Brandon Williams is better than Luke Shaw

[Pexbo]

Why not? He makes forward runs every game.

Shaw's attacking runs have regressed massively over the last 2 seasons. He used to overlap without the ball or carry the ball inside, both of which used to break the defensive lines and carry a player or two out of position. Shaw's forward runs now almost never get in behind the defence. They almost exclusively consist of carrying the ball from his own third, through the middle third and barely into the opposition third until he's closed down and he simply turns and passes it backwards.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Different circumstances against a different team. Do you think Shaw would have made those attacking runs yesterday? I don’t think he would. It adds another attacking dimension against packed defences .

Do you think Shaw would of been given the same amount of space Williams was afforded yesterday? I'm not knocking Williams because he had a very good game but the first half he was MOTM because of the space he was given and he used it well. The second half Williams wasn't anywhere near as influencial because Burnley closed him down.

 

[El Zoido]

Shaw doesn’t make those runs in behind. It’s not about space, he just doesn’t make those kinds of runs often enough. Also whenever he does get in to those positions, his delivery isn’t as good as Williams.

 

[Will Singh]

He’s done brilliant so far and all round has the potential to be a starter, I don’t think it would be fair to chuck him in the 1st team and rely on him. He has to be introduced slow IMO and definitely will be a starter in a few years .

 

[Hawks2008]

Luke Shaw is average as it gets. The leg break was a blessing in disguise for him as if will always be an excuse for abject performances because he played 8 good United games before that..

 

[zenith]

Williams has the potential to be better than shaw but he's currently not. When we face better opponents with quality wingers in their ranks, I'd still trust shaw to get the job done over Williams.

 

[Gopher Brown]

I'm not entirely convinced he'll make it here. He seems to give the ball away a lot on the edge of our penalty area and cuts back a lot before crossing. We've had years of Ashley Young doing that.

 

[Irwin99]

Do you think Shaw would of been given the same amount of space Williams was afforded yesterday? I'm not knocking Williams because he had a very good game but the first half he was MOTM because of the space he was given and he used it well. The second half Williams wasn't anywhere near as influencial because Burnley closed him down.

He still did pretty well in the second half with running into space although his first half was better.

To reiterate, I’m not saying Williams is going to be our first choice left back for years to come or overhyping him. I’m saying a full back (or two) with real energy and passion to get forward does add so much more to the attack as opposed to a full back who more often than not either just hits a square pass back into an already congested midfield or doesn’t do an awful lot when he gets in a crossing position.

 

[devilish]

Shaw is a pretty low bar to compare to

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He still did pretty well in the second half with running into space although his first half was better.

To reiterate, I’m not saying Williams is going to be our first choice left back for years to come or overhyping him. I’m saying a full back (or two) with real energy and passion to get forward does add so much more to the attack as opposed to a full back who more often than not either just hits a square pass back into an already congested midfield or doesn’t do an awful lot when he gets in a crossing position.

Yeah I get what you mean. I do rate Shaw but I think he's the type of player who needs to have a run of games before he finds his form. A bit like Fred which is why I want to continue with Shaw and not throw Williams in at the deep end as many seem to want to do. Williams is a great prospect and competition between the 2 will obviously be good for the club. Williams will get his fair share of games and with time could make that number 1 spot his. Personally I don't think now is the time.

 

[Godfather]

Going forward he is. Defensively I think Shaw is still a tad better as William's positioning and awareness can be rather suspect still. Big talent though.

 

[red woppit]

Shaw's attacking runs have regressed massively over the last 2 seasons. He used to overlap without the ball or carry the ball inside, both of which used to break the defensive lines and carry a player or two out of position. Shaw's forward runs now almost never get in behind the defence. They almost exclusively consist of carrying the ball from his own third, through the middle third and barely into the opposition third until he's closed down and he simply turns and passes it backwards.

On occasion I've seen him get behind a defence, he set up Chong v Astana away for instance, but I agree that he doesn't get into those positions as much as he once did, perhaps it's a lack of confidence after his injury, or perhaps it was drilled into him by Mourinho that he should hold his position, I don't know, but hopefully Williams' emergence will push him into the player he once was. I think he's done ok since he's got back into the team, but capable of more.

 

[kettledrumhamster]

Creativity from full-back is so important nowadays, and AWB isn't a great creator on the right, so we need a really strong left-back who continues to overload our left wing and create options for Rashford running inside. Shaw is not that player, but Williams could be.

 

[MrSingh2002]

He has the potential to be.
Just needs to be braver in possession. Too often looks backwards at the moment but that can change.
Would be helped by a good midfield option always available inside which is not always there at the moment.

I agree with this. Needs to be braver and demonstrate an ability to dribble and take on players. If he can start doing that he'll be the best left back for sure.

He takes the easy option to pass backwards too often but for such a young guy that's almost a good sign that he's a team player. If he can be encouraged to attack more he could be a special player. He has time on his side of course.

 

[Random Task]

The leg break was a blessing in disguise for him as if will always be an excuse for abject performances because he played 8 good United games before that..

I've reread this post more times than I am prepared to admit, trying to find some hidden logic or reasoning behind it, but I have failed miserably.

I give up.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

I still think Shaw is better, but with the emergence of him and Greenwood, it would spur "lazy" players like Shaw and Martial to do even better to keep their place in the first 11. Can only be good for the squad.

 

[Will Singh]

He’s done brilliant so far and all round has the potential to be a starter, I don’t think it would be fair to chuck him in the 1st team and rely on him. He has to be introduced slow IMO and definitely will be a starter in a few years.

 

[Artorias]

Shaw is better at the moment. But Williams have a greater ceiling.

 

[Carl]

I'm not entirely convinced he'll make it here. He seems to give the ball away a lot on the edge of our penalty area and cuts back a lot before crossing. We've had years of Ashley Young doing that.

The best cross he put in yesterday was with his left foot.

 

[DVG7]

Said it In another thread, but I think for team dynamics, Williams and AWB should swap flanks

 

[Jericholyte2]

I think the key attribute over Shaw is the mentality to go after his opposing number. He’s not a shrieking violet who falls into his shell, he’s a player who wants to actively impact the game, and that makes a massive difference when compared to a player who doesn’t have that capacity.

 

[hobbers]

Most left backs in the league are better than Luke Shaw. Even the reserve ones.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I hope to never see Shaw play for United again. I hope Williams turns out to be the LB of the future, but the main thing is for Shaw to be gone. At times it seems like he doesn't care.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Hopefully Williams can kick on and develop to be a top player.

I remember watching Shaw play for Soton and he looked like he could've been a top class left back. It's disappointing how he's turned out.

 

[Aouer-United]

Williams is better than Shaw in term of overlapping runs, I mean we all saw how he'd make an overlapping to receive pass then make a quick pass for a cross/square or cut in? If we keep tempo higher, he'd adding more different dismission to our attack.

Meanwhile, Shaw would sit on balls and taking a breath while pretends to be looking for people to pass then pass backwards. Even though I think Shaw is better than Williams defensively but Shaw is playing it too safe in the attack.



Ole should have instructed James/Greenwood and Rashford to be near the far post to wait for crosses/square with Martial in middle if it comes off as loose ball/rebound

 

[khoazany]

Williams has a higher ceiling than Shaw. He's fantastic offensively and tenacious. Shaw is a more reliable option defensively at the moment but I would play Williams more since our main problem at the moment is unlocking teams that sit deep, we need offensive fullbacks. It's also a reason why I also want us to grow some balls and play Laird or Williams on the right on some games that we are expected to dominate most of possessions.

 

[Redplane]

Williams has a higher ceiling than Shaw. He's fantastic offensively and tenacious. Shaw is a more reliable option defensively at the moment but I would play Williams more since our main problem at the moment is unlocking teams that sit deep, we need offensive fullbacks. It's also a reason why I also want us to grow some balls and play Laird or Williams on the right on some games that we are expected to dominate most of possessions.

Is he though? Lately he seems to always be one step too slow and rely on potential fouls rather than the speed he s supposed to have.

 

[Yagami]

Shaw's better in the defensive phase.

Shaw's still better in the transition/build-up phase, though Williams is good there himself.

Williams is better in the final third, but he isn't that good there yet; Shaw's just really bad unfortunately. Potentially Williams could be really good, though.

Overall, Shaw's still a lot better, imo.

 

[Rajma]

Shaw is simply terrible, so yes Brandon is better by a default.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Shaw is awful going forward. He can't cross, can't assist, can't score. He has issues at defending (as spotted by Mourinho) he leaves too many spaces between him and his central defender. He is poor at positioning. He lost yards of paces since his injury, but yet he is our number one left back.

The fact that we think Williams can be better than him just proved how poor Shaw is.

Compare Shaw with Robertson or Chilwell...

 

[Member 113277]

This is how I see it. LB will be one of our strongest positions with the two of these lads competing for it.

Good balanced view. Shaw may not be the best LB in the EPL (which is possibly not surprising after the injury he sustained - I'm sure there's a mental payload, even if the leg recovered perfectly), but he's a steady, competent defender and when we had the Ole bounce last year and the midfield/attack was on fire, he was far better going forward.

I like the look of BW and think there is a lot of potential there, Ole seems to have a decent approach to developing youth, so the future is bright at LB.

 

[khoazany]

Shaw is awful going forward. He can't cross, can't assist, can't score. He has issues at defending (as spotted by Mourinho) he leaves too many spaces between him and his central defender. He is poor at positioning. He lost yards of paces since his injury, but yet he is our number one left back.

The fact that we think Williams can be better than him just proved how poor Shaw is.

Compare Shaw with Robertson or Chilwell...

I'd swap Shaw for Chilwell, defo yeah. However we have bigger concerns at the moment.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I'd swap Shaw for Chilwell, defo yeah. However we have bigger concerns at the moment.

We definitely have ‘bigger problems’ but Shaw as 1st choice LB remains an issue.

We’ve seen last summer that the Woodward/OgS axis find it difficult to get the clubs main targets over the line; if an LB [not necessarily Chillwell] is available we must get him when we can.

I personally think Williams is miles ahead of Shaw already cause he has a willingness in attack that no.23 does not so would be happy to see him given a long run in the team as he could save/time.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Williams is fearless and has a bit of edge about him as well. You need him and McTominay to add a bit of nastiness in a team of otherwise nice blokes.

 

[Bilbo]

Williams is in the same bracket in terms of potential as Greenwood is, but lets see him grow before putting any labels on him. As with Greenwood and most other young prospects when they start performing at this level, they hold the element of surprise that helps them flourish. Opponents will now start to analyse both of these players more and more and figure out their weaknesses and how to expose them, so we can expect a dip in performance from them both before too long, during which time the majority of the Cafe will pronounce that they are not good enough at this level. Seen it time and time again.

He is definitely exciting though. He has already reached the phase where I no longer hold any fears about seeing him in the starting line up against any opposition. Shaw gets a hard time on here, but between them both I think we have reduced the necessity of needing to look at that position as one to recruit for considerably.

 

[Buster15]

Shaw's attacking runs have regressed massively over the last 2 seasons. He used to overlap without the ball or carry the ball inside, both of which used to break the defensive lines and carry a player or two out of position. Shaw's forward runs now almost never get in behind the defence. They almost exclusively consist of carrying the ball from his own third, through the middle third and barely into the opposition third until he's closed down and he simply turns and passes it backwards.

While that is irritating, we do not know what he is told to do on the left hand side. It may well be not to loose possesion.
Nevertheless, I don't believe that he was progressed anything like as much as he should have.

 

[Buster15]

Williams is fearless and has a bit of edge about him as well. You need him and McTominay to add a bit of nastiness in a team of otherwise nice blokes.

Very good point.

 

[Brightonian]

At the moment I'd say we should be rotating them about 50/50. Shaw in the big games when we don't need so many offensive players on the pitch as the opponent leaves gaps for our forwards to exploit. Williams against the 'smaller' opponents who we've been struggling against because they sit deep and defend tight.

If Williams continues on this trajectory he'll be undisputed first choice in a season or two. He was very, very good yesterday. Hargreaves wasn't wrong when he described the performance as flawless.

 

[Brophs]

At the moment I'd say we should be rotating them about 50/50. Shaw in the big games when we don't need so many offensive players on the pitch as the opponent leaves gaps for our forwards to exploit. Williams against the 'smaller' opponents who we've been struggling against because they sit deep and defend tight.

If Williams continues on this trajectory he'll be undisputed first choice in a season or two. He was very, very good yesterday. Hargreaves wasn't wrong when he described the performance as flawless.

Get out of my head.

 

[Jonno]

Williams is a better player than Shaw, hands down.

Shaw whilst slower, less going forward and less exciting has much more experience and less naivety than a rookie like Williams will have at this stage of his career, and as such they should be rotated for the next 1-2 years whilst Williams learns how to consistently play PL football. His fitness levels won't quite be there for the longevity of a PL season. Ole currently has it spot on at the moment, 50/50 split in games.

LB - Williams/Shaw/Young/Dalot
RB - AWB/Young/Dalot

Not a bad squad for those two positions going forward if Dalot can get/stay fit.