For me its just easier and quicker way of saying those that want rid of Ole.
Nothing much else to it really.
"We need to put a run together" - Our form vs Rivals
- Thread starter Keefy18
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Nothing much else to it really.
We obviously have a bit of momentum, but we need to do more than win 2 big matches which while great in isolation, doesnt change the picture for our season.
They did have stronger squads, and signed a lot of established stars on huge wages, like Zlatan, Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, Mkhitaryan, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Di Maria, Matic.
Solskjær is in the start of a rebuild, only bought 3 first team players, sold 6. Has a very thin squad, is playing the youngest XI in the league, and has struggled with lots of injuries on key players. With a bit of perspective, its actually looking really promising.
Normally I would agree, but the level of abuse Ole has received for months on end is beyond acceptable. He's been labelled some pretty incredible names in recent months from deluded, a PE teacher, out of depth and clueless and that's the milder stuff.
He was only made permanent manager in March, has had a single transfer window for a club that has been mismanaged for approx a decade.
Regardless of the name on the managers door we should all want the club to succeed and calling for the managers head instantly is hardly worthy of a person being called a supporter.
We've rivals that give Ole less stick than our own lot.
Rightly or wrongly a lot don't look past their own club and don't care what other sides are doing (or not doing)
What gets me is almost everyone said at the start of the season we wouldn't finish top 4 so if that's the case then why call for the managers head after every game we drop points in? You're getting what you expected at the start of the season?
Supporting a club means being honest & wasting the best for it. Not blind faith if you feel like it’s not the best direction for the club .
And of course rival fans give him less stick- they would love him to stay forever given our fan base’s dwindling ambition, expectations & standards
That's not true though is it. Jose got 6th his first season and the only reason we sacked him was because he lost the plot completely. If he had kept his head he would still be here
LvG got sacked because he did worse in his second season than he did in his first and he did loads of bad transfers. By the end of the second season the players had also had enough of his draconian coaching style .
Link
If he had done better in the market and gotten 5th then 4th he might have kept his job, but as the article states. He was getting pretty unpopular with the squad
Not everyone who doubts whether he’s good enough is running around insulting him and in spite of the fact that a bunch of people keep repeating this idea I’ve seen extraordinarily few posts wanting anything other than success.
The last few results have understandably got people rather giddy but they’re spamming the forum with strawman arguments attempting to be all condescending and top-reddish by shouting down things that most people aren’t actually saying.
I think he basically got himself fired.
I mean he pretty much went rogue and disparaged the club, its players and the board. Our form nose dived and there are other countless examples with regards squad rebuild was terrible, inflated our wage bill by double and supported the renewal of average players staying at the club like Fellaini.
He was afforded two and a half seasons, with a half billion towards a squad rebuild and we were clearly getting worse.
There are clear signs here of a long term vision, improvement in team performances and individuals on the pitch as well with Ole and besides he's had a single transfer window where we've basically balanced the books.
He deserves time and investment as well in players he deems necessary for his team.
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True, and I’m personally in favor of hiring an elite manager, so I’m definitely not “Ole In.” However, I think this points to the reality that we can let it play out. If Ole continues to climb the table, perhaps he is growing into his role along with his young roster. If he maintains his current position or goes down the table (as you rightly pointed out is a possibility), then there should be no question what needs to happen. Bottom line, while I personally would prefer to bring in a top class manager now, Ole is going to get his chance to prove himself one way or the other.
We also played Phil Jones in one of those games. I know it was only for 45 minutes, but that was long enough for him to take the points away from us.
That's fair enough, not everyone is. It's not absolute as you suggest.
As @Handré1990 stated I suppose our thinking has gone very binary. It's either or and not somewhere in the middle.
I guess when I look around on most forums this calendar year, its extremely negative and full of doom merchants which is something I really don't see.
How is my argument "straw man"?
I mean it works the opposite way as well, when we had the 2 draws with SU & Villa recently the place was rampant with negativity and they too arguably used strawman arguments to enforce their opinions.
They ignored the fact we were missing 2 important players in CM, Our CM gets over ran and we concede 5 goals in 2 games but the blame went solely to Ole.
The biggest strawman I’ve seen over and over is this weird idea that all the people who don’t think he’s the long term answer are gutted at the wins against Spurs and City.
Not sure many even watching our games, like they just go to livescore and check stats/results.
All good beating the my standards are so high drum, but you be mental to want to change a manager at this stage because you seem to think another manager can do a much better job with what we have at our disposal.
The main reason it's insane wanting a change, especially when you see what we are trying to do at the moment, is the fact we just spent over 100mil on 3 players that might not be the new manager liking. Its be going backwards again and basically starting another rebuild as they might want to bring in other players for other areas so we be in that vicious circle we havent been able to get out of since fergie retired.
It's a rebuild we need and imo Ole is doing a good job, and has got some cracking results along the way. If it becomes a time were it ain't working and he might have to go in a year time then fair enough but if anything he will leave the squad sitting in good nick for whomever comes in, with a good mix of hungry players who want to play for us and more importantly young players.
Personally cant see him going anywhere, the players are clearly playing for him and hes built a rapport with them.
So basically I'm Ole at the wheel, my standards are so low
Yes, mine too. I mean, my standard. It's low and I am all ' Ole In' !
I've not said that personally.
But I have seen posters on here state the wins aren't anything to rave about cause its "just counter attacking football" and to use an exact quote I saw last night, "nothing revolutionary".
Mafia is a very loaded word though, isn’t it? It shows a clear us v them mentality, which we’ve had enough of in my opinion in these past six years.
@Wumminator said it so well yesterday in response to someone asking for a thread called ‘Ole out brigade is cancelled’:
Like, I’ve had my vote on sack for a couple of months now, yet have constantly felt the need to call people out on their frankly toxic behaviour in calling those in disagreement stupid, clueless or blind, and all sorts of insults being hurled at our manager. A manager who won everything here as a player, an all time Fergie favourite, and the scorer of the match winning goal in one of our three European Cup wins. It’s gone way too far. It also coincided with a loosening of the newbie system, which I’d love to be able to attribute more blame to, if it wasn’t for the fact that some of the worst culprits are long time members.
Rant over, and this isn’t aimed particularly at you, I just wanted to underline that your simplification of the «two camps» is a direct contribution to this discourse, intentionally or not.
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I agree. I think it’s very few who are gutted about us winning regardless of who’s in charge.
Ehm, no they didn’t?
In all honesty I didn't perceive it that way but point taken
Fully agree its gone back and forth with each manager.
Personally didn't see Moyes as suitable and wanted rid I rid about January of that season. He didn't show any signs of a plan at all, the football was terrible, results worse.
LVG I had more time for, explained his long term goals over the 3 year contract. Invested in youth, gave us Martial and Rashford. I was all for him seeing out the 3rd season and then moving to Poch, that would of been my choice but football doesn't work like that obviously.
Jose never liked him and felt he was a spent force by the time he arrived at OT.
Ole, fully support like I did with LVG.
I've done my best to support all but I get what you mean I've argued for and against over the last 6 years.
Rant or not, it has been very toxic here when results are bad, and even when they are good. Since most of us want the same; success for United, it would be nice to stop being shit with each other regardless of Ole in/out stance.
How old are you?
Whats that got to do with what I said? At all?
Oh and in answer to your question- absolutely None of your business
Thought so. You have this incredibly whiney sense of entitlement. Two wins on the bounce against City and Spurs and you’re still here, complaining, like the brat who isn’t getting his way.
Yawn. After 2 wins he’s suddenly the best thing ever- how predictable & short sighted.
Let’s forget the rest of the season then eh
The rest of the season?
- We've beaten Chelsea twice - Once was to knock them out of the cup.
- We're one of only two teams to beat Leicester - Everyone had us dead to rights to be beaten badly by Leicester.
- Everyone had us dead to rights to lose to Wolves, we didn't. We actually outplayed them for the majority and but for some penalty misses should of won.
- We're the only team to knock points off Liverpool.
- Qualified from the Europa league group with ease, albeit in ugly fashion with a bunch of kids.
- Rashford is one of the leagues best performing forwards and only Abraham & Vardy have scored more goals, but Only Vardy has been involved in more goals (assists included).
- AWB is arguably the best performing right back in the league, defensively he definitely is. If he can add a final ball to his game he'll be the best.
- McTominay is improving week after week and building an understanding with Fred, to finally give us a functional centre midfield pairing.
- We've had countless great performances from the season opener vs Chelsea, Wolves (bar about 15 mins). Palace we may have lost but we smashed them with 27 shots. We bettered Liverpool for the majority of the game. Norwich we smashed! Partizan was another great game, Brighton another and of course this weeks 2 games.
- He's bought wisely in his 3 players
- He ousted players with s*t attitudes in Lukaku and Sanchez and he is phasing out Young and Jones.
- We are still in the league cup
- We are still very much in with a shout of top 4
Seriously what is wrong with you that you have to be posting such morbidly depressing sentiments? I'd suggest you are trolling personally cause no one can possibly suggest our season is anywhere near as bad as you are attempting to convey it is.
Posters are asking you your age because the tone of your comments is quite immature and loaded with an overwhelming sense of self entitlement as posted to you just above.
All of your points cant mask we’re 5 points off top 4 & 14 behind even Leicester (amazing where you can be with a decent manager eh)
We played terrible against Villa and it was also a dire performance against Southampton. The only game where on the premise of the play we deserved a stronger result was Wolves. So in a fantasy scenario we would be 2 points off Chelsea.
The reality is in 16 games we've won 6 lost 4 and drawn 6 that's a disgraceful record for the stature of this club. We deserve where we are currently, Ole said himself the table doesn't lie so we can't now chose to discredit it due to hypothesis.
The reality is in 16 games we've won 6 lost 4 and drawn 6 that's a disgraceful record for the stature of this club. We deserve where we are currently, Ole said himself the table doesn't lie so we can't now chose to discredit it due to hypothesis.
Yet you seem to think Jose was wrongly sacked and he was 11 points off top 4 when getting the bullet.
Some mighty fine logic you're posting on here.
I never said Jose was wrongly sacked- it became untenable. I’m saying you need to use the same logic & standards with Ole
Ole is perm manager since March, IF....And its a big if... and when Ole is sat 11pts from top 4 after 2 full seasons and half way through his 3rd after spending a half billion, doubling the wage bill, turned on the squad and board and mocking the supporters...
Then your point is valid.
You are not using the same logic & standards currently.
Cheer up christ almighty.
They were not. If you say that then plenty of teams were better teams when SAF had us but we scored and then held the score. We out scored those 2 teams and should never have conceded the last goals. And then we yell at the lads in the training, they become more focused, and we don’t even concede the first goals... that’s how it works. Those 2 brain farts goals conceded have slowed us down. Hopefully now the message went through and confidence is high.
I have never belonged to a forum with such a low level of debate before.
As many others have said, it really is now about putting a run of wins in against teams United should be beating, and the big tests are tactics and attitude to break down lower positioned clubs, as well as reintegrating Pogba into a team which works harder without him.
There is no manipulation. It’s just pure numbers on a number of games. And we should have won more but why not. So you are wrong because there is no manipulation of the stats, they are shown as they are, with wins, draws and losses for the last x games.
The manipulation is the selection of a small number of games. Love to have seen form guide of last 6 a few weeks ago..but I wouldn’t have posted that as it’s too shall a number to draw conclusions from
There is no manipulation again. He’s showing progress and we were slowed down by some brain farts of the players when conceding after having done the hardest, which was to catch up and score more. Anyway... you can use 12 games in all competitions, progress is here. So again, no manipulation.
In fairness I don’t like stats but at least they have a bit of substance compared to miserable Ole haters who just want him sacked with no real plan of the way forward after that.
I’ve backed Ole since the big run we went on initially, it was more than a bounce, what we’ve seen glimpses of in the last few games is testament to that imo.
League position means nothing in the grand scheme of things when you consider just how far we’ve fallen and the mess we are in. It’s the biggest rebuild in our lifetime and it’s about getting the basics right first, the platform to build your the finished article.
What we have been doing is throwing money at it with no real structure, with each Manager under huge pressure to make it work instantly before fans want them replaced. It’s forced a scatter gun approach which has culminated in the squad you see before you and poor old Ole working miracles to beat the bigger teams whilst struggling for the technical quality to break down the defensive ‘lesser’ sides.
What were you expecting from this starting 11?? The title? Top four?
NO manager in this league gets either of those things with this squad with just one transfer window under their belt. Simple
This. I want to see can we dominate and win against weaker teams where sitting back and playing on quick counters is not an option. If we win this 4 games then we can talk about progress.
Your right it was poorer the previous 12 games and since you've raised it I have no issue in saying it was.
I've pointed out that from the first ball kicked vs Chelsea right up to yesterday's fantastic win we've already had plenty to be positive about for the long term.
But someone just made a point about those that want rid of Ole.
If you were in a position to sack Ole tomorrow you likely would cause clearly you see him as inept which is mind boggling but I'll continue.
What's your master plan? Who gets the job?
Do you realize the money it costs to sack him and then hire another manager? If you are in favor of Poch being the next MUFC Manager there is a clause in his contract that means we'd have to pay Spurs €12m. Then we have to pay Poch his salary.
That's before we get into having to financially back Poch with transfers.
Then we've to factor in the players mental state, by that I mean that the players have spoken publicly in favor of Ole over and over in recent times, from Rashford to McTominay, Young and Mata. They clearly like Ole and support him and want him as manager.
Further more, a few players have actually spoken out against the board and their handling of the club in recent years and requesting some stability and keeping Ole.
What does that do for player confidence?
Then we are again changing our playing style yet again to suit another managers demands.
Sacking Ole right now would be suicidal. But you don't want to acknowledge this at all I bet and will fire back some sarcastic response probably.