Are a lot of people missing the point of a Director of Football?

[red thru&thru]

So all the top football clubs in Europe have DoF's but we are Manchester United, we should try and be different and not employ a experienced DoF! Did I get this correct?

 

[Seb burrow]

Yes is the answer. Who I’m not sure. Van Der Sar for me who would be a great addition but he’s dutch and is at his beloved Ajax. Won’t happen.

I heard Darren Fletcher speak on Talksport this morning and I thought he spoke incredibly well.

I’m not saying he should be DoF but that guy should be at some level involved with the club.

I was impressed by his comment about the pressure and how he used to avoid all the media attention by focusing on just impressing SAF rather than focus on outsider remarks. That sort of advice could be great for the youngsters.

 

[Melville Red]

But there's nothing to suggest Woodward's running the footballing side of things? I mean just look at the players we've targeted under each manager, and how they seem to change when a new one comes in - and then say that Woodward is behind them?

Even with a CEO he would still be well within his rights to veto a transfer that he deems is out of budget or one which will throw the wage budget out of whack.

The footballing side of things I want a DOF to do is to hire and sack managers when necessary (which woodward has cocked up by giving managers too much time, poor extensions and just poor hirings) and also out transfer strategy (which is stripping power away from the manager)

Just look at the stupid contracts Woodenhead dishes out from giving Moyes a five year contract to Sanchez getting gawd knows how much a week and then giving Jose a new contract then not backing him and the sacking him and then awarding Ole one hell of a contract instead of been patient.
It’s wooden head who gives the likes of Young and Jones new contracts ffs.
No what we need as said numerous times before is for this footballing clown to get back to his spreadsheets and just say to a footballing DOF here’s your budget and that includes wages go get who the manager wants within that budget.
DOF responsible for selling and buying players on say so of the manager. Getting new players on sensible contracts within budget and getting the best prices in and out, something Woodenhead is wholly incapable of doing, at the moment we are a bloody laughing stock, biggest club in the world and look at the state of us both on and off the pitch.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I don't know what a DOF will do but hopefully they can help build a better squad than what we have with us now . Our squad is genuinely abysmal for the amount of money spent. With everyone fit I think a combined united and city/ Liverpool 11 has probably 1 United player in it or 2 at best . Heck most of our attackers probably don't make the city bench. Surely we need someone who can do a better job than this

 

[red thru&thru]

I don't know what a DOF will do but hopefully they can help build a better squad than what we have with us now . Our squad is genuinely abysmal for the amount of money spent. With everyone fit I think a combined united and city/ Liverpool 11 has probably 1 United player in it or 2 at best . Heck most of our attackers probably don't make the city bench. Surely we need someone who can do a better job than this

In theory (very loose theory)...

1) Ed gives the reigns to a qualified DoF (name it what you will). Someone who has actually done the job and has proven themselves. Ed gives them the budget and the DoF is in charge of all footballing matters.

2) The DoF then lays out his strategy. It should be to recruit top young talent, nurture them and make them world stars. Play attacking and entertaining football. Produce our own academy players with a pathway into the first team.

3) After setting out the strategy, the DoF will bring in the correct people for the particular jobs, from managers/coach, coaching staff, scouts, players etc, to apply the strategy.

I'm keeping this very high level but with the DoF doing all this, it will give the manager/coach the time to do what he's there to do, coach the players. What it will also mean is, the strategy/philosophy doesn't change with every different manager/coach that comes in. The ethos is the same. The players to play that philosophy remains the same and which means it won't take lots of transfer windows to bring in the players to match the philosophy of that given manager.

 

[Maccataq]

In theory (very lose theory)...

1) Ed gives the reigns to a qualified DoF (name it what you will). Someone who has actually done the job and has proven themselves. Ed gives them the budget and the DoF is in charge of all footballing matters.

2) The DoF then lays out his strategy. It should be to recruit top young talent, nurture them and make them world stars. Play attacking and entertaining football. Produce our own academy players with a pathway into the first team.

3) After setting out the strategy, the DoF will bring in the correct people for the particular jobs, from managers/coach, coaching staff, scouts, players etc, to apply the strategy.

I'm keeping this very high level but with the DoF doing all this, it will give the manager/coach the time to do what he's there to do, coach the players. What it will also mean is, the strategy/philosophy doesn't change with every different manager/coach that comes in. The ethos is the same. The players to play that philosophy remains the same and which means it won't take lots of transfer windows to bring in the players to match the philosophy of that given manager.

Great post

What Solskjaer is doing, is right in my eyes but whether he is ultimately good enough or will be given enough time to be successful is in the balance. If we sack Ole and then get someone like Diego Simeone, it would be a disaster and a departure from what we are trying to achieve, regardless of how good a manager we bring in. We really should have a DoF already because we are exposed if Ed gets twitchy and pulls the plug on Ole and starts making more footballing decisions.

I don't know if we even need an experienced or well known DoF, many talk up Van der Sar and he seems an ideal fit except, I don't think it would happen as for one, he isn't DoF as that is Overmars. He went to Ajax and was hired as a Marketing Director before he became CEO so he's not exactly someone who has been doing this type of role for 10-15 years but clearly he has excelled; my point is, if we get the right person, they can grow into the role and it would probably be an improvement on what we have at the moment. I just wish the club would get on with it.

 

[red thru&thru]

Great post

What Solskjaer is doing, is right in my eyes but whether he is ultimately good enough or will be given enough time to be successful is in the balance. If we sack Ole and then get someone like Diego Simeone, it would be a disaster and a departure from what we are trying to achieve, regardless of how good a manager we bring in. We really should have a DoF already because we are exposed if Ed gets twitchy and pulls the plug on Ole and starts making more footballing decisions.

I don't know if we even need an experienced or well known DoF, many talk up Van der Sar and he seems an ideal fit except, I don't think it would happen as for one, he isn't DoF as that is Overmars. He went to Ajax and was hired as a Marketing Director before he became CEO so he's not exactly someone who has been doing this type of role for 10-15 years but clearly he has excelled; my point is, if we get the right person, they can grow into the role and it would probably be an improvement on what we have at the moment. I just wish the club would get on with it.

Thank you.

Also, I agree with you on all your post. What Ole is doing right now is exactly what we needed...but from a DoF point of view. Someone to set the wheels in motion of what we are looking to do over the medium and long term. The problem Ole has from doing it from a a managers position, he is also responsible for the results and then the pressure mounts and we are in the position we are in. Like you say, if Ed gets twitchy, which he will as fans will want, is get rid of Ole and go for someone like Allegri, who is out of a job.

The reason I current;y say experienced DoF because of the pressure Manchester United bring. A few draws and the vultures are out. If it is someone with a good past record, he has some credit in the bank. If it's a relative rookie, it will be 'he doesn't know what he's doing' kind of thing. Edwin would be a great person to have at the club to start the revolution but I just don't know what his role would be. I know he did an interview in April, with Johnathan Northcroft, where he eluded to the fact that is a great guy and he'd be happy enough to work with him at United. But recent links with him suggest that he refused a potential job with us, because he wouldn't have complete control of the footballing side of things.

But whichever way, I am convinced that we will not have any type of sustained success under Ed. There is no evidence to show otherwise.

 

[adexkola]

It's basic business strategy. You don't have one person focused on the strategic, operational and tactical perspective at once.

 

[AllezLesDiables]

There are two teams that do not have a DoF in the premier league: United and Newcastle.

A modern football club cannot operate properly without a director of football.

There are no guarantees that a good DoF is hired but a club cannot function properly without one.

There are far too many aspects to oversee for any manager to over see.

As has been mentioned no top quality manager will come to United without a Director of Football in place.

The purpose of the role is to handle duties of managing soccer operations.

The DoF works with the manager to develop transfer targe

To an extent. Continuity is often overrated in this particular conversation. Only success demands continuity. We had great continuity under Ferguson because he was successful. If he wasn’t he’d have been out. If a manager comes in and is sacked for being rubbish, I don’t see why this all-knowing director needs to think he must go out and find someone just like him. He’s out for a reason. Ultimately, you need to win. We haven’t done so, but we have hired managers that had track records of doing so. That’s good enough for me, even in hindsight. Everyone is a genius in retrospect, but I have no problem with a club who wants to win trophies, particularly in England, hiring Jose Mourinho when we did. That’s the aim of the game.

If we sack Ole tomorrow for being a failure, must this director say he needs to look for the next Ole? Should he turn down the next Guardiola because he’s different to Ole?

One small of being an excellent DoF is knowing which managers to avoid, like Mourinho. I knew he would fail and stated as much before he was hired.

Where most people miss the point is that no manager can manage a team and handle all the aspects related to club management given the number of employees needed to handle each aspect of a football club in the world today.

Even Fergie had archaic systems in place that didn’t stand up after he left because they were based on his knowledge. Remove him and nobody knows exactly what is going on.

Analytics are a massive part of the game, which is part of not only assessing play, but recruiting, nutrition, recovery, and so forth.

 

[Rozay]

There are two teams that do not have a DoF in the premier league: United and Newcastle.

A modern football club cannot operate properly without a director of football.

There are no guarantees that a good DoF is hired but a club cannot function properly without one.

There are far too many aspects to oversee for any manager to over see.

As has been mentioned no top quality manager will come to United without a Director of Football in place.

The purpose of the role is to handle duties of managing soccer operations.

The DoF works with the manager to develop transfer targe


One small of being an excellent DoF is knowing which managers to avoid, like Mourinho. I knew he would fail and stated as much before he was hired.

Where most people miss the point is that no manager can manage a team and handle all the aspects related to club management given the number of employees needed to handle each aspect of a football club in the world today.

Even Fergie had archaic systems in place that didn’t stand up after he left because they were based on his knowledge. Remove him and nobody knows exactly what is going on.

Analytics are a massive part of the game, which is part of not only assessing play, but recruiting, nutrition, recovery, and so forth.

There are a lot more football employees at United than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Do you think only the bunch of guys that make it onto our bench at games, plus Woodward is all we have? Your point is fair, there are so many duties to carry out, my point is that we have people (other than Ole and Ed) carrying them out. They just don’t have the job title of DoF. If the duties are being carried out in a way that works for us and with competent people, then I don’t see why it’s imperative to have a DoF. If it is not working, we could get a DoF, but we could also get better people in their respective job roles.

In summary, 95% of the things you probably feel we need a DoF to come in and do are already being done. By people who will likely feel their credentials are just as valid as any potential DoF. The fact that our players can’t pass and move is not down to the lack of a DoF.

 

[Maccataq]

Thank you.

Also, I agree with you on all your post. What Ole is doing right now is exactly what we needed...but from a DoF point of view. Someone to set the wheels in motion of what we are looking to do over the medium and long term. The problem Ole has from doing it from a a managers position, he is also responsible for the results and then the pressure mounts and we are in the position we are in. Like you say, if Ed gets twitchy, which he will as fans will want, is get rid of Ole and go for someone like Allegri, who is out of a job.

The reason I current;y say experienced DoF because of the pressure Manchester United bring. A few draws and the vultures are out. If it is someone with a good past record, he has some credit in the bank. If it's a relative rookie, it will be 'he doesn't know what he's doing' kind of thing. Edwin would be a great person to have at the club to start the revolution but I just don't know what his role would be. I know he did an interview in April, with Johnathan Northcroft, where he eluded to the fact that is a great guy and he'd be happy enough to work with him at United. But recent links with him suggest that he refused a potential job with us, because he wouldn't have complete control of the footballing side of things.

But whichever way, I am convinced that we will not have any type of sustained success under Ed. There is no evidence to show otherwise.

I think we just need to hire the right person but experience would be great, don't get me wrong because ideally you want someone with contacts who can help bring in players but if we had someone like Darren Fletcher come in I would back that decision because he knows the club and seems intelligent and you know he would work hard. Edwin would be great but he's no fool and if he doesn't think the job is right because of the responsibilities, it makes me highly sceptical we'll ever get anyone other than Ed Woodward as our DoF.

 

[red thru&thru]

I think we just need to hire the right person but experience would be great, don't get me wrong because ideally you want someone with contacts who can help bring in players but if we had someone like Darren Fletcher come in I would back that decision because he knows the club and seems intelligent and you know he would work hard. Edwin would be great but he's no fool and if he doesn't think the job is right because of the responsibilities, it makes me highly sceptical we'll ever get anyone other than Ed Woodward as our DoF.

Ole knows the club and you can see, he absolutely bleeds United...hasn't worked out great for him so far. We just need to be pragmatic. The board have made a lot of emotional decisions, to quite a bit of detriment.

 

[Tyrion]

That again works on some sort of assumption that Woodward is the one compiling our list of targets.

I think he is to some extent. Obviously Mourinho, LVG and OGS picked some targets but others seem more like Woodward. Also, it's definitely Woodward's choice when it comes to managerial targets.

 

[Rozay]

I think he is to some extent. Obviously Mourinho, LVG and OGS picked some targets but others seem more like Woodward. Also, it's definitely Woodward's choice when it comes to managerial targets.

I’m not sure you or anyone else knows anywhere near enough about Ed to say some targets ‘seem more like Woodward’ personally, but that’s just my opinion. Rather than playing such a guessing game, I’d personally stick to the established United model of our targets are selected by our manager.

And yes, it is likely Woodward’s choice in terms of management hiring, or at least his sign-off. Even then, I think this forum loves to piss in the dark about what he actually does. We have a lot of fecking employees. On the ‘football side’ of things I mean. Even then, how do you know Jose Mourinho wasn’t say, Avram Glazer’s choice? Anyway, assuming it was Woodward’s, I guess any coach is a bad choice that doesn’t win major titles, regardless of their rep at the time. And Moyes was clearly Fergie’s choice.

 

[Johan07]

Until he leaves and then the next one you get is shite

Cannot the same be said for a DoF though? Until he leaves and the next one is shite? If you look att tenures of DoFs (or similar) all over Europe its not that much of a difference from managers. I am in favour of a DoF but I would much rather that we would switch focus to the structure itself of the club. And a DoF is just a very small part of it.
EDIT
I just dont get this if everyone thinks Ed is incompetent at appointing managers: Why should he be better at appointing a DoF? What difference does it make? And what difference does it make for Woodwards role?
I still have not gotten a rational reply on similar questions from people that think that a DoF is some form of universal solution.

 

[Infra-red]

I suppose that Sir Alex used to cover quite a lot of this for us. Basically stopped his training ground work in about 2002, hand picked the subsequent first team coaches (Queiroz 2002-08/Meulensteen 2008-13), oversaw player recruitment with his brother Martin, sat in on contract negotiations with Gill and wowed/tapped up prospective players, and generally set the standards and philosophy throughout the club.

 

[AllezLesDiables]

There are a lot more football employees at United than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Do you think only the bunch of guys that make it onto our bench at games, plus Woodward is all we have? Your point is fair, there are so many duties to carry out, my point is that we have people (other than Ole and Ed) carrying them out. They just don’t have the job title of DoF. If the duties are being carried out in a way that works for us and with competent people, then I don’t see why it’s imperative to have a DoF. If it is not working, we could get a DoF, but we could also get better people in their respective job roles.

In summary, 95% of the things you probably feel we need a DoF to come in and do are already being done. By people who will likely feel their credentials are just as valid as any potential DoF. The fact that our players can’t pass and move is not down to the lack of a DoF.

Sure. Ultimately it doesn’t matter what you call it. I’m sure United has people to handle a lot of the tasks. A DoF is useless without having any power. It’s fairly obvious whatever the structure is it is not working and who knows maybe it’s not clear what the structure actually is at United.

The bigger issue is that Ed suggested that a DoF was needed about a year ago, then does nothing about it, and now is saying he feels good about the direction of how things are going.

The sun of those action is a clear sign of how dysfunctional United is at the moment.

 

[Tyrion]

I’m not sure you or anyone else knows anywhere near enough about Ed to say some targets ‘seem more like Woodward’ personally, but that’s just my opinion. Rather than playing such a guessing game, I’d personally stick to the established United model of our targets are selected by our manager.

And yes, it is likely Woodward’s choice in terms of management hiring, or at least his sign-off. Even then, I think this forum loves to piss in the dark about what he actually does. We have a lot of fecking employees. On the ‘football side’ of things I mean. Even then, how do you know Jose Mourinho wasn’t say, Avram Glazer’s choice? Anyway, assuming it was Woodward’s, I guess any coach is a bad choice that doesn’t win major titles, regardless of their rep at the time. And Moyes was clearly Fergie’s choice.

I actually agree with a lot of that but that's kind of the point of a DoF. There's a clear person in charge of those things rather than "well Fergie picks this one, Woodward picks the next and Avram the one after".

 

[Cassidy]

Cannot the same be said for a DoF though? Until he leaves and the next one is shite? If you look att tenures of DoFs (or similar) all over Europe its not that much of a difference from managers. I am in favour of a DoF but I would much rather that we would switch focus to the structure itself of the club. And a DoF is just a very small part of it.
EDIT
I just dont get this if everyone thinks Ed is incompetent at appointing managers: Why should he be better at appointing a DoF? What difference does it make? And what difference does it make for Woodwards role?
I still have not gotten a rational reply on similar questions from people that think that a DoF is some form of universal solution.

Probably because not many of these people exist

Woodward roles will have nothing to do with football, on the footballing side his job would be to sign checks and agree budgets and sign off exceptional expenses. Basically what a usual CEO does his focus should only be on the commercials of the club

Obviously a DOF cannot exist without a change in the structure

 

[red thru&thru]

Cannot the same be said for a DoF though? Until he leaves and the next one is shite? If you look att tenures of DoFs (or similar) all over Europe its not that much of a difference from managers. I am in favour of a DoF but I would much rather that we would switch focus to the structure itself of the club. And a DoF is just a very small part of it.
EDIT
I just dont get this if everyone thinks Ed is incompetent at appointing managers: Why should he be better at appointing a DoF? What difference does it make? And what difference does it make for Woodwards role?
I still have not gotten a rational reply on similar questions from people that think that a DoF is some form of universal solution.

So, in your opinion, why have we not been successful under the reign of Ed?

 

[red thru&thru]

Probably because not many of these people exist

Woodward roles will have nothing to do with football, on the footballing side his job would be to sign checks and agree budgets and sign off exceptional expenses. Basically what a usual CEO does his focus should only be on the commercials of the club

Obviously a DOF cannot exist without a change in the structure

Agreed.

 

[Sky1981]

Yes is the answer. Who I’m not sure. Van Der Sar for me who would be a great addition but he’s dutch and is at his beloved Ajax. Won’t happen.

I heard Darren Fletcher speak on Talksport this morning and I thought he spoke incredibly well.

I’m not saying he should be DoF but that guy should be at some level involved with the club.

I was impressed by his comment about the pressure and how he used to avoid all the media attention by focusing on just impressing SAF rather than focus on outsider remarks. That sort of advice could be great for the youngsters.

Gary talks a good talk back then we all thought he's the next fergie.

 

[Sky1981]

I actually agree with a lot of that but that's kind of the point of a DoF. There's a clear person in charge of those things rather than "well Fergie picks this one, Woodward picks the next and Avram the one after".

We have the man in charge for that. It's the manager.

I seriously dont think Woodward sits in his room and picks which players we should buy. It's not his job.

If it's bad it's Ed's purchase, if it's good it's ole purchase.

 

[Snow]

A lot of people miss the point on most things regarding football. That's the nature of discussion when people talk things they have no experience with whatsoever. I think it would do this forum a lot of good just to sit and listen to some ex-managers or players just talk about football for one hour (without trying to sell it to the audience). Knowing what you don't know is a trait, not a boon.

 

[red thru&thru]

We have the man in charge for that. It's the manager.

I seriously dont think Woodward sits in his room and picks which players we should buy. It's not his job.

If it's bad it's Ed's purchase, if it's good it's ole purchase.

Who or what is to blame for the football under Ed's watch?

 

[Sky1981]

Who or what is to blame for the football under Ed's watch?

Whoever it is we have to be consistent.

If you want to blame the manager then the manager it is. You cant shift the blame based on who's your favorite.

If ed does make the decision (which is unlikely) then he should be credited for the good and the bad.

I'm more inclined to think that it's on the manager to deliver their list and woodward just go and buy them. At worst he sanctioned an outrageous signing (e.g if mourinho wants messi or neymar).

The good thing about ed is that he doesnt meddle with the management, when we finally find a good manager he wont have a businessman telling him what to do.

 

[red thru&thru]

Whoever it is we have to be consistent.

If you want to blame the manager then the manager it is. You cant shift the blame based on who's your favorite.

If ed does make the decision (which is unlikely) then he should be credited for the good and the bad.

I'm more inclined to think that it's on the manager to deliver their list and woodward just go and buy them. At worst he sanctioned an outrageous signing (e.g if mourinho wants messi or neymar).

The good thing about ed is that he doesnt meddle with the management, when we finally find a good manager he wont have a businessman telling him what to do.

So what you saying is, every manager that we have brought in, is to blame?

 

[Johan07]

Who or what is to blame for the football under Ed's watch?

I seriously dont get this need to blame someone. Whats the purpose really? Whats important is how to move forward.
Its not rocket science what the problems have been at United since 2013:
a) Gill and Sir Alex leaving at once practically without giving any notice
b) Seriously underdeveloped scouting system
c) Seriously underdeveloped youth development system
d) Moyes
e) The appointment of Mourinho when the club under LvG actually seemed to have decided to make some adjustments to the hierarchy (this is where the DoF comes in). That appointment delayed the progressive approach at the club organisationally.
f) Another level of competition than 10-15 years ago.
Of these points only b) and c) were fixable; the others are history or facts. And the club has spent a lot of money on b) and c) now. A lot. There should be some credit to the club for recognising this.
When or if this will take effect remains to be seen. Its not investments that will reap imminent dividends even if some people seem to think so.
EDIT
I forgot:
g) The club placing way too much trust and deference to the old-school Board of Advisors of Gill, Sir Alex and Sir Bobby. Its the main reason why the manager-rules-all sentiment still rules the club IMO.

 

[Sky1981]

So what you saying is, every manager that we have brought in, is to blame?

Unless ed is there monitoring and telling then who to play how to play or made any input on match day lineup then yes it's on the manager.

His only mistake is choosing the wrong man.

 

[Skills]

So what you saying is, every manager that we have brought in, is to blame?

Yes.

 

[red thru&thru]

Unless ed is there monitoring and telling then who to play how to play or made any input on match day lineup then yes it's on the manager.

His only mistake is choosing the wrong man.

Thank you. So when does he look at himself and thinks maybe he is the one to blame, as he keeps on choosing the wrong managers?

 

[Johan07]

So what you saying is, every manager that we have brought in, is to blame?

I am sorry, but what is it with you and this blame game. Its not that simple that you can identify one or two persons and then put everything on them. The club has an organisation and for the results since 2013 everyone carries a bit of "blame" if it gets you off blaming people.

 

[red thru&thru]

Yes.

Just the managers? Not the guys who employ them?

 

[red thru&thru]

I am sorry, but what is it with you and this blame game. Its not that simple that you can identify one or two persons and then put everything on them. The club has an organisation and for the results since 2013 everyone carries a bit of "blame" if it gets you off blaming people.

Someone has to take the responsibility of a failing organisation that was once prosperous. And as Ed is the man in charge of this, he HAS to take the ultimate blame. Very simple.

 

[Johan07]

Someone has to take the responsibility of a failing organisation that was once prosperous. And as Ed is the man in charge of this, he HAS to take the ultimate blame. Very simple.

You did not answer the question. Why is it important that someone takes the blame?

 

[red thru&thru]

You did not answer the question. Why is it important that someone takes the blame?

Is this a trick question? I've already answered your question.

 

[Sky1981]

Someone has to take the responsibility of a failing organisation that was once prosperous. And as Ed is the man in charge of this, he HAS to take the ultimate blame. Very simple.

Maybe we're so used to ferguson we think ed is a catastrophe.

Most top teams goes through a few barren managers until they find the one that clicks. No dof or ceo gets managerial appointment 100 percent all the time.

Liverpool had their shares with kenny, brenda, rafa, Hodgson. Eventually they got klopp and everything else clicks

City doesn't always hire the right manager

Hotspur were the laughing stock of europe pre pochetiño, remember koeman?

Chelsea, arsenal.

You think the next ceo would somehow pick the winner guaranteed

 

[Johan07]

Is this a trick question? I've already answered your question.

No you did not. We will leave it that.
For me I would rather discuss what can be done at the club moving forward then assigning blame - for example on Gill for giving Moyes a six-year contract.
It accomplishes nothing. It has no purpose. Its just moaning.
If you want Woodward out, try to argue who you want to replace him with and why its even a probable scenario as long as he has the Glazers trust.

 

[red thru&thru]

Maybe we're so used to ferguson we think ed is a catastrophe.

Most top teams goes through a few barren managers until they find the one that clicks. No dof or ceo gets managerial appointment 100 percent all the time.

Liverpool had their shares with kenny, brenda, rafa, Hodgson. Eventually they got klopp and everything else clicks

City doesn't always hire the right manager

Hotspur were the laughing stock of europe pre pochetiño, remember koeman?

Chelsea, arsenal.

You think the next ceo would somehow pick the winner guaranteed

Ok, let's leave the DoF issue to one side for a moment. Would you not agree that we, as a club, should have a philosophy? A way of playing?

 

[red thru&thru]

No you did not. We will leave it that.
For me I would rather discuss what can be done at the club moving forward then assigning blame - for example on Gill for giving Moyes a six-year contract.
It accomplishes nothing. It has no purpose. Its just moaning.
If you want Woodward out, try to argue who you want to replace him with and why its even a probable scenario as long as he has the Glazers trust.

I did answer it, not my fault you can't understand the answer.

I now wholly understand why you back ed so much, you have a very similar attitude as to what Ed applies to the footballing side of our club.