Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[welshwingwizard]

What is this all about? Since when has lowering the standards, making all sorts of excuses for the results & performances right now, ever lead to building a strong foundation and competing at the top?

Facts are Solskjaer inherited a team which finished 2nd the season before, whilst the fan base and club actually blamed Mourinho for holding the team back from competing further. Solskjaer came in and made it clear how he believed in this group and knew they were quality.

So what's changed now? Everyone wants to carry on like that never happened to continue their fantasy?

If we have gone backwards and the squad is now regarded as not good enough to even make top 4, then that's all on Solskjaer & the club.

I refuse to accept the club's rubbish propaganda. All i see right now is a club drowning, gasping for air and clutching at thin air.

My favourite post recently. There has been some serious gaslighting going on. To the point where our fans talk about us as a ream miles off top 4.

Yes, we had some issues but good managers should be able to rebuild without basically getting relegation form results. We should have been able to stay competetive.

Objectively so far Ole has:
A) established no destinctive style of play or plan of attack. We often look like a Mou team.
B) Left the squad threadbare meaning any injuries would dispreportionately impact us
C) got awful results where we barely create any chances

But because he talks a good game (of a project building for the future as though this isnt how all managers think) and we have recently won a couple of games, people are talking about him doing a good job (mindblowing lowering of expectations....Moyes would have been lynched for results, performances and decisions this bad) and saying he is the right person to oversee one of the most difficult tasks in football right now.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Well, Molde.... Cardiff..... arrgh! sometimes I feel like I entered a US political thread. By the way, Lampard finished 6th in the championship and lost in the playoffs. Wonder how he ranks with the other managers in the league.

Ha funny you mention that as despite all the poor performances, worst start in prem history & abject disgraceful performances the Ole cult is very much alive. Much like Trump supporters who can’t see the reality

 

[I Am Zlatan]

If you're Ed there's nothing to reconsider. By a massive stroke of luck fate has given him the opportunity to redeem his mistake. If he goes for Poch he can feel good about himself that we didn't have to pay his massive termination fee like if we had done it in the summer. A financial bargain. Now (end of season) is the time to move before Ole can undo any good he has done so far. Same thing we should have done with Jose last summer

But nope he won't do this. He's going to screw it up royally. We will employ no foresight and spend one more half season confirming the obvious by which point all the viable alternatives would gave been snapped up by other clubs

I don’t understand how the glazers and Ed got in these positions? We’re always reactive and not proactive, it seems they can’t even get the basics right.. I hope I’m wrong and they have a master plan, and is more complex than we see, but unfortunately with how they’ve done things since SAF retired, suggests that they’re absolutely clueless.

 

[Dec9003]

You seem to be creating rules to suit your own argument.

So if/when we sack Solskjær, we should compare potential new managers to him, rather than other candidates?
If we speak about getting Poch he should be pitted against the other options, not previous managers, in my opinion.
I also think that if you dare offer a different opinion on Poch, you just get back “well he’s better than ole so we must get him” which imo isn’t a good way of looking at it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ha funny you mention that as despite all the poor performances, worst start in prem history & abject disgraceful performances the Ole cult is very much alive. Much like Trump supporters who can’t see the reality

What's the difference between poor performances, and abject disgraceful performances ?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

What's the difference between poor performances, and abject disgraceful performances ?

Poor is the loss to Bournemouth where a draw could have been called the fair result.
Disgraceful is West Ham where we didn’t show up, we’re outclassed in every department with a manager who had no idea how to stop it

 

[Class of 63]

Thank Christ you are not the CEO of the club.

Why on earth should they give him a contract extension? He only signed the last contract back in March and has been diabolical.

If the club is convinced Ole is the right man to take the club forward, and by all accounts they do, it's a no-brainer, because as sure as shit is shit after every dropped point/under-par performance the press are going to be throwing Pochettino is the nailed on replacement for Ole stories around until he gets a gig somewhere else, or comes out and says he doesn't want the job, we've got enough distractions as it is. And if Ole is still at the club next Summer which looks likely he'll get a new contract anyway.

 

[Shark]

So if/when we sack Solskjær, we should compare potential new managers to him, rather than other candidates?
If we speak about getting Poch he should be pitted against the other options, not previous managers, in my opinion.
I also think that if you dare offer a different opinion on Poch, you just get back “well he’s better than ole so we must get him” which imo isn’t a good way of looking at it.

See my edited post above. What are are the other options you speak of? a proven and highly sought after manager has just become available, unlike similar options thriving at other clubs. The manager we have in place would not get a job in the PL if he left, he'll probably return to Norway, which speaks volumes. In your opinion, how long must we wait for the ''right'' option to come along, while we linger in mid-table obscurity?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Poor is the loss to Bournemouth where a draw could have been called the fair result.
Disgraceful is West Ham where we didn’t show up, we’re outclassed in every department with a manager who had no idea how to stop it

Against West Ham he was forced to play a team that looked straight out of the Van Gaal era. The bench was full of unproven kids... and Lingard. Not that i'm saying he's not partly responsible for the team, but you dont sack the manager just when things are looking better, and sitting at 7th. Not when Arsenal have yet to pull the trigger on Emery, who is more decorated.

 

[momo83]

Mate theirs no nationality connection. It’s quite obvious it’s because they are black. He could be from Australia it would still be the same comparison. It just doesn’t work aswell when you do it because the players white.

Why’s that all black people look the same while white people are diverse and varied?

 

[Lee565]

I think at the moment I would now step over to the side of keep to see if he can keep the decent results going up til xmas with a full strength side so that there can be no excuses if we are still looking poor come then.

I'm cautious about the idea of bringing in potchettino straight away as it would probably be best for him to have the break from football til next season

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Against West Ham he was forced to play a team that looked straight out of the Van Gaal era. The bench was full of unproven kids... and Lingard. Not that i'm saying he's not partly responsible for the team, but you dont sack the manager just when things are looking better, and sitting at 7th. Not when Arsenal have yet to pull the trigger on Emery, who is more decorated.

Can we stop saying ‘7th is great’ all of a sudden.

7th is shite

And we’re still closer to relegation than top 4.

Standards have got so low it’s unbelievable. Narrative for Jose was ‘ oh well got second but we were miles behind City’

For Ole it’s ‘ hey we’re 7th’ good times! How’s he managed that with a squad that should be in league 1’

 

[momo83]

My favourite post recently. There has been some serious gaslighting going on. To the point where our fans talk about us as a ream miles off top 4.

Yes, we had some issues but good managers should be able to rebuild without basically getting relegation form results. We should have been able to stay competetive.

Objectively so far Ole has:
A) established no destinctive style of play or plan of attack. We often look like a Mou team.
B) Left the squad threadbare meaning any injuries would dispreportionately impact us
C) got awful results where we barely create any chances

But because he talks a good game (of a project building for the future as though this isnt how all managers think) and we have recently won a couple of games, people are talking about him doing a good job (mindblowing lowering of expectations....Moyes would have been lynched for results, performances and decisions this bad) and saying he is the right person to oversee one of the most difficult tasks in football right now.

Lampard’s job at Chelsea means that if there’s a next set of bad results Ole really will look ridiculous if he starts going on about “but in 2 years, need transfers”

 

[Leftback99]

Poor is the loss to Bournemouth where a draw could have been called the fair result.
Disgraceful is West Ham where we didn’t show up, we’re outclassed in every department with a manager who had no idea how to stop it

And still nowhere near as bad a Poch's Spurs (full strength) against Brighton.

 

[Dec9003]

See my edited post above. What are are the other options you speak of? a proven and highly sought after manager has just become available, unlike similar options thriving at other clubs. The manager we have in place would not get a job in the PL if he left, he'll probably return to Norway, which speaks volumes. In your opinion, how long must we wait for the ''right'' option to come along, while we linger in mid-table obscurity?

I’ve never mentioned waiting for anything, nor have I mentioned the right option.
I feel as though you’re just copy pasting your responses from previous conversations at this point.
If we sack Solskjær, do you not think the next potential manager should be compared with other potential managers?
We could say, well yeah, Poch is better than Moyes and Ole, but that isn’t helpful to us, he needs to be better than his competitors.
I don’t really agree that Poch is a proven option, the good things he’s done at Tottenham and Southampton don’t necessarily translate to what will be expected of him with us.
If Poch came to united, he would need to improve the squad and win the big trophies, he’s never done that.
He might be able to, he might not, but just to say well he’s better than Ole so I’m sure he’ll be fine isn’t really the best way to look at it.

 

[el3mel]

Against West Ham he was forced to play a team that looked straight out of the Van Gaal era. The bench was full of unproven kids... and Lingard. Not that i'm saying he's not partly responsible for the team, but you dont sack the manager just when things are looking better, and sitting at 7th. Not when Arsenal have yet to pull the trigger on Emery, who is more decorated.

So are we officially the new Everton ?

 

[Shark]

I’ve never mentioned waiting for anything, nor have I mentioned the right option.
I feel as though you’re just copy pasting your responses from previous conversations at this point.
If we sack Solskjær, do you not think the next potential manager should be compared with other potential managers?
We could say, well yeah, Poch is better than Moyes and Ole, but that isn’t helpful to us, he needs to be better than his competitors.
I don’t really agree that Poch is a proven option, the good things he’s done at Tottenham and Southampton don’t necessarily translate to what will be expected of him with us.
If Poch came to united, he would need to improve the squad and win the big trophies, he’s never done that.
He might be able to, he might not, but just to say well he’s better than Ole so I’m sure he’ll be fine isn’t really the best way to look at it.

You never mentioned waiting, but your general point is that Poch shouldn't be compared to Ole, but other candidates, so I simply asked who these other candidates are, as we'd need to wait for them to become available surely? I've already made my mind up, I think we should be all over Poch, who as you say isn't exactly proven in winning trophies, but he's maintained a standard at Spurs for 5 years, that we will firstly need to aspire to before even thinking of winning the PL/CL. Consistent top four finishes would be a good start in getting us back on track, the trophies will follow, or maybe not, but continuing with Ole while he has us closer to relegation then top four definitely, in my mind, isn't the way to go.

 

[AshRK]

If you're Ed there's nothing to reconsider. By a massive stroke of luck fate has given him the opportunity to redeem his mistake. If he goes for Poch he can feel good about himself that we didn't have to pay his massive termination fee like if we had done it in the summer. A financial bargain. Now (end of season) is the time to move before Ole can undo any good he has done so far. Same thing we should have done with Jose last summer

But nope he won't do this. He's going to screw it up royally. We will employ no foresight and spend one more half season confirming the obvious by which point all the viable alternatives would gave been snapped up by other clubs

What makes you think Poch would be ready to join us right away. I think he could do with a good break till the summer before taking on the next job.

 

[Dec9003]

You never mentioned waiting, but your general point is that Poch shouldn't be compared to Ole, but other candidates, so I simply asked who these other candidates are, as we'd need to wait for them to become available surely? I've already made my mind up, I think we should be all over Poch, who as you say isn't exactly proven in winning trophies, but he's maintained a standard at Spurs for 5 years, that we will firstly need to aspire to before even thinking of winning the PL/CL. Consistent top four finishes would be a good start in getting us back on track, the trophies will follow, or maybe not, but continuing with Ole while he has us closer to relegation then top four definitely, in my mind, isn't the way to go.

There are plenty of other managers all over Europe, some like Allegri who would be available just as one example.
We might need to wait for other managers to become available if we wanted them over Pochettino, you wouldn’t be able to get Rodgers or one of the few promising German managers since they’re already in jobs.
Those managers should be considered though, Poch being out of a job (after getting sacked due to bad long term results) shouldn’t mean we just go for him and ignore potentially more suitable options.
It may be that Poch is the best option, but we just simply don’t know that.
Also, you don’t need consecutive top four finishes before you can compete for trophies, we’ve won trophies in the last few years without always getting champions league football.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Mate theirs no nationality connection. It’s quite obvious it’s because they are black. He could be from Australia it would still be the same comparison. It just doesn’t work aswell when you do it because the players white.

Usually i avoid this but maybe just maybe they are both similiar in height, way of playing football, both are quick and skilled. Maybe....

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Why’s that all black people look the same while white people are diverse and varied?

According to Asian people (or at the least, the Chinese - I lived there for a couple of years), white people DO all look the same.

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

I don't like the term Ole cult but posts like this is why that term exists. Pochettino is a far better manager than Ole, it shouldn't be hard to admit that even if you want Ole to stay.

Unfortunately you provide no refutation to any of the points that I made but still directly jump to the conclusion. Empirical evidence?

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

Can we stop saying ‘7th is great’ all of a sudden.

7th is shite

And we’re still closer to relegation than top 4.

And so is Tottenham, while being managed by the coveted one. League position counts for nothing at this stage of the season.

 

[welshwingwizard]

you don’t think the squad has improved since Ole came in ?
You don’t think AWB , Maguire and James. Have improved things
You don’t think that finally getting rid ( even if not permanently in some cases ) of dead wood like Sanchez ,Smalling , Lukaku is a positive .
Ole has made 3 signings All of them successful 2 more windows and we will be a force again

Its obvious the squad hasnt improved because the decisions taken in the summer left gaping holes which were negligent.

Not bringing in a replacement for Lukaku has cost us dear. He may not have been perfect but he guarentees goals against botttom half teams where we have struggled. Even if only on the bench it he would have covered for Martial when he was injured as Rashford doesn't play well as CF. The money meant nothing to us in comparison to the Lost goals.

Then as for smalling I actually reckon he and mcguire would have had a formidable partnership and was our second best defender. Meanwhile lindelhof still isnt that proven beyond his purple patch for half last season.

The really annoying thing is Ole attributed getting rid of these as not compatible with the system he wants to play. Yet we are still to see this mythical high press attacking system. Its in his head.

Thats all without even touching the midfield disaster and not bringing anyone in to a midfield already desperate for quality. He is lucky fred has had a couple of good games and people believe he has suddently become great.

 

[Conor]

That’s not nonsense at all. It’s complete fact. What other Prem team would want him? 0

Championship? With quality managers like Bielsa in there I’d say not many- bottom part of the league may take a punt?

So look at the reality.

Cheers

It's complete fact that no team in either league would want him, when we are 4th in points since he took over, with him not having his best player for the majority of this season? Give over with the hyperbole, some of you are seriously incapable of making a logical, balanced argument against him, it's extremely weird.

 

[Greck]

What makes you think Poch would be ready to join us right away. I think he could do with a good break till the summer before taking on the next job.

I said end of season not right away but we should move for him now

 

[Josep Dowling]

Except we weren't a second place team, we were a team on the decline after an over performing season with no investment. Ole said all the right things to motivate the players to do better, and it worked until that motivation dropped.

Investments have been made since then, and they are good investments.

Surely no one genuinely believes this team/squad player for player especially without Pogba and Martial are good enough for top 3. Realistically we have the worst team player for player of the top 7. Potential is another matter. Ole's job is to realise that potential and do good business in the next two windows. He has also managed us well in big games. "Lowering the standards" is likely a tac to take pressure off the youngsters and allow them to express themselves.

That just isn’t true though is it. Had Mourinho got a CB and we got a better CM than Fred (which Jose said wasn’t his signing) things would have been a lot better. He was proved right as we just spent £80m on a target he wanted for £70m.

 

[Josep Dowling]

It's complete fact that no team in either league would want him, when we are 4th in points since he took over, with him not having his best player for the majority of this season? Give over with the hyperbole, some of you are seriously incapable of making a logical, balanced argument against him, it's extremely weird.

This season we have gone away to AZ Alkmaar and not had a shot on target. Same thing happened at Partizan Belgrade away and we won by a penalty. Up until Norwich we hadn’t mustered more than one goal in a game since the opening game. That’s off the back of our terrible form at the end of last season.

Our ‘form’ that keeps being banged on about is two wins against Partizan Belgrade, a league cup win against Chelsea, Norwich who are bottom of the league and Brighton who survived on the last day of season 4 months ago. The only game that could be tricky we lost to Bournemouth.

When Solskjaer does leave I can only see him working in Norway again. No top club would go anywhere him and being associated to a club as a player should not give you a right to one of the biggest managerial jobs in football.

 

[mu4c_20le]

That just isn’t true though is it. Had Mourinho got a CB and we got a better CM than Fred (which Jose said wasn’t his signing) things would have been a lot better. He was proved right as we just spent £80m on a target he wanted for £70m.

Not unless he also signed a new RB. Part of his downfall was relying on the likes of Valencia and Young and signing two dud CBs instead of fullbacks.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Can you please stop spouting absolute nonsense. Cheers.

And you know this as fact?

Are you suggesting that after he failed miserably and was sacked by Cardiff, both of the following happened...

A. Championship clubs were secretly coming to Ole to offer him work - this was not picked up on by any media.

B. He turned down Championship managerial positions to work with fecking Molde.

You genuinely think both of those things happened...? Have a think about it properly before replying.

 

[Mainoldo]

Why’s that all black people look the same while white people are diverse and varied?

I’m black and I don’t really care. If you’re black and care about this Yorke and Cole; Rashford and Martial thing. You’ve got more time on your hands than me.

 

[Mainoldo]

Usually i avoid this but maybe just maybe they are both similiar in height, way of playing football, both are quick and skilled. Maybe....

Mate they are nothing alike expect colour. But your are preaching to the wrong person. I don’t care.

 

[mancave bear]

Are you suggesting that after he failed miserably and was sacked by Cardiff, both of the following happened...

A. Championship clubs were secretly coming to Ole to offer him work - this was not picked up on by any media.

B. He turned down Championship managerial positions to work with fecking Molde.

You genuinely think both of those things happened...? Have a think about it properly before replying.

He wanted to stay home in Norway, close to his kids. Belive it or not!

 

[mancave bear]

Judge Oles football and style after he have got 7 transfers, and half a season to make them work together as a team. Not before.

 

[Mainoldo]

Judge Oles football and style after he have got 7 transfers, and half a season to make them work together as a team. Not before.

So 3 years then.

 

[mancave bear]

So 3 years then.

Its a shame if that will take 3 years.

We should have got 7 transfers by the second window (5 + 2). And then we could see the change in style in the end of the season.

Making them able to run like Klops players, will take some years. But we will get there : )

 

[Tom Cato]

This season we have gone away to AZ Alkmaar and not had a shot on target. Same thing happened at Partizan Belgrade away and we won by a penalty. Up until Norwich we hadn’t mustered more than one goal in a game since the opening game. That’s off the back of our terrible form at the end of last season.

Our ‘form’ that keeps being banged on about is two wins against Partizan Belgrade, a league cup win against Chelsea, Norwich who are bottom of the league and Brighton who survived on the last day of season 4 months ago. The only game that could be tricky we lost to Bournemouth.

When Solskjaer does leave I can only see him working in Norway again. No top club would go anywhere him and being associated to a club as a player should not give you a right to one of the biggest managerial jobs in football.

Zinedine Zidane and Pep Guardiola. Do you think any of them had any type of pedigree to go anywhere near their respective first time managerial teams?

I love how absolutely negative you are being. It's like watching the Impeachment testimony and the GOP making things up to fit their agenda. What impresses me is that you manage to be negative about good results. Hell, even beating Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is suddenly a "whoopdedoo". Unless you forget, both teams started with reduced strength and had their best teams on in the end. We beat them soundly, again. Liverpool 1-1 at Old Trafford, should have won.

We had 9 first team players on the injury list at one point. Martial and Pogba have been out big parts of the season, as has Luke Shaw. Axel Tuanzebe is injured, along with Angel Gomes. Rashford and Greenwood have missed games, McTominay is injured now. I know that you're about to say something amazing along the lines of "Injuries doesn't matter". And I'll say "So we can win the league with the reserve team?" And you go on about how Norwich are terrible, and I mention that Norwich beat Manchester City, badly. You might moan about Brighton being terrible, and Ill prod you and show you the statsheet for the 3-0 win against Tottenham. AND SO ON. You know, when you pretend that only a handful of games in the Premier League is tricky, maybe you should look at reality a bit. Teams drop points left and right to anyone and everywhere.

Do you have ANY idea how impossible frustrating it is at times to see this kind of argumentation being thrown around without any justification behind it besides teams being "no name teams"? oh yeah we beat Leicester as well, they're pretty good this year, best defense in the premier league. KINDA LIKE OURS (we're 4th in GA, not too bad. That's Goals Against). We still haven't allowed goals in the Europa League. We remain the only team to do so. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.

So far we've played Liverpool, Chelsea twice, Arsenal. Two wins Two draw. Of course none of those games matter because it's not the REAL test. The REAL test comes next game, always the next game.

Our next game is Sheffield United. They have a GREAT defensive side and made short work of Tottenham last round. If we walk away with a win, I look forward to hearing about how its just Sheffield United and no one should be impressed. Isn't it just a awful existence when you can only bring yourself to feel good about good performances against 5 teams in a league of 20?

 

[M16Red]

Zinedine Zidane and Pep Guardiola. Do you think any of them had any type of pedigree to go anywhere near their respective first time managerial teams?

I love how absolutely negative you are being. It's like watching the Impeachment testimony and the GOP making things up to fit their agenda. What impresses me is that you manage to be negative about good results. Hell, even beating Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is suddenly a "whoopdedoo". Unless you forget, both teams started with reduced strength and had their best teams on in the end. We beat them soundly, again. Liverpool 1-1 at Old Trafford, should have won.

We had 9 first team players on the injury list at one point. Martial and Pogba have been out big parts of the season, as has Luke Shaw. Axel Tuanzebe is injured, along with Angel Gomes. Rashford and Greenwood have missed games, McTominay is injured now. I know that you're about to say something amazing along the lines of "Injuries doesn't matter". And I'll say "So we can win the league with the reserve team?" And you go on about how Norwich are terrible, and I mention that Norwich beat Manchester City, badly. You might moan about Brighton being terrible, and Ill prod you and show you the statsheet for the 3-0 win against Tottenham. AND SO ON. You know, when you pretend that only a handful of games in the Premier League is tricky, maybe you should look at reality a bit. Teams drop points left and right to anyone and everywhere.

Do you have ANY idea how impossible frustrating it is at times to see this kind of argumentation being thrown around without any justification behind it besides teams being "no name teams"? oh yeah we beat Leicester as well, they're pretty good this year, best defense in the premier league. KINDA LIKE OURS (we're 4th in GA, not too bad. That's Goals Against). We still haven't allowed goals in the Europa League. We remain the only team to do so. I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.

So far we've played Liverpool, Chelsea twice, Arsenal. Two wins Two draw. Of course none of those games matter because it's not the REAL test. The REAL test comes next game, always the next game.

Our next game is Sheffield United. They have a GREAT defensive side and made short work of Tottenham last round. If we walk away with a win, I look forward to hearing about how its just Sheffield United and no one should be impressed. Isn't it just a awful existence when you can only bring yourself to feel good about good performances against 5 teams in a league of 20?

Bang on..

 

[el3mel]

Our next game is Sheffield United. They have a GREAT defensive side and made short work of Tottenham last round. If we walk away with a win, I look forward to hearing about how its just Sheffield United and no one should be impressed. Isn't it just a awful existence when you can only bring yourself to feel good about good performances against 5 teams in a league of 20?

And if we lose it'll be thanks to the players being crap, Woodward being shite, the board failing to back Ole, Shieffield having better squad than us .. etc. Why are you trying to look at it from one perspective ?

 

[Leftback99]

And if we lose it'll be thanks to the players being crap, Woodward being shite, the board failing to back Ole, Shieffield having better squad than us .. etc. Why are you trying to look at it from one perspective ?

Maybe it's just a tough game where any team would struggle at the moment. Liverpool required a goalkeeper howler to win, Arsenal and Burnley were comfortably beaten.