Happy to give OLE 2 more years and then I think it would be prudent to reassess our progress in relation to transfer windows and performances.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
Firstly, it is not completely apparent to everyone. As I mentioned in the rest of my post, he's working with an incredibly light squad further decimated by injuries. Ole is an unknown quantity at this level but even highly experienced managers would struggle in his position.
The club has made the decision that the entire footballing direction of the club is dictated by the manager. That decision is what is idiotic. It has led to the worst playing squad at the club in 25 years, despite crazy money being spent. If Ole leaves, it will lead to another reset. History shows that is the case.
This summer, the club decided on a culture espoused by Ole and set course for a long term rebuild. It is now October.
Or maybe try to understand the post before calling it terrible logic?
The club needs a long term direction to avoid a continuation of the terrible decisions being made over the recruitment and retention of the playing squad. They have decided to have the manager dictate that process. If that's the case and they task him with a long term rebuild in the summer, how can you sack him in October?
If he's not the man, they need to implement a proper structure with the right people in place to implement the long term rebuild before changing the manager and going in another completely different direction.
How about when we are 17th in the Championship.
Both LVG and Jose were appointed for "rebuilds", it literally does not mean anything. That Ole is an unknown quantity at this level just shows what lunacy was to hire him permanenly in the first place. Of course you CAN sack him, that is what every other big club would have done already.
I saw some signs of progress and cohesion at the start of the season, that was derailed by crucial injuries. Clearly far from the finished article but the stats suggest we did enough to win more games and would usually have more points.
We will never know who exactly is to blame for not bringing in more players in the summer, Ole was clear that he wanted more so for me it is Woodward and the negotiation team who take most of the blame.
On the money side, it is probable that we needed to offload Lukaku and Sanchez before bringing in replacements and those deals came late in the window - transfer fees are not an issue for us, but there are limits on the wage bill and we have been over the usual maximum 50% wage ratio. That kind of limitation can only be blamed on the Glazers, Woodward and co - I am sure we have big funds to spend in January and next summer, but results will have to improve for Ole to make it that far.
Only 2, are you mad? Give him at least 4 ffs. What he has shown so far here and elsewhere as a manager was nothing short of amazing, i fear big clubs will poach him from us in the future.
Respect ok, time no. Enough giving time for an end we all know, enough making this club like a field to experience managers and shite players.
Solskjær has improved the defence, by buying two top defenders. He will improve the midfield when he brings in midfielders. I think it´s at that level fans need to be patient. Not to wait for Solskjær to improve Fred.
Depends what were LVG and Mourinho´s plans for long term success. Where there any?
I trust him to fight relegation.
Kappa? must be a City fan !He doesn't need time or respect
As a manger he's been awful for the club, he needs to get out.
Starting with the last point, which definitely merits discussion. We probably did need to clear wages if we were to recruit - maybe we could have carried some unwanted extra cost for a season just to make sure we weren't leaving us too thin (which we did). But with regards to planning, I wonder if we tried aggressively to ship out more who the club knew probably in April/May weren't in Ole's plans. I doubt it. It's not unlikely that we could have sold Smalling, Rojo and one of Bailly/Jones if we had been willing to accept less than the club valued them at, biting the bullet. But we actually extended the contracts of Smalling and Jones after Ole arrived, didn't we? Probably a slight increase too on their deals. Bailly might have still fetched suitors had he not injured himself in pre-season, but again, could probably have been sold months prior. It's also pretty clear Ole doesn't fancy Matic, maybe that's a later development, but it's likely he'd fetch suitors. Point being, I think we definitely could have sold more players had there been serious planning and a clear vision from the time it dawned on Ole that this squad is seriously flawed in terms of quality and character, and of course balance.
I don't remember Ole talking about wanting a midfielder, other than maybe a creative one. I think we could have done with many types of midfielders, not simply in terms of progressing the team, but simply because of lack of bodies.
And the last point, I agree that injuries have played a huge role - and I wonder whether the coaching is at fault there. But, shame as it is, I didn't really see too much to keep the hope going that Ole will come good. So far his pros since the end of last season IMV are: Bought players who fit. Sold two who didn't. Promoted Tuanzebe to 3rd choice CB. Gave chances to Williams and Greenwood. While (some of) the cons are: Seems to have only one approach to games. Tactically inflexible. Left the squad too thin this summer - at leats partly responsible given his endorsement of all things club related. In-game management seems missing. Our set pieces are the worst they've ever been. Doesn't seem to carry any authority - the penalty takers situation, the double standard on the players he sold "because they didn't want to be here" or "we want the right characters" and then brushing off questions about Pogba doing his own fitness thing in Dubai whilst talking to Zidane when the club is in crisis. I know he's positive but he comes across as really naive. I love him but I just don't love him as a manager. He's friend-zoned for me.
If our long term plan is to play in Championship then i agree with OP that we must stick with Ole and sacrifice short term plan. Ole has full potential to qualify this team there. I don't want to insult him (because he is our legend, nice guy and personally, i loved him as a player) so i will not say that he can do it this year. But in a long run; yes, he can do that job.
The point @amolbhatia50k makes is still valid. The idea to pursue youth, energy and attacking football with the right characters, doesn't require Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to be in control. Granted, it's tricky to find an interim manager but Ole could be sacked today and these aims still be in place. A DoF would be tasked with ensuring it, but the club can still keep the same model (without a DoF) and look for a better manager pursuing the same ideals. You can't retain a manager just because he has noble ideals. He's got to have some leverage. And what's the leverage? All I can see is that it's difficult for the club to make a change at this stage of the season.
Funny thing is Klopp’s interview fills me with more confidence than Ole’s.
You cant have that much squad churn in one window - need some kind of continuity even at the start of a rebuild, a lot of players left this year and clearly we needed more players not less in the end. But long term the likes of Matic, Mata and Young will be replaced by younger models and I would trust Ole to identify the right players for the club.
There are definitely issues on player contract side of things though - rumblings from the likes of Evra and Herrera at the way contract extensions were handled and questionable players getting extensions to keep their market value but then blocking up valuable space on the wage bill when no one will take them. Again this is not under the manager's control but at least they managed to get DDG to extend, could be seen as a positive sign that he liked Ole's ideas for the future. Pogba is the next one who needs to commit for the long term rebuild or be replaced ASAP.
The injuries thing is really bizarre and its not a new thing either - Ole had a load last season and we had a crisis under LvG that derailed a season as well. Always assumed it is just bad luck but when it happens that often then you do wonder what is the cause.
This is starting to look pathetic. These articles, Neville interview...it sounds like all those shit in countries which have dictator ; " Look what our great leader did. In school, he was already best in his class, with 15y he already was leader in his community and with 18y he finished his 4th book...."
Have they really been that good? James has been a pleasant surprise, I suppose, but he still looks very much a work in progress. AWB looks good, but memories of Darmian's strong start give me pause when lauding AWB a big success, especially since he's missed a few games, and the attacking side of his game hasn't been great. I think Maguire will be solid for us, but so far I don't think he's been that great; certainly not a huge upgrade over Smalling.
Respect for the way he played and won things for club.
Respecting the way he failing to manage the team to do the utter basics is simply why we are doing the 1990s liverpool.
Sympathy? yes.
Respect? He is quickly using up the respect he earned when he was still a player. And at the end of this all most fans will thoroughly remember his current spell more than his playing days.
The man is out of his depth and the board or he himself have lots of saving to do.
Respecting the way he failing to manage the team to do the utter basics is simply why we are doing the 1990s liverpool.
Sympathy? yes.
Respect? He is quickly using up the respect he earned when he was still a player. And at the end of this all most fans will thoroughly remember his current spell more than his playing days.
The man is out of his depth and the board or he himself have lots of saving to do.
Ole has respect as a player, he has to earn it all over again as a manager.
I mean if you want to respect him based on his past accomplishments 20 years ago, its only fair if certain fans absolutely hates him for what he is doing to the club now? Both are sentimental reactions.
You can't be accepting one and rejecting another.
You can't be accepting one and rejecting another.
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I kind of agree and I think all 3 have done well so far. Patience and objective analysis works both ways in that you don't write off a player with a few bad games initially (see Evra and Vidic) and you don't proclaim players great signings after a handful of good games (Darmian, Depay and Di Maria were mega flops here but they all started pretty well)
Let's see where the signings are at the end of the season and then evaluate them. I think Maguire has done pretty well so far but i've seen a lot of oppo and England fans claim that he's not half as good as we think he is. I disagree but again, I need more than 10 games to totally make up my mind.
Can you please stop being objective here?
Rashford, mata, James, lingard, greenwood or even lukaku aren't world beaters, granted. But they still better players than 50% of the teams in the league. Oles failure is not at getting the team to win or falling to climb the table. His failure is at fundamental levels like player movements, optimization is performance, coaching and selection.
The team looks totally clueless in possession, defence looks good after the spending. And even maguire and wan bissaka beginning to make mistakes and that's why I'm suspecting this is coaching issue.
I love Ole but it's over guys.
Cheers to that mate.
I'm a little frustrated with the latter, because it is starting to come of as Ole thinking he's already got the managerial mettle purely because he was a hero as a player. This focus on culture is becoming boring. To say the culture is better now, how? Because we sold an overweight striker and past it senior superstar? We're still losing games and not working hard enough. That doesn't strike me as the right culture. If there's this acceptance of medicority that's even worse
Only thing i dont like is when Ole being called names, you think he is not good enough or is awful clueless manager in general, fine, you have issues with his certain skills as manager, fine and so on. Guy is a legend for what he is done as a player and people should be able to separate the two.
It's not about his resume. We've done the whole "been successful at other clubs" malarchy and that didn't work so we have to try something different and by different I mean let a less skilled manager work his magic and rebuild us
We don’t need them to fly. If they can float that will be enough.
GREAT ARTICLE!
This article is inspiring for any MU supporter.
Anyone commenting on this thread and moaning that Solskjær should be sacked is either of these two things:
1. Has not read this article.
2. Is a glory hunter looking for a quick fix.
This article is inspiring for any MU supporter.
Anyone commenting on this thread and moaning that Solskjær should be sacked is either of these two things:
1. Has not read this article.
2. Is a glory hunter looking for a quick fix.
Project Ole is a hail Mary punt. In such situations you close your eyes and hope there is an instant impact, or at least get a vision of drastic change in fortune for the good in the near future. Having seen how it fizzled out, it would be reckless of astronomical proportions to continue with the project and hoping he learns on the job and getting good in the future.
It would have been amazing if it worked out and we discovered our very own pep, but unfortunately it did not and worse, he is taking us backwards sharpish.
Hiring him was great, making him permanent was premature but not a mistake at the time, but letting him continue now is irresponsible
It would have been amazing if it worked out and we discovered our very own pep, but unfortunately it did not and worse, he is taking us backwards sharpish.
Hiring him was great, making him permanent was premature but not a mistake at the time, but letting him continue now is irresponsible
Wrong. It's inspiration for some "MU" supporters.
And no, people who are in disagreement with the article aren't necessarily either of those things. There are very ligitimate arguments against Ole remaining in charge of Manchester United - and I mean other than the fact that he has us in relegation level form.
And finally, the notion that those who believe that the manager isn't good enough are 'unable to see the bigger picture' and can't see the 'long term gain due to their focus on the short term' is again, pretty weak logic. Of ignores the fact that IF Ole isn't good enough to manage this club, then he is not the right man for the long or short (or any ) term.
I think his signings have been pretty good. Definitely like the 'direction'. 26 and below. However, there's no need for us to hail them before they make a real and tangible impact. As far as I can see, they're all solid additions but are they players with no question marks who absolutely sort out positions for a title winning United team in 2023 - I don't think so. We'll have to wait and see. It's not like Salah and Mane where the position is absolutely sealed. AWB is the closest to that for me - really like the signing. But hopefully we can either compliment him with a better RW or he can improve going forward. Maguire seems good but would have to wait and watch - we did spend a fortune here. James looks an interesting player. To be honest he looks a rotational player but you never know how a footballer improves. So I'd give that a solid 7.5-8/10, and hopefully that gets bumped up if the players improve.
On the topic of transfer activity, though, are we simply going to ignore the completely callous nature of the rebuild? Allowing midfielders to walk off without replacement. Allowing big name forwards to go without a replacement. It was all just extremely haphazard. A manager with a proper vision doesn't let go of decent players and replace them with fecking Andreas Periera.
And of course then comes the most important part - managing the actual team on the actually football pitch. And no matter excuses people make, he's been absolutely dreadful in this regard.
Agreed
He was given time at Molde etc. and still hardly did anything that surprising. He won the title a while back, which was great, but since leaving Molde, they've improved and are looking set to win the title this year without him. Coupled with the fact that he relegated Cardiff and looked to be relegating them in the Championship too and you have yourself a manager so clearly out of his depth here.
We've only really had one major injury to Martial in our offence, yet the whole offence looks completely clueless in regards to any patterns of offensive play. There are teams with far weaker squads (even without Martial), playing far better football than we are. Enough with the excuses and what not, the guy simply isn't good enough. As much as we all loved him as a player and as a person, he's just not cut out to be Manchester United manager.
We've only really had one major injury to Martial in our offence, yet the whole offence looks completely clueless in regards to any patterns of offensive play. There are teams with far weaker squads (even without Martial), playing far better football than we are. Enough with the excuses and what not, the guy simply isn't good enough. As much as we all loved him as a player and as a person, he's just not cut out to be Manchester United manager.
Personally, I don't think he deserves time. There are comparisons about what happened at Liverpool with Klopp and the benefits of giving him time. But Klopp got short term results which then gave Liverpool the faith to give him time.
Yes, his first season he finished 8th. But he also took them to the Europa league finals with some brilliant matches like the Dortmund game. His second season he finished top 4. His third season, again top 4 and reached UCL finals. So, what I'm trying to get at is he earned his time by giving short term results which act as validation.
With Ole, I don't see anything to be honest and hence I feel he does not deserve time.
Yes, his first season he finished 8th. But he also took them to the Europa league finals with some brilliant matches like the Dortmund game. His second season he finished top 4. His third season, again top 4 and reached UCL finals. So, what I'm trying to get at is he earned his time by giving short term results which act as validation.
With Ole, I don't see anything to be honest and hence I feel he does not deserve time.
The entire club, from the boardroom to the fans is a toxic shit heap at the minute and there is absolutely no joy in anything beyond watching our under-age teams right now. Fans want instant success and aren't willing to put up with the hardships that a rebuilding club inevitably has to go through.
Not 7 years ago, we lost the greatest builder of successful teams that football has ever seen. A complete one-off who can never be repeated, who did his job with one arm tied behind his back for his last 8 years. The problems with success or the lack of it stem from problems not at all related to Ole and despite our league position currently, I would actually go as far to say that he is one of the few forces for good that our club has at the minute. Liverpool didn't turn their situation around as soon as Klopp was appointed, Guardiola scraped the Champions League in his first season with City. We will have to endure more hardships this season and we are only NOW paying the price for Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. I simply won't blame Ole for having to clean their shit, as well as the boards.
Not 7 years ago, we lost the greatest builder of successful teams that football has ever seen. A complete one-off who can never be repeated, who did his job with one arm tied behind his back for his last 8 years. The problems with success or the lack of it stem from problems not at all related to Ole and despite our league position currently, I would actually go as far to say that he is one of the few forces for good that our club has at the minute. Liverpool didn't turn their situation around as soon as Klopp was appointed, Guardiola scraped the Champions League in his first season with City. We will have to endure more hardships this season and we are only NOW paying the price for Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. I simply won't blame Ole for having to clean their shit, as well as the boards.
These long term plan is a bullshit.
No manager should plan for what happens in 3 years. It doesnt work like in fm.
Stop referencing co92 as long term plan by fergie. It happens, when you have a young beckham,scholes,butt, neville, giggs you will field them. When fergie doesnt have that he bought from outside.
What fergie did is what's best in that time, if we copy it stupidly we will bound to fail. Fergie's greatest strenght is he adapt. We all blindly follow what he did without looking at the context of time and situation.
If fergie were to be given this squad he'll buy 4-5 players, a stopgap for a few years, then he probably do a restructuring from behind the screen. Ole looks pretty clueless and he does thing without a plan, well he has a plan but a naive and stupid plan that wont work.
No manager should plan for what happens in 3 years. It doesnt work like in fm.
Stop referencing co92 as long term plan by fergie. It happens, when you have a young beckham,scholes,butt, neville, giggs you will field them. When fergie doesnt have that he bought from outside.
What fergie did is what's best in that time, if we copy it stupidly we will bound to fail. Fergie's greatest strenght is he adapt. We all blindly follow what he did without looking at the context of time and situation.
If fergie were to be given this squad he'll buy 4-5 players, a stopgap for a few years, then he probably do a restructuring from behind the screen. Ole looks pretty clueless and he does thing without a plan, well he has a plan but a naive and stupid plan that wont work.
That's exactly what Sky is saying. You can't go to success from failure by jumping to the top. It's a process. In this process you have to get better players than you have currently and when we get to the situation where those players are no longer good enough you sell them and then get much better players.
World class players are not going to come to be in a relegation battle. They may come to play for a team that's challenging for the CL spots and trophies.
So right now we don't need to even look for them. We need players who can get us challenging for the CL spots.
Then once we reach it, then look for the world class players. Half of the PL is better than most of the players we have now.
It's entirely due to Ole than we didn't strengthen.