Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Shame your post is nothing but a bunch of narrow minded, shortsighted rhetoric, just like most of the glory hunting fans that smear this forum with their whinging and moaning.

There's a bigger picture to see here, and many posters have pointed it out very succinctly.. To me it's obvious. If you can't see it then what can I or anyone else say?

“United always make it the hard way? “
His plan is to play the “United way” with high flying wingers?
442?
The class of 92?
“Your job now is to stand behind your next manager?”

What else chief? Got any more cliches? I’m all ears.

Now that would make us all really terrible glory hunters then wouldn’t it? since we’ve been shite for the past six years and it’s only getting worse.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

It was less than 12 months we had Jose Mourinho, is he not a half-decent manager? His reputation would certainly suggest so, yet we looked no better than a midtable team under him.

Well we look like a lower half/relegation team under Ole.

Mid table got Jose the sack so why is Ole any different?

 

[Mainoldo]

He’ll be lucky off he makes it to December. He will lose the next two games.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He’ll be lucky off he makes it to December. He will lose the next two games.

And if he doesn’t you have to run naked through the high street you negative git

 

[Jackal981]

We're slightly better with 3 new signings.

We would have been slightly better again if we'd made two more midfield signings to replace Herrera and Fellaini.

We would've been better upfront if we'd replaced Lukaku.

I sense its Woodward to blame and as poor as I think Ole is tactically.... I think he's being used as a scapegoat by Woodward.

Woodward needs to go NOW.

Ole can go if he also thought we didn't need midfielders or a striker.

Ole declined to sign Bruno Fernandes IIRC because he has a low passing percentage. He genuinely thinks that Lingard and Mata are better options than Bruno. I know Bruno is not guaranteed to be a hit but surely he wont be worse than both of them ?? This tells all what we need to know about Ole management skill which is zero

 

[Mainoldo]

And if he doesn’t you have to run naked through the high street you negative git

Safe! I would say hopefully it’s not a cold night. But Solskjær ain’t turning shite round. So I’m good.

 

[Thiagoal]

Seeing his demeanour in the stand during games is so Moyesesque it’s scary! Looks likes rabbit in the headlights!

I like his signings so far though and would trust his ideas for squad development. would give him a DOF role with a modern coach that’s got a bit of charisma and able to get players playing for him

 

[Random Task]

Well we look like a lower half/relegation team under Ole.

Mid table got Jose the sack so why is Ole any different?

Because Jose wasted £400 million+ of the clubs money on useless players and had a more than reasonable timeframe of three years to create a winning formula, Ole hasn't even had one year yet. Not to mention the circumstances are wholly different; Jose built for the short-term, Ole is building for the long-term.

 

[Random Task]

He’ll be lucky off he makes it to December. He will lose the next two games.

Don't get your hopes up.

Martial, Shaw and Pogba are all in contention for a start against Arsenal, by all accounts, so a loss is by no means guaranteed.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Safe! I would say hopefully it’s not a cold night. But Solskjær ain’t turning shite round. So I’m good.

Haha but pogs back, he’s gonna ballon dor it on Monday.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Few more bad performances and losses and I can see him getting sacked, despite him not being the best out there, he wasn’t given a fair chance, which again, like I said about Mourinho’s situation and him not being backed, it falls on Ed and the board..

It already starting to feel like, each win is buying him little bit of time until the wins(very few) dry up and he gets sacked, just like lvg around Christmas (the Chelsea match) and Mourinho against Newcastle.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

so a loss is by no means guaranteed.

That’s a positive mental attitude

I think

 

[Random Task]

That’s a positive mental attitude

I think

We'll win 4-0.

Guaranteed.

 

[Denis79]

While some individuals might “not need a guidance to beat a league 1 team”, plenty others around them do. Every manager we had since SAF was either out of their depth or past their best. All of them were simply the wrong choices and it should not turn people into believing that nothing would change even if we had Pep in charge. We just need to find the right one. I don’t have much hope in our useless board but I believe some day even they will be able to make a good decision picking the manager.

I'm still behind Ole if I am being honest but there are a lot of buts. I never expected Ole to outshine 2 great (even if outdated) tactical managers, LVG and Mourinho. I however expected him to bring back some joy to our squad and with that 'unlocking' some of the potential in our players. Let's be honest, our 'star' players aren't much better now than under Mourinho, which is puzzling. "Our squad just can't play under a bitter Mourinho" "Their fitness levels are crap, that's why they are so bad" "They are played in the wrong position" " Player A needs a player type B to work" Excuse after excuse.

Ole isn't a tactical genius, nor an experienced manager but it looks so bad at times that it can't be all on him. Miss-placed passes that don't even belong in the Sunday league, slow lethargic football without any intent or inspiration, list goes on. We saw the exact same things under Mourinho. Ole might not be the manager to take us forward but neither are our 'star' players.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

We'll win 4-0.

Guaranteed.

I’ll always back our usual winning score against the arse, 3-1. More in hope than expectation as scoring one seems to be our limit these days unfortunately.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I didn't, because while I admit we're far from being a perfect machine and there's some margin to improve, I can't conclude after watching our games that our biggest problem has been the lack of coaching. Even with all our problems and limitations, we should have got more goals and better results these last two months. I think our biggest problem was coaching when under LVG we had our first shot after 60 minutes in some games, with people "celebrating" in the stands. Which is different from shooting 30 times in a game and scoring 1 goal.

The identity thing deserves a deep analysis because I think Solskjaer has been juggling since December, and it's not as easy as it seems. I think we saw his intentions from the start when we kept the ball and pressed high, and some goals even came from those recoveries high up the field. But then the team had physical problems and couldn't keep the high block effectively, so we played deep (and poorly) in the last months of the season, going from one box to the other one like without any sense of control. Even in the first months with him I remember us being hopeless in the last 10-20 minutes of games because the players looked shot.

This season we started badly against Chelsea in the first half and we played the underdog, but against Wolves, Palace and Southampton we were bossing the game for long periods, maybe Soton a bit less, and helped by the red card at the end. Then we had key injuries on an already thin team, and he decides to play a conservative game both against Leicester and West Ham, after a run of bad results and all the noise around the team. In the EL and the Cup he's playing mostly reserves and kids without experience, all of them at the same time, so there's an element of confusion there, lack of rhythm and experience that should be considered before taking general conclusions from these games.

In the end I see a manager who wants to develop a more offensive and energetic way of playing than what we had before, but he's working with lots of obstacles and limitations around. So he's walking on a rope and trying to find the balance between football and results, something highly difficult considering the situation and our moment as a club. I mean, for those who have forgotten already, having the second highest wages in football with such a mediocre team. If some wizard can guarantee us top 4 through a sophisticated brand of football with these players, in that context and while we rebuild the club... he will have better proposals than managing United for sure.

Reading your post, I think we might just understand football in a very different way - when you say we were 'bossing the game' against Wolves, Palace and So'ton I don't agree. We've developed a habit under Ole of holding onto possession and moving the ball around in a completely non threatening way. We crawl up the pitch but it's dead time because we don't have the ability to probe and then create openings and so inevitably it's just waiting for Rashford or James to make a run and a longer ball for them to run onto. In none of these games were we regularly finding ways through and creating good goal scoring opportunities. Similarly we weren't getting bossed either but that kind of ties into our issue with holding onto possession without doing anything with it, against WHUM we had 54% possession, 59% against So'ton, 71% against Palace....it's similar stats to LVG's tenure but at least with him we were rock solid at the back with 'worse' players.

If we think about what Ole's said in terms of what he wants, it's essentially direct counter attacking football with an aggressive press when we lose the ball. It's been a long time now for him to get some ideas across to the team and a full pre season but I see no evidence of coached pressing in our team. What's worse is you only have to look at So'ton to see what a coach with a track record in that type of football can do with players far less rated than ours - they were all over us until they ran out of gas and then were all over us again. I guess that's what I'm missing with us, posters are complaining about squad quality but why can So'ton do it and we can't, why is it so easy to see in an inferior team where there's a clear coaching direction. Yes, Hasenhuttl is a more extreme manager when it comes to pressing and Ole doesn't have to go to those levels but it seems like the extreme managers of the world, be it Klopp, Pep, Simeone or whoever are the ones who build successful teams.

 

[matt10000]

No one's absolving Ole of anything so don't worry about that. He was simply adding to the discussion.

For reference, here's his comment. Note the bolded part:




An interesting point to consider, no need to bash it just because it doesn't say Ole out.

Confidence and self belief is very important in sport. Does not matter what system, formation etc you put in place if there is a lack of confidence then it is a struggle to beat anyone as the doubts, hesitation and reluctance to try anything but the safe ball set in. All this shite about not coaching etc. seriously! Do you not think Ole and the backroom staff are not trying to implement their ideas? Of course they are but when the team are low on confidence and no player is willing to step up and grab the match by the balls everyone plays safe. Somehow we need to get a few results and then the ‘style of play’ will emerge more obvioulsy

 

[Mainoldo]

Confidence and self belief is very important in sport. Does not matter what system, formation etc you put in place if there is a lack of confidence then it is a struggle to beat anyone as the doubts, hesitation and reluctance to try anything but the safe ball set in. All this shite about not coaching etc. seriously! Do you not think Ole and the backroom staff are not trying to implement their ideas? Of course they are but when the team are low on confidence and no player is willing to step up and grab the match by the balls everyone plays safe. Somehow we need to get a few results and then the ‘style of play’ will emerge more obvioulsy

Pogba playing deep line of a two. That’s not confidence that’s tactics. Who’s smart idea was that? Play a number 10 without a number 10.. that’s not confidence either...

 

[Strelok]

Woodward needs to go NOW

Ed won't leave until the Glazers sell the club, period.

He will probably resign from the football matters and appoint a DOF though if the results go bad enough. In this scenario Ole will probably move to the new DOF instead of being sacked. Another caretaker will be appointed, maybe Phelan or Carrick.

IMO we'll definitely sign a CM in Jan but not the one we'd really want as nobody gonna sell their good ones in the middle of season and the hilarious inflated price demanded due to our obvious needs. So an average but somewhat proven and can play both DM/CM at the best TBH.

This season is basically written off already and we'll probably out of the race for top 4 by 2/3 of the season and will focus on the Europa Cup instead, same story with 1st season under Jose.

 

[Winmove]

Let's put ourselves in players point of view. They used to hear Jose Mourinho detailed tactical analysis before the game and what they listen from Ole is probably just "press hard , run hard, through ball to Rashy or to james , defend well , be confident and enjoy the game , let's get them boys". As a player you would have thought he is out of his depth right ?

 

[JFedic]

Let's put ourselves in players point of view. They used to hear Jose Mourinho detailed tactical analysis before the game and what they listen from Ole is probably just "press hard , run hard, through ball to Rashy or to james , defend well , be confident and enjoy the game , let's get them boys". As a player you would have thought he is out of his depth right ?

I would have thought that he was out of his depth, yes. Would you have thought Van Gaal was out of his depth if all of his tactical analysis were about sex masochism? I mean they most likely weren't, since we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[roonster09]

Let's put ourselves in players point of view. They used to hear Jose Mourinho detailed tactical analysis before the game and what they listen from Ole is probably just "press hard , run hard, through ball to Rashy or to james , defend well , be confident and enjoy the game , let's get them boys". As a player you would have thought he is out of his depth right ?

Wonder what was the detailed analysis, maybe it was "defend deep, long ball to Lukaku and wait for second ball, De Gea wear your superman cape."

 

[edgar allan]

Pogba playing deep line of a two. That’s not confidence that’s tactics. Who’s smart idea was that? Play a number 10 without a number 10.. that’s not confidence either...

Pogba is just passing his time with us, just playing with the minimum level of interest to not make it obvious.

 

[Bobcat]

I know our structure is broken and the board is useless but still, they don’t coach players and pick the team (I hope). Having a good progressive manager would improve things a bit. The argument that we should stick with Ole simply because we might fail another appointment is weird. Knowing that we will never gonna have a DoF, the only way to get out of this mess is to try until we succeed, even if it means sacking another 3 managers.

The thing is though, we cant just snap our fingers and conjure up a new manager. Also, consider the following

• People love to throw around the "10 months" number, but when you take over as caretaker midseason with a broken squad that you had no hand in creating, there is really feck all you can do in terms of shaping the team. He had 1 summer (so far) to do the job and its going to take a lot longer than that to shape this team into something good
• Everyone knows our squad is shite. Im sure all great managers out there would drop all they had and move to Manchester straight away to have the privilege to manage amazing talent like Fred, Lingaard and Pereira
• Everyone knows our squad needed a major overhaul. Its honestly much easier to make a list of players worth keeping rather than making a list of potential upgrades because outside of DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and maybe James and Rashford, the rest are not worth keeping.
• Everyone knows Ed is utterly incompetent. The amount of money he has wasted over the year on rubbish is astonishing
• Everyone knows the structure around the club is severely lacking. Owners that only care about the results of their fiscal year, a bean counter CEO who only cares about revenue and no Sporting director for years which means zero long term plan and vision
• Everyone knows Ole is a beloved character on OT. He still has his own banner there. An outsider will not get that much goodwill

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that? People love to say that there is no point in sticking with a failing manager, which is true, but these are pretty different circumstances than say Moyes. Moyes inherited a team that walked the league the season before, Ole inherited a complete mess of a squad and so will any new manager

By the way. I would have said exactly the same if for example Poch was our manager, because rebuilding this squad was never possible over one window. So what signals does sacking Ole now send? First of all it tells the players they are in now way responsible for their sub par performances and can keep on plodding along while continuing to collect their paychecks. It also sends a signal to any future potential manager that you'd better deliver the goods from day 1. Either that or you get axed

 

[dove]

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that?

But isn’t it basically the same at every single top club? No team in the world make 20 year long term plans or stick with the manager if it’s clearly not going anywhere. Majority other club fans don’t buy into that long term BS as like it’s been proven many times, you can be more successful changing managers every 2 years. And no, managers don’t need 5 years to implement their ideas.

 

[Wolff]

The thing is though, we cant just snap our fingers and conjure up a new manager. Also, consider the following

• People love to throw around the "10 months" number, but when you take over as caretaker midseason with a broken squad that you had no hand in creating, there is really feck all you can do in terms of shaping the team. He had 1 summer (so far) to do the job and its going to take a lot longer than that to shape this team into something good
• Everyone knows our squad is shite. Im sure all great managers out there would drop all they had and move to Manchester straight away to have the privilege to manage amazing talent like Fred, Lingaard and Pereira
• Everyone knows our squad needed a major overhaul. Its honestly much easier to make a list of players worth keeping rather than making a list of potential upgrades because outside of DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and maybe James and Rashford, the rest are not worth keeping.
• Everyone knows Ed is utterly incompetent. The amount of money he has wasted over the year on rubbish is astonishing
• Everyone knows the structure around the club is severely lacking. Owners that only care about the results of their fiscal year, a bean counter CEO who only cares about revenue and no Sporting director for years which means zero long term plan and vision
• Everyone knows Ole is a beloved character on OT. He still has his own banner there. An outsider will not get that much goodwill

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that? People love to say that there is no point in sticking with a failing manager, which is true, but these are pretty different circumstances than say Moyes. Moyes inherited a team that walked the league the season before, Ole inherited a complete mess of a squad and so will any new manager

By the way. I would have said exactly the same if for example Poch was our manager, because rebuilding this squad was never possible over one window. So what signals does sacking Ole now send? First of all it tells the players they are in now way responsible for their sub par performances and can keep on plodding along while continuing to collect their paychecks. It also sends a signal to any future potential manager that you'd better deliver the goods from day 1. Either that or you get axed

Very good post. Surely you will have to answer to bad coaching etc. from the posters on here down at Carrington every day taking notes. And I don’t agree with you with fans on either Ole’s or a new managers back. It is mostly a few reactionary FM managers on a web site.

 

[Abhinav]

Let's put ourselves in players point of view. They used to hear Jose Mourinho detailed tactical analysis before the game and what they listen from Ole is probably just "press hard , run hard, through ball to Rashy or to james , defend well , be confident and enjoy the game , let's get them boys". As a player you would have thought he is out of his depth right ?

I have seen some really mindless posts on Ole's managerial capabilities but this one takes the cake. The lack of self awareness, insight, and common sense people display while posting is mind boggling.

Imagine thinking that a top tier professional player who has played under the greatest manager and some of the best coaches for 10 years, has completed his coaching badges, has managed professionally for 10 years, can only come up with 'press hard, run hard ...' while giving tactical instructions to his players. I wonder why Man United does not employ some of these 'tactical geniuses' that we have on Redcafe, who think they know more about the game than top tier professionals.

 

[Enigma_87]

The thing is though, we cant just snap our fingers and conjure up a new manager. Also, consider the following

• People love to throw around the "10 months" number, but when you take over as caretaker midseason with a broken squad that you had no hand in creating, there is really feck all you can do in terms of shaping the team. He had 1 summer (so far) to do the job and its going to take a lot longer than that to shape this team into something good
• Everyone knows our squad is shite. Im sure all great managers out there would drop all they had and move to Manchester straight away to have the privilege to manage amazing talent like Fred, Lingaard and Pereira
• Everyone knows our squad needed a major overhaul. Its honestly much easier to make a list of players worth keeping rather than making a list of potential upgrades because outside of DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and maybe James and Rashford, the rest are not worth keeping.
• Everyone knows Ed is utterly incompetent. The amount of money he has wasted over the year on rubbish is astonishing
• Everyone knows the structure around the club is severely lacking. Owners that only care about the results of their fiscal year, a bean counter CEO who only cares about revenue and no Sporting director for years which means zero long term plan and vision
• Everyone knows Ole is a beloved character on OT. He still has his own banner there. An outsider will not get that much goodwill

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that? People love to say that there is no point in sticking with a failing manager, which is true, but these are pretty different circumstances than say Moyes. Moyes inherited a team that walked the league the season before, Ole inherited a complete mess of a squad and so will any new manager

By the way. I would have said exactly the same if for example Poch was our manager, because rebuilding this squad was never possible over one window. So what signals does sacking Ole now send? First of all it tells the players they are in now way responsible for their sub par performances and can keep on plodding along while continuing to collect their paychecks. It also sends a signal to any future potential manager that you'd better deliver the goods from day 1. Either that or you get axed

People need to realize that if a manager like Poch, Tuchel, Allegri, etc comes he will be allowed more time on the basis that he has done it before and comes with credentials and usually plan that wouldn't require much imagination to work.

The name itself buys you time and considering our board you are likely to get more time because we're patient enough.

If a figure like Klopp came I'm pretty sure he would be given more time due to his progressive ideas that would be visible from the off. Managers like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, etc will impose a style straight away and fans will get behind that regardless if he's an outsider or not.

People love winners or figures with character and charisma, not being United fan won't make a difference if they are successful.

United should move away from nepotism. This is actually the worst thing that we have been doing since Fergie retired. We aren't thinking in appointing the best man for the job but rely on Fergie to tell us who to appoint - despite his previous record of suggesting managers like Sven, O'Leary, McClaren.

We rely too much on old, archaic methods hoping to find the next Fergie, which won't happen. Football has moved on and if we don't follow that it will be the same shit Milan are at the moment. Appointing your uncle and aunt at the club because it's the 'United way', not because they are qualified for the job.

 

[Enigma_87]

I have seen some really mindless posts on Ole's managerial capabilities but this one takes the cake. The lack of self awareness, insight, and common sense people display while posting is mind boggling.

Imagine thinking that a top tier professional player who has played under the greatest manager and some of the best coaches for 10 years, has completed his coaching badges, has managed professionally for 10 years, can only come up with 'press hard, run hard ...' while giving tactical instructions to his players. I wonder why Man United does not employ some of these 'tactical geniuses' that we have on Redcafe, who think they know more about the game than top tier professionals.

If you think we are being coached professionally then why are we playing in a such way against League One side? And that is close to full strength side considering our injuries.

Is it players are shite always?

Why we can't take a decent corner? Surely 9 months are enough to do some drills and not play it short - cross right after, or play a moonball straight at the opposition?

Why can't we see some attacking moves and combinations against packed defence? The pattern was very clear to see last game - play it out wide, wait for support and another player coming in - pass it to him. Then recycle possession until you lose it or take a shot from 30 yards.

We're the team with most turnovers per game and with quite a margin, surely it can't all be on the players?

And the biggest question - why there is zero movement in the center of our attack? Surely if you say Ole is a world class coach or even a good one would see that there's something wrong when we play against packed defence and make a change?

I'm pretty sure most around here have played football at some level and were coached at some level. Elementary things like that will strike you right away. No one here claims he's qualified for the United job or tactical genius, but surely you see there is something wrong in our game?

As soon as Ole is criticized about the tactical aspect of the game, in game management, coaching, set pieces, everyone responds in the line of Jose and LvG spent 300m. It's useless..

 

[Abhinav]

People need to realize that if a manager like Poch, Tuchel, Allegri, etc comes he will be allowed more time on the basis that he has done it before and comes with credentials and usually plan that wouldn't require much imagination to work.

The name itself buys you time and considering our board you are likely to get more time because we're patient enough.

If a figure like Klopp came I'm pretty sure he would be given more time due to his progressive ideas that would be visible from the off. Managers like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, etc will impose a style straight away and fans will get behind that regardless if he's an outsider or not.

People love winners or figures with character and charisma, not being United fan won't make a difference if they are successful.

United should move away from nepotism. This is actually the worst thing that we have been doing since Fergie retired. We aren't thinking in appointing the best man for the job but rely on Fergie to tell us who to appoint - despite his previous record of suggesting managers like Sven, O'Leary, McClaren.

We rely too much on old, archaic methods hoping to find the next Fergie, which won't happen. Football has moved on and if we don't follow that it will be the same shit Milan are at the moment. Appointing your uncle and aunt at the club because it's the 'United way', not because they are qualified for the job.

Who are these managers other than Ole that were appointed because of nepotism? Neither Moyes, LVG nor Mourinho had any ties to the club or its members and the decisions to appoint them were purely footballing ones. The decisions in themselves were bad and have been proven not that well thought out, but the way they were arrived at was definitely not nepotistic. Even Ole was appointed as an interim manager to improve the morale of the club with no intention to make him permanent. Only through the team's performances in his stint as an interim coach was he then considered for the permanent job.

The fact is, the job has become a poisoned chalice and there are only 2 coaches in the world (Pep and Klopp) who will be afforded any kind of patience by the fans and the board if their methods don't yield immediate results. Both are unattainable and the others including Poch, Tuchel, Allegri and even Simeone will be under scrutiny immediately. In fact, apart from Tuchel, I would argue that the playing style's of the other coaches will find them immediately out of favor with the keyboard warriors on here.

We need to wait out the growing pains of this season and then take a call for next season basis the progress that we make. Any new person needs to be given the best resources and environment so that he can succeed. Coming in Dec/Jan and not improving the performances immediately will definitely put a target on his back.

 

[Enigma_87]

Who are these managers other than Ole that were appointed because of nepotism? Neither Moyes, LVG nor Mourinho had any ties to the club or its members and the decisions to appoint them were purely footballing ones. The decisions in themselves were bad and have been proven not that well thought out, but the way they were arrived at was definitely not nepotistic. Even Ole was appointed as an interim manager to improve the morale of the club with no intention to make him permanent. Only through the team's performances in his stint as an interim coach was he then considered for the permanent job.

The fact is, the job has become a poisoned chalice and there are only 2 coaches in the world (Pep and Klopp) who will be afforded any kind of patience by the fans and the board if their methods don't yield immediate results. Both are unattainable and the others including Poch, Tuchel, Allegri and even Simeone will be under scrutiny immediately. In fact, apart from Tuchel, I would argue that the playing style's of the other coaches will find them immediately out of favor with the keyboard warriors on here.

We need to wait out the growing pains of this season and then take a call for next season basis the progress that we make. Any new person needs to be given the best resources and environment so that he can succeed. Coming in Dec/Jan and not improving the performances immediately will definitely put a target on his back.

Moyes was appointed on Fergie's advice. I doubt he would have been shortlisted for the job otherwise.

We keep bringing in staff and coaches that are either past it or has been at our club on the premise of being related to United at some point.

I disagree in terms of fans giving a manager time will be the same as if we appoint Tuchel or Poch. Can speak only for myself of course, but I have no problem giving someone who has proven his tactics and ideas somewhere else time.

 

[Mainoldo]

Pogba is just passing his time with us, just playing with the minimum level of interest to not make it obvious.

That’s your opinion and doesn’t answer why we are using him like a quarter back.

 

[Abhinav]

If you think we are being coached professionally then why are we playing in a such way against League One side? And that is close to full strength side considering our injuries.

Is it players are shite always?

Why we can't take a decent corner? Surely 9 months are enough to do some drills and not play it short - cross right after, or play a moonball straight at the opposition?

Why can't we see some attacking moves and combinations against packed defence? The pattern was very clear to see last game - play it out wide, wait for support and another player coming in - pass it to him. Then recycle possession until you lose it or take a shot from 30 yards.

We're the team with most turnovers per game and with quite a margin, surely it can't all be on the players?

And the biggest question - why there is zero movement in the center of our attack? Surely if you say Ole is a world class coach or even a good one would see that there's something wrong when we play against packed defence and make a change?

I'm pretty sure most around here have played football at some level and were coached at some level. Elementary things like that will strike you right away. No one here claims he's qualified for the United job or tactical genius, but surely you see there is something wrong in our game?

As soon as Ole is criticized about the tactical aspect of the game, in game management, coaching, set pieces, everyone responds in the line of Jose and LvG spent 300m. It's useless..

Where have I ever claimed that Ole is a world class coach? But I am confident that he has more understanding of the game than 99.99% of the people who post on here. I took offense to a post that was trying to build a rhetoric that everyone knows is not true.

You claim that we don't see any evidence of basic tactical work on the field and that is pure confirmation bias than the truth. There are countless times that we have got in good positions but have failed in execution at the crunch moment - Glen Hoddle in a recent analysis highlighted how our players made bad decisions when they were 4 on 4 in the game against West Ham. What we see on the field is an outcome of both tactical planning and players executing those plans. If there is a failure in the outcome then it is as likely that they have failed to execute as per plan as it is that there was no plan / or they were not put through any tactical drills. Jose is one of the best tactical minds in football and even with him we saw the same situation developing - So what is more likely here? A world class coach like Jose isn't bothered to teach tactics to his players or that the players on hand either aren't good enough or are not mature enough to fully execute his plans.

Getting people to execute the plans is a time taking process, especially when you are working with younger players who haven't yet developed their complete understanding of the game and can't rely on intuition to make the right decision.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Very good post. Surely you will have to answer to bad coaching etc. from the posters on here down at Carrington every day taking notes. And I don’t agree with you with fans on either Ole’s or a new managers back. It is mostly a few reactionary FM managers on a web site.

So apparently we have to visit Carrington on a daily basis to see whether these players are coached properly?

How about judging from the fact that nobody can take a corner, nobody can cross, cluelessness of infinite order in the final third, inability to string passes together? He has added only 3 players and two of them are fecking defenders so don't tell me that he has had only 2 months and other shite to lay an imprint.

And the classic FM comment. Bravo.

 

[Enigma_87]

Where have I ever claimed that Ole is a world class coach? But I am confident that he has more understanding of the game than 99.99% of the people who post on here. I took offense to a post that was trying to build a rhetoric that everyone knows is not true.

You claim that we don't see any evidence of basic tactical work on the field and that is pure confirmation bias than the truth. There are countless times that we have got in good positions but have failed in execution at the crunch moment - Glen Hoddle in a recent analysis highlighted how our players made bad decisions when they were 4 on 4 in the game against West Ham. What we see on the field is an outcome of both tactical planning and players executing those plans. If there is a failure in the outcome then it is as likely that they have failed to execute as per plan as it is that there was no plan / or they were not put through any tactical drills. Jose is one of the best tactical minds in football and even with him we saw the same situation developing - So what is more likely here? A world class coach like Jose isn't bothered to teach tactics to his players or that the players on hand either aren't good enough or are not mature enough to fully execute his plans.

Getting people to execute the plans is a time taking process, especially when you are working with younger players who haven't yet developed their complete understanding of the game and can't rely on intuition to make the right decision.

I said if you say he's even a good one, forget about world class one.

Just having understanding of the game doesn't make you a good manager. You have to convey your ideas to the players, which so far he has failed to do so.

Glen Hoddle in a recent analysis highlighted how our players made bad decisions when they were 4 on 4 in the game against West Ham

This is also trained and it's not isolated case.

You are doing the same that I mentioned in my previous quote. Instead of defending Ole's tactics and ideas you go on using Jose as an example.

At the end of the day Jose won couple of cups and finished second so he must have been something right? Would you say Ole will replicate these results if he's given another 150m next summer and another 200 the Summer after next?

 

[SilentWitness]

He is far too naive currently to be managing a club at the top level, if at all.

 

[JPRouve]

I have been very critical of our coaching setup. But it is becoming more and more obvious that there is a weakness with the mentality of many of our players.
I have no knowledge of what kind of sports psychology we have but the confidence level is rock bottom.
When our players first run out onto the pitch, they seem lethargic, afraid and devoid of energy.
I have read a number of sports books and a big difference between the high performing elite and the rest is down to the 4 inches between the ears - the brain and the way top quality sports psychologists maximise performance.

I could accept that if it was the same set of players but it's not. Truth be told, managing failures are very common and in an extremely competitive environment you need to have the best managers AND players to be at the top. Think about it this way, none of our managers were on a successful run at club level when we appointed them, two nobodies and two has beens.

 

[NJM78]

So apparently we have to visit Carrington on a daily basis to see whether these players are coached properly?

How about judging from the fact that nobody can take a corner, nobody can cross, cluelessness of infinite order in the final third, inability to string passes together? He has added only 3 players and two of them are fecking defenders so don't tell me that he has had only 2 months and other shite to lay an imprint.

And the classic FM comment. Bravo.

Well said.

 

[Bilbo]

The thing is though, we cant just snap our fingers and conjure up a new manager. Also, consider the following

• People love to throw around the "10 months" number, but when you take over as caretaker midseason with a broken squad that you had no hand in creating, there is really feck all you can do in terms of shaping the team. He had 1 summer (so far) to do the job and its going to take a lot longer than that to shape this team into something good
• Everyone knows our squad is shite. Im sure all great managers out there would drop all they had and move to Manchester straight away to have the privilege to manage amazing talent like Fred, Lingaard and Pereira
• Everyone knows our squad needed a major overhaul. Its honestly much easier to make a list of players worth keeping rather than making a list of potential upgrades because outside of DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and maybe James and Rashford, the rest are not worth keeping.
• Everyone knows Ed is utterly incompetent. The amount of money he has wasted over the year on rubbish is astonishing
• Everyone knows the structure around the club is severely lacking. Owners that only care about the results of their fiscal year, a bean counter CEO who only cares about revenue and no Sporting director for years which means zero long term plan and vision
• Everyone knows Ole is a beloved character on OT. He still has his own banner there. An outsider will not get that much goodwill

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that? People love to say that there is no point in sticking with a failing manager, which is true, but these are pretty different circumstances than say Moyes. Moyes inherited a team that walked the league the season before, Ole inherited a complete mess of a squad and so will any new manager

By the way. I would have said exactly the same if for example Poch was our manager, because rebuilding this squad was never possible over one window. So what signals does sacking Ole now send? First of all it tells the players they are in now way responsible for their sub par performances and can keep on plodding along while continuing to collect their paychecks. It also sends a signal to any future potential manager that you'd better deliver the goods from day 1. Either that or you get axed

Good post - especially the job description.

Who would want this job now? Look at where the managers are that we've had since Ferguson. With the exception of Van Gaal who was winding down his career anyway, the other two have been irreparably damaged by taking on this job. We will always be a draw because we are a monster club, but anyone is going to think twice (or 3 or 4 times) before taking this on.

As for our fanbase I think they all need to take a look at what we are becoming. As you say above 'Everybody knows X' and 'Everybody knows Y' but actually I don't think they do, otherwise there would be more patience and understanding given towards Ole. We are now the club that hire and fire managers at will - something we all used to look down our nose at when other clubs did it. More than anything else changing our manager so frequently is what is sending this club backwards. We aren't set up for that. It has killed us.

 

[matt10000]

The thing is though, we cant just snap our fingers and conjure up a new manager. Also, consider the following

• People love to throw around the "10 months" number, but when you take over as caretaker midseason with a broken squad that you had no hand in creating, there is really feck all you can do in terms of shaping the team. He had 1 summer (so far) to do the job and its going to take a lot longer than that to shape this team into something good
• Everyone knows our squad is shite. Im sure all great managers out there would drop all they had and move to Manchester straight away to have the privilege to manage amazing talent like Fred, Lingaard and Pereira
• Everyone knows our squad needed a major overhaul. Its honestly much easier to make a list of players worth keeping rather than making a list of potential upgrades because outside of DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and maybe James and Rashford, the rest are not worth keeping.
• Everyone knows Ed is utterly incompetent. The amount of money he has wasted over the year on rubbish is astonishing
• Everyone knows the structure around the club is severely lacking. Owners that only care about the results of their fiscal year, a bean counter CEO who only cares about revenue and no Sporting director for years which means zero long term plan and vision
• Everyone knows Ole is a beloved character on OT. He still has his own banner there. An outsider will not get that much goodwill

So lets say Ole gets sacked after defeats to Arsenal and Liverpool. This about sums up the job description

• Immense pressure
• Awful squad
• Have to hit the ground running or risk getting sacked within months
• Wont be afforded the time, nor the resources to upgrade the squad, have to make do with the same players that failed hard under 3-4 former managers
• Need to have a long term vision, while also delivering in the short term. A tall order to put it mildly
• Fans that will jump at your throat at the first sign of trouble
• A boss that is more than happy to throw you under the bus to save his own skin

Poison chalice is an understatement, its outright career suicide. What top manager in their right mind would want to take a job like that? People love to say that there is no point in sticking with a failing manager, which is true, but these are pretty different circumstances than say Moyes. Moyes inherited a team that walked the league the season before, Ole inherited a complete mess of a squad and so will any new manager

By the way. I would have said exactly the same if for example Poch was our manager, because rebuilding this squad was never possible over one window. So what signals does sacking Ole now send? First of all it tells the players they are in now way responsible for their sub par performances and can keep on plodding along while continuing to collect their paychecks. It also sends a signal to any future potential manager that you'd better deliver the goods from day 1. Either that or you get axed

nail on head