RedTiger
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What did he get wrong tactically tonight?Another game that has exposed the fact that tactically Solskjaer is clueless.
What did he get wrong tactically tonight?Another game that has exposed the fact that tactically Solskjaer is clueless.
Pure hyperbole there. LVG played youth at full-back & up-front. The spine of the team was still experienced. Compared to tonight with our spine being made up of youth and experienced players playing their first minutes of the season, that makes a world of difference. We still dominated and won the match let's not forget that.We beat FC Midgetland 5-1 with a team full of kids under LvG.
They'd rather be right than their team be successful. Pretty sad and pathetic in equal measure if I'm being honest...As someone said they can't see past the manager...its embarrassing but football fans for you.
Good points but the main difference between what SAF did and would still do if he could is 'time'. He had transition periods ( albeit we won trophies in those periods too) all along his career and was given time and patience to build teams. None of the managers in this era will be given that amount of time. And i agree this 'united way' is a lazy term to combat other 'ways' of football.The fundamental flaw of trying to adhere to some hallowed “United way” (aka like a Fergie side) is that Fergie’s greatest strength, and the very thing that made him such a GOAT manager, was his complete lack of any discernible singular ideology, and his ability to adapt and re-shape his sides consistently, according to the requirements of the era... he was a modernist, and a hugely malleable, progressive one at that...
So trying to copy some vague imagined semblance of any particular “way” is basically anathema to the very concept of the man...it’s a practical oxymoron.
The “Fergie way” in 2019, would’ve been to learn from and adapt to the prevailing trend of Pep/Klopp/Poch-style high pressing technical attacking.... he’d have hired an assistant who could help him facilitate that, and embraced the challenge of perfecting it, improving it, and finding a way of beating its proponents at their own game.
I just don’t see anything yet in Ole’s 10 or so months in charge, that demonstrates he has any solid grasp on what he wants us to do as a modern, fluid attacking side in 2019.... We’re still playing like a side whose improvising on the fly, and relying on a bit of magic to get us by.... except that we don’t have the kind of consistently magic players Ole played with under SAF, so setting our teams up to facilitate these moments, just doesn’t work... and ends up with Marcus Rojo trying a Rabona through ball on the edge of the box in the final 3rd of a 0-0 game against a made up computer generated PES side... which is frankly embarrassing!
Not be the latest flavour of the month manager, methinks...Some of you guys need to get a grip.
Played kids, and some players playing first games of the season. Created plenty of chances, missed some sitters and hit the woodwork a number of times. I'm not sure what Ole has done wrong to get this criticism.
It's really strange. You would think people would get behind the guy starting a team full of youth in an important European match (which we also dominated and won) but i guess not...Two wins in a week and two more of our better players committing their long term future to the club. And people are taking cuts at Ole....
Why not do some due diligence and gave that same game time breakdown of analysis for the players that played tonight. All good spinning things to make them look good telling me how much games Depay played. How many has Tuazebe played at CB for Aston Villa?Depay was 22 and had played 150 matches for PSV
Lingard was 23 and had made a breakthrough at United - after playing more than 50 matches in the Championship
Varela was inexperienced yes - but he was 23 years old
They played together with Blind, Mata, Schneiderlin, Herrera who were all regulars
Today we had Tuazebe 21, Gomes 19, Rashford 21, Greenwood 17, Dalot 20 and Chong 19 - accompanied by 4 players the majority of United-fans accept arent good enough (Rojo, Matic, Jones, Fred). We started today with 6 players under 22. Against MidtJylland we had 2.
As for Andreas - he came on with 4 minutes left to play in Denmark
I only have one post left but it’s nearly midnight so I’ll waste it replying to your numb-nutted post: What a load of mindless nonsense.Another game that has exposed the fact that tactically Solskjaer is clueless.
Looking forward to the detailed tactical response.What did he get wrong tactically tonight?
If only we had Cook, Rico and Ryan Fraser.Imagine expecting scintillating attacking football from 3 youth players in the forward line, backed up by Rojo at full back and Matic in centre midfield.
You people must look at average PL lineups and expect prime Barcelona every weekend.
If we had those 3 I'm sure they'd get starts.If only we had Cook, Rico and Ryan Fraser.
We were playing Astana at Old Trafford in the opening Europe League group match.It's really strange. You would think people would get behind the guy starting a team full of youth in an important European match (which we also dominated and won) but i guess not...
Completely, and if anything can be said for Ole so far, it's that his summer signings have near unanimously been a perfect balance between instant quality and future potential... However it continues to worry me how he still hasn't managed to instil any kind of attacking style or discernable identity in almost 10 months on the job, despite the idea of a greater attacking ethos being one of the central things championed as a benefit of his appointment! What is it we're actually doing as an attacking side? Sure, transition requires patience, but after 10 months it's not unreasonable to expect at least a modicum of progress on that front... Isn't it?Good points but the main difference between what SAF did and would still do if he could is 'time'. He had transition periods ( albeit we won trophies in those periods too) all along his career and was given time and patience to build teams. None of the managers in this era will be given that amount of time. And i agree this 'united way' is a lazy term to combat other 'ways' of football.
That makes it an important game.We were playing Astana at Old Trafford in the opening Europe League group match.
Well no it wasn't, especially in such a crap group. We lost the opening match in our last EL campaign that we won by the way.That makes it an important game.
We played 3 kids. Arsenal just beat Frankfurt 3-0 with 3 kids. Please explain your point?
Im guessing you saw the Arsenal game then?If only we had Cook, Rico and Ryan Fraser.
Some people just moaners it makes them happyIt's really strange. You would think people would get behind the guy starting a team full of youth in an important European match (which we also dominated and won) but i guess not...
Define sooner and later as this could mean anythingPretty obvious Ole will be gone sooner rather than later.
Harsh but fair. As I posted in the post match thread, the worst thing about our recent performances has been that they’re just so similar. We’re somehow reproducing the infamous zombie football of end stage Fergie and low points under every manager since.Completely, and if anything can be said for Ole so far, it's that his summer signings have near unanimously been a perfect balance between instant quality and future potential... However it continues to worry me how he still hasn't managed to instil any kind of attacking style or discernable identity in almost 10 months on the job, despite the idea of a greater attacking ethos being one of the central things championed as a benefit of his appointment! What is it we're actually doing as an attacking side? Sure, transition requires patience, but after 10 months it's not unreasonable to expect at least a modicum of progress on that front... Isn't it?
For some reason people like to bring up how Klopp took 3+ years to make Liverpool successful, bit that isn't really true, is it?... He got them to the Europa League final within 6 months of his appointment, and did so by playing in an obvious and noticeable beta-version of his intended eventual style... They came back from 1-3 down to beat Dortmund 4-3 in the semi that year, in a pre-cursor to the kind of comeback they'd enact against Barca last season... And they showed noticeable improvements in every subsequent season. And yet apparently it's ridiculous for us to expect any kind of tangible improvement from our squad, who finished above Liverpool a mere 18 months ago, in near 10 months of Ole's reign?.... Really?.... Really?....Come on now.... Really?
Pretty much. We can't be dissatisfied with a 2-1 loss to Palace at home, or 1-1 draw to a rubbish Southampton and failure to look significantly better than FC Astana from Narnia. We're the same set who weren't shy about criticising the lack of style under Mourinho and, all of sudden, we're content with the same lackluster football under a different manager because "the greatest manager of all time also once lost a game".Completely, and if anything can be said for Ole so far, it's that his summer signings have near unanimously been a perfect balance between instant quality and future potential... However it continues to worry me how he still hasn't managed to instil any kind of attacking style or discernable identity in almost 10 months on the job, despite the idea of a greater attacking ethos being one of the central things championed as a benefit of his appointment! What is it we're actually doing as an attacking side? Sure, transition requires patience, but after 10 months it's not unreasonable to expect at least a modicum of progress on that front... Isn't it?
For some reason people like to bring up how Klopp took 3+ years to make Liverpool successful, bit that isn't really true, is it?... He got them to the Europa League final within 6 months of his appointment, and did so by playing in an obvious and noticeable beta-version of his intended eventual style... They came back from 1-3 down to beat Dortmund 4-3 in the semi that year, in a pre-cursor to the kind of comeback they'd enact against Barca last season... And they showed noticeable improvements in every subsequent season. And yet apparently it's ridiculous for us to expect any kind of tangible improvement from our squad, who finished above Liverpool a mere 18 months ago, in near 10 months of Ole's reign?.... Really?.... Really?....Come on now.... Really?
Question is what happened to the first few games under Ole? I mean, how can a honeymoon period, alone, result in 12 goals in 3 games? I don't buy it. We actually played some delightful football across 270 minutes and played some decent stuff sporadically until March. I don't see any of it in recent (footballing) months.Harsh but fair. As I posted in the post match thread, the worst thing about our recent performances has been that they’re just so similar. We’re somehow reproducing the infamous zombie football of end stage Fergie and low points under every manager since.
I’m desperately hoping for any kind of a hint of something different to what I’ve seen before. Any kind of change in approach will do. I’m a positive guy. If I see something different I’ll use that to fuel my optimism. But it’s all just so... samey...
Both Klopp and Pep changed things so radically their teams dropped loads of stupid points in their first half season in charge. I’d accept that if you could see a similar radical overhaul underway. What fecking kills me is points being dropped in the exact same way we’ve seen again and again and again in recent seasons.
He's not utilizing the players the same way.Question is what happened to the first few games under Ole? I mean, how can a honeymoon period, alone, result in 12 goals in 3 games? I don't buy it. We actually played some delightful football across 270 minutes and played some decent stuff sporadically until March. I don't see any of it in recent (footballing) months.
That's exactly the point though. I believe when Ole speaks about the United way he's not talking about a style of play but a mentality and a ethos. It's about working hard and respecting the traditions of the club. It's about building continuity through buying young players that can play here for a long time instead of chasing quick fixes. And it's about bringing good characters who will play for the shirt.The fundamental flaw of trying to adhere to some hallowed “United way” (aka like a Fergie side) is that Fergie’s greatest strength, and the very thing that made him such a GOAT manager, was his complete lack of any discernible singular ideology, and his ability to adapt and re-shape his sides consistently, according to the requirements of the era... he was a modernist, and a hugely malleable, progressive one at that...
So trying to copy some vague imagined semblance of any particular “way” is basically anathema to the very concept of the man...it’s a practical oxymoron.
The “Fergie way” in 2019, would’ve been to learn from and adapt to the prevailing trend of Pep/Klopp/Poch-style high pressing technical attacking.... he’d have hired an assistant who could help him facilitate that, and embraced the challenge of perfecting it, improving it, and finding a way of beating its proponents at their own game.
I just don’t see anything yet in Ole’s 10 or so months in charge, that demonstrates he has any solid grasp on what he wants us to do as a modern, fluid attacking side in 2019.... We’re still playing like a side whose improvising on the fly, and relying on a bit of magic to get us by.... except that we don’t have the kind of consistently magic players Ole played with under SAF, so setting our teams up to facilitate these moments, just doesn’t work... and ends up with Marcus Rojo trying a Rabona through ball on the edge of the box in the final 3rd of a 0-0 game against a made up computer generated PES side... which is frankly embarrassing!
I’m not being funny but I’m not going to take your defensive block fromIm guessing you saw the Arsenal game then?
Im guessing Frankfurt didn't play in a low, defensive block at home v Arsenal reserves giving them having more space to work in but im sure your Google search can throw up such answers.
Sometimes the opposition just makes the game shit. You're drawing a false equivalency here.
We’re United fans we watch football but really... we only watch United. Thank you for educating some fans on what actually happened at Liverpool you’d think they just seen league positions and painted their own picture. But yet they can’t paint the picture that 18 months ago we was second!!!Completely, and if anything can be said for Ole so far, it's that his summer signings have near unanimously been a perfect balance between instant quality and future potential... However it continues to worry me how he still hasn't managed to instil any kind of attacking style or discernable identity in almost 10 months on the job, despite the idea of a greater attacking ethos being one of the central things championed as a benefit of his appointment! What is it we're actually doing as an attacking side? Sure, transition requires patience, but after 10 months it's not unreasonable to expect at least a modicum of progress on that front... Isn't it?
For some reason people like to bring up how Klopp took 3+ years to make Liverpool successful, bit that isn't really true, is it?... He got them to the Europa League final within 6 months of his appointment, and did so by playing in an obvious and noticeable beta-version of his intended eventual style... They came back from 1-3 down to beat Dortmund 4-3 in the semi that year, in a pre-cursor to the kind of comeback they'd enact against Barca last season... And they showed noticeable improvements in every subsequent season. And yet apparently it's ridiculous for us to expect any kind of tangible improvement from our squad, who finished above Liverpool a mere 18 months ago, in near 10 months of Ole's reign?.... Really?.... Really?....Come on now.... Really?
To be fair most of the points we've dropped have been from missing penalties, poor refereeing and De Gea/Lindelof dropping clangers. Not sure that can really be placed at Ole's feet. Without being amazing we've done enough to win every game. That in itself is a clear improvement because we haven't been doing that. Take the infamous xg for example. Our xg from every game has suggested we should have won every game by at least a goal. That certainly wasn't the case last season. It's a young team and a weak squad. Gradual progression is as much as we can realistically ask for and I think we're getting it.Harsh but fair. As I posted in the post match thread, the worst thing about our recent performances has been that they’re just so similar. We’re somehow reproducing the infamous zombie football of end stage Fergie and low points under every manager since.
I’m desperately hoping for any kind of a hint of something different to what I’ve seen before. Any kind of change in approach will do. I’m a positive guy. If I see something different I’ll use that to fuel my optimism. But it’s all just so... samey...
Both Klopp and Pep changed things so radically their teams dropped loads of stupid points in their first half season in charge. I’d accept that if you could see a similar radical overhaul underway. What fecking kills me is points being dropped in the exact same way we’ve seen again and again and again in recent seasons.
Precisely! There'd be significantly less grumbling over our dropped points had they genuinely been the product of a noticeably out of shape, well meaning but incohesive attacking unit, still trying to get used to complicated new tactics, such as - as you say - Pepe and Klopps early sides quite clearly were... But the fact there's been absolutely no discernible improvement in style, plan, cohesion, attitude, focus, risk taking, chance creation or motivation (the worst thing about the Wolves and Soton games was how pathetically we ended them, in an almost lazy defeatist acceptance of a point) is not simply some blase reactionary attitude.. It's a legitimate concern IMO..
Both Klopp and Pep changed things so radically their teams dropped loads of stupid points in their first half season in charge. I’d accept that if you could see a similar radical overhaul underway. What fecking kills me is points being dropped in the exact same way we’ve seen again and again and again in recent seasons.
I just don't think we are good enough yet to blow these teams away from home late in games. We haven't been for years. I don't believe it's an attitude thing. It's just a group of young players with fairly fragile confidence trying to get themselves up to the standard. In a couple of years Rashford probably gets on the end of a couple of those Dan James crosses against Southampton. That's my take on it.Precisely! There'd be significantly less grumbling over our dropped points had they genuinely been the product of a noticeably out of shape, well meaning but incohesive attacking unit, still trying to get used to complicated new tactics, such as - as you say - Pepe and Klopps early sides quite clearly were... But the fact there's been absolutely no discernible improvement in style, plan, cohesion, attitude, focus, risk taking, chance creation or motivation (the worst thing about the Wolves and Soton games was how pathetically we ended them, in an almost lazy defeatist acceptance of a point) is not simply some blase reactionary attitude.. It's a legitimate concern IMO.
When Ole first came in, he played a higher defensive line, very proactive defenders, wide strikers instead of touchline wingers, Pogba as an attacking central mid, a more balanced midfield 3, etc.Question is what happened to the first few games under Ole? I mean, how can a honeymoon period, alone, result in 12 goals in 3 games? I don't buy it. We actually played some delightful football across 270 minutes and played some decent stuff sporadically until March. I don't see any of it in recent (footballing) months.
re: Pogba the only thing I can think (or hope) is he played him deep because he doesn't want to play Matic there, and Fred wasn't ready. I really hope with Fred back now he'll revert to Pogba further forward.When Ole first came in, he played a higher defensive line, very proactive defenders, wide strikers instead of touchline wingers, Pogba as an attacking central mid, a more balanced midfield 3, etc.
I don't know why he's changed all of that, especially the Pogba part. You can't be having your match winners play so deep and/ or wide, it's illogical. Get them where they can do damage in the half-spaces and the central areas high up, let the limited players sweep up for them.
I don't think the results will improve much until he starts getting the best out of our best players especially with the formation, and right now it's not really happening.
That's exactly the point though. I believe when Ole speaks about the United way he's not talking about a style of play but a mentality and a ethos. It's about working hard and respecting the traditions of the club. It's about building continuity through buying young players that can play here for a long time instead of chasing quick fixes. And it's about bringing good characters who will play for the shirt.
Everyone is moaning that we don't have this singular identifiable style of football yet but I don't think that's what Ole is trying to do at all. He wants us to be flexible. Other than want them to play at a high tempo and attack I see no effort to lock us into any default system. He's trying to improve how we play in all phases of the game and not just be reliant on one style. He wants us to be able to counter attack and break down teams that sit. And he wants us to be able to defend and stop conceding so many goals.
Again, it's been 10 months... 10!... that's not an unreasonable amount of time to expect to see some notable improvements. You bring up Pep's lack of success in his inaugural season, when much like Klopp, it obfuscates the reality that everyone could see the noticeable change in City's play, and how their defeats that seasons were largely due to their inability (specifically defensively) to adapt to his demands instantly... Much like how Liverpool's first 10 months under Klopp saw them lose or draw a number of games by virtue of their newly high intensive attacking ethos leaving them naively open at the back... If we were dropping points because of things like this, it'd be entirely understandable, and significantly fewer people would have issue with Ole... But we're not. We're dropping points because we dont seem to have any attacking plan, and create incredibly few chances.I just don't think we are good enough yet to blow these teams away from home late in games. We haven't been for years. I don't believe it's an attitude thing. It's just a group of young players with fairly fragile confidence trying to get themselves up to the standard. In a couple of years Rashford probably gets on the end of a couple of those Dan James crosses against Southampton. That's my take on it.
This highly fashionable idea that a manager must come in with a his own revolutionary tactical approach every time doesn't really make sense to me either. Pep took over a very good squad and still ended up having to change the whole thing before winning anything. It took Klopp 3 years to build that Liverpool squad to the stage where they weren't shit as well. If Ole spends as well in the next couple of windows as he has so far we will become a good team without having to reinvent football.
Even then, it would be better to play Lingard/ Pereira in a 3 with Pogba, so they can sweep up for him instead of having him sweep up for them. The 4-2-3-1 with Pogba at the base just makes no sense to me.re: Pogba the only thing I can think (or hope) is he played him deep because he doesn't want to play Matic there, and Fred wasn't ready. I really hope with Fred back now he'll revert to Pogba further forward.