Agreed. Dont see the issue the correct decision was made. Both cbs on a yellow one with a blatant foul the other with a handball. Both second bookable offences.
CL 19/20 Group Stages: Week 6 (Last Round)
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It was a calamity sequence a la Stan & Ollie that hurts the eyes but sh*t happens and this was a trainwreck.
Wasnt a foul on blind at all.
By which standard is this a clear goalscoring opportunity?
Besides the fact that the first foul was on Blind, and he might have gotten a second yellow for his foul after that but VAR should have given Ajax a free kick and therefore judged Veltman's hands irrelevant.
Contrary to two weeks ago, it's at least the right moment and the Chelsea's player foot is clearly off side if all the relevant Ajax defenders are in the shot.
I don't give a rat's arse about Ajax fans and how poorly they are being treated by UEFA, that's their problem. You weren't screwed out of anything, mistakes happen in every match, you just remember those that suit your argument. All that stuff about Chelsea getting soft penalties is just bias. Ajax got away with handball in the first game when Tomori's header was blocked, you don't see me crying about it non stop. What happens to all that class and daring of Ajax when shit doesn't go their way? Do they instantly turn into crybabies?
The ref should have given Blind a free kick, really? Even though it was him who fouled two players in a row? I didn't realize Ajax players are supposed to be judged by the different sets of rules than everybody else. Somehow you're not bothered by bad calls against Chelsea, like aforementioned handball in the first game or just four minutes of additional time last night. VAR canceling your goal in Amsterdam is a travesty, but VAR not counting Chelsea's fifth yesterday which would have left you with a loss, that's fine, right? You can't have it both ways.
Yes, Ajax outplayed us last night for large periods of time in the first half, but truth of the matter is, they got lucky with two own goals. For all Chelsea struggles we did create chances but weren't clinical in front of goal even before the two red cards incident, like Abraham's chance right before Ajax's fourth. We were the better side in the second half prior to the sending off. Blind's second yellow was absolutely correct. The handball was a penalty. The second yellow to Veltman was in my view very harsh, but if you reduce Ajax failure in two games against Chelsea just to refrees' bias/mistakes/conspiracy then I don't have time for that. The fact is, you haven't done enough to get a point out of the first game and in the end barely got away with a point in the second.
There was no foul on Blind. He fouled Pulisic. Just because you repeat the same thing over and over gain, it doesn't make it true.
By which standard is this a clear goalscoring opportunity?
Besides the fact that the first foul was on Blind, and he might have gotten a second yellow for his foul after that but VAR should have given Ajax a free kick and therefore judged Veltman's hands irrelevant.
Contrary to two weeks ago, it's at least the right moment and the Chelsea's player foot is clearly off side if all the relevant Ajax defenders are in the shot.
not going to address the law I showed you and how you feel it pertains to that situation?
Imo it was a slight foul on Blind btw by Pulisic, but still a second yellow foul by Blind regardless (even if the ref had pulled it back for that debatable light "foul" I mean)
These Ajax fans remind me of the Barcelona fans. Always acting like some holy ass club that can do no wrong. That was a clear second yellow for Blind and a Penalty for Chelsea.
You're not the only one who feels sad about the VAR.
Just some examples of VAR rulings in the CL that went against Ajax over the last two seasons and last two matches against Chelsea both gave you free points and could cost us dearly:
- Goal disallowed against Madrid for supposed hindering of the goalie, with the goalie afterwards not even noticing a player was there after reviewing the goal and being asked about the reason for disallowing (1-2 loss, went on to win 1-4 though)
- Promes against Chelsea previous match due to checking of the wrong frame (0-1 loss)
- Penalty situation against Chelsea not properly reviewed -> double red card + penalty for obvious no foul situation (+two red cards instead of at most one red card) and no check made regarding the earlier foul on Blind
- 2-4 Chelsea allowed despite relatively clear offside
As such, I can understand your feelings, but I can't say I fully sympathise with you feeling as the one being robbed by the VAR in the CL since it gained you three free points at least and yet you still complain instead of counting your blessings.
Then again, IMO the match yesterday shouldn't even have existed since Ajax wern't champions last season, where PSV didn't even get through qualification, and Chelsea almost finished last in your league. (Sure, some other teams did even worse.
)"Obvious" foul on Blind? That's ridiculous!Great
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First it's a pretty obvious foul on Blind, which is ignored, then it's the penalty and sending off two players which shafted Ajax for the rest of the match.
It would be a bit of a surprise if someone doesn't get that Ajax feel more hard done by...
For me the reason this is perhaps hard to take for people is the number of events that were packed into the 10 seconds. Individually those decisions are not that controversial, and I doubt we'd even be debating any of them this much if they were more spaced across the match.
That's not the point, two young teams well matched wanting to press high can easily result in turnarounds. Ajax wasn't good two weeks ago, had trouble in the second half yesterday. Chelsea is fun to watch, only the stadium atmosphere was an embarassment. It's not about what Ajax deserved from Chelsea, it's that Ajax deserved proper refereeing. The point is that both the referee and the VAR make inexplicable mistakes at the expense of Ajax. There were more what I consider mistakes at the expense of Ajax but some mistakes can happen, others just can't. If you have both inexplicable mistakes and all dubious ones going the wrong way, there must be something going on.
The lack of extra time, alltough I didn't count the minutes, and the disallowed goal are typically make-up decisions, I already predicted your comment during the match "Now Chelsea has something to complain too, so it will all be allright". No it isn't, the referee and VAR had already decided the match.
I think it is, could have gone the other way. But where's the clear goal scoring opportunity?
Red lines go down the middle of the shirt, duh.Which Ajax defender does the red line go with though
He was clearly tripped. Or is that how people walk these days?"Obvious" foul on Blind? That's ridiculous!
EDIT: Blind got in front of him, winning the duel, then got tripped as the Chelsea player went down. Intention to tackle Blind is not clear, but the advantage of having won the duel was immediately lost and resulted in the situation where Blind was forced to choose whether or not to take a risk. (And tbh, he made the wrong decision as there were still defenders left. Still, Blind's focus on the ball indicates he had no intention to hit the Chelsea player, but that he was just a fraction too slow).
He committed the foul, completely knocking over the opponent!
You've some legitimate misgivings but this one is just weird.
Ajax and the Netherlands are the good guys of football.
Where does that line come from? Is it the Kamara-paper-test?:quality(50)/cdn-kiosk-api.telegraaf.nl/d2149a46-0060-11ea-a54a-02c309bc01c1.jpg)
Is there a better video? Chelsea can't be serious claiming Blind was the one fouling Pulisic by this video, can they?
-Possible foul from blind: Referee lets play on, could have given a free kick against Ajax"Obvious" foul on Blind? That's ridiculous!
For me the reason this is perhaps hard to take for people is the number of events that were packed into the 10 seconds. Individually those decisions are not that controversial, and I doubt we'd even be debating any of them this much if they were more spaced across the match.
-Blind gets tripped by the falling player, should have been a free kick for Ajax
-Blind gets up and seems to touch the ball, but trips Chelsea player too. Possible free kick, no card.
-No clear goal scoring chance, so ref should have stopped play to give Blind his not deserved second yellow card.
-Play goes on, shot hits Veltman with his arm close to his body, not necessarily a pen
-Not necessarily a red card for Veltman
Var had to review 6 decisions, from which 2 were incompatible. It was either giving Blind his second card, or letting play go on to the penalty situation. VAR just didn't.
What's hard to take is that VAR didn't handle the number of events packed into those seconds, and the rules made them into not individual decisions. They picked the worst possible outcome for Ajax which each of the individuel decisions, while the rules didn't even allow for that.
I agree with you that the VAR should have presented the moment with the proper lines, but for some reason they didn't. Two weeks ago they did, but somehow managed to present us with a picture from a different moment and cut so we couldn't see it was from a moment way after the ball was played. But still this homemade paintjob shows clearly the goal was wrongfully allowed.
I agree on the Barcelona fans. Especially since their club is pretty often on the other end when the referee makes a mess of fair play. I remember a certain Chelsea-Barcelona match which wasn't as bad as these two matches, but the idea is the same: The match is refereed like there's a desired outcome.
Barca gets a lot of 'unique' decisions when they are in trouble. Hundreds and hundreds of matches with players wrestling before a corner or a free kick is taken and nothing happens, and suddenly a referee decides to reward two penalties for that in one match. Never has a player recieved a second yellow card for kicking the ball within one second after the whistle, but in Nou Camp it happens. Refs make mistakes, it's just that they are very unevenly distributed over the clubs in the CL.
Think this is the worst round of matches I’ve ever seen.
That's absolute madness. The only objectively terrible decision last night was to give 4 minutes of added time.
Yep. Looking back now the ref made the right decision. Even on the tammy hanball no matter how harsh it is.
Ajax can still easily qualify from the group if they win the remaining two games vs Lille and Valencia. My question is, would you still be complaining if one of those wins comes as a result of a referee's mistake or a controversial VAR decision in your favour?
Yeah. No one knows why FIFA pretented to need years to come up with a reliable way to create calibrated offside lines when all it takes is a laptop with MS Paint and a finely tuned tinfoil hat. I tell you it's one big conspiracy.
Not as terrible as the deducted time in the first half when Ajax was about to take a corner. Not as terrible as not disallowing the 2nd Chelsea goal for off side. Not as ridiculous as presenting a shot from when the ball was already played to make it look like it was off side when it wasn't. Did you count it btw? it seemed short to me but can't remember much other delays.
Of course reliability was all FIFA was after, that's why FIFA also made such clear rules when VAR can be applied and when not and how far it has to look back. Can you disallow a goal for the ball out of play or a wrongly given throw in 9 passes earlier? Can you disallow a goal for from a corner when it was wrongfully given? No one knows.
I'm not complaining about referee's mistakes, I can handle that. I'm complaining about a pattern of wrong decisions by especially the VAR, who don't have to decide in a split second but just have to look closely and apply the rules. I'm also complaining about simular patterns appearently serving a desired outcome in other matches, with other clubs involved. Ajax will go through, it can't be Ajax' knock out that makes me mad, can it?
What mostly makes me mad that people refuse to see what's in front of them, and not the first time this decade. You've got the TV-channels tiptoeing around the subject like they are afraid of UEFA's lawyers bringing up the fine print in the CL contracts, players, managers and clubs beeing careful with suspensions in mind, the media without contractual obligations drowning in their own chauvinism and not wanting to question the show they earning money from too. But what really makes me mad is the football fans, who act like everything is allright because it was an entertaining and eventful match or their favourite won, while the most essential part of a football match, an equal chance to win for both teams, isn't there.
It's the same kind football fans that don't mind that the rich clubs get payed more for the same performances than poor clubs. They don't mind UEFA planning to make the CL into a closed competition for rich clubs. They don't mind watching the same clubs all the time as long as they can see the stars and get excited about transfer news, fake or not. It will get a lot more boring without clubs like Ajax of course, but just not boring enough to not watch commercials or pay for a decoder so that's not a financial problem, and there will be the refereeing controversies to keep it interesting of course. I do mind, it's our football and our European competitions, not sheik's and oligarch's and we are entitled to impartial refereeing, not faultless but impartial. Otherwise it's just UEFA directing a show, much like that American wrestling.
There was no deducted time in the first half, he actually added more time on! 1 min was added on but he went over that to let you finish the attack (when the ball went out of play).
In the second half he gave 4 minutes but blew up before 4 minutes were up. There's objectively no arguing that that made any sense.
As for where he got 4 minutes from, the VAR checks alone added up to more than 4 minutes and then you had 4 goals (with their subsequent celebrations) and 5 subs. 8 to 10 minutes would have been reasonable. 4 was just baffling.
What is the Attacking Phase of Play (APP) and how does it impact Video Review?
The Attacking Phase of Play (also known as APP) as determined by the referee begins when a team starts the attacking move toward the opposition's penalty area, leading up to a match-changing incident. The Attacking Phase of Play should not be confused with “keep-ball,” when the attacking team maintains a long duration of possession without purposeful movements toward goal.
What are some referee decisions during a match that are not reviewable by the officials?
The following are examples of referee decisions that are NOT reviewable:
- Throw-in decisions (including placement and execution);
- Goal kick decisions (including placement and execution);
- Corner kick decisions (including placement and execution);
- Foul decisions (including placement and execution of free kick);
- Offside decisions (unless an offside decision impacts goals, penalty kicks and red cards);
- Yellow card decisions, including second yellow cards (unless awarding the yellow was a clear and obvious error; Ex. the yellow card should have been a red card OR there was a case of mistaken identity);
- Distance of opposing players from free kicks or corner kicks.
The head referee can go back to review any incident that happens between stoppages in play. However, if play is restarted after a stoppage (ex. on a throw-in, corner kick, goal kick, free kick or drop ball) then a referee CANNOT go back to review any instances prior to that restart (except for a serious missed incident involving violent conduct or serious foul play). For that reason, the head referee may delay a restart until a VAR check of a reviewable play is complete.
https://www.dcunited.com/post/2017/08/02/var-frequently-asked-questions
No one knows indeed. Evil FIFA Deepstate keeping us in the dark about everything!
It doesn't take a genius to work out that my comment was directed at how VAR is changing the emotional impact of the game to the detriment of spectators. I certainly didn't mention that we were 'robbed' and that's just something you made up to then argue with yourself. Rather than whine like a baby you should instead be questioning why it is that Ajax have bottled it in the final couple of minutes of their last 3 games against English opposition. As for your sympathy, I don't want it.
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Feeling the heat hoping CR7 bails us out of another defenisve tinkering by Allegr... erm, Sarri. 
hoping CR7 bails us out of another defenisve tinkering by Allegr... erm, Sarri. Some? So there are more? Didn't make FIFA make a rule about all decisions?
Interesting questions, a shame FIFA's answers different questions below.
But does he have to? If he's free to choose he can make a choice that is favouring one of the teams. The head referee can even decide at which point in time the off side position has to be judged.
Appearently that's the case. I can remember a WC game in which a Spanish striker fouled a defender quite clearly, won the ball because of the foul and the followed almost immediately. So the head referee could decide whether the goal stood or not just by deciding whether he wanted to review earlier moments or not.
Don't exeggerate, we all know the FIFA is an organization of the highest integrity which only has the interests of the football fans and fair play at heart. There's never been any questionable conduct towards punishment for Brazilian players at WC's, the election of WC organizing countries is great for it's transparancy alone and so is the appointment of referees in both FiFA and UEFA games.
You've got a point about the corner kicks, but it's not a very good one because it makes no sense that a team can score from a corner that shouldn't have been given, but a goal can be disallowed when a goal kick should have been given. It also doesn't change the fact that the head referee has all the freedom in the world what to review and what not, which is an opportunity to influence the outcome if he wanted to. He can also freely choose to draw off side lines or not, and which pictures to show as 'proof'.
Noted, I extrapolated on the sentiment probably, given earlier comments made. (See below).
I seem to have confused you with one of the other Chelsea fans’ comments earlier on. Sorry for the confusion on my part leading to an inaccurate conclusion.
Language please, I’m not using derogatory terminology either.
Honestly most of that came down to sheer luck. Away Ajax should have scored more goals against Tottenham, some very near misses there when Tottenham was completely played off the matt. Ajax lead against Tottenham for what was it, 162 minutes? Maybe English teams should wonder how come a team with in comparison such an incredibly small budget can outplay them that long?
Tottenham got very lucky with two goals in the home match (poor coordination between Schöne and Onana gave a free shot a meter from the goal) and well... the amount of stoppage time given was also rather... much. That said, Tottenham’s strategy wasn’t really good even then, it all boiled down to throwing the ball deep, hope it is picked up and someone can shoot before Ajax picks up and attacks again. It worked for Tottenham, but it required a lot of luck and was relatively easily combatted for the majority of the match.
As for the two games against Chelsea, both results are completely down to the refs. Chelsea’s single away goal wasn’t that odd and if it wasn’t for the refs would not have been sufficient to win. That you might get a goal against when playing a team that has a - how much higher budget again? - shouldn’t be a surprise. But it should be a surprise that your goals are mistakingly disallowed.
Regarding the last match “against an English team”, 9 players with as many shots on target as your team during those 25 minutes. What else is there to say? They did very well, more than can be expected from a team down by two players. The real question is how come Chelsea allowed them to advance so easily to their goal despite of it?
Maybe you should focus on how come you got kicked around till that point, instead on dwelling on a result from a free victory - sorry, a mere draw - that virtually any team should have gotten against 9 players with twenty minutes left and just one goal behind.
I mean, it is just two unguarded players and an opposition team that has to work in the middle of a kick-the-ball-around training session for a long time... Ajax was robbed by the arbitration of a potentially epic victory that might have send Chelsea into a crisis, clear and simple. Does that sound bitter? Sure, because it is.
Just think of the knifes in the headlines had those two, or just one had not been sent off. I wouldn’t have been surprised had Ajax won by 3-5 with ten players. Ask PSV how playing ten Ajax players worked out for them.
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The whining from Ajax fans is kind of funny if you follow the Eredivisie. Hypocricy at it's finest.
It's obvious the match needs to be replayed.
Danilo, Rabiot & Ramsey instead of De Sciglio, Matuidi and Betancur?Feeling the heat
He is maaad! @Peyroteo @SportingCP96ok going to the bettors for a punt & the game
What the feck are you doing editing my post?
Finally an attacking lineupDanilo, Rabiot & Ramsey instead of De Sciglio, Matuidi and Betancur?
ok going to the bettors for a punt & the game
Now they'll probably lose and he'll never try it again
Finally an attacking lineup
Now they'll probably lose and he'll never try it again
That’s Ronaldo’s!
Did Ramsey steal that?
If Ramsey stole this.. the same he was doing for Arsenal so often
Well its Ronaldo goal, finally scored a freekick... but looks more like the keeper's mistake...