That depends, do you think Pereira and Mata are better than Pogba?
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
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Rest of the squad didn’t cost £90m?Two-way street, agreed. Pogba has been shockingly average for the most part but the rest of the squad have been appalling. It's quite weird that at times, Pogba was being slated for the rest of the squad not being good enough to stop him having to carry them on his own. Basically "why can't you win us games on your own".
How's about "why am I the only one capable of winning games?"
Rest of the squad doesn’t claim to be the main man and have whole team adjusted for them.
Also team has won plenty of game without or despite Pogba.
Pogba didn't pick his fee and he never made such a claim.Rest of the squad didn’t cost £90m?
Rest of the squad doesn’t claim to be the main man and have whole team adjusted for them.
Also team has won plenty of game without or despite Pogba.
Van Piorsing
Lost his light sabre
Sometimes I think despite this huge circus around him, he got also huge distance to himself and doesn't care too much about anything for that matter.
United can offer him PSG style contract and R.Madrid building the team without him anyway, adding the thing about Ole who's generally loved by the players says also something.
At some point we all thought De Gea is a goner in time when he was truly our most important player, which was pretty much almost always during last six years.
United can offer him PSG style contract and R.Madrid building the team without him anyway, adding the thing about Ole who's generally loved by the players says also something.
At some point we all thought De Gea is a goner in time when he was truly our most important player, which was pretty much almost always during last six years.
Oh, so we'll just ignore all his social media bollox shall we? And we'll ignore his hissy fit of not being highest paid after Sanchez arrived, shall we?Pogba didn't pick his fee and he never made such a claim.
It's obvious that you expect high cost and wage team members to contribute more. Cant think of any organisation where that is not true.
zenith
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If we can get around 120 mil for him in the summer and whatever chump change we can gather for matic, then it'll really help rebuild the midfield.
Which social media bollox? At which point has he complained about his wage?Oh, so we'll just ignore all his social media bollox shall we? And we'll ignore his hissy for of not being high-test paid shall we?
It's obvious that you expect high cost and wage team members to contribute more. Cant think of any organisation where that is not true.
And Pogba was never worth that money, we overpaid and it was very obvious. Pogba wasn't better than Pjanic who went for less than half of his fee.
Classical Mechanic
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Think we'd have won a few more points and would be a little closer to top 4.Gone / not gone, who cares? Does anyone really believe the last few weeks would have been any better with him in the team?
Jeppers7
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But McTomminays attitude doesn't mean you know what you're going to get....you literally didn't have a clue for the first 8 games of the season. In fact just two games ago he was poor vs BournemouthIt is the opposite simply because Pogba is considered by some to be so called world class.
But anyway you miss my point. I was referring to McTominay attitude and character which is not something Pogba displays very often.
As I mentioned this is a thread about Paul Pogba. There is a separate thread about Scott McTominay.But McTomminays attitude doesn't mean you know what you're going to get....you literally didn't have a clue for the first 8 games of the season. In fact just two games ago he was poor vs Bournemouth
Pogba may be a very talented footballer but I am critical about his attitude, as are it seems many others.
Maybe not. But he should absolutely try to repay the faith Manchester United have invested in him.Pogba didn't pick his fee and he never made such a claim.
So far, I would say that he has a lot to do to fulfil expectations.
Moved To Differently
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What are you basing that statement on?Rest of the squad didn’t cost £90m?
Rest of the squad doesn’t claim to be the main man and have whole team adjusted for them.
Also team has won plenty of game without or despite Pogba.
Apokalips
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His desperation to paint the lad as a villain. There is barely any point discussing certain players with certain individuals who have clear biases. It's quite sad to see.What are you basing that statement on?
He has been our best outfield player since 2016 and consistently one of the most creative players in the league. Pretending that he hasn't tried is ridiculous.Maybe not. But he should absolutely try to repay the faith Manchester United have invested in him.
So far, I would say that he has a lot to do to fulfil expectations.
Jeppers7
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You brought McTominay into the thread as some sort of stick to beat Pogba with but the truth is he's had a some good games recently and some poor games over the season. So he's inconsistent too.As I mentioned this is a thread about Paul Pogba. There is a separate thread about Scott McTominay.
Pogba may be a very talented footballer but I am critical about his attitude, as are it seems many others.
And to suggest that he has fulfilled his expectations is equally ridiculous. If you think he has then you are easily pleased.He has been our best outfield player since 2016 and consistently one of the most creative players in the league. Pretending that he hasn't tried is ridiculous.
Wrong.You brought McTominay into the thread as some sort of stick to beat Pogba with but the truth is he's had a some good games recently and some poor games over the season. So he's inconsistent too.
I was simply comparing the two players attitude and character.
There are two issues here, some overrated him when he was at Juventus they will be disappointed but that's there own fault and I didn't rate Pogba as highly as a lot of people do so I never expected him to be a great player but just a good to very good player with potential to be great in his prime years which for midfielders are a beyond 26. If you don't believe me, you can check my posts in his transfer thread from 2016.And to suggest that he has fulfilled his expectations is equally ridiculous. If you think he has then you are easily pleased.
M Bison
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I don’t think he’s as good as gone. He’s not worth the money we’d demand for him and I can’t see any club paying the 120m+ we’d be looking for. If we could get that sort of fee for him, I’d let him go in an instant.
Jibbs
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There are two sides of Pogba. Pogba as an individual is a very nice guy, a humble individual and can be a club ambassador, and then the other side is his agent, who clearly knows his client is the most marketable footballer in the world, and he can put the club at ransom to get whatever he wants for himself and his client. And this is the side of Pogba which spoils the culture of the club.Honestly, from what I hear from coaches at Carrington he is the most humble and polite person. He's always there for events with the kids. Signing everything. He's been there to promote the club to academy signings and to welcome new signings like Maguire to the club and he's stepped in for corporate events when the club has needed someone to. He also came back early last year from the World Cup.
He's been treated extremely poorly in the media, and clearly Neville has had an agenda against him. As soon as he's been out of the side suddenly Gary's passion about our poor form disappeared yet we were near relegation until a couple of weeks ago. Everything is around Pogba with Neville and that's unfair. Deranged.
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Understood and please don't think that I disbelieve you.There are two issues here, some overrated him when he was at Juventus they will be disappointed but that's there own fault and I didn't rate Pogba as highly as a lot of people do so I never expected him to be a great player but just a good to very good player with potential to be great in his prime years which for midfielders are a beyond 26. If you don't believe me, you can check my posts in his transfer thread from 2016.
Just to be clear. My main criticism of him is not his football ability; although he is too easily closed down.
My main criticism is his attitude and character.
Often when his creativity is most needed he goes missing and drops his head.
When he is on form he can be a match winner.
But really, how often do we see this.
But that's actually the issue, there is little wrong with his "attitude and character", you are mixing a relative lack of footballing abilities particularly in terms of decision making and defensive awareness with a problem in terms of attitude and character.Understood and please don't think that I disbelieve you.
Just to be clear. My main criticism of him is not his football ability; although he is too easily closed down.
My main criticism is his attitude and character.
Often when his creativity is most needed he goes missing and drops his head.
When he is on form he can be a match winner.
But really, how often do we see this.
They definitely arent better but they may be much more motivated.That depends, do you think Pereira and Mata are better than Pogba?
I cannot agree with you that there is little wrong with his attitude but you are of course entitled to your view.But that's actually the issue, there is little wrong with his "attitude and character", you are mixing a relative lack of footballing abilities particularly in terms of decision making and defensive awareness with a problem in terms of attitude and character.
You disagree but you failed to explain yourself, what makes Pogba attitude different?I cannot agree with you that there is little wrong with his attitude but you are of course entitled to your view.
In my opinion:You disagree but you failed to explain yourself, what makes Pogba attitude different?
He is not mentally tough enough. You either are or you are not and he is not.
He drops his head when things get tough.
And I question his commitment and loyalty.
These are mental and not physical limitations.
I much prefer a player like Frank Lampard as an example where you pretty much know what performance you are going to get.
Unfortunately with Pogba that is rarely the case.
So for example Pogba's reaction against City during our 2-3 win doesn't show character? Nor the other times where he jump started a reaction from the team? You think that a player that competed against Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio for a spot a won one isn't mentally tough, someone that has been often contested, criticized and booed with his national team basically because he isn't Zidane but still kept his moral high and has always been a good influence at clairefontaine isn't tough? Finally, what does commitment and loyalty means in this context?In my opinion:
He is not mentally tough enough. You either are or you are not and he is not.
He drops his head when things get tough.
And I question his commitment and loyalty.
These are mental and not physical limitations.
I much prefer a player like Frank Lampard as an example where you pretty much know what performance you are going to get.
Unfortunately with Pogba that is rarely the case.
As for Lampard, he is one of the best midfielders of his generation, I'm not sure what you prefering him is supposed to demonstrate. I prefer Xavi to Lampard does that have any negative meaning for the latter?
If you read my post you will find that I said a player like Lampard 'as an example'.As for Lampard, he is one of the best midfielders of his generation, I'm not sure what you prefering him is supposed to demonstrate. I prefer Xavi to Lampard does that have any negative meaning for the latter?
We can trade posts all night but as I said, you are entitled to your view.
And so am I....
Jibbs
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To put it simply... had we signed Kante isntead of Pogba in 2016, we'd have been in a much better position right now. We need more Kantes and Manes, not Pogbas and Sanchezs.So for example Pogba's reaction against City during our 2-3 win doesn't show character? Nor the other times where he jump started a reaction from the team? You think that a player that competed against Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio for a spot a won one isn't mentally tough, someone that has been often contested, criticized and booed with his national team basically because he isn't Zidane but still kept his moral high and has always been a good influence at clairefontaine isn't tough? Finally, what does commitment and loyalty means in this context?
As for Lampard, he is one of the best midfielders of his generation, I'm not sure what you prefering him is supposed to demonstrate. I prefer Xavi to Lampard does that have any negative meaning for the latter?
And I used Lampard as an example because he is an example of player like Lampard. You keep deflecting and I'm not entitled to my view, I asked you to explain yours, I'm not the one questioning the attitude and character of a player that has actually performed on the biggest stages of professional football while claiming that McTominay who hasn't seen the highest stages of football in his short career has the "attitude and character".If you read my post you will find that I said a player like Lampard 'as an example'.
We can trade posts all night but as I said, you are entitled to your view.
And so am I....
Because Kanté is a better player, nothing else.To put it simply... had we signed Kante isntead of Pogba in 2016, we'd have been in a much better position right now. We need more Kantes and Manes, not Pogbas and Sanchezs.
Jibbs
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Also because he is a better professional.Because Kanté is a better player, nothing else.
At which point has Pogba professionalism been actually questioned?Also because he is a better professional.
Judas
Open to offers
Mate don't you get it, he's got loads of different haircuts! He HATES the team, and wants to spit in the face of every fan.At which point has Pogba professionalism been actually questioned?
AFC NimbleThumb
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He’s the unassuming black man who just shuts up & gets on with the job, simply thankful that football has given him the opportunity to earn a good living.At which point has Pogba professionalism been actually questioned?
Pogba doesn’t drink/smoke/go out partying/gamble/[enter other vice here] anyone questioning his professionalism is riled by a family man that likes to dance or the elephant we all know is in the room?
Pogba's problem isn't mentality. It's that he's very inconsistent and usually a passenger off the ball. His form varies from 9 to 4 from one game to the next one so you never know if you're getting the great Pogba or the poor Pogba this day. Most world class players perform consistently through the year. Pogba doesn't. Of course on his day he's quality and a great player, but he can't be a world class while blowing hot and cold. Also he should do his dirty work on the pitch when he loses the ball.
The worst part is that one them has the reputation of being bad at timekeeping for his club and national team. It's not the better professional.Mate don't you get it, he's got loads of different haircuts! He HATES the team, and wants to spit in the face of every fan.
I agree with you sir.In my opinion:
He is not mentally tough enough. You either are or you are not and he is not.
He drops his head when things get tough.
And I question his commitment and loyalty.
These are mental and not physical limitations.
I much prefer a player like Frank Lampard as an example where you pretty much know what performance you are going to get.
Unfortunately with Pogba that is rarely the case.
I have several issues with him which make me question his skill and character.
He drops his head and disappears when his intentions don't come off. We see him wildly gesticulate at himself, the narcissist that he is, and then quickly disappear into a self inflicted sulk, which then carries on for several games. We often see performances when he literally 'cant be arsed' as though the club's issues and the opposition team is not worthy of a player of his status. He can't sustain a body of work beyond a couple of games.
Add that to his inability to play across the midfield; his fanboys tell us that to see his genius, he has to play left of a midfield 3 with XY player supporting behind, alongside and in front. And when that specific and complex algorithm of circumstances can't be met, we are told he has to be allowed a free pass, that we are lucky to have him. Posters used to mock Gerrard for his tendency to try stupid 'hollywood passes', and yet when Pogba's gets his 1 in 10 attempt right, it's propagated as genius across social media. Paul Pogba really is the ultimate millennial YouTube highlights player.
And that's before his 'virus' personality: he took the club for a free ride on his journey towards La Liga, doesn't want to be here at all, and has only quietened down after Madrid informed his agent they didn't want him this summer.
All of this has been pointed out ad nauseam by media pundits, fans and opposition supporters. But I'm sure his cult fans will offer excuses for all the points I made above, probably via a youtube highlights VDO.
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Tell me, why do you think so many fans dislike him? Why do I dislike him?Mate don't you get it, he's got loads of different haircuts! He HATES the team, and wants to spit in the face of every fan.
Bear in mind, I'm a passive fan who just reacts to whatever my team puts in front of me.
Judas
Open to offers
My honest opinion is he's not the player people believed him to be from the Youtube clips. The disappointment is totally self inflicted from not being truly aware of how he is as a player. He's really no different to how he was at Juve, apart from he's not surrounded by quality players now, which shock horror has had an impact on him.Tell me, why do you think so many fans dislike him? Why do I dislike him?
Bear in mind, I'm a passive fan who just reacts to whatever my team puts in front of me.
I could be completely wrong, but I see people talk about a Pogba that's never really existed, its not really his fault he's not the player people wrongly thought he was.
I'm not disappointed by Pogba, he's had some truly awful performances for us that have enraged me and made me livid, but overall if he left tomorrow, I'd be more annoyed at the fact we've never made the most of him, and had him back at the club when we've been a total shit show.