Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think it is time for him to go. We are not solid when teams come at us with physicality and we also struggle a lot in attack.
The squad is too thin in midfield and attack and I guess he is not fully to blame for that. We should have gone for 2 more players in this summer.

 

[el3mel]

The squad is poor though. When everyone is fit we can field a strong enough staring XI, but a couple of injuries and the quality drops substantially.

Of the players we started with today, who would you say are banged on top 4 quality players? DDG, Maguire, AWB, Martial and Rashford? Maybe James? 6 players maybe and 3 of those very recent arrivals

We had "world class" managers LvG and Jose and they usually got beat by Spurs as well so what does that say? Is Poch better than those too?

We're not repeating this again. The squad is poor but it's not as poor as hanging around 7th to 10th since start of the season, and not as poor as winning 4 out of our 13 matches. We should be comfortably 5th at least, with Arsenal and Spurs having a meltdown of a season. As for injuries why are you and others convinced these only happen to us and only this season ? We had far, far worse injury crisis under previous managers and particularly LVG. It's part of the manager's job to handle losing a key player or 2 during the season. Happens to everyone. If we were expecting Martial, Pogba and Rashford to be fit for an entire season then we were fools in summer.

I don't know how you guys are trying to convince everyone that we need better players to defeat Newcastle, Bournemouth and Sheffield. Don't you guys ever get tired of saying the same thing after very bad performance ? At which point will you finally give up and start to think the problem maybe, just maybe, in the manager on the touch line ?

 

[Paxi]

I'll like to see whoever predicted Spurs to be finishing 2nd and 3rd and reaching CL final while developing the best striker in the world and at one point the best English midfielder when Poch got the job at 2014.

All I'm seeing is people wanting to ridiculously underrate what Poch did that in favor of keeping an out of his depth manager. Ironically enough, back in Mourinho days the notion was completely the opposite here on Caf, Poch was the Caf darling that was example of playing without having a big budget, now with Ole's at the wheel people want to force the idea he did nothing special there, the players were improving on their own as he came and it was leading to where they went to.

Anyway unless Bayern steps up I'm 100% sure Poch will be our manager next season and will be fun looking back at all these arguments.

It would be mildly amusing seeing Bayern employ Poch whilst are fans think he's not good enough for us.

 

[jem]

One thing that is very damning about this start to the season is that has arguably been a pretty favourable run of games. Unless I'm mistaken, of the 'big 6' we've only played Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. Sure you can argue that Leicester have played their way into that group, but then Arsenal, who we didn't beat, have arguably played their way out. We've lost to Palace, Newcastle, West Ham, and Bournemouth and drawn Southampton, Wolves and Sheffield United. That is unbelievably miserable start to the season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Threw the game away when he subbed out Martial.

Our attack was blistering and it looked like a 4th was coming.

Cowardly decision to try to protect the lead after we were cruising in attack.

 

[Kurton]

The biggest issue for me is that he can't even coach the team to see out a result, even after buying two defenders for 130 mil. Even if you can excuse the attacking part as he did not spend much there, his failure to secure points from winning position shows he has not even coached that part well. It has happened too many times to be anything another than that. It just handicaps us so much when other teams are so well coached in the league.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Threw the game away when he subbed out Martial.

Our attack was blistering and it looked like a 4th was coming.

Cowardly decision to try to protect the lead after we were cruising in attack.

If he hadn't made that decision and they still scored, you'd beat him for the fact that he lacked the nous to make a defensive change to seal the result. Damned if he do, damned if he don't for some.

 

[Hampshire Rec]

The top and bottom of it is the team is poor and Ole is just as poor
I love him and the Legend but it’s just not good enough
That said not sure anyone could do much with what we have

 

[fergosaurus]

One thing that is very damning about this start to the season is that has arguably been a pretty favourable run of games. Unless I'm mistaken, of the 'big 6' we've only played Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea. Sure you can argue that Leicester have played their way into that group, but then Arsenal, who we didn't beat, have arguably played their way out. We've lost to Palace, Newcastle, West Ham, and Bournemouth and drawn Southampton, Wolves and Sheffield United. That is unbelievably miserable start to the season.

They were all at Old Trafford as well.

Ole needs to go. Even if he improves us I don't think we'll be able to consistently get top four under him. Cut our losses and take a punt on Pochettino or Allegri before the season is wasted.

 

[Shimo]

Having read the excerpt about him saying tactics go out the window sometimes, was willing to give him benefit of the doubt. Having watched the actual post match, the guy has just thrown the players under the bus and taken zero ownership for that first half.

Fine, we were light in midfield to start, so he set us up tactically to work with what we had. Prematch he even said he knows that Jones can play in midfield, so he had options to change things around. I was saying to friend middle of first half, he needs to either get Jones in midfield or sub him and bring Lingard on. It wasn't a matter of desire, the other side were comfortable in their normal formation, we were not. We were making it easy for them because they could match us one on one, we were not able to get any of our front 3 on the ball. We had 60% of the ball, so it wasn't bloody lack of desire in winning the ball, we just couldn't play with how we were setup.

2nd half, think he was spot on, I even think the starting formation was a call he can't be blamed for due to our injuries but, absolutely, without a doubt, after the first 15-20 minutes, it is all on his ineptitude to adjust more decisively in games that saw us play a completely shit first half.

 

[Shark]

It would be mildly amusing seeing Bayern employ Poch whilst are fans think he's not good enough for us.

I had a worrying debate with a poster last week that said that Poch shouldn’t even be compared with Ole, only other candidates. Thing is, our main issue, along with Woodward is Ole and his bang average coaching staff. Our fan base is full of people that think we should continue with Ole because there’s nobody worthy available, when our current manager wouldn’t even be hired by a relegation threatened side. Incredible delusion.

 

[Judas]

If he hadn't made that decision and they still scored, you'd beat him for the fact that he lacked the nous to make a defensive change to seal the result. Damned if he do, damned if he don't for some.

Thing is we'd looked ropey at the back all game. I'm sure he kept saying early on that when he took over attack is the best form of defence, and in this game, that was certainly the case. Surely we all felt a sense of dread pretty much every time they attacked.

 

[SteveJ]

I know this is trivial and petty but I'm stupidly annoyed by Carrick being mute every match. We might as well have Round & co sat there. They just appear like amateurs.

 

[AneRu]

Correct. Without any doubt at all, he's been given this season as a freebie.

Well Moyes thought so too until he suddenly found himself kicked out onto the kerbs. Manchester United is a commercially run football club I am not sure they do freebies when the club is bleeding money due to on pitch underperformance.

 

[el3mel]

I know this is trivial and petty but I'm stupidly annoyed by Carrick being mute every match. We might as well have Round & co sat there. They just appear like amateurs.

What's even his role in the coaching stuff ? Looks like he's just there.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

If he hadn't made that decision and they still scored, you'd beat him for the fact that he lacked the nous to make a defensive change to seal the result. Damned if he do, damned if he don't for some.

You have to play the odds. There was a lot bigger possibility we would of scored the 4th instead of conceding before the substitute. Their legs were gone. Ole deserves credit for bringing on Greenwood which fired us up but he also deserves criticism for taking off Martial which was a pretty cowardly move the way we were playing. If we had of been being pushed back his substitute would of made sense but Instead it was the reason we ended up being pushed back in the first place.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

You have to play the odds. There was a lot bigger possibility we would of scored the 4th instead of conceding before the substitute. Their legs were gone. Ole deserves credit for bringing on Greenwood which fired us up but he also deserves criticism for taking off Martial which was a pretty cowardly move the way we were playing. If we had of been being pushed back his substitute would of made sense but Instead it was the reason we ended up being pushed back in the first place.

The fact is that this is a young team that doesn't know how to close out games. If you ignore the wage stealing Jones, the oldest player on the pitch was Maguire and he is 26. Otherwise this could be an U23 team. Its the path of trusting the youth, they give you 3 magnificent goals in 9 minutes and then they also let in a late equalizer because they are not seasoned enough to know better.

Once as a club you've decided to go down this path, its pointless to second guess the manager. There will be high highs and low lows, all in the space of 20 minutes of a game because performances of young players come with a lot of variance. That's the ride, might as well enjoy it with no expectations.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

What's even his role in the coaching stuff ? Looks like he's just there.

Club legend. Leave him out of it. Give him 3 years and he might actually learn to speak.

 

[7even]

Nothing more to say. He’s just not good enough.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If he hadn't made that decision and they still scored, you'd beat him for the fact that he lacked the nous to make a defensive change to seal the result. Damned if he do, damned if he don't for some.

We scored 3 goals in 10 odd minutes. We were on fire and dominating Sheffield. They looked a defeated side entirely.

Then you take off an attacker for a defender and just invite pressure.

It was a nonsensical decision. We looked like scoring a 4th. You gave back the impetus to the opposition for no reason. Sense the game and how it's going.

If we conceded a goal with the team as is, so be it. But inviting pressure on was foolish. It was likely it'd fail considering how poorly we looked for a good 70 minutes prior to our explosion.

 

[BlahRules]

I think Poch isn't as high on our radar as people think, especially with his last year of work and sacking.

Failing a catastrophic run of defeats, or going out of all cups as soon as possible here on in, I think we'd even tolerate lower than 6th as a finish.

We appointed Mourinho when he took to Chelsea to a relegation battle.

 

[dwd]

We scored 3 goals in 10 odd minutes. We were on fire and dominating Sheffield. They looked a defeated side entirely.

Then you take off an attacker for a defender and just invite pressure.

It was a nonsensical decision. We looked like scoring a 4th. You gave back the impetus to the opposition for no reason. Sense the game and how it's going.

If we conceded a goal with the team as is, so be it. But inviting pressure on was foolish. It was likely it'd fail considering how poorly we looked for a good 70 minutes prior to our explosion.

Yep it was like watching a boxer who had someone completely on the ropes and then decided to back off and put his gloves up. People keep saying Fergie used to do this all the time. He didn’t. It was the 84th minute we went ahead for christ’s sake. Most games these days only get started then!

 

[Paxi]

I had a worrying debate with a poster last week that said that Poch shouldn’t even be compared with Ole, only other candidates. Thing is, our main issue, along with Woodward is Ole and his bang average coaching staff. Our fan base is full of people that think we should continue with Ole because there’s nobody worthy available, when our current manager wouldn’t even be hired by a relegation threatened side. Incredible delusion.

I know, I had similar experience. This poster kept comparing Poch's last year with Ole's and saying that Ole had ten more points than Ole and was using it as some measuring stick, whilst completely forget 4 previous seasons he had at Spurs. People are living in bizarro land.

 

[Thiagoal]

To be fair Klopp and Pep combined would have struggled getting a tune out of our midfield today! That’s down to injuries and recruitment which can’t really be pinned on Ole.
The Lingard/ Pereira swap totally changed the course of the game (although the haters won’t accept it) and the Axel one was logical. It didn’t work out but c’est la vie

 

[momo83]

Well Moyes thought so too until he suddenly found himself kicked out onto the kerbs. Manchester United is a commercially run football club I am not sure they do freebies when the club is bleeding money due to on pitch underperformance.

Run by incompetent schmucks. It would be just like them to decide to give time and money the manager that not only least deserves it after 1 year but should have never got the job permanently in the first place.

 

[momo83]

To be fair Klopp and Pep combined would have struggled getting a tune out of our midfield today! That’s down to injuries and recruitment which can’t really be pinned on Ole.
The Lingard sub totally changed the course of the game (although the haters won’t accept it) and the Axel one was logical. It didn’t work out but c’est la vie

That’s why managers have a style of play and system. So that when players get injured the replacement can fill the role and do a job.

 

[Kostur]

Spoiler

4 or 5 down against Sheffield who average like 3 shots on target in the league Honestly, he's aboard the Moyes train, no longer at the wheel, shit's gonna crash pretty badly.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Reading through some of these deluded posters on the last 15 or so pages has really spelled out to me how much some of our fanbase deserve mediocrity, as it seems they will believe any rubbish spouted from the club and convince themselves anything.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

The fact is that this is a young team that doesn't know how to close out games. If you ignore the wage stealing Jones, the oldest player on the pitch was Maguire and he is 26. Otherwise this could be an U23 team. Its the path of trusting the youth, they give you 3 magnificent goals in 9 minutes and then they also let in a late equalizer because they are not seasoned enough to know better.

Once as a club you've decided to go down this path, its pointless to second guess the manager. There will be high highs and low lows, all in the space of 20 minutes of a game because performances of young players come with a lot of variance. That's the ride, might as well enjoy it with no expectations.

Today wasn't about trusting the youth but about tactical awareness from the manager. At the end of the day it was the youth that got him out of trouble but it was Ole who put pressure back on the team by making that substitute. I've read a lot of people saying any manager would of done the same but I can't see that. If a team has the impetus you keep going until something changes. You don't change it yourself. That's the sort of move Mou would of made and he rightly got slaughtered for it. It's not even hindsight but the smart move would of been to make that substitute around the 88th minute. More to run down time than change anything tactically.

 

[Majima]

Spoiler

4 or 5 down against Sheffield who average like 3 shots on target in the league Honestly, he's aboard the Moyes train, no longer at the wheel, shit's gonna crash pretty badly.

I think he's figured out by now, that the fan base are completely deluded and willing to believe anything he says, so why not?

 

[lysglimt]

The manager is ultimately responsible for the teams performance, but there will always be extenuating circumstances. You have posters on here who brush away any attempt to point to such extenuating circumstances as excuses, proclaiming that "the buck stops with the manager", only to then go on to make them same kind of excuses for Poch. Clearly then, the buck only stops with the manager if they don't rate said manager.

Just as you're trying incredibly hard to downplay how much Spurs had been improving in the years leading up to his appointment.

Ignore him - he still Thinks ending 5th or 6th is a midt-table team - while 3rd or 4th is a top-team

 

[Krieger]

And yet that squad of players came 2nd with a points score good enough to win the league on many occasions in past years.

Do your research and see.

This myth that 81 points is usually good enough to win the league needs to die. It has very rarely done the job to secure the Premier League title in recent times.

Since the PL format was changed to a 20 team league in 1995 it's only happened six times, out of 24 seasons, where a team has won the league with 81 points or less. That's not a lot. And half of those came before 2000, so in the last 20 years, 81 points would have been enough only three times. That's not a lot either.

But back on topic, regarding Solskjær, the situation that we're in is not all on him, there are a lot of reasons for it. Lack of a clear vision from the board, then going on hiring the wrong managers who ask for the wrong players to be bought. It's all a big mess and we're are in the need of complete rebuild... again.

That being said, we've been really bad for the most part since PSG away, and when I see the likes of Rodgers and Lampard coming in an putting their stamp on their respective teams almost immediately and without spending much money, I have to ask, what is Solskjær's plan with us? What kind of football does he want us to play? Almost every game its the same thing, the players look like they're playing football for the first time in their lives.

We don't have a great squad, but seriously, it's not that bad. Yes, we've got some really shit and/or old players like Young, Matic, Pereira, Mata and Lingard who need to be shipped out ASAP but we've also got some very good and talented players, some of whom are regulars for their international sides. Yet there are so many games where the opponent is obviously better coached than we are. Where the opponent has a clear style and plan. Like we saw today with Sheffield United who outplayed us for 70 minutes despite mostly using players who have been playing in the Championship and League 1 in recent years.

So for me, the reason why we've looked so bad for the past few months is not simply due to poor quality players or injury troubles (although that plays a part) but mainly down to poor coaching. I really wanted it to work out with Solskjær, but unfortunately I think the job is just to big for him and he needs to leave.

 

[Majima]

Just as you're trying incredibly hard to downplay how much Spurs had been improving in the years leading up to his appointment.

Wow what a statement.

They had really been improving before Poch, appointing manager after manager, blowing all the Bale money on duds, leaving them with a broken team with no money left to buy anyone else.

Please go on, i would love for you to explain just what improvements were made leading up to Pochettino's arrival?

 

[lysglimt]

You have to play the odds. There was a lot bigger possibility we would of scored the 4th instead of conceding before the substitute. Their legs were gone. Ole deserves credit for bringing on Greenwood which fired us up but he also deserves criticism for taking off Martial which was a pretty cowardly move the way we were playing. If we had of been being pushed back his substitute would of made sense but Instead it was the reason we ended up being pushed back in the first place.

Of course he deserved both credit and criticism. But the fact still remains - on a day when our players looked like shit, we managed to turn 0-2 to 3-2 (before messing it up in injury-team) - and he still gets called incompetent, an asshole and a few other words.

Matches like this doesn't worry me long-term, because it shows that the players have the will to fight and the quality to play good football - but of course we need to find out why it took them 65 or so minutes to turn it on.

But the fact remains - if we don't score - OGS is incompetent
If we one match concede 3 goals- his signings are rubbish
If we concede a late goal - OGS is rubbish for making the wrong sub (while ignoring the right ones)

So unless we win every game 2 or 3-0 - he is useless.

I have said it before - and I can say it again - we are 2-3 players away from having a REALLY good side. Get Pogba, McT back and get at least 2 good signings in - and we can match practically anyone.

 

[Majima]

Ole, is that one of those games where you almost need to clear your head to analyse it?
"It's football. Sometimes it's beyond tactics...cause the passion and drive of the supporters first half and the energy of their team compared to ours. Such a big difference. Then we get a goal and our energy comes back in and belief comes back in and the difference between this team and last year's team is huge cause."
In what way?
"At two nil down I'm thinking, my mind is going back to Everton. No doubt about the drive, the energy, the attitude of these boys. They never give in. Last year we would have been 3-4-5 down. This is such a big stride forward for them, coming back from 2-0 to 3-2 up and of course towards the end some things like that happen."
Why do you think you were so poor for over an hour?
"It's not something you can put your finger on here and now but they looked like they wanted it more than us, believed more in what they did than us. But sometimes it's little margins here and there but we never had a shot on target. Maybe had one first half, that's not acceptable. It's not good enough. But the response after they went 2-0 up was fantastic."
What was the catalyst for the change in your mind?
"When you're 2-0 down you've got to go for it, play with less fear, just express yourself and just make things happen. First time Dan probably got round them and put a good cross in, and what a finish by Brandon. And then Mason scores, so the average age of the goals today, they were less than 20. That's something we're proud of. It's great experience for Brandon, Mason, Marcus to come back, cause at a stadium like this it's never easy."

I don't know what it takes for people to realise that he's so far from being capable that it's tragic. I mean, I love him, but he's a terrible terrible manager.

Yikes. That was cringe worthy. he sounds like a competition winner for goodness sake.

Man Utd manager ladies and gents. My word.

 

[lysglimt]

Wow what a statement.

They had really been improving before Poch, appointing manager after manager, blowing all the Bale money on duds, leaving them with a broken team with no money left to buy anyone else.

Please go on, i would love for you to explain just what improvements were made leading up to Pochettino's arrival?

The 3 seasons before Pochettino - Spurs ended 4th, 5th and 6th with 70, 72 and 69 points. It's a myth that Spurs were a mid-table side before Pochettino arrived - and they were consistently getting around 70 points all seasons. Even Spurs-fans admit this.

And they had Eriksen, Lloris, Dembele, Vertonghen, Walker, Rose and a 21 year old Harry Kane - it wasn't a bad side.

 

[Majima]

Of course he deserved both credit and criticism. But the fact still remains - on a day when our players looked like shit, we managed to turn 0-2 to 3-2 (before messing it up in injury-team) - and he still gets called incompetent, an asshole and a few other words.

Matches like this doesn't worry me long-term, because it shows that the players have the will to fight and the quality to play good football - but of course we need to find out why it took them 65 or so minutes to turn it on.

But the fact remains - if we don't score - OGS is incompetent
If we one match concede 3 goals- his signings are rubbish
If we concede a late goal - OGS is rubbish for making the wrong sub (while ignoring the right ones)

So unless we win every game 2 or 3-0 - he is useless.

I have said it before - and I can say it again - we are 2-3 players away from having a REALLY good side. Get Pogba, McT back and get at least 2 good signings in - and we can match practically anyone.

We will still be missing a quality manager, so we'll still struggle to compete if he's in charge.

 

[lysglimt]

We will still be missing a quality manager, so we'll still struggle to compete if he's in charge.

Agree to disagree

 

[Paxi]

This myth that 81 points is usually good enough to win the league needs to die. It has very rarely done the job to secure the Premier League title in recent times.

Since the PL format was changed to a 20 team league in 1995 it's only happened six times, out of 24 seasons, where a team has won the league with 81 points or less. That's not a lot. And half of those came before 2000, so in the last 20 years, 81 points would have been enough only three times. That's not a lot either.

But back on topic, regarding Solskjær, the situation that we're in is not all on him, there are a lot of reasons for it. Lack of a clear vision from the board, then going on hiring the wrong managers who ask for the wrong players to be bought. It's all a big mess and we're are in the need of complete rebuild... again.

That being said, we've been really bad for the most part since PSG away, and when I see the likes of Rodgers and Lampard coming in an putting their stamp on their respective teams almost immediately and without spending much money, I have to ask, what is Solskjær's plan with us? What kind of football does he want us to play? Almost every game its the same thing, the players look like they're playing football for the first time in their lives.

We don't have a great squad, but seriously, it's not that bad. Yes, we've got some really shit and/or old players like Young, Matic, Pereira, Mata and Lingard who need to be shipped out ASAP but we've also got some very good and talented players, some of whom are regulars for their international sides. Yet there are so many games where the opponent is obviously better coached than we are. Where the opponent has a clear style and plan. Like we saw today with Sheffield United who outplayed us for 70 minutes despite mostly using players who have been playing in the Championship and League 1 in recent years.

So for me, the reason why we've looked so bad for the past few months is not simply due to poor quality players or injury troubles (although that plays a part) but mainly down to poor coaching. I really wanted it to work out with Solskjær, but unfortunately I think the job is just to big for him and he needs to leave.

Good post mate.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

To be fair Klopp and Pep combined would have struggled getting a tune out of our midfield today!

If you’d given Pep an entire international break he’d have drilled and drilled the likes of Axel to play the DM role. He would never have just played Andreas and shrugged his shoulders because “that’s all I’ve got”.

Same goes for SAF, Klopp or any top manager. Ole had all that time to prepare and got it so fecking wrong in midfield AND with his shitty 3 man defence.