He had licence to sell Fellaini who had recently signed a new contract but didn’t have licence to buy players... ok
If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
Why are people so convinced we're a better team now than the one that finished 2nd and that Ole has done a good job with the squad?
Is it purely because our team is so much more likeable now?
Is it purely because our team is so much more likeable now?
I’ve moved closer & closer to this way of thinking the longer he remains in charge.
A number of fans want to give OgS all the glory for ridding the club of the ‘dross’ they don’t like but then minimise his responsibility for the lack of replacements/incomings.
The guy spouted how the players he wanted weren’t available but instead of finding alternatives he’s on record as saying he was happy to come into the season with this squad; so shouldn’t we judge him on what is, not what isn’t.
It’s all well & good wanting Sancho but there’s no guarantee he’ll come in a future window either; we also don’t have a squad rich in talent so I refuse to believe other midfielders that were available & ignored couldn’t have improved us.
OgS has taken the fans for idiots & continues to do so. If he gets credit for outgoings he must receive criticism for the [lack of] support incoming transfers.
Missing out on CL is mostly about the TV revenue, OT will still be packed with tickets in high demand. If you are worried about our finances, you should direct your anger towards the Glazers and not the manager. Rice and Longstaff were just rumors during the summer and i have not seen any reliable sources claim we were after them. (I like Rice though and think he would be a solid addition) We have no statesmen as you call them, but is that really Ole's fault? The last one was probably Rooney and he left a long time ago. The bitter truth is that we dont have any choice but to put our hopes in the kids, because Mata and Young sure arent getting any younger
Everyone is well aware of the problems you outlined, but none of these are problems that can be traced back to the current manager. In fact, most of these were present when he arrived and is mostly down to the way the club has been run from the top.
We tried brilliant proven managers and it did not work out so well. We need to prioritize and right now our main priority should be cleaning the squad of the rubbish and getting some young players in that can serve us for years. After we have gotten a proper core of players of players together and ridden ourselves of all the wage thieves, then we can worry about trophies. Its not a glamorous job, but it needs to be done and Ole seems to be willing to do it.
A lot of your post is fair and recognises that there are much bigger issues at the club than the manager, but the bit in bold is certainly not true. In fact a lot of the loyalty towards Ole is exactly because many fans realise that he has been left with a difficult job due to massive failures from the board over the years. There is a lot of reasons why you dont see the kind of visual protests that we had 10 years ago (see the 'when will the matchgoers crack?' thread) but dont assume that means fans are not pissed off about the failures of Woodward/Glazers
I personally think that the squad is good enough to challenge for top4 with a normal amount of injuries (normal for most clubs anyway, we always seem to lurch from one injury crisis to another) but that we were thin in a couple of areas (I am absolutely certain Ole wanted more players but was again failed by Woodward/transfer committee) and sods law thats exactly the areas where we have lost players this season.
I do expect big money to be spent in the next couple of windows, only difficulty is getting the ones you want in winter rather than summer.
Has anyone said we are?
Why? when he is not responsible for negotiating or closing deals
At the start of the summer, the manager gives a list to Woodward of players he doesnt want and a list of those he does - Woodward sells all the ones he doesnt want (some very late in the window which was part of the problem) and only brings in half the replacements - and somehow that is Ole's fault?!
We entered the CL three times in 6 years. It's only under Ole that we will probably be out of the CL 2 years in a row
Also every man and his dog is noticing a huge flaw in our tactics. As said time and time again we are being outsmarted by average manager with worse/equal sides then ours. The guy is out of depth and the results shows that
Silliest argument I've ever read. So one world class manager failed, so the course of action is to appoint someone with zero experience or talent?
I do not participate much in the forum but I would like to share a feeling that I get many times and is expressed by the article as well.
Are we supposed to have tried everything and signed top managers, but they all failed? So then we reverted to Ole, one of our own, since all the others did not work?
I mean come on.
We keep making the wrong choices. We are not cursed, and it is not a magic algorithm saying that we have to become the new Liverpool or Arsenal, just because we were successful for so long.
It is just a matter of applying a proper football plan, and stick to it with the right manager and the appropriate financial backing. Simple things are always the most difficult, it took Liverpool so long.
Is Ole the right one? Well try to put in his place Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino, Naigelsmann and so on. Would they have better results? Maybe not, maybe yes. The thing is wouldn't you feel more safe for the playing style they would implement since they have done it again successfully? Why do we accept again such a big gamble and how many years we may lose again?
Are we supposed to have tried everything and signed top managers, but they all failed? So then we reverted to Ole, one of our own, since all the others did not work?
I mean come on.
- Moyes was a wrong choice from when he was announced. We needed an experience coach back then to motivate our experienced winning squad and make the necessary injections. Mourinho was the way to go at the time.
- LVG was the only one with a playing style but was outdated, close to retirement and with mediocre transfers (do not know who is at fault here).
- Mourinho was a better gamble than the other ones, but again he was at a serious decline. In addition, he never achieved great things without class players with winning spirit that who would "die" for him, and we had almost none.
We keep making the wrong choices. We are not cursed, and it is not a magic algorithm saying that we have to become the new Liverpool or Arsenal, just because we were successful for so long.
It is just a matter of applying a proper football plan, and stick to it with the right manager and the appropriate financial backing. Simple things are always the most difficult, it took Liverpool so long.
Is Ole the right one? Well try to put in his place Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino, Naigelsmann and so on. Would they have better results? Maybe not, maybe yes. The thing is wouldn't you feel more safe for the playing style they would implement since they have done it again successfully? Why do we accept again such a big gamble and how many years we may lose again?
Should he be blamed for last season? I thought the consensus when he took over as caretaker was that the season would be a write off. Nobody expected him to actually come close.
IMHO Ole is not going to cause any long term damage but the longer we have him, the further we are off from fixing our footballing issues. Ole is not going relegate us but he is neither going to make us better, whereas our two rivals have the best managers around and can easily build an empire like SAF did for us. We are just delaying our rebuilding process by persisting with a poor manager.
Yep this is the logic we’re dealing with.We’re going nowhere fast now
Yep.
"My first girlfriend was a 7/10, the second a 9/10 and they both cheated on me. Therefore, the best way forward for me is to only shag 3/10 girls and hope the same doesnt happen again."
That is the logic some are running with, its utter madness.
Best post in the thread
You’ve just done exactly what my post highlighted.
Yes, it is all evil Woodward’s faults cause of course you were in on every negotiation. People passing opinion off as fact needs to end.
OgS stated the players he wanted weren’t available but let’s read between some hidden lines because we fall in the ‘OgS In’ camp & says it’s all Woody’s fault when it doesn’t go the way we like.
I’ll say it again. You either give OgS the credit for transfers in & out [entirely] or you do not.
Let’s go with your theory, he gave him a list of players to sell & buy - what the hell was he doing sanctioning sales without the replacement transfers being in place?
However you try to spin it, OgS played a role in a catastrophic summer window.
All I ask for is consistency in the way he is reviewed. He’s either responsible for transfers or he isn’t; we have no inside knowledge of the dealings so can’t simply determine which he has more responsibility for to suit our arguments.
This whole nonsense of the Cult of Mourinho must stop. People who criticize Ole or Van Gaal and especially Woodward and the way club is run are not automatically some blind Jose fans. Painting everyone with the same brush of "those Jose fans" is just an attempt to trivialize any kind of criticism. This is one of the oldest trick in politics.
Politicians just paint and name critics or those who question them as those "Right Wingers" or those "Liberals" or "Leftists" and then any kind of criticism is just brushed off as nonsense from "those" kind of people.
Politicians just paint and name critics or those who question them as those "Right Wingers" or those "Liberals" or "Leftists" and then any kind of criticism is just brushed off as nonsense from "those" kind of people.
Sadly at this point. Not even pep could save this squad. We are just for now stuck with a really bad selection of players, especially in the midfield area. Can pep, poch or klopp make Lingard, Pereira, mata, matic or fred perform better? I dont think so. They are just limited players sadly. I leave out Pogba and McT, simply because they can do their job good enough. Even though ole makes pogba a deep lying centre back most of the time. He should be up front attacking.
Anyway it's just one of those things, where we just need to wait a while longer before things get better. I feel like we are almost close to a solid squad after the next 2 windows. You know what we need already, but united need to do with the midfield what city did to their defence. But in the mean time, Ole does need to do better. Even with the limited players he has. Change the style of play. Whatever he was doing at the start, it worked. Even if we concede goals. The attacking part is what needs fixing. Where the focus needs to be.
Anyway it's just one of those things, where we just need to wait a while longer before things get better. I feel like we are almost close to a solid squad after the next 2 windows. You know what we need already, but united need to do with the midfield what city did to their defence. But in the mean time, Ole does need to do better. Even with the limited players he has. Change the style of play. Whatever he was doing at the start, it worked. Even if we concede goals. The attacking part is what needs fixing. Where the focus needs to be.
Personally I don't think Ole is the man to bring us to the very top. But I do believe he is the right man to make our next managers job much easier. Getting rid of all the deadwood, promoting youth, buying the right players. I'm willing to suffer a bit if the right plan is in place.
Hopefully we'll have a stable team by the time someone with an advanced understanding of tactics takes over.
Hopefully we'll have a stable team by the time someone with an advanced understanding of tactics takes over.
And in the process make the club less money... those dastardless murcans !
No, we've made mental decisions on an attempted quick fix top manager. Jose and LVG were never going to work here in the long run, neither will do things the way many fans and people at the club expect.
I personally think Mourinho worked out fine (much better than 12 months of OGS) until he and the club clearly had different ideas on the future of Manchester United, 2 trophies and then a 2nd place finish. Then the club decided that "no, we don't agree with want you want to do" and that's fine, but they should've already fecking known exactly what Mourinho wanted to do before they hired him.
Now that doesn't mean you forget about top managers and take a massive gamble on an old player, it simply means that next time, do your fecking due diligence and identify a top proven manager that fits the club and the clubs idea of the players and tactics it wants to see on the pitch.
Cleaning out good players like Lukaku is fine, if you can be certain that his replacement is top drawer, but the truth is, Ole alienated Lukaku and didn't replace him, leaving us short and hanging around 10th in the league. There's just one example. Why do you blindy trust Ole? Do you really think Daniel James and AWB* are 2 players to take us back to the very top or are you being a Liverpool fan ca. 2007?
* I like them both, really likeable lads they are but cream of the crop? we're a long long way from that. James isn't great against a packed defence and AWB offers next to nothing in an attacking sense right now. Thing is, lot's of fans would prefer a likeable AWB or James any day over Paul Pogba or Lukaku even if the latter are better players.
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When the fun stops. Stop
Suffer..... well two more years and those muppets down the East Lancs road could be on 21 titles. The season after next we need to be challenging and OGS is nor the man their is no inherent style part from ...... pace without the hale! This together with Demi-god Woody & our owners the Adams Family could mean we are like Tampa Bay. We need a admin clear out never mind dome of the players.
- "you’re doing football support wrong"
No point reading past that. Someone needs to get off their high horse.
No point reading past that. Someone needs to get off their high horse.
You need to find a buyer to sell a player first. For all the shite Woodward deserves, selling Lukaku for that amount was a pretty good business.
How is it that Ole is praised for the players we signed (Maguire, AWB, James), yet completely absolved of the fault of players we didn't sign (CM,CF,RW) ?
If you are blaming Woodward for bringing in half the replacements you should then praise him for bringing the other half or it is only valid for Ole?
Who are the names that Woodward didn't bring and is at fault this Summer ? Sancho?
You can blame Woodward for vetoing Maguire only to buy him at premium price(once again), but as you said he doesn't identify targets. Of all players in the world we couldn't find 2-3 that would cover the CM/CF positions at least?
I don’t really take people very seriously when the most intelligent counter argument they can come up with is that my comment is shit.
Nice read. Thankfully i stopped reading before i ended up in the comments. It's friday soon, i want to start that with something positive!
Ole is the man this season and the next. If he still delivers below par, then we can go for a replacement. Not a second before. I am sick and tired of this moronic replacement of managers before they even got a chance to start.
Ole is the man this season and the next. If he still delivers below par, then we can go for a replacement. Not a second before. I am sick and tired of this moronic replacement of managers before they even got a chance to start.
You make a great point. But by now you should realise that logical points don’t apply to Ole in crowd. And you’ll never get a logical answer.
The poll is corrently 52% Sack yet 2 day’s ago I read someone say “only a minority on here want him sacked”
Reason why SAF was given time: he broke the Old Firm stranglehold in Scotland and won a European trophy with Aberdeen.
Reason why Ole should be given time? He used to play for us, smiles a lot, and was appointed by a guy that even 'Ole in' advocates agree is incompetent when it comes to making footballing decisions.
Do you see why the comparison is foolish?
You should learn to read, the entire post explained why it was shit. The guy above this post can read it seems.
If I'd just posted, "this is shit", you'd have a point.
It was a good movement from the board to appoint him. Even if we are shite, hardly the matchgoing fans will turn against him. If it was Moyes however...
I don’t bother reading past ‘this is shit’ just like I wouldn’t be listening beyond ‘this is shit’ if you said it to my face! But it’s easy to be insulting. behind a keyboard
Look hard man
, I wrote "not this shit again", I didn't say this is shit.Now if you'd get into a scrap with anyone who said that to you, you need counselling.
Ole and Fergie have zero in common to draw comparisons like that. Not to mention we're living in an era that is quite different to when Fergie took over.
Hence the "not this shit again", it's a bizarre argument and I don't understand why it applies to Solksjaer and not Moyes, or if we'd given the job to Gordon Hill, would it apply there too?
Is it also reasonable to suggest he wasted the £130m on a limited fullback and a CB with many flaws when there was better alternatives that could've been signed for considerably less?
Is it also reasonable to suggest his narrow minded approach in the transfer market cost us a competent midfield due to attempting to change the culture in the team?
No, because he got rid of unlikeable players and signed likeable ones. Fact.
Look hard man
Now if you'd get into a scrap with anyone who said that to you, you need counselling.
The continuous comparison to Ferguson is honestly an insult to the big man. I doubt if it'll be used for any upcoming manager ?