Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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roonster09

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Why do you think so? It seems we have the most forgiving fans in the world when it comes to managers, even now there are still some defending the non-manager in charge. Surely everyone understands the importance of reaching Top 4 this season, and if there's one manager available who can achieve that it's Allegri.
Because his football is not good, plays boring football.

ManUtd fans being most forgiving fans is a myth btw, took less than half a season to turn against Moyes, tolerated Van Gaal as his first season was good and showed progress, by mid second season people turned against him. Same with Jose, by feb second season people turned against him.
 

Halal Jalal

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Why would anyone want Allegri? The guy coasted on having the best talent in Italy, and he's another defensive manager. We already saw him with a club in a similar position to us (Milan), and he was their Moyes according to some Milan fans. United's problem has been getting the side to play attractive football, and a defensive pragmatic manager isn't going to cut it. Get a more progressive manager.
Maybe you should look up Allegri's record with Milan before posting comments like that. He only failed after his team was gutted by incompetent (and broke) board. We're in desperate need of results and Allegri is a result-oriented manager with experience, tactical knowledge and man-management skill to guide us to top 4 - everything that Ole lacks. I'd love nothing more than get someone like Nagelsmann and see him become the next Klopp for us, but there's no time for gambles right now.
 

dev1l

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Because his football is not good, plays boring football.

ManUtd fans being most forgiving fans is a myth btw, took less than half a season to turn against Moyes, tolerated Van Gaal as his first season was good and showed progress, by mid second season people turned against him. Same with Jose, by feb second season people turned against him.
I wouldn't mention the word "forgiving" over here. For some it may sound blasphemous, for others even abusive language :)
 

Tony Banta

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Remove the fact he's a club legend, and not a single person would be defending him, not one. He's getting away with this because of who he is.
I tend to agree with this. He wouldn’t have even been considered for the caretaker role if he hadn’t played for us.
 

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Don't think Ole is up to it, but if he had a great support network around him he might get away with it. Unfortunately for him he hasn't. Someone who was a failed manager and coached years ago, a rookie coach and someone who is used to coaching kids. How did they expect that to work?
By wishing hard enough?

The animated communication that was perpetually going on in the dugout in Ole’s early days has all but dried up. They no longer seem to have any confidence in each other, which can’t be helping the players.
There will be people on here who can remember the post Sir Matt days and how that went. They used to spend money then, every flavour of the month striker used to end up at OT and look where it got us.
I remember exactly how it went, and the only flavour of the month strikers we signed were MacDougall and Birtles, nearly a decade apart.

Between summer ‘68 (Morgan) and spring ‘72 (Buchan) United signed only one first team player (Ure); and he wasn’t even wanted by the manager. There was a complete failure to replace a single one of the “unholy trinity” of Crerand, Foulkes and Stiles. Had that been done in a systematic manner, the crazy panic buying of later years wouldn’t have been needed.
 

dev1l

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Context please :D
If the club listens to some of the posters over here, we would sack the managers and 10 players after every bad performance.
They switch on the telly and expect by "right" that the manager selects the team they want, the team wins and plays attractive football. :)
 

Mainoldo

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No, I said he wanted replacement, not that he had a plan for striker. I dont know which player he wanted but it's just foolish to assume everything is reported by the media.

Not even sure what's the point of all this. Ole himself said twice that he wanted striker but we have to ignore that because media didnt link us with players.

Anyways good day. So bored of this.
No don’t run off. Actually answer the question. You said he wanted a replacement? What bloody difference does it make what word you used? Wanting a replacement and having a plan for a striker last time I checked is the same bloody thing.

Yes I can hide too and say know one knows what’s actually going on unless your inside the club. Which also means are opinions are both as invalid as eachother and what’s the point of coming on here?

He said twice he wanted a striker and ‘good sources’ around the club said it was Mandzukic he was after.

So using Exhibit A & B.. is that good planning in your eyes?
 

Volumiza

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Did you watch the game last night? (Not meant in a patronising way). What did you think?
Yes matey, I did watch and it wasn't enjoyable in the slightest and don't worry, I'm a big boy and not easily patronised.

Rojo offered nothing at left back, didnt cross or overlap - except was seen wildly shooting from 40 yards several times. Lingard was anonymous. Fred is embarrassing, playing simple passes to the wings into touch etc. Experienced but not too good.
I'm not sure why anyone would think Rojo would offer us much at LB. There's a reason why he has never broken into our first team on a regular basis. Lingard was anonymous because as a lot of people on here quite rightly point out, he's not actually that good a footballer. Certainly not good enough for the expectations of a lot of our fanbase. Fred ... Fred ... well ... what on earth is he?

I think our problems are multiple. We are quite predictable to play against - we lack creativity in the final third and our wingers cut inside, so in defending against us you just force them wide and have us move the ball around in front of you all day without getting anywhere. Teams don't attack us because they know we want to counter. And i don't see the personnel to really get out of that in the squad at the moment.
Agreed. I've said in another post that we are not a threat to teams above us and teams below us see us as points to be had. We look easy to play against.

I think we have a solid back 6 building, unfortunately i think they come under a lot of pressure because out ball retention and passing range in midfield isn't the best. We almost seem to try and bypass any build up play with the quick balls over the top. As soon as a team gets two banks of 4 and we need to do any pass and move in the final third we don't. Its like subuteo soccer. We are going the right way - modern football is playing 3 forwards rather than ‘strikers and wingers’.
I like our defence actually, I think we've got a really good fist team back 4 and some good subs. Sadly, they are often exposed by our lack of midfield. 3 forwards may be the way we are heading but at the minute our 3 aren't good enough. At the minute, I would actually prefer Lukaku up front with DJ and Rashford either side, but that's just my opinion matey.

I think Ole deserves the chance to get a couple more players in. I’m not yet completely sold and i think he was tactically naive against west ham, by not playing a different tactic or formation to mitigate our lack of wide players. But i don't think sacking him solves anything.
I've said on other posts that I would give him the January window and then the rest of the season and I stick by that but if the results and performances keep going this way until december then I genuinely believe the board should act. By then Ole's position would be untenable.

Out of interest, if you think he should go, who would you replace him with and what can they do to get this squad of players firing?
Who knows? Poch is an obvious choice but is he the man for this mess? I don't know. Erik Ten Hag? Probably. Eddie Howe? I like him but would be a gamble, although not as big a gamble as the board took with Ole.

And what they would do to get them firing? Exactly what they do at their current clubs. Things I can only speculate about as I'm not a football manager, just a fan. But in January, the club 100% needs to buy at least a MF and a proven goalscoring forward.
 

Bruno8

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Our squad depth is too think such that even the best manager will struggle to make the team play better. Too many players are in the potential stage, very few established players who are currently struggling for form and young players who are at best still very very average. We need to buy in January if possible otherwise it wont end well
 

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I watched a programme on BT the other week about when United went down and I am inclined to agree with you. Some of the football they played was fabulous and he brought young players into the side. Two wingers in Hill and Coppell. A commanding captain in Martin Buchan, a clinical striker in Stuart Pearson.
Great times :drool:

I’m not sure he could have kept it going though. He was a bit of a flibbertigibbet with a history of falling out with people.
 

AneRu

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Did you watch the game last night? (Not meant in a patronising way). What did you think? We were let down by our more senior players. Pogba was a bit rusty and missed a couple of free headers. He just needs match fitness hence why he was playing.

Rojo offered nothing at left back, didnt cross or overlap - except was seen wildly shooting from 40 yards several times. Lingard was anonymous. Fred is embarrassing, playing simple passes to the wings into touch etc. Experienced but not too good.

I think our problems are multiple. We are quite predictable to play against - we lack creativity in the final third and our wingers cut inside, so in defending against us you just force them wide and have us move the ball around in front of you all day without getting anywhere. Teams don't attack us because they know we want to counter. And i don't see the personnel to really get out of that in the squad at the moment.

I think we have a solid back 6 building, unfortunately i think they come under a lot of pressure because out ball retention and passing range in midfield isn't the best. We almost seem to try and bypass any build up play with the quick balls over the top. As soon as a team gets two banks of 4 and we need to do any pass and move in the final third we don't. Its like subuteo soccer. We are going the right way - modern football is playing 3 forwards rather than ‘strikers and wingers’.

I think Ole deserves the chance to get a couple more players in. I’m not yet completely sold and i think he was tactically naive against west ham, by not playing a different tactic or formation to mitigate our lack of wide players. But i don't think sacking him solves anything.

Out of interest, if you think he should go, who would you replace him with and what can they do to get this squad of players firing?
We keep on saying that the players aren't good but against a team like Rochdale that doesn't count. They are 17th in league 1 and have just been pasted 6-0 by another League 1 team and they take us to penalties at Old Trafford? Players like Rojo, Fred and Jones whilst bad have played in big Cup, CL, PL and some in World Cup matches. If Ole thinks they are not good there is no evidence of that because it is he who keeps on playing them sometimes at the expense of deserving youths and has defended their quality on numerous occasions. Yesterday he could have removed Lingard earlier and brought in Garner whilst pushing Pogba forward, you could actually see us losing control of the game minutes after we scored and I remember privately thinking that we needed a change in midfield than bang its a goal. The team is radarless on the pitch and the manager just sits and watches whilst games slip away.

We saw the same with Moyes in his ill fated season, people made noise about a rebuild and him needing hos own players until he believed it and just wrote off the season. Same is happening with Ole and it will create unnecessary bitterness when he is eventually sacked because the way we are going I can see City and Pool really humiliating us.
 

red thru&thru

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How have we all missed this. Woodward has played a blinder. Get Ole in for a year, work on a long term plan of recruiting young hungry players that fit into the 'Utd way' then get the new manager in who has the same philospy of playing and move Ole to DOF.
The man who laughs last, laughs loudest!
Is this a theory that is going around now, that Ole will be DoF?
 

SteveW

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"Lack of coaching"

I've probably seen this posted a hundred times now the last couple of days. "Lack of coaching"....what does it even mean? Do you think Ole, Phelan, Carrick and McKenna are just fecking around at Carrington? Letting the players run around freely while they sit and sip tea?

Anyone who has played football at any organized capacity know that it is not rocket science. If you play LB, MF or CF, even at 10 years old you largely know how to perform your role in the team, so its not like these players are completely unable to perform their role unless the manager tells them specifically how to do it. They are not toddlers! If you played football you also know that training is largely the same mundane stuff like fitness drills, technical drills or set pieces, and its not that different in top level football. Here the manager/coaches plays a part because they decide what they focus on so the team can improve in areas they need improving. Its a poorly kept secret that Ole was not happy with the fitness levels of the squad when he took over, and we heard rumors of players complaining about "running a lot" in training so we have to assume the focus has been fitness, which was clearly needed.

For what it's worth, i met a guy who is best mates with Daniel Berg Haestad (played under Ole in Molde) and he told me Ole mostly trusts his coaches to do training, while he observed in the back and very often he did not even show his face on the training field at all.

So because we have focused on fitness the last couple of months, does that mean that all prior knowledge or technical skill of these players just went out the window? No, im not buying that. And regarding our coaches, Ferguson kept Phelan around for years so hes clearly not some clueless clown. Carrick and McKenna i dont know, but Carrick is one of the most intelligent footballers i've seen play, so i have no doubt he knows a thing or two about how to organize a midfield

Then comes stuff like team selection and in game tactics. Team selection is not rocket science. Hell, every armchair expert on this forum has an opinion about it so i would go as far as saying team selections are easy and yes even the famous tea lady can do them. In game tactics is more tricky, but its not the end all be all of football management. I would say the best in class is probably Mouhrino. Hes a reactive tactician, but he regularly outfoxed Ferguson between 04-08 and even here we saw some glimpses of his tactical skills, like completely shutting down Hazard with Herrera which spawned a whole lot of memes. Ferguson was not even that great of a tactician, yet he will go down as the greatest manager of all time because he had two key skills:

Squad building and man management/leadership skills. Anyone read his book? Its a reason he went all over the world to hold leadership seminars because that is what made him a good manager. That and his ability to identify and recruit the right players was what made him so successful. If coaching/tactic is all it takes, then it means everyone can become a pro footballer and any decent manager can turn any league 1 side into world beaters only by the power of their training methods and divine tactical knowledge. If coaching and tactics is all there is, then it means Pep could make MK Dons PL winners, but we all know thats not true.

Pep and Klopp as an example are both pretty unique in the tactical department as they are breaking new ground with their tactical system, but do people here sincerely believe that alone is what makes City and Liverpool good? What sets City and Liverpool apart today is not tactics, its the fact that their players will run themselves into to the ground and they are also insanely talented. Because Pep and Klopp are great at building squads and they are great at motivating their players. Not because of some superb tactical secrets that we mere mortals can not understand.

Man management (or lack thereof) is the reason Jose failed here. When things did not go his way, he had a complete meltdown and we all know how shite the atmosphere was in and around the club. There is no doubt Jose is a great manager, but when things got as bad as they did, there was not really any other choice than letting him go. Then Ole came and we won 10 games in a row. That was probably more down to relief than Ole being a superb motivator, but it still happened. Not going to defend the recent results and the way we have been playing, because its been shite, but is that only down to Ole and his (lack of) man management? The players seems to love him, maybe he is to nice? My point is thats its a bit to early to tell if Ole can motivate his players or not. The second half of last season is a write off since the season was over by Christmas anyway so i would not read to much into what happened then, both positive or negative. This season has started really badly, but building a winning mentality is not done overnight, and even if you do have the ability to motivate and get the very best out of your players, you need the right type of players...which brings me to my last point

This squad is bad. Really, really bad. Its a hodgepodge of four former managers and it is painfully obvious that too many lack both the character and the skill to play for a club with high ambitions or they are simply past it. Giving Sanchez that massive contract also hurt us badly and caused a lot of unrest and unhappiness in the team since the other players found it unfair that a player that barely featured was paid 2x or 3x as much as them. Of all the bad decisions the club has made post Fergie, this was probably the worst one

Rojo, Baily and Jones are injury prone as feck, and despite showing glimpses of quality all of them regularly have brain farts, something you really dont want defenders to be having too often. Lindelof i dont know. He looked good for a while, but has now reverted to being timid and weak. Young is a good professional, but a former winger turned fullback and we all know hes past it. Tuanzebe and TFM are still very young so not much can be said about them.

That leaves Shaw, AWB and Maguire. The latter two have been our best defenders this season and both were brought here by Ole

Midfield is even worse. Fred, Pereira and Lindgaard are not Premier League quality players. Not even close. Mata and Matic are well past it, Gomes and Garner are unblooded teenagers, which leaves Pogba, McTomminay and James. We all know how good Pogba can be, but he seems to have some serious primadonna problems about him and seems to be more about himself than the team. McTomminay is alright, but not really someone we would have seen as a first team regular in a Fergie side. Then we have James, probably one of the few bright spots so far this season and he was brought here from the fecking Championship. When a Championship player comes in and shows up supposed PL stars then you know something is not right

We are super thin in attack, we knew this when the season started and now injuries have made it even worse. Rashford and Martial are alright, but they are both super inconsistent and Greenwood is just a kid. Pretty far from the days of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov eh? Our squad is not top 4, its not even top 6. Thats how bad it has gotten. The game yesterday was pretty telling because usually in cup ties like these were PL sides face lower league teams you can clearly see the difference in quality between the players, but that was hard to see yesterday...simply because so many of these players are not that much better than the Rochdale players

Ole gutted the squad this summer and some of the responsibility lies with him, but most of it lies with Ed and the former managers. People say this is as bad as Moyes, but people seems to forget that Moyes inhereited the PL winners that had players like Rooney, RvP, Vidic, Nani, Kagawa and Evra. Players that would improve the current United immensely. Getting rid of so many players at once has left us utterly bare bones, but it had to be done sooner or later and its clear this was about thinking in the long term rather than the short term. Ole says hes happy with the squad to the press, but thats clearly not true and the alternative would be to say "No most of these players are shite and are going to get axed pretty soon" does not build squad harmony does it? If Ole is actually happy with the squad, then hes an idiot and there is simply no hope, but i really doubt that is the case.

Considering the dire state our club and our squad was in, making us look good again within one summer was always an impossible task. Out net spend this summer was only 70 million, but i'd rather we spend time and sign the right players, rather than sign more players like Fred, Sanchez, Matic and Lukaku. And as i said, there is no way Ole can be happy with the current squad. If he is, then hes clearly insane

Now, this wall of text is not some grand defense from some Ole fanboy. To be honest, if he was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Poch, i would be just as happy. But i really doubt changing managers now would do us any good. So hypothetically, say we get Poch and he fails to get into the top 4? "Unacceptable. Sack him" cries the Caf. Hes been at Spurs 5 years now and they have started the season just as badly as us, with a much better squad. He would come in, fail to get into top 4 because the team is not even a halfway finished article, then the fans would turn on him because nothing but instant success is good enough it seems.

After the summer we all knew it was going to be a long and painful season. The second we see signs of players downing tools because Ole cant motivate them, or if Ole is truly happy with the squad hes got here, then he needs to be replaced immediately, but right now i dont see what benefits that would bring. We cant go on sacking and hiring new managers every 1-2 years, especially now consider the state of our squad. As i said, i would be just as happy if we got Poch tomorrow, but when he failed to get into the top 4 come May, the narrative would shift from him being a savior to "the job being to big for him" or something like that and we would start looking for yet another manager
Good post. A lot of supporters don't seem willing or able to wait through the process of rebuilding this crap squad Ole has inherited. So they look for scapegoats and throw around vague criticisms without backing any of it up.

People must have known we were an injury or two away from trouble when the season started. No amount of coaching will make the likes of Matic, Fred, Pereira, Lingard or Mata good enough. But because the board were stingy we've ended up relying heavily on all of them with predictable results. It's not about tactics or coaching. It's about relying on several crap players at once.
 
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Alabaster Codify7

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He did resign whilst at Cardiff I don't know how he can not see that he is only taking the club backwards


Cardiff was a nothing job for him - this is literally his dream job, the reason he got into management in the first place.

Resigning from Cardiff was like breaking up with a 4/10 one-night-stand you happened to somehow end up in a brief relationship with. Resigning from United would be like divorcing the love of your life, it will NEVER happen. He'll be fired.
 

Raw

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Is this a theory that is going around now, that Ole will be DoF?
I don't think people know what exactly the DoF would do to be honest. Ole has no experience in such a role. It's not like all they'd do is identify targets that suit the clubs philosophy, it's basically managing the footballing side of things for the whole club on all levels. It'd be nice if he was truly able to fulfil the role but with how turbulent we've been, I'd rather have someone who's got the experience.
 

Revaulx

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I was one of the first to want van Gaal out, but I think he was a decent appointment. Someone to come in and coach an actual style of play, which he did. His methods were outdated, and the end result was bad, but the ideas were there. We actually went into every game - regardless of the level of opposition - wanting to inflict our style on them.

His sacking was completely fair, but hiring José squandered all of his work in getting us to become a possession based team. It set us back years again in the long haul.

What we should've done was hire a manager who had the same beliefs in possession football, but was more progressive and up-to-date than van Gaal to build on what he had already coached. If we had done that instead of going for short term success in José, I think we'd be in a much better position right now.
Yup. We appointed Jose because he was a big name, and available. Asking why he was available wasn’t part of the process :wenger:

A large part of why LvG failed was because his recruitment was largely terrible. The club learned absolutely nothing from this as even worse mistakes were made under his successor.
 

Enigma_87

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I didn't say he wanted CF, I said he wanted replacement for Lukaku and I believe it as manager himself said it twice in 2 interviews. Ole didn't say in general, he was asked about Pogba and Lukaku, he answered to the specific question. Later he was asked about Lukaku when he gave interview to Norweign paper.
Lukaku is CF though? Replacing him should be with a player of the same position otherwise it doesn't make sense?

Ole opted for 4-2-3-1 since the beginning of the season. In any case that formation needs a CF and the call was made during the summer that one of Rashford/Martial will occupy that position. The call was made that he was going to be replaced internally and most likely Mason was considered stepping up.

Either way I'm not sure you can pin it on the board this time around. I can understand if Ole was vetoed on certain transfer, but he really wasn't. Dybala didn't want to come. Probably Eriksen too. Maybe you can shift the blame to the scouting network that it didn't give realistic targets or whoever 'acts' as director of football, but realistically Woodward and co can't identify targets and buy players on their own because they haven't got a clue.

Even if we brought in Longstaff, would he made any difference now? I'm not sure how the board stood in Ole's way this Summer. We can both agree that spending 300m alone this Summer was never realistic.
 

Enigma_87

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So you'd want him to come out and say he's not happy then ?
I expect him when he says he's happy with the board and he's happy with the squad(giving him all the needs to succeed) to bear the responsibility when we fail. Just like Jose, LvG or Moyes before him.
 

Enigma_87

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It makes sense.
Ok, but who he wasn't given or how the board are at fault here?

We chased one player that he wouldn't want to come.

If he wanted Longstaff badly probably the board could also allowed that, we did spend circa 50m on another youngster.

All other players bar Eriksen and Dybala were pretty attainable and at very reasonable prices.
 

roonster09

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No don’t run off. Actually answer the question. You said he wanted a replacement? What bloody difference does it make what word you used? Wanting a replacement and having a plan for a striker last time I checked is the same bloody thing.

Yes I can hide too and say know one knows what’s actually going on unless your inside the club. Which also means are opinions are both as invalid as eachother and what’s the point of coming on here?

He said twice he wanted a striker and ‘good sources’ around the club said it was Mandzukic he was after.

So using Exhibit A & B.. is that good planning in your eyes?
Run off? :lol: More like bored reading same posts, posted 100 times.

Ole said he wanted replacement in mid july, Mandzukic was linked only 2-3 days before window closed when Lukaku to Juventus was on.

And no, wanting a replacement and having a plan for a striker is not same. Not sure where you checked it, maybe you should check again.
 

roonster09

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Ok, but who he wasn't given or how the board are at fault here?

We chased one player that he wouldn't want to come.

If he wanted Longstaff badly probably the board could also allowed that, we did spend circa 50m on another youngster.

All other players bar Eriksen and Dybala were pretty attainable and at very reasonable prices.
How would I know who was not given? When you have managers saying what he wanted, why should I assume which player he wanted but wasn't given. That's not even something to worry about. Point was Ole didn't want to replace Lukaku when he clearly said he wanted replacement.
 

Revaulx

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What in Gods name is a flibbertigibbet?

I like it though!
Someone who talks a lot but can’t stick at a task :)

His final act in the transfer market, signing Jimmy Greenhoff and selling Gerry Daly, was the ultimate quick fix. It got us more goals and a Cup Final win over Liverpool :drool: but severely weakened the midfield which didn’t recover until Wilkins was signed. Who spent most of his time injured.
 

SteveW

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Lukaku is CF though? Replacing him should be with a player of the same position otherwise it doesn't make sense?

Ole opted for 4-2-3-1 since the beginning of the season. In any case that formation needs a CF and the call was made during the summer that one of Rashford/Martial will occupy that position. The call was made that he was going to be replaced internally and most likely Mason was considered stepping up.

Either way I'm not sure you can pin it on the board this time around. I can understand if Ole was vetoed on certain transfer, but he really wasn't. Dybala didn't want to come. Probably Eriksen too. Maybe you can shift the blame to the scouting network that it didn't give realistic targets or whoever 'acts' as director of football, but realistically Woodward and co can't identify targets and buy players on their own because they haven't got a clue.

Even if we brought in Longstaff, would he made any difference now? I'm not sure how the board stood in Ole's way this Summer. We can both agree that spending 300m alone this Summer was never realistic.
Probably. We only have 2 fit for purpose midfielders. He could have replaced Herrera's energy.

It's basically been McTomminay all on his own since Pogba got injured. McTominnay and Longstaff would have allowed Pogba to play further forward and create/score goals. Instead it's been the likes of Lingard, Mata and Pereira taking turns doing nothing in that position.
 

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I don't think that's what he wants, I think he is not capable of translating what he wants into performances. He won't be the first or last one either. Getting what you want from the team is what makes coach/manager very good, that's the most important attribute, something at which Ole is failing.
Exactly. His Molde teams played good football if our Norwegian brethren are to be believed.
 

Paxi

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He has to go. Now. There’s no point in trying to analyse anything. We’ve appointed a butcher to perform a brain surgery.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Did he really say that crap about how United always do things the hard way?
Yeah we really did things the hard way winning everything in sight for 2 decades.
Tired of these stupid cliches.
 

Enigma_87

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How would I know who was not given? When you have managers saying what he wanted, why should I assume which player he wanted but wasn't given. That's not even something to worry about. Point was Ole didn't want to replace Lukaku when he clearly said he wanted replacement.
What is the timeframe between those quotes? He said that he's happy with the squad before the season kicked off. You are discounting the idea that he could've changed his mind and thought some of the youngsters are good enough to step up?
 

dev1l

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This rebuild will definitely take long. Fergie left us an ageing team with many key players like Rio and Vidic nearing end of their careers.
Then Moyes took over but I feel he wasn't properly backed in the transfer market. At the time I feel we needed 4 new players. Instead we left it late and ended up paying more for Fellaini.
From that point onwards we didn't recover. LVG with a totally different style from his predecessor to his credit tried to build a team aim for the longer term. But he knew he didn't have much time and had to bring in big ready made players. Due to his strict tactics LVG clashed with senior players. He is a great manager when you have a young team and you re patient.
Then we changed style again bringing Mourinho - who is focused exclusively on the short term. As with other clubs he leaves a mess behind him.
Usually there are "cycles" within a healthy squad. Younger players taking over senior players roles, until they re eventually replaced themselves.
This didn't happen with us since Fergie left. Team remained reliant on Jones,Smalling, young etc because the replacements brought in didn't perform. So that cycle was broken. It s not Young s fault if he s still playing, it s the lack of planning.
Now Ole is picking the pieces of the rot left behind. It won't be easy neither for Ole nor for anyone else. There are too many things to change. He needed to replace not only the older guard (Smalling, young, Jones etc) but also recent arrivals who haven't settled in eg Sanchez.
In an ideal scenario the club needed 10 out and 10 in which is not practical.

I don't know if his footballing knowledge is enough for a team like us but you have to credit him with the changes he s making.

And it s not over yet. Results and performances will take time
 

roonster09

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What is the timeframe between those quotes? He said that he's happy with the squad before the season kicked off. You are discounting the idea that he could've changed his mind and thought some of the youngsters are good enough to step up?
Yeah sure why not. Maybe he thought Pogba should leave and Garner should replace him, who knows we might do that in Jan as Garner was brilliant for U23s.
 

Enigma_87

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Probably. We only have 2 fit for purpose midfielders. He could have replaced Herrera's energy.

It's basically been McTomminay all on his own since Pogba got injured. McTominnay and Longstaff would have allowed Pogba to play further forward and create/score goals. Instead it's been the likes of Lingard, Mata and Pereira taking turns doing nothing in that position.
I have not followed Newcastle that much this year, but he has 3 starts(1 subbed off) and in the last two games he was on the bench/not in the squad. So probably he's either injured or not good enough yet to start for Newcastle?
 

NJM78

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Someone who talks a lot but can’t stick at a task :)

His final act in the transfer market, signing Jimmy Greenhoff and selling Gerry Daly, was the ultimate quick fix. It got us more goals and a Cup Final win over Liverpool :drool: but severely weakened the midfield which didn’t recover until Wilkins was signed. Who spent most of his time injured.
Cheers, might call my Mrs that later.

Yes I'm not too clued up on these years besides watching old highlights and documentaries.
My clearest memories go as far back to Big Ron as 7 year old. Luckily for me only 2013 post SAF have been a chore...or be it a bloody big one so far!
 

red4ever 79

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What is the timeframe between those quotes? He said that he's happy with the squad before the season kicked off. You are discounting the idea that he could've changed his mind and thought some of the youngsters are good enough to step up?
Who cares about time frames. Utd knew at the end of last season or even at the beginning of this season Lukaku would be leaving. They took him on tour and he didnt play a single minute whilst Utd and Inter were negotiating. Ole was asked during one of the press conferences on the pre season tour about Lukaku leaving, and he explicity said "any player that leaves, will have to be replaced"

No one knows what has happened behind the scenes. Did Ole say to Ed it's ok we go with Rashy, or did Ed say to Ole, no more money to be spent. Either way that decision will cost us dearly this season as the team couldnt score in a brothel
 

Enigma_87

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Who cares about time frames. Utd knew at the end of last season or even at the beginning of this season Lukaku would be leaving. They took him on tour and he didnt play a single minute whilst Utd and Inter were negotiating. Ole was asked during one of the press conferences on the pre season tour about Lukaku leaving, and he explicity said "any player that leaves, will have to be replaced"

No one knows what has happened behind the scenes. Did Ole say to Ed it's ok we go with Rashy, or did Ed say to Ole, no more money to be spent. Either way that decision will cost us dearly this season as the team couldnt score in a brothel
It's about priorities though if we didn't have more than 150m to spend. Since Ole and the whole club knew Lukaku would leave even last season we had enough time to prepare and prioritize what positions we should strengthen.

If you want to pin it on Woodward that we had to buy CB and a RB with 150m it's ok, but IMO that's on the coaching staff.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking at. Ole has talked a big game about imposing an identity on us but we STILL look like 11 strangers who have not been given specific instructions. All we do is run a bit more.

Guys - Palace, Southampton, Astana, West Ham, Rochdale.

Take those five games and imagine we had Moyes, LVG or Jose in charge. The verdict would be a unanimous this manager is done, he needs to go.

The board are shit. The squad is shit. Neither of those things impact a manager's ability to be able to play something resembling Premier League football against a team 17th in League One. Inexcusable.

This is like the most boring moments of LVG and Jose combined, with the added baffling hopelessness vibe we got from Moyes. Listen to Ole's conference after the game, the dopey smile on his face, it's clear to me that this is a man out of ideas, out of his depth and out of patience with his players trying to plaster a smile over those feelings.

That would be the only sensible solution right now so you can bet we won't even approach him.

I was actually thinking last night after the game. I don't see the point in this club targeting young, progressive managers at this point - our midfield and attacking options are SO BAD that none of them would be able to impose a modern identity on us. All of them would struggle, not to Ole's level but struggle they would. We simply lack good attacking options, including midfielders.

As much as it pains me a bit to say, part of me looks at the following defence:

DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf/Axel, Shaw

And thinks our most realistic way back up the table is to: - hire a defensive mastermind like Allegri and give him £80m to spend on a world-class CDM like prime Kante. Aim to grind out 1-0, 2-0 victories until we're able to attract better attackers.

It'll be awful to watch but it might be our only hope. Play to our strengths - our strongest area of the pitch is sadly, our defence.
 

SteveW

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I have not followed Newcastle that much this year, but he has 3 starts(1 subbed off) and in the last two games he was on the bench/not in the squad. So probably he's either injured or not good enough yet to start for Newcastle?
Still working his way back to form/fitness as far as I know. We are stuck in this situation until January at least. Chances are if he's good enough he'll be back in business well before that. Not signing a midfielder was always gonna potentially kill us.

Matic, Fred, Periera, Mata, Lingard. What a group.
 

AneRu

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Good post. A lot of supporters don't seem willing or able to wait through the process of rebuilding this crap squad Ole has inherited. So they look for scapegoats and through around vague criticisms without backing any of it up.

People must have known we were an injury or two away from trouble when the season started. No amount of coaching will make the likes of Matic, Fred, Pereira, Lingard or Mata good enough. But because the board were stingy we've ended up relying heavily on all of them with predictable results. It's not about tactics or coaching. It's about relying on several crap players at once.
We all knew this but who keeps picking them? Its not like the fan base would turn on him if he just binned them and played a couple of reserve team players to supplement the players who are playing at an acceptable level. In 2005 when Fergie sacked Keane he turned to John O'shea as his DM and Giggs in CM but he took us to 2nd. Now we have a plethora of youngsters chopping at the bit, with Axel being the one most ready but has Ole ever started him as a DM? No because he prefers Matic and that's on him. When the few reliable players we have get injured Ole turns to a group he knows will never be good enough. To me that's its reflective of him lacking courage and imagination because expecting good performances from those players is just like sucking water from a rock but he keeps on doing it.

If we failed this season building up players like Axel, Garner, Laird, TFM, Gomes and Greenwood I think most will find it acceptable but to fail whilst repeating what we know won't work is just cowardice. Its not like we need to play 8-10 youngsters either, its just maybe 3 or 4 at best to supplement the reliable ones we do have and complete a competent 11. For example put Jones/Rojo as first change defender on the bench, Axel/TFM (when he is fit) as DM, push Pogba up and play Gomes as a right sided playmaker like we did with Mata under LVG.
 
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