Nope because Mata re-signed well before the issue of Lukaku, you are not following the timeline at all
Like I said, you can keep twisting things but it all comes down to the decision to hold on longer to sell Lukaku and that's nowt to do with Ole
If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong
- Thread starter Rood
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Like I said, you can keep twisting things but it all comes down to the decision to hold on longer to sell Lukaku and that's nowt to do with Ole
Yeah that's the massive difference sometimes between England and Germany, as while you're sort of right as Villa were after him, he really didnt get a second chance after he took them down unlike KLOPP who was after he took Maniz down and couldnt get them back up walked out on them and was them given BD at a time when the top team BM were in meltdown and then did he walk out on them leaving them, the normally second best team in that league 7th.
Agreed.
All of these you keep mentioning are wild assumptions on your side.
You said that we somehow had a wage cap before we sell players - there is no actual proof of that. Lukaku was known to be leaving well before Mata signed an extension, so Ole is aware of that. We were linked with 1 striker in the Summer before Juve came knocking, Ben Yadder, who is reportedly on 40k EUR salary at Monaco and we can't afford that before we sell Lukaku?
I can sense a lot of revisionist posts after Ole is finally sacked and bet all those excuses that keep coming up will soon be forgotten by certain members around here.
What's the excuse of not bringing in another midfield then ? We can't afford a 60-80k per week midfielder considering we lost both Herrera and Fellaini who were well above that? You are having a mare here mate, seriously.
Oles coaching is just not good enough. Give im the job as DoF and bring in someone like Rose.
This pretty much sums up the theology of most fans backing Solskjaer. They have this roulette mentality that we can underpin short term failings and suddenly in three years time be ready to win the league with a flick of the switch.
"We need this signing, our players are crap blah blah blah" but tell me when Leicester finished 9th last season 14 points behind us and lost their most prolific defender why is it this season they are 2nd, almost 10 points ahead of us with a simple change of manager ? Do Leicester have the second best team in the league? Did BR need three seasons at the club to churn decent results along with consistent performances ? If Solskjaer can have a mediocre career in ten years of management and suddenly become a UCL / league winner when given "time" then by this logic any manager in world football can succeed here.
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Maybe there are some things about football and being a fan that I don’t, and probably won’t ever understand. I became a United fan because the best player from my country was a United player at the age I started getting into football, and I thought that was cool so I started following United, and even after he left, United were quite good so I kept on watching. After all these years of supporting the club, it’s formed an attachment with me that will be with me for the rest of my life, and that will never change.
That being said, football remains for me what it always has been, a sport that I love to watch and play. That’s all it really is. What happens on the pitch is what I come for. Football for me is a break from the mundanities of life, something to take the stress of the everyday away, and allow you to enjoy watching the beautiful game and unwind.
This may come across badly, but all the romanticism that comes along with it doesn’t really do much for me. I don’t care if our manger is a legend of ours, or a guy from South Africa, I judge them the same way. Similarly I look at a player from the academy, or a new transfer, and judge them through the same lens. I mean I can understand why people would look at these two groups differently, but that’s just not the case for me.
All I care for in football is to be entertained on the pitch. Everything else that comes along with it, I’m neither here nor there on. If that makes me a bad supporter or some kind of outcast on here, then so be it.
That being said, football remains for me what it always has been, a sport that I love to watch and play. That’s all it really is. What happens on the pitch is what I come for. Football for me is a break from the mundanities of life, something to take the stress of the everyday away, and allow you to enjoy watching the beautiful game and unwind.
This may come across badly, but all the romanticism that comes along with it doesn’t really do much for me. I don’t care if our manger is a legend of ours, or a guy from South Africa, I judge them the same way. Similarly I look at a player from the academy, or a new transfer, and judge them through the same lens. I mean I can understand why people would look at these two groups differently, but that’s just not the case for me.
All I care for in football is to be entertained on the pitch. Everything else that comes along with it, I’m neither here nor there on. If that makes me a bad supporter or some kind of outcast on here, then so be it.
While I agree on the sentiment Ole should eventually be shown the door a club of this magnitude should be making good signings irrespective. The reason Solskjaer gets much credit is because he's operating in a flawed infrastructure when it comes to the clubs hierarchy. If we have a reputable DOF (like most top clubs who are persistently making aquisitons in the market), we don't need Solskjaer's influence in anything because coaching management making signings Is the exact reason we have spent just under a billion in a decade and have nothing to show for it.
Ole is still part of this very problem. He like Moyes, Jose and LVG cannot guarantee his success here, if he's sacked and another manager deems James, Maguire or AWB surplus to requirements we are stuck in this revolving phase of backing another manager financially and wasting more resources in the process. Realistically the DOF should be the figurehead of recruitment no matter how good a manager is.
Three great signings, clear strategy, United through and through etc
Get Woodward and the Glazers out.
Results have been bad yes, but are bad results synonymous with bad tactics? Teams that get relegated for example, is it a case of bad tactics 38 games in a row? Take international football as another example. They only train together a couple of times a year so NT coaches dont really have the chance to to implement much in case of coaching and tactics. Yet big tournaments tend to get won by the "big" nations like Spain, France, Germany who just so happens to have the best squads. Do other national teams just employ utter idiots as coaches? Yes there are examples like Greece who won the Euros playing absolutely disgusting football with a poor squad, but that is the exception rather than the rule
We could do the clearout over several years, or we could do it as fast as possible. On the former we might stand a bit stronger, but it will take much longer to get the squads back to a healthy state. The latter might hurt then and there, but it also means you can get squad in order faster. Lukaku wanted away and acted very unprofessionally his last year here to force a move. He had to go. Sanchez was utterly useless and if Inter by some miracle want to sign him we get rid of both him and his 400k/week wages and will be in a much better spot as a result. Herrera leaving was out of his hands
Everyone wanted more signing but do you honestly think Ole had loads of funds available and loads of potential CM signings lined up that he turned down?
I agree that we being unable to hold on to leads is fecking frustrating, but this is as much a case of mentality as it is tactics. If you are trying to hang onto a 1 goal leads teams have two choices. Park the bus and attempt to shit them out or keep pressing. What is the better option depends on the circumstances and how much juice you got left in the tank. When a team manages to snatch a point or three in the dying minutes of a game 9/10 its because of lapse in concentration or a great bit of skill. We no doubt some ways to go here, but the teams we are putting out today are very young so hopefully this is something they can improve once they get some more experience
Yes, we should have signed a CM, but as i said, we dont know the facts here and despite rumors about Rice and Longstaff and whatnot during the summer i have yet to see any concrete evidence we were in for them. And repeating: Do you think Woody handed Ole a war chest of 200 million to spend and he decided to only spend 80 million net?
He is answerable of course, he is the manager after all, but it seems people are way to eager to blame all of our plights on him and not taking the circumstances into consideration. And i am not trying to absolve him of all blame here, he is not infallible. What i do think though is that he has made some very sensible choices regarding our squad, both players in and players out and hes been willing to integrate youth in to the team. This in turn will make us stronger in the future and that is mainly why i am willing to look past the poor results
For some people SAFs reign is the equivalent of a one-off big win for a gambling addict. They’re chasing something that is extraordinarily unlikely to ever happen again and it’s distorting reality for them.
I’d love nothing more than for Ole to become another Sir Alex and being United back to the team we were, I adore the bloke, but there simply isn’t any chance it’s going to happen.
Give that it is my firm belief that he’s not up to the job, I’m obviously of the view that a change has to be made.
Do I think that everything else at the club will magically come good? Of course not, but I think a good coach could do more with what’s available and therefore the coach needs to change. There’s lots of other things that I’d change if I had the power, but they’re far less likely to happen unfortunately, and this change is feasible.
I don’t have somebody in mind for taking over, so I’m not advocating for any one person in particular, I just don’t want to continue for too long down a path that isn’t working for the team.
Anyone trying to tell me this makes me a bad fan or that it means I don’t “get” football can quite frankly feck off, that attitude just makes you look a cnut.
I’d love nothing more than for Ole to become another Sir Alex and being United back to the team we were, I adore the bloke, but there simply isn’t any chance it’s going to happen.
Give that it is my firm belief that he’s not up to the job, I’m obviously of the view that a change has to be made.
Do I think that everything else at the club will magically come good? Of course not, but I think a good coach could do more with what’s available and therefore the coach needs to change. There’s lots of other things that I’d change if I had the power, but they’re far less likely to happen unfortunately, and this change is feasible.
I don’t have somebody in mind for taking over, so I’m not advocating for any one person in particular, I just don’t want to continue for too long down a path that isn’t working for the team.
Anyone trying to tell me this makes me a bad fan or that it means I don’t “get” football can quite frankly feck off, that attitude just makes you look a cnut.
Couldn't have said it better. In the entire history of football, every single division taken into account, pro or not and all over the world, we won't find many "SAFs" never mind doing in the PL and in Europe. The faith he benefited from, this isn't something we have to do for every single of the managers after him.
I think those wo don't want Ole anymore would love nothing more to be proven and see the man turning into the manager we dream him to be but the odds of that happening are low.
This is a fantastic point. Basically, the argument for Ole is that he needs several years to build the team in his own image of what United should be and then, at the end of that, we MIGHT be good enough to challenge.
Well, in that case, any half-decent or average manager in world football 'could' succeed here. Why is it specifically Ole that should be running this 'plan'? Because there are countless 'pretty good' managers out there that can do the same thing, who are equally or more qualified than him.
Any of them 'might come good'. They aren't currently 'good', but they might suddenly become good if we give them time and free reign.
Absolute madness.
Arsenal joining Spurs as another club with more ambition and intelligence than us.
Sad to see.
They simply have a better manager who has made their squad punch above its weight despite selling us their 'best defender', now people will claim Leicester have a better squad than us despite finishing miles off 'the mess of a squad' that Ole inherited for three consecutive seasons.
Maybe they are hoping that the club continues to decline so that it falls to Ole's level, the club's long and short term interests come second to the fantasy of seeing Ole turning into Fergie 2.0 despite so much evidence proving that he is way out of his depth at this level.
Pretty much this. A new manager could come and demand; (i) a faster CB, (ii) a more rounded right fullback who is good in attack and (iii) an inside forward instead of an out and out winger. How would be respond to that then? Tell him to work with what he has like we did with Mourinho and Martial/Pogba and risk upsetting that manager leading another fallout or spend another hundred million to put right the mistakes of the last rebuild and signing another couple of players to become the flagships of a new rebuild? We have been in a rebuilding mode and desperate for four or five new players in every summer since Fergie retired. We need to change course.
I knew what would lie ahead in this thread with the Emery sacking.
‘Arsenal have more ambition’ and ‘We can’t we do the same and get rid of Ole’
Lets see who they hire and how that goes first shall we
‘Arsenal have more ambition’ and ‘We can’t we do the same and get rid of Ole’
Lets see who they hire and how that goes first shall we
Why? It isn't going to change our position.
I doubt anyone has changed their stance because of Emery's sacking, those that want change have been vocal throughout this thread. You see that's all this club seems to do, wait around and see our rivals get stronger while we hold onto a manager that's not working, for far too long.
You knew?
Maybe that's telling you something, you know, when you objectively looking at the situation?
It's just another stick to beat Ole with. No mention of course of who to replace him, just get rid of him, that's most important to a lot here.
He was appointed 8 months ago, hardly much of a stint that warrants 'far far too long.'
I knew because I'm on the forum daily and unfortunately I am all too familiar with the Ole-Out campaign that dominates almost every thread mate
As is Ole by this squad. Even during the worst of times under Wenger they had a stronger squad than we have today. 2010/11 for example, they finished 4th with 68 points
Almunia (he was real shit though)
Bacary Sagna – Laurent Koscielny – Thomas Vermaelen – Gael Clichy
Alex Song – Abou Diaby
Samir Nasri – Cesc Fabregas – Andrei Arshavin
Robin van Persie
Thats a pretty strong first XI and on the bench they had the likes of Rosicky, Ramsey and Wilshere.
I am not saying people are in denial, but i think a lot of people have overlooked exactly how far our squad has fallen in terms of quality the last 6 years.
It will more than likely prove the point that United as a club have made obvious over the past five years, in that replacing manager after manager without any change to the structure above said managers will change very feckin' little
So let's appoint a woefully under qualified manager who was appointed by the people you state are incompetent because he used to play for us. Makes a lot of sense.
Actually, it makes none. "Woodward is clueless, never gives the right guy the job". "Let's give Ole a break, he needs time".
Do you see the disconnect there?
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What did Leicester change in the structure since last year to propel from 9th to comfortably top four in the course of 6 months, apart from the manager?
Thanks buddy
some quality posts in here amol.
The point was that Wenger had very little to spend and all the players you mention above were bought by Wenger for very reasonable fees which he deserves credit for.
Ole has wasted £130m on Wan Bissaka and Maguire. And such a outlay on two players who aren't even amongst the best in their positions was very naive when better players were available for considerably less IMO. His recruitment strategy was bad and I don't know how anyone can suggest he got the signings right for two above average players for world record fees.
Yes it does look good in a few transfer windows. We can sell a few players and get better ones. I would like for us to buy players keeping in mind the ones in the academy who can play for competition in the areas on the pitch. We need several players to make this current squad better and i think only in the summer of 2020, we will know.
A lot of people are over looking how far quality of our manager has dropped off as well.
And it's taken him until now to win two PL league games in a row against Bournmouth and Brighton. If you want to take away the results, eight months is plenty of time to see progress on the pitch. We're being consistently dominated by teams like Newcastle, Sheffield United, Palace and West Ham. Not only dominated but at times outclassed. Aside from James, I can't even point to his signings and say he's doing a great job there anymore when we're leaking three goals to a newly promoted side. What area is he currently doing a good enough job to stay?
He's already appointed, and his ability is currently open to interpretation, unless you totally remove any responsibility for this painfully poor united squad from the previous managers and Ed. He's trying to pickup the pieces from a 5 year whirlwind of abysmal recruitment. This abysmal recruitment was directly affected by the constant swapping of managers, each with their own vision and a few hundred million to throw at awful players.
The difference being the fans can and do exert pressure on the managers position, as fans if we could do anything effectively at all about Ed or the club hierarchy then we would be pretty unanimous on that front I'm sure.
Well you originally said he was held back by the squad, which i interpreted as the players he had at his disposal were poor. He was very clever in the market though and if anyone could make a great DoF or Head Scout i think Wenger would be a good shout, the man clearly had a nose for good talent
I firmly disagree with that bolded part, but i cant really be bothered to discuss those two any more
The article most probably has been written by Ed. Whoever the writer is though, please do not insult our intelligence with dross. We will see what happens after the Man City game and come back to this article.
Our squad is not so painfully poor that we should be mid table after our worst start in 30 years. Ole also spent more money than anyone else during the summer. I see shit results, shit football, and no style being implemented that I can decipher. He needs to be held accountable for this.
How did they go from 1st to 12th under the same manager?
Wan Bissaka was a very obvious choice when it came to RB. Many of the posters on this forum suggested that he would be a great RB for us. I don't think Ole deserves any credit here. It would be like me suggesting that Messi would be a good player for us. It doesn't take much nous.
Daniel James was touted by Ryan Giggs. I don't Ole even knew who he was until a few weeks before we signed up. As he was relatively cheap, it was worth a punt. Giggs was the one who should get credit, here. I beleive Giggs was also responsible for Martial.
Harry Maguire was a player who was wanted by Mourinho a year earlier, for a lower price tag. Most forum members also felt that he would be good for us. Again, Ole does not deserve any credit for bringing in this player.
So, for those saying that Ole is some scouting genius, I think not. In fact, if you want to credit anybody for being a good judge of talent, I'd say it's Ryan Giggs.
Ole simply should not be at the club, under any role. i wouldn't even have him as an attacking coach, because he seems to be pretty useless at that, too.
Out of interest, does anybody know if Sheffield Utd have scored 3 goals in a single match, this season?
Before the match, I was told that SU tend not to score or concede goals, which is not what I saw the other day when they played MUFC.