Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Saddy]

I voted Keep but only until December when we must be at least 6th place and within 5/6 points of 4th place.

We now know that the club was too hasty in appointing Ole and the results since his "official" appointment have been totally unacceptable - Ole is starting to look 10 years older and he must know he can't deliver - basically the job is too big for him. If we are not in the top 6 by the beginning of December it's time to go and get a new manager in to spend some serious money in January. Minimum of 2 new players - striker and creative midfield the priority as we need goals.

Players like Young, Pereira and Lingard are not good enough and Pogba has had long enough to prove he can deliver in the Premier League. I don't care about where he plays number 10, 8, 6 he's not the player for us and if we could get 120Mplus I would snap their hand off !

I don't think we should go searching across the world and stick to 2 candidates who understand the Premier League :-

1. Poch should be our 1st choice and we should be talking to Spurs if they are ready to sack him as we might be able to work a deal that suits both clubs and Poch - if not move to the 2nd candidate who might be one of the targets for Spurs and therefore an incentive to do a deal with us.

2. Eddie Howe is ready to move upwards and plays good football plus works well with younger players - basically a better qualified and experienced Ole.

The new manager should be prepared to shake up our coaching staff because we can all see there is no improvement.

All very depressing but everyone like me who's lived through the 70s and 80s don't panic we will be back !!!

 

[humdinger]

At time of writing its 510 Keep versus 344 to sack now. Considering that this forum is presently heavily weighted towards the negative, does this poll prove anything apart from that the 'instant success now' crew post a lot more than the more patient supporters?

I voted keep but I feel quite negative to the current situation. I just don’t see any benefit to sacking Ole just now as I highly doubt the board would have a better replacement lined up and I don’t want another caretaker manager. But, sadly, I think Ole probably won’t turn it around and will be sacked eventually.

 

[Ban]

Right, so Howe is an option, as is Allegri. There's two for you. Sorted.

No need to be arrogant mate. If you're interested in a nice conversation I'm here.

 

[Devil may care]

He didn't have the players cause he made shit transfers yes. Methodical possession didn't achieve anything nor it would in the long run.

It can achieve things if you have the players, LvG had won trophies with his "philosophy." Yes the transfers weren't great and no I don't think he was taking us anywhere and I am glad we sacked him, but you asked if he had a style of play, he did, I could see what he was trying to do, right now under Ole I'm not seeing anything, no attacking patterns, very little in the way of cohesion or structure, we just run around a lot, I know we lack quality and I said when the transfer window closed we wouldn't get top 4, so I just wanted to see us building a distinct style of play that could be built on in future transfer windows, the "process" as Ole's buddies in the media call it, but at the moment there's none of that, people say we are miles of City and Liverpool, forget that, us and Arsenal look worse than Leicester and Everton, the only thing papering over the cracks for Arsenal is they have a killer up top.

 

[devilish]

Making it common knowledge as apposed to boasting, but then you knew that was what I meant.

My point is that at a time when experience is needed more then ever, Ole seem to have gone to great lengths to go the opposite way. Considering the experience our coaching/managing staff have then no wonder why we look so naive and clueless on the pitch. Don't take me wrong, Ole is not our main problem. Actually he's just a name in an endless list of mistakes committed by a board that had proven time and time again to be clueless in everything football related. However as said multiple times, lets not kid ourselves that Ole is part of the solution. He clearly isn't

 

[Ban]

It can achieve things if you have the players, LvG had won trophies with his "philosophy." Yes the transfers weren't great and no I don't think he was taking us anywhere and I am glad we sacked him, but you asked if he had a style of play, he did, I could see what he was trying to do, right now under Ole I'm not seeing anything, no attacking patterns, very little in the way of cohesion or structure, we just run around a lot, I know we lack quality and I said when the transfer window closed we wouldn't get top 4, so I just wanted to see us building a distinct style of play that could be built on in future transfer windows, the "process" as Ole's buddies in the media call it, but at the moment there's none of that, people say we are miles of City and Liverpool, forget that, us and Arsenal look worse than Leicester and Everton, the only thing papering over the cracks for Arsenal is they have a killer up top.

Cause Leicester has a good manager but also a better structure.

 

[Graham R]

I read in the paper that the last time United were in this position was 1989 at the start of SAFs reign. So whilst I would persist with Ole until the end of the season, in reality I cannot see it happening. Times have changed, the microscope of Sky TV, social media, and a global audience with a brand to protect means that mid table mediocrity won’t be tolerated.Once the heat is turned on Woodward and the Glazers their response will be to ditch the manager. The board showed their lack of faith in Ole with a net spend of £60million this Summer , so I fear this season will not
be the start of another managerial dynasty.

 

[Bilbo]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

Great post

 

[DSG]

The poll is pretty clear.

I am actually interested to see if Ole can turn it around. It is a good test, I’d like to see if he can work his way through it. Sad to watch us right now because the squad quality just isn’t there.

The vocal minority is like a pack of animals. Poke them a bit by accusing them of not being a true United fan and they start foaming at the mouth.

Fellas, we aren’t finishing in the top 4 this season, not even with God managing the club. There is no short term fix. Poor transfer windows and investment have doomed the club. Why pay Allegri 15m a year to guide us to 5th place?

 

[efugelso]

Why do some people expect Ole to get top 4 when at the same time saying the players are shit, that the midfield of Leicester, Wolves etc are superior to ours and so on? We probably got the most unbalanced squad if the entire league, and I think Ole is on the right path to fix that. Maguire, AWB and James seems like good signings, if Ole gets it right in the next two transfer windows things might seem a lot better.

And who should we get? Farke? Norwich has 2W, 5L so far. Howe? Has he proven anything more than Moyes did at Everton? NES? Wolves has 1W this season.

I'm not saying that Farke, Howe or NES are not good managers. But people can't expect that a change in manager would solve anything when they at the same time are calling our players shit, that we are lacking in quality etc. Ole has cleared some deadwood, made 3 signings that has settled in well and cares deeply about United. Give him time.

 

[djembatheking]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

Well said mate

 

[Bilbo]

If Bayern or Barca or Madrid had our last six years , the fans would be waiting with torches outside the training ground.

Well, they wouldn't, but I get your point. What they would probably be doing is protesting strongly during matches. Its a credit to our support that we are not doing that, which suggests to me that our matchgoing fans are more 'forgiving' of the predicament that we are in, understand the project and are willing to be patient.

 

[Devil may care]

Cause Leicester has a good manager but also a better structure.

You're talking about the board side of things with regards to structure? Yes Rodgers is a good manager but having a clear identity shouldn't be impossible with the players Ole has at his disposal, I wouldn't say Everton have a better squad than us but they look a better team that has trained in a system of play, we don't.

 

[JohnnyKills]

If there's a manager available now who will work for us long-term (i.e. Pochettino), I'd be tempted to get rid. If not, OGS should stay until the end of the season.

 

[Vanya]

I think we all need to develop amnesia and forget this entire season in advance. Revisit this issue at the same point next season. If the kids aren't alright, a proper recruitment structure on and off the pitch isnt in place and performances are still bad then hell yes, sack him.

But we have to realize that in our recent history this current stratergy of purging the squad and using so many young players is unprecedented. The people who are doing this know the club inside out. They deserve at least a year to prove to us if they are on the right path.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I don't think we'll sack him, however if team will drown in the table below 10th place for good then Woodward will have perfect excuse to sack him, and it will probably happen then.

 

[Donk3y]

What's the point in sacking him if the morons who gave him a permanent contract will stay at the club?

 

[Bilbo]

Sir Alex took the job when football was completely different to what it is now. Football was way simpler at the time, the idea of DOF, sporting directors etc were non existent and the manager could easily manage almost everything by themselves. Through time United grew to the juggernaut it is now however Sir Alex had the time and the brilliance to grow with it. Thus he never really struggled with the increased complexity of the job because he was there from the start.

Modern managers aren't equipped to that. They are used to have DOF, Sporting directors and all sort of specialised people to help them. Also priorities are different these days. Sir Alex saw United as the place he want to work in until retirement and he had the ability to stay at United for a long long time. Modern managers consider a job a 3-4 year project at most. The temptation of hiring mates, former players who are loyal to them or friends of friends is far too high as they don't expect to last for enough time to reap the consequences of their actions. We've seen that multiple times with us being saddled with players like Bastian and Matic while those who brought them in were busy enjoying their last pay cheque.

I was hoping that Ole will be different. I believed that he had enough football IQ and love for the club to understand his Achilles heel (ie inexperience). Once that was acknowledged, he would have done his very best to surround with as much experience as possible, people who would help him and guide him in such complex job. I was wrong.

You mean like Mike Phelan? Or as you think of him Fergusons Cone Distributor or some other guff

 

[Casanova85]

Final reply: I don't believe in that "relegation danger" rubbish; I say let him finish the season, hopefully 6th at best, and perhaps a decent run at the FA and EL. Then let him go, and sell Pogba for at leat 125 + variables.

Any chance of Southgate or Phil Neville for 2020-21? + A director of football?

 

[Bilbo]

You're talking about the board side of things with regards to structure? Yes Rodgers is a good manager but having a clear identity shouldn't be impossible with the players Ole has at his disposal, I wouldn't say Everton have a better squad than us but they look a better team that has trained in a system of play, we don't.

The same Everton that have lost 3 on the bounce - one of those at home to Sheffield United?

 

[Ish]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

I voted "sack", but this is a good post Mike. Truth be told, I'm sort of on the boundary, and as my first post in this thread stated, or well the disclaimer it came with, I said "sack" - only IF we can affect some structural changes as well (DoF or replace Woodward) and IF our first choice manager is available. Only replacing Ole will not achieve much, IMO. So I agree with you somewhat, to have a bit of patience.

 

[Patience]

Can NOT believe 40% of people want to sack another manager.

As if the reason we are where we are is the manager's fault.

How can you think this?

We hired the best manager in the world in 2016 and he couldn't turn things around quick.

There
is
no
quick
fix


We all know that, right?

There was no quick fix when Sir Matt became our manager. There was n quick fix when Sir Alex became our manager.

There was no quick fix when the Sheik took over at Man City.

There was no quick fix when Klopp took over at Liverpool.

Yes.. potentially; we could go down the road of Chelsea and hire and fire managers every two seasons and rebuild squads every two seasons.. we might, like Chelsea, even win an odd Pre title once in a while and we may - like Chelsea - finish 6th every once in a while.. but that is NOT Manchester United.

We want to build a long-lasting, serial competing club culture again.

There is no manager who can get us up there tomorrow. We tried serial winners. The Premier League does not work that way.

We need to strip back; start again. Which is exactly what we are doing under Ole.

Do I think Ole will win us league titles? I honestly don't, no.

But I do believe he is stripping the club back, is going to get us back to being Manchester United. He will get rid of all egos from the dressingrom and have the club run like it should be run. At some point we may need to bring in a Jurgen Klopp type or whoever the best manager in the world is in 3/4 years time.

But bringing in a new manager now is the worst thing we could do.

All we'd be doing is adding to the mess that we created as soon as Sir Alex retired.

Let's get our club back before we can get our football priorities back.

The dressingroom has been stripped back.. it defo needs adding to it before we win any major titles. But it looks like a cleaner slate than where LvG and Jose left us. We maybe worse on the pitch right now; but the club is far more adavanced and heading in the right direction than it was or has been over the past 4/5 years.

Give Ole the three years he needs to clean up the mess; get our identity back. If he is not the one to turn us into Prem League contenders after those three seasons, we turn to somebody who can pick up his batton (succession planning is KEY) and we go from there.

But changing now? Adding to the mess? It makes zero sense!

 

[Judas]

Final reply: I don't believe in that "relegation danger" rubbish; I say let him finish the season, hopefully 6th at best, and perhaps a decent run at the FA and EL. Then let him go, and sell Pogba for at leat 125 + variables.

Any chance of Southgate or Phil Neville for 2020-21? + A director of football?

Are you having a laugh? Phil Neville especially. That is simply madness.

 

[Ban]

You're talking about the board side of things with regards to structure? Yes Rodgers is a good manager but having a clear identity shouldn't be impossible with the players Ole has at his disposal, I wouldn't say Everton have a better squad than us but they look a better team that has trained in a system of play, we don't.

Yes, the whole structure, club identity as a whole, transfers, DOF, whole nine yards.

 

[Mainoldo]

So you'd rather back the Glazers & Woodward. Point proven. Nice.

I don’t support Glazers and Woodward. I support Manchester United. So I don’t no the moral point you’re trying to get across. But I don’t care!

 

[Hawks2008]

Nagelsmann.

Nagelsmann is a pipe dream. He has just arrived in Leipzig, they waited a year for him with their Sporting Director taking the mantle of interim manager for last season and I doubt they would let him go now they have their man.

 

[Smores]

I think we all need to develop amnesia and forget this entire season in advance. Revisit this issue at the same point next season. If the kids aren't alright, a proper recruitment structure on and off the pitch isnt in place and performances are still bad then hell yes, sack him.

But we have to realize that in our recent history this current stratergy of purging the squad and using so many young players is unprecedented. The people who are doing this know the club inside out. They deserve at least a year to prove to us if they are on the right path.

I think you've genuinely already got amnesia if you believe the bolded. I mean its evidently false both on it's historical commentary and present situation.

 

[Hugh Jass]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

This.

 

[efugelso]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

Great post! Especially agree on the part of Ole putting the club first. He said in the press conference before Arsenal that United should purchase the right players, not sign someone just because of his reputation or job security. That should count for something, and he deserves patience.

 

[Devil may care]

The same Everton that have lost 3 on the bounce - one of those at home to Sheffield United?

Yes, the point I was making was about them clearly having a system of play which we don't, they lack firepower the same as us, they lost at home to Sheffield United and we lost at home to Crystal Palace and drew with Rochdale, the thing is they are building a way of playing, right now we look rudderless, wit no playing cohesion.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Well, they wouldn't, but I get your point. What they would probably be doing is protesting strongly during matches. Its a credit to our support that we are not doing that, which suggests to me that our matchgoing fans are more 'forgiving' of the predicament that we are in, understand the project and are willing to be patient.

They were supporting Moyes until the very end when it was clear two months in he wasn’t up to task.
I don’t see it as anything positive, if they turned on Moyes earlier our season could’ve been saved.
To me it’s clear that Ole isn’t up to task, 10 months in.
I don’t understand what project are we talking here?
A project is one thing, coaching is a different thing, I only see regression in our team on the football pitch, we haven’t lost some incredible players here for us to be this bad, Sanchez was a non factor, Smalling was improved on by Maguire, if Lukaku being sold makes us into such a worse side then he shouldn’t have been sold in the first place.
I don’t understand this project, all I can see is Ole being given the job permanently on the basis of him motivating a team coached by Mourinho with a couple of nice words, and that is all.
Is there anything to suggest Ole isn’t even arguably a championship level manager? I don’t see it, I really really don’t.

 

[sunama]

I think Ole is doing a poor job, but given his skill level, he is doing as well as can be expected.
I voted to keep him.
For me though, it has to be Woodward - he needs to be fired, immediately.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Isn’t there something about having a manager who shares your ideals, none of the previous 3 did. Ole wants what’s best for the club, Jose wanted what’s best for him. Ole will give youth a proper chance, none of the other 3 ever did. Ole won’t throw players under the bus to make himself look better. Ole actually loves the club.

Let’s sack him because during one of the biggest transitions since fergie gutted the 88 team that finished 2nd and got a near identical to start to 89 as Ole has to this season and start another rebuild with god knows who yet but yeah what can possibly go wrong with the 5th man since Fergie.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Can NOT believe 40% of people want to sack another manager.

As if the reason we are where we are is the manager's fault.

How can you think this?

We hired the best manager in the world in 2016 and he couldn't turn things around quick.

There
is
no
quick
fix


We all know that, right?

There was no quick fix when Sir Matt became our manager. There was n quick fix when Sir Alex became our manager.

There was no quick fix when the Sheik took over at Man City.

There was no quick fix when Klopp took over at Liverpool.

Yes.. potentially; we could go down the road of Chelsea and hire and fire managers every two seasons and rebuild squads every two seasons.. we might, like Chelsea, even win an odd Pre title once in a while and we may - like Chelsea - finish 6th every once in a while.. but that is NOT Manchester United.

We want to build a long-lasting, serial competing club culture again.

There is no manager who can get us up there tomorrow. We tried serial winners. The Premier League does not work that way.

We need to strip back; start again. Which is exactly what we are doing under Ole.

Do I think Ole will win us league titles? I honestly don't, no.

But I do believe he is stripping the club back, is going to get us back to being Manchester United. He will get rid of all egos from the dressingrom and have the club run like it should be run. At some point we may need to bring in a Jurgen Klopp type or whoever the best manager in the world is in 3/4 years time.

But bringing in a new manager now is the worst thing we could do.

All we'd be doing is adding to the mess that we created as soon as Sir Alex retired.

Let's get our club back before we can get our football priorities back.

The dressingroom has been stripped back.. it defo needs adding to it before we win any major titles. But it looks like a cleaner slate than where LvG and Jose left us. We maybe worse on the pitch right now; but the club is far more adavanced and heading in the right direction than it was or has been over the past 4/5 years.

Give Ole the three years he needs to clean up the mess; get our identity back. If he is not the one to turn us into Prem League contenders after those three seasons, we turn to somebody who can pick up his batton (succession planning is KEY) and we go from there.

But changing now? Adding to the mess? It makes zero sense!

Exactly. We’ve hired and sacked managers before seeking for quick fixes but it’s left us in an even bigger mess. What difference is doing this all over again going to achieve? Will we all of a sudden start playing like the Brazil 1970 World Cup team and instantly start winning trophies left, right and centre?

I wonder if these same people that are desperate for us to keep hiring and sacking managers were desperate for SAF to be sacked back in the late 80’s when we were doing very poorly?

There is no quick fix.

 

[ash_86]

To see the response from the fans here, who lack a lot of perspective in my opinion, it is clear as day how Ole has sacrificed himself for the case of the club. People comparing him to Moyes is beyond laughable, they are just looking for some way to put it all into a neat little frame, available to reach for easy answers. The answers are bound to be negative by default, because the premiss is wrong, so while a lot of these opinions seems agenda driven nobody here really want Ole to fall.

Lets get down to it. Imagine we chose another path. A manager takes over from Mourinho, he keeps all the players inherited and want more players, he doesn't get all of his men and has to make due with what he has got, he then supposedly underperforms with his group and is out of reach of the title only a couple months in and gets the sack. The fans is split, majority think the manager was clueless, the other half think our players weren't good enough. Ed gives new contracts to Lukaku, Jones, Mata etc afraid of losing them for free, demanding his next manager to get more out of the poorly assembled squad.

I'm happy we didn't choose that very realistic path. The problem here is Ed, and the way we've been run and we all agree on it, so why can't we support the new project? Because of Ed? If so we're just allowing him to not take responsibility of his failure by shifting blame to Solskjaer. Shortsighted criticism of the manager's coaching, in-game management etc. is just that, it remains useless in a discussion about the bigger picture.

The thing to remember is, Ole has sacrificed himself. He has willingly gotten rid of people that could have taken the blame for much of the state we're in. Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini. These are the scapegoats we could have blamed, we would have said they are good enough for top 4 but our club isn't supposed to settle for that, so why is he playing them in front of Rashford etc. Now we're saying, we'll its Ole's own fault for getting rid of these players, and our remaining players aren't good enough either.

He has made it so there is no excuses. Not for him, not for anyone. That has to count for something, in regards to his support. Everyone has to own up to their own responsibility, for good or worse. Even Ed is in the line of fire if we don't turn on Ole alone. The buck clearly don't stop with the manager in our case and it has been proven over the years, so wishful thinking is to believe that Ed is capable of replacing Ole with some magical Disney world type manager that would inherit these players and then succeed.

The criteria for even accepting going into a season with such a squad in the first place is the total backing to actually complete the rebuild, or else it is pointless. The only thing it would accomplish without that is giving Ed a year off from competing, so he can save money. I can't accept that. We have to get behind Ole and show we want a real change and if Ed can't give him that, he has to go. He shouldn't have the possibility of remaining in his job after letting Ole go. If he gets replaced, we should then consider to upgrade on Ole. By then he'll have played his part. I just hope Ole's sacrifice isn't for nothing and that our fans wont turn on him in search for easy answers.

With full backing from the fans, Ole could demand a lot more from his boss. In this scenario, I would expect us to see Ole demanding a full rebuild seeing how players have let him down this season should not have a part to play at all next season. Lingard, Rashford, Matic, Mata, Pogba there is a lot of players that have been given trust and not repaid him with performances. Criticise him all you want, but if we are to believe his words and I see no reason why we shouldn't, he wouldn't accept such mediocrity at the club.

In my view Ole should only go when he is the weakest link, and he isn't at this point. He has put himself right in the line of fire to help the club and it is sad to see a lot of fans jump on his back. We can use him to successfully help build a team beyond his level of management and when he reach that point he would probably walk out the door himself. If we don't back him, he'll have no actual power and will get marginalised by Ed to the point Ole is the one taking the blame for the mess Ed has put us in.

Perspective, folks.

Great post. Quite a few think a good manager would solve our problems. I cannot see it happening for us, not with our structure (lack of) . Let's focus our attentions to Ed who's the real villain here.

 

[sunama]

I don’t understand what project are we talking here?
A project is one thing, coaching is a different thing, I only see regression in our team on the football pitch, we haven’t lost some incredible players here for us to be this bad, Sanchez was a non factor, Smalling was improved on by Maguire, if Lukaku being sold makes us into such a worse side then he shouldn’t have been sold in the first place.
I don’t understand this project, all I can see is Ole being given the job permanently on the basis of him motivating a team coached by Mourinho with a couple of nice words, and that is all.
Is there anything to suggest Ole isn’t even arguably a championship level manager? I don’t see it, I really really don’t.

The only project here, is to reduce spending and increase revenue. That's been a long term project since Woodward arrived. Results on the pitch are irrelevant UNLESS they affect the revenue.

Ole is clearly a "yes" man, grateful for being given the job, so he won't rock the boat. Soon, he too, will be fired, as Woodward uses managers to hide behind, when it was his own incompetence which caused the poor results.

The only way we can get out of our long term slump is to fire Woodward. Hitting the reset button and hiring another manager won't take us to the top.

 

[devilish]

You mean like Mike Phelan? Or as you think of him Fergusons Cone Distributor or some other guff

Mike Phelan is the only person Ole brought in with some experience. He picked him up from Central Coast Mariners which is a club residing in Australia so I guess he wasn't really faring well before Ole gave him a chance. Which really makes me wonder. Andrew Meredith worked in Australia same as Ed Leng. Carrick has no experience in coaching, Clegg worked with Keano who mysteriously have only nice words for Ole. Meanwhile Pert worked with Ole during the golden years at Cardiff, Mckenna was promoted from within and had probably worked with Ed Leng during their time at Spurs.

Now the big question is whether this is a genuine restructuring lead by quality men on top of their profession that will pivot the club to success or simply a reunion/jobs for the boys.

 

[Kemizee]

It's not nonsense at all, Manchester United is a unique stand-alone club, every man and his dog has an opinion about us, and isn't slow coming forward sharing those opinions, it's beyond laughable now - the scrutiny on Liverpool and City combined doesn't come anywhere close to the scrutiny on United making it a damn sight easier to go into those clubs and be successful.

Ole might not be the answer, but i'd rather have somebody who knows the club inside and out trying to re-stabilise us than have somebody new come in who for the first 6 months would be wondering what the hell they'd just walked into.

And on Dalglish, he was a success at Liverpool initially, it was the Heysel and/or Hillsborough disaster(s)that derailed him.

And what if this guy who knows the club inside out is not as good as a tactically astute top manager who would get us back to the top. Would you still want him to be our manager?

 

[Bilbo]

They were supporting Moyes until the very end when it was clear two months in he wasn’t up to task.
I don’t see it as anything positive, if they turned on Moyes earlier our season could’ve been saved.
To me it’s clear that Ole isn’t up to task, 10 months in.
I don’t understand what project are we talking here?
A project is one thing, coaching is a different thing, I only see regression in our team on the football pitch, we haven’t lost some incredible players here for us to be this bad, Sanchez was a non factor, Smalling was improved on by Maguire, if Lukaku being sold makes us into such a worse side then he shouldn’t have been sold in the first place.
I don’t understand this project, all I can see is Ole being given the job permanently on the basis of him motivating a team coached by Mourinho with a couple of nice words, and that is all.
Is there anything to suggest Ole isn’t even arguably a championship level manager? I don’t see it, I really really don’t.

That's because (IMO) you are simply equating shit results to mean shit manager without taking any of the many other significant factors into consideration.

 

[JPRouve]

The only project here, is to reduce spending and increase revenue. That's been a long term project since Woodward arrived. Results on the pitch are irrelevant UNLESS they affect the revenue.

Ole is clearly a "yes" man, grateful for being given the job, so he won't rock the boat. Soon, he too, will be fired, as Woodward uses managers to hide behind, when it was his own incompetence which caused the poor results.

The only way we can get out of our long term slump is to fire Woodward. Hitting the reset button and hiring another manager won't take us to the top.

And we did that by drastically increasing spendings?