of him in a jiffy if they wanted to.
:lol: @MJJ check this out. Where do you get your info from? There was an election recently with all polls suggesting Imran Khan would win. Almost every section of the public (conservatives, liberals) are happy with and voted for his party.

But somehow magically it was s soft military coup. No wonder you're clueless on this issue
 

MJJ

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:lol: @MJJ check this out. Where do you get your info from? There was an election recently with all polls suggesting Imran Khan would win. Almost every section of the public (conservatives, liberals) are happy with and voted for his party.

But somehow magically it was s soft military coup. No wonder you're clueless on this issue
He supports a terrorist for a PM, he is used to mental hoops :lol:
 

shamans

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He supports a terrorist for a PM, he is used to mental hoops :lol:
Resorting to some fabrication of an inside military coup is more than a mental hoop. Anyway it's clear no one is willing is to debate on this thread and it doesnt help with people quoting fake quotes and conspiracy theories.
 

MJJ

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Resorting to some fabrication of an inside military coup is more than a mental hoop. Anyway it's clear no one is willing is to debate on this thread and it doesnt help with people quoting fake quotes and conspiracy theories.
We have a poster trying his level best to convince everyone bbc is more biased than local Indian channels. Other than berbatrick, milemuncher and km, most of the indians in the thread are responded to the brutality as it's a sporting rivalry.
 

Ekkie Thump

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:lol: Ffs RT. It’s a Russian propaganda machine funded by Russian govt. Why am I not surprised.
Pilger is a serious journalist and his criticisms, while often biased themselves, are usually not without reason.

Though he extends most of his ire towards what he sees as the hypocrisy of the West he's no fan of the likes of the BJP either. Nor is he a fan of India's treatment of Muslims in general or of Kashmir in particular - finding common cause with Arundhati Roy instead. Here's an couple of excerpts describing the views of Pilger that @Patrick08 is unlikely to share:

John Pilger (2014) said:
Secularism may have been Nehru's grand vision, but Muslims in India remain among the poorest, most discriminated against and brutalised minority on earth.

The 2006 Sachar Commission found that in the elite institutes of technology, only four out of 100 students are Muslim, and in the cities Muslims have fewer chances of regular employment than the “untouchable” Dalits and indigenous Adivasis.

“It is ironic,” wrote Khushwant Singh, “that the highest incidence of violence against Muslims and Christians has taken place in Gujarat, the home state of Bapu Gandhi”.

Gujarat is also the home state of Narendra Modi, winner of three consecutive victories as BJP chief minister and the favourite to see off the diffident Rahul Gandhi in national elections in May. With his xenophobic Hindutva ideology, Modi appeals directly to dispossessed Hindus who believe Muslims are “privileged”.

Soon after he came to power in 2002, mobs slaughtered hundreds of Muslims. An investigating commission heard that Modi had ordered officials not to stop the rioters — which he denies. Admired by powerful industrialists, he boasts the highest “growth” in India.
John Pilger + Arundhati Roy (2011) said:
In Kashmir, a forgotten India barely reported abroad, a peaceful resistance as inspiring as Tahrir Square has arisen in the most militarised region on earth. As the victims of Partition, Muslim Kashmiris have known none of Nehru's noble legacies. Thousands of dissidents have "disappeared" and torture is not uncommon. "The voice that the government of India has tried so hard to silence," wrote Arundhati Roy, "has now massed into a deafening roar. Hundreds of thousands of unarmed people have come out to reclaim their cities, their streets and mohallas. They have simply overwhelmed the heavily armed security forces by their sheer numbers, and with a remarkable display of raw courage." An Indian Spring may be next.
Not exactly proving himself a seer with unblemished record in the last quote, but nontheless pretty relevant to where his sympathies lie and where he points the finger of blame.
 

ThatsGreat

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:lol: @MJJ check this out. Where do you get your info from? There was an election recently with all polls suggesting Imran Khan would win. Almost every section of the public (conservatives, liberals) are happy with and voted for his party.

But somehow magically it was s soft military coup. No wonder you're clueless on this issue
Liberals :lol: Pakistan has conservatives and more conservatives. You can find several Indian news sources, and indian people criticizing our governments moves. Show me a single pakistani, liberal or otherwise, criticising the terrorist training camps that Pakistan runs.
 

shamans

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Liberals :lol: Pakistan has conservatives and more conservatives. You can find several Indian news sources, and indian people criticizing our governments moves. Show me a single pakistani, liberal or otherwise, criticising the terrorist training camps that Pakistan runs.
Headache inducing dumb post. I've also reported you for the terrorist training camps comment. If you want to be took seriously please open a book or read regular news sources for a change.
 

syrian_scholes

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Liberals :lol: Pakistan has conservatives and more conservatives. You can find several Indian news sources, and indian people criticizing our governments moves. Show me a single pakistani, liberal or otherwise, criticising the terrorist training camps that Pakistan runs.
Wtf? Are you saying that Pakistani people support terrorists? Never knew that a lot of indians are racist until I read this thread. (Ban from the biased KM incoming)
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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They're not accusations Edgar, plenty of evidence out there it's happening.

So if a non Pakistani pointed these issues out you would accept it?

It sounds a lot like defelection to me. I haven't seen many Indians talk about the issues on the ground or accept the evidence in front of them. All I've seen them do is attack the poster for being Pakistani even though most sources are non Pakistani. Some reposnses have been so petty bringing in the economy and education, its pathetic.
There is no denying current situation in Kashmir.

One, Most Indians (not just bakhts or Modi supporters as MJJ likes to wrongly portray) believe that Kashmir would be better off integrated, so the move has widespread support and taken as a positive move. Two, if India had made the move without these draconian measures, the valley would have been a bloodbath of violence now. With these measures the reaction has been muted and violence/death toll still is a minimum. Finally, what most believe is that the measures are the lesser of two evils (against no such measures) but still the integration would benefit everyone in long run.

There are no accurate records but estimates run to about 75k-100k deaths/missing in Kashmir since the insurgency began in 1989 all under Art 370. I expect these to fall off drastically in coming years as this is not a 'disputed' territory anymore. Also do expect the curfew/blackout to be a temporary measure and be lifted soon.
 

KM

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Wtf? Are you saying that Pakistani people support terrorists? Never knew that a lot of indians are racist until I read this thread. (Ban from the biased KM incoming)
I've a fan base on the caf :lol:
 

roonster09

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Wtf? Are you saying that Pakistani people support terrorists? Never knew that a lot of indians are racist until I read this thread. (Ban from the biased KM incoming)
:lol: Hopefully Ban for calling lot of Indians racists too based on 3-4 posters.
 

syrian_scholes

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Yeah everyone is biased apart from you. Good stuff.
How can I be biased when I'm not even from the region? And that's definitely what I'm saying, I'm calling you, particularly you, biased, you don't represent everyone.
 

KM

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How can I be biased when I'm not even from the region? And that's definitely what I'm saying, I'm calling you, particularly you, biased, you don't represent everyone.
if you've such a problem with me then go PM the admins about it. Don't waste everyone's time.
 

syrian_scholes

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:lol: Hopefully Ban for calling lot of Indians racists too based on 3-4 posters.
Your pm has ties to terrorist hindu groups, just like in the US there's a lot of racists who voted Trump, in India a lot of racists voted Modi, if you fail to see the connection then it's on you.
 

kps88

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Hold a referendum and let the people decide?
I don't think the region is stable enough to ensure a fair, safe and well informed referendum. If you think the situation is bad now, it'll be far worse after a referendum, whatever the result.
 

syrian_scholes

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You just called a lot of Indians racists based on reading this thread. Yeah not biased at all.

Anyways if you've such a problem with me then go PM the admins about it. Don't waste everyone's time.
I don't need to pm the admins to express my opinion, and what I meant is there are a lot of racists in India just like most countries, how is that wrong?
 

roonster09

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Your pm has ties to terrorist hindu groups, just like in the US there's a lot of racist who voted Trump, in India a lot of racists voted Modi, if you fail to see the connection then it's on you.
:lol: fecking hell late entry but worth the wait.