Sir... your tire is flat
Who cares, the car's rotten and unless they change their aircon, the audio, the paint, the tint we're not going anywhere.
Changing the flat tire won't guarantee you gonna win the race.
Solskjær sack watch | 2019/20 edition
- Thread starter soapythecat
- Start date
Who cares, the car's rotten and unless they change their aircon, the audio, the paint, the tint we're not going anywhere.
Changing the flat tire won't guarantee you gonna win the race.
He can laugh it off and play it cool all he wants, the board wont let this continue for much longer.
Think he needs at least 3 points out of the next 2 games.
Think he needs at least 3 points out of the next 2 games.
If he’s still in the job after that game, I’ll be fecking astonished!
Honestly, this is how I feel as well. We can blame all we want about the board and the CEO, but they are here as long as they want to be here; it's not like they are going to sack themselves or sell the club just because we are not doing well on the pitch. That does not absolve managers of their responsibilities, however. Ole was never the solution to any of our problems, but he is fast becoming one of our most serious problems. Sacking him is tautological.
There's no question the task at hand was huge before Ole even arrived and Woodward has taken the bulk of the blame with Mourinho also culpable.
But Ole's strategy in the summer window was wrong IMO. We had 6 CBs on our books and there was no need for him to buy Maguire ahead of a midfielder. And then he let Smalling go which compounded the decision to buy Maguire further. All I'm saying is the £130m spent on AWB and Maguire was spent very badly considering such a sum could've been spent in a much more efficient way where we should've, not only improved the midfield, but also the defence. I'm confident a different manager would've had the foresight to improve the midfield, attack and defense with such financial backing.
And I was quite vocal about us spending the entire budget on the midfield and attack before we even made a signing in the summer because I saw this coming. I saw this coming because it's been 6 years now that we've been struggling to open up teams who sit deep. We've had defensive records in that time that are among the best in the League but our attack and midfield has been blunt with a lack of creativity and class in short supply.
I also think the longterm approach Ole is trying to implement from a cultural perspective is wrong and will cost the club dearly in the future, and it already has with the overpriced AWB and Maguire. Next is gonna be Maddison from Leicester for around £80m and possibly Chilwell who will probably cost more than AWB. Declan rice is another who it seems will be targeted for a ridiculous sum for cultural reasons. Such a strategy isn't just foolish but down-right stupid IMO and is a confirmation that he's the wrong man for this huge task and we need to bring someone in who has the vision and talent to close the gap on the likes of City and Liverpool.
I definitely agree with what you are saying about Ole not feeling the heat whilst other premier league managers looked in more danger of the sack than him, however now Pochettino, Emery & Flores have gone there is definitely much more focus on his managerial performance, also thought you made a very valid point about the players seemingly being given an easy ride behind the scenes, look we could both be completely wrong on that but that De Gea interview after the Newcastle game was very telling in my opinion.
Personally I have always been of the view that Ole should not have been appointed on a permanent basis, feels like the board had absolutely no thought on what happens if we go through a rough patch, they just decided to jump in feet first and if the results suddenly change then we will just carry on regardless as he's a Utd legend and no one will want to say anything negative about Ole.
I don't think it matters what happens in the two games this week because think I have seen enough to suggest he hasn't got the coaching ability to sort this mess out, yes I can understand people who say what if he brought in some more experienced coaches to work alongside him but I just can't see him wanting to change the people around him even if it is for the good of the club.
This will sound harsh but I would not give him any more money in the January transfer window if we are planning on making the change next summer, we either look to secure Pochettino for next season now and appoint another interim (don't make permanent again) or just go and get him now even if it involves negotiating with the nightmare that is Daniel Levy.
We definitely needed to have this rebuild and get rid of the bad influences around the club, however it should have been carried out by a more experienced manager because he would have demanded that replacements were brought in before any were allowed to leave.
The three signings that we made last summer were all good but can't help feeling that they would improve under a manager who can actually coach players, think they have got caught up in the shit that is around them on the pitch and their form is suffering as a result.
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You are wrong about spending the entire budget on midfield and attack. We needed a RB because Young is terrible and was costing us points. We needed a CB also (albeit to partner Smalling not replace him) I have no issue with those signings. They are good players who strengthen us. Whether they are signed in the correct order is one thing but our end goal is to build a strong squad and these players will be a part of that going forward regardless of who the manager is.
We were never going to fix the squad in one window with a net spend of 80 million either. Stop pretending this was possible. With this type of budget we need to get each signing right. Maguire gives us much needed experience at CB. AWB shores up right back for 10 years and James looks like the bargain of the decade.
We will also need to get the midfield and striker signings right because there clearly won't be unlimited funds anymore. LVG and Mourinho wasted a billion pounds and all that was usable from it was Pogba and Martial. I don't think Ed and the Glazers want to go down that road again. So unfortunately we will have to wait until Ole and the board identify players that they are both 100% certain about before we see money being spent.
It will take longer than we would like and it will annoy a lot of people, myself included but that's what I believe is happening. Peter Schmeichel said the other day that he knows from speaking to him that Ole wanted at least 2 more players this summer but his hands were essentially tied.
It's also why I don't believe Ole's job is in any danger at all because Ed knows he went into the season with a squad that wasn't going to succeed. I believe he was fine with it. He doesn't want to waste money trying to chase quick fixes and he saw what Liverpool did over the course of 4 seasons by patiently building. I think they'd rather sign three 21 year old with big futures ahead of them and finish 8th this season than sign three 29 years olds and finish 4th knowing they will need replace those players in 2/3 years. And I think they believe the young players coming through such as Tuanzebe, Greenwood, Williams and Garner will add significant strength to the squad as they mature and therefore will try to avoid spending much on experienced players for the sake of squad depth.
Personally I've always preferred this type of approach so it's easier for me to get on board with it. I've been around long enough to know that a couple of difficult seasons won't kill me and I'm enjoying watching the young players develop. For people who like lots of big money signings and instant results I can definitely understand why this is such a painful time. I'm just not sure how sticking it to Ole is going to help. He inherited a crap squad and a board who will only drip feed him the funds to fix it.
There is no winning when you back on the broken horse. That's what Ole is doing and ultimately be his downfall. He backed this season on martial who hasn't started 10 games together in past 4 years.
He's underestimated the league and have planned it poorly and hence we're at this spot. Again there is no one to advice him thanks to Woodward and his no dof policy. I want Ole to succeed and haven't changed my vote yet but these decisions doesn't bode with me well. Lose against spurs and I'll vote him out.
He's underestimated the league and have planned it poorly and hence we're at this spot. Again there is no one to advice him thanks to Woodward and his no dof policy. I want Ole to succeed and haven't changed my vote yet but these decisions doesn't bode with me well. Lose against spurs and I'll vote him out.
Spending most of the budget on Maguire and Wan Bissaka was madness, and neither player is close to being the best in their positions is a fact. And our RB has cost us points this season and is limited in attack. And for a fullback in the modern game that is quite frankly not good enough for £50m Both signings were a waste of money because better players were available for less IMO. You just have to have a basic knowledge of the European game to see that. We also had Ethan Laird coming through and with the rebuild looking like it would take at least 2 seasons, we could afford to give him time to develop.
Nobody said the squad was gonna be fixed in one window to challenge Liverpool or City. But we could've challenged for a top 4 spot which was a real possibility. But spending £130m on a limited fullback and a CB who isn't close to being among the best was a daft move and anyone with knowledge of the European game could predict that when looking at the state of the midfield.
Ole wanted Longstaff and Rice if reports and rumours around Carrington are to be believed. The issue was the board weren't prepared to sanction another £110m plus on two players that are unproven and most would side with the board in this case. The criteria Ole had was he was looking for the 'right' players which meant he couldn't look past the likes of Longstaff and Rice due to the cultural remit he had set which is a very silly way to plan at a football club that has vast resources. That's why I say he had a tunnel visioned approached and no way is such a approach viable in the longrun for players that are a long way off being the best in their positions.
I actually don't like big money signings unless they're exceptional at the highest level or have the potential to reach said level. Signing players like Maguire and AWB for exorbitant sums is the definition of what I don't like due them not being in either categorie IMO. What I'm impressed with is seeing clubs work smart in the transfer window and there's many examples that I can give you in that regard.
And a £80m net spend can get you very far if a club operates in a smart way. For some reason there's many like yourself on here who don't think so, but you're completely wrong.
There's a lot of crap in here to be totally honest. You seem to think it's football manager or something.
This again. You need to learn to separate past achievements with current performance, learn how to separate Ole the player and Ole the manager.Someone can be a legendary player but a shite manager and there's no shame in that. You get criticized based on your current role.
Kyle "Limited Fullback" Walker was signed for £50m two years ago and is the first choice right fullback for one of the best attacking teams in Europe. Right fullback is not the problem.
The last two seasons shows that £80m probably gets you one PL level center half with potential.
In other words you're stumped Steve and your blind support for Ole has been exposed..
But that is the key issue here. I agree that 80 million can get you far if you have proper scouting network and can afford to buy young and promising and/or squad players, but that was not our case.
If we wanted to properly strengthen the first XI right away, we needed about 4-5 signing that walked straight into the first XI. The two most pressing issues were fullback (both of them really) and a winger and we got that. Then #10, MF, CB and CF in order of importance imo
Yes in hindsight it would clearly be a much better choice to have strengthened in midfield instead of buying Maguire, but a new CB was needed as well. Its a reason Jose wanted him and lost the plot completely when Woody did not hand over the money. Ole is not blameless here, but it was pretty clear for everyone to see that we needed at least one more quality signing, if not two if we were going to compete
Kyle Walker plays for a team that has easily the best squad in the league and has done for a number of years now. They would win the league with a makeshift RB nevermind Kyle Walker.
Watching other European leagues shows that your second point is null and void.
Yeah it's just a shame that our board do not see the sense in that strategy at all,Woody (Toy Story) just isn't willing to relinquish control of transfers for the good of the club.
That's more or less the point. AWB limited attacking talent isn't the problem and neither is his price tag.
Does United play in other European leagues or the PL league? I'm confused.
Your first point would only be valid if we had the potential to enjoy the strength and depth that City have had for the last few years under Sheikh Mansour.
United doesn't play in other European leagues but it would be nice to compete in the Champions League again. Or are we gonna just concentrate on domestic competitions in your opinion?
I agree with alot of what you say and your post is alot more balanced which is good to see.
I agree a CB was needed, but like I said in the summer, I would've preferred the midfield to be prioritised ahead of the defence and I still stick to that belief.
That's a completely irrelevant point. We are talking about the market value for a similar player (who was older mind you). I'm not even a huge fan of AWB but his fee was fine and there are other positions in more dire straights.
That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It's a small sample size but look at transfer fees for top-level CBs in the PL in the last couple of windows. Laporte went for £60m two season ago. VVD for £75m a season and a half ago. Maguire (who was also wanted by City and most likely drove the price higher) going for £80m is not crazy.
United is a worldwide club in the richest league in the world. This is market they operate in. Maybe in Football Manager or FIFA are teams quoted the same prices across the board, but I doubt this is they way football transfers work.
There was other positions that were in dire need of improvement over signing a RB for a ridiculous fee, I agree with that, which is my argument to begin with.
Maguire isn't even in the same league as VVD, it's actually pitiful that we spent more on a much inferior CB and that to me is the definition of crazy.
Even in Football Manager I wouldn't be this naive to get taken to the cleaners by Leicester and Palace.
The AWB fee wasn't ridiculous based on precedent. It doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating it.
Very few people thought VVD would be this good. I can post a link to the thread on here after he was signed. An overwhelming majority of posters thought he wasn't worth it.
Not even worth discussing if we are using hindsight as a measuring stick.
The next 2 games will decide if OGS is still in charge, if we lose both of them and get embarassed then I dont see what other option the club have other than to make a change. This slump has been going for 9 months now, how much longer do we allow it to continue before its too late?
If you read my post properly you will see that I've agreed that people are entitled to critique and discuss his viability as a long term United manager, what I've pointed out in the part you highlighted is that if you share the same affinity for the club and legends you don't make a mockery of them on a forum full of United 'fans.'
Someone can be a legendary player but a shite manager and there's no shame in that. You get criticized based on your current role.
Not hard to understand really.
Ole the player and man deserves some feckin' respect even if he isn't the long term manager for us.
The AWB fee was ridiculous because there was better fullbacks at numerous different European clubs that were better and would've cost considerably less.
People not rating VVD isn't relevant because with hindsight we can see what the benchmark for a top CB is now. And in Maguires case I do like him but his performances for Leicester didn't justify spending a world record sum, when he had a worse season than Johnny Evans.
Off course it's on ole. Any manager worth their salt would have analized the strenght of the team, the task at hand, and everything adequately, including contigency. If he's going into the job after 5 mths as caretaker and cant see that ed gives him a race car with no engine and a flat tire it's up to him to say feck you ed, I'm not being your fall guy here.
If he doesnt know then he's not qualified for the job. If he knows and he accepts the job then he's a yes man.
So yes. It's partly on ole.
I'm still greatly annoyed with him making the stupid substitution against Sheffield United that cost us a 4-2 or even 5-2 win. That is where the game was heading until he killed all our momentum. Isn't the opposition supposed to do that? 
Isnt life simple when its broken down into black and white by internet football experts.
It is that simple. You're either good enough or you dont. The league table is pretty much fixed. If you're 10th you can argue about injury, luck, voodoo, conspiracy, you name it but you're still 10th.
Ole isnt good enough. Dont need an expert come to that decision.
Do you think anyone of our midfielders is any better than Fellaini? He sold Fellaini because he was hated by many fans and he wanted to score points with the fans early y getting rid of the easiest target. But Fellaini is miles better than Lingrad, Fred, Perrera and the the 75 years old Matic.
What if we'd not conceded late against Sheffield and been 5th. Would he be good enough then?
What if we'd had Martial and Pogba available for the whole season and been 6 points better off than we are, or even more. Would he be good enough then?
What if he hadn't inherited a squad bloated with players not contributing, or not wanting to be here, all on insane salaries that were bleeding the club dry. Would he be good enough then?
There are countless other what ifs. The fact that you think its so simple just reflects poorly on you. You are looking at short term results over the longer term benefit of the club.
Good post.
I do agree with that - my issue is people have wanted Ole out from day 1.
If we keep the same style/philosophy I agree.
A DOF is vital
Truth. I'm genuinely amazed by the lack of patience from United supporters these days.
I think Fellaini is an emergency striker. As a midfielder he offers feck all.
I think we have to start seeing something, anything to make the patience warranted. If we were seeing signs of progress, there would be more patience, but we're not, we're drifting along looking hopeless. How long do you remain patient in that scenario? When does patience just turn into blindness?
What long term benefit does ole reigns brings?
Do enlighten us.
What's the best case scenario here? What's his endgame in 3 years? Does his method is too complicated he need 3 years before we're playing tiki taka combined with total football? Does he needs a full xi before we can play with any resemblance of tactics? So we're just gonna blindly support him because he says he needs 3 years and another 500m before he can be judged?
If the difference between good enough and not good enough is a late goal away against sheffield united than i guess we're not good enough.
It's amazing what difference a great set of tires can make to a shitty car. You won't win the race but at least you'll finish it.
100 % It also doesnt help Ole that Poch is available at a time where things are so tenuous.
Thank god he wasn’t backed with Rice and Longstaff, I’m not sure I could withstand so much culture in one team.
How much of a mug will Ed look like when this gets the boot?