You think Shaw has a different instruction to Williams? Shaw has generally played with the more defensively sound and weaker attacking AWB on the opposite side with Williams playing opposite Young so it would actually make more sense if it was Shaw who had more conservative instructions than Williams.
Brandon Williams is better than Luke Shaw
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
Whatever happens, one thing is sure, if our club wants to seriously improve, Luke Shaw cannot be our starting LB anymore. He's too average for that.
I was hopeful Shaw would kick on after last season, but he seems to have regressed. Physically, he just doesn't have it in him. We need full-backs who will make runs beyond the attackers to help create space and opportunities. He just can't do it.
Williams is like a breathe of fresh air in comparison.
Williams is like a breathe of fresh air in comparison.
Yeah, he's been with us long enough and he's never shown that he offers enough. Even in his best spells for us all he was really offering was good defending and pace. Wouldn't mind keeping him as a backup player but he's not the answer
Couldn't really care who is better between the two right now, Williams needs to progress and Young will leave due to age before Shaw due to injuries. We need a new left-back regardless of who is rated as the best between the 3.
Shaw always looks like he is playing within himself. He occasionally puts the afterburners on and looks like he could be a real threat but its once or twice a game at most. Just not enough. Maybe seeing Williams get more and more starts over him ignites a fire and he puts more in, which I doubt, or he will end up being totally phased out, either way works for me.
Williams' pace is very good too, so even in tight situations he can carry the ball easily. He did it few times against Burnley, they didn't cope with his pace so fouled him. Later ref was so awful that he gave yellow for Williams.
His composure on the ball is good, he picks the passes well rather than just hoof and hope like Young does. Against Burnley after the first cross, he grew in confidence and played more attacking game. He can offer a lot going by his U23 performances. Hopefully he can do that for first team.
His composure on the ball is good, he picks the passes well rather than just hoof and hope like Young does. Against Burnley after the first cross, he grew in confidence and played more attacking game. He can offer a lot going by his U23 performances. Hopefully he can do that for first team.
It almost seems like Shaw cannot push himself.
Seems to me that ther's always one or two squad players that are fashionable to bitch about at any one time, and Shaw is this month's object of disaffection.
Is Williams better than Shaw ??
Tell you what - put both of them on the ' For sale ' list in Januatry, both at £ 20 million, say, and see which one gets the most interest from other clubs.
I'd suggest that it'd be 20 to 1 that it'd be Shaw.
Is Williams better than Shaw ??
Tell you what - put both of them on the ' For sale ' list in Januatry, both at £ 20 million, say, and see which one gets the most interest from other clubs.
I'd suggest that it'd be 20 to 1 that it'd be Shaw.
Against top teams: Shaw is the better players given that we are allowed to concede possession and sit back.
Against most other teams in the league: We are the ones being "forced" or the ones that are aiming to control the game, thus having a fullback that can actually pass and cross makes Williams the better alternative.
Best allround? fullback at the club would be Laird imo.
Against most other teams in the league: We are the ones being "forced" or the ones that are aiming to control the game, thus having a fullback that can actually pass and cross makes Williams the better alternative.
Best allround? fullback at the club would be Laird imo.
Very fair point.
I’d definitely rather sell Shaw for that than Williams. But it was contextual - Williams is constantly learning and improving.
I understand the point you're stabbing at, but the difference is Williams is a frequent user of his left foot. Unlike Valencia with his left. So it's not like it was a one off fluke, he's used both feet well in every game he's played.
Attacking wise he is better than Shaw but defensively he still has a lot to learn
Im always reluctant to put too much faith in teenagers though as Ive seen too many impress initially but then fail to develop - I remember Cameron Borthwick-Jackson putting in several impressive performancces at left back a few years ago and now he's struggling to get a game in League One - but Williams is definitely worthy of some more first team game time
Agreed....Four years ago CBJ looked an oustanding prospect, perhaps the best prospect in the club.
Hopefully Williams won't fall away in the same way that CBJ did, but nothing's guaranteed at his age.
Shaw is average at best, bang average. Nothing to do with being flavour of the month. He doesn't get forward enough and every meaningful attack from the opposition comes down his side because he can't block a cross. He also pulls Maguire out of position because he has to cover for him when he's caught out up the field and can't get back.
Go to a game and watch him live, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. He's only at United to give us depth at this point, as soon as Williams is ready for regular first team football Shaw won't get a look in.
This, so much. People forget the excellent defensive displays he had last year against great players (which helped earn him POTY). Williams does not offer that, at least not yet. He's also a bit crazy and could cost us with a timely red. Love him as a prospect though, and should play the home games against most teams
Listen i just finished rewatching the game again and I cant stress how great a performance Williams had. he provided so much space given Rashford plays more like an inside forward. He won 2 fouls attacking the space consistently and also provided numerous overlaps. The greatest part about all this is that he was also quick to get back to defense. I think Ole needs to consider playing williams much more than he has this season. I enjoyed watching him take the initiative to do more than recycle possession in the final third.
Shaw is good defender but is extremely average going forward. He doesn't progressive things enough and isn't aggressive going forward. There are times when he could try and beat his man but would rather wait to recycle possession. He is also injury prone and it wouldn't surprise me if he is out early next year. If we have any plans of moving forward as a team we have to phase out Shaw over the next 12 months.
Shaw is good defender but is extremely average going forward. He doesn't progressive things enough and isn't aggressive going forward. There are times when he could try and beat his man but would rather wait to recycle possession. He is also injury prone and it wouldn't surprise me if he is out early next year. If we have any plans of moving forward as a team we have to phase out Shaw over the next 12 months.
CBJ never had the physique. Williams is already physical enough to aid in his progression. I think he is very ready against the bottom teams. He needs to feature more in games where we dominate since he is willing to take on his man consistently.
I don't remember this! CBJ was awful!
Williams seems good. It'd save us a headache of buying a new LB because Shaw isn't good enough.
After 5 games in which half of it were average? For me; big no.
Potential to be better is maybe there because of his attacking play but for now; no.
Potential to be better is maybe there because of his attacking play but for now; no.
Is he though? That’s the first game where he has shown any real attacking threat or nouse in the 1st team and he was afforded so much time and space to do so as well as for once a fullback receiving an early ball in to space instead of a hospital ball.
He was good that game, gassed around the 60th or took a break but Burnley allowed him to have the time and space to pick a good ball. Luke on occasion looks for the same things but doesn't have the space to play it.
I want to see a lot more from both.
I mentioned this before since everyone is going on about Williams being a young talent. Shaw in his debut season made it in to the team of the PFA team of the year and competed with Hazard for young player of the year.
I'm thinking along these lines at the moment.
Certainly needs to channel that combative streak, as the weekend aside, he's looked a cert for a booking every game.
I'm nervous about the idea of a player for a decade though. We've seen with Shaw it's not always that easy
Shaw was competing for young player of the year 6 PL games into his first season? Seems very unfair and early to draw the comparison, or make any conclusion from 6 games but I can understand your point if it is in defence of Shaw. I do agree we have to see more from both of them but this season alone we have seen more from Williams to be exited about, when we consider one is 6 games into his first season and the other one is still struggling with the same issues he had when he came here.
Yes. And I think people are overreacting to Williams going forward. Which is fine as we want our youth to come in and do well and so they get bigged up. But I just haven't seen Cafu levels of production from him that some people have.
Apart from that sweet goal against Sheffield. That was tight.
And I would like to see Williams at right-back, as backup for AWB instead of Young. He is right-footed so surely he would be more comfortable putting in crosses on his preferred foot?
I was making the point that people claiming Williams has a far higher ceiling need to remember Shaw was once that kid and he wasn’t just competing for young player of the year. He was picked in the PFA 11 over players like Baines and so on who had Caf members salivating at the prospect of getting him.
Shaw is way too average and underwhelming. Williams has several poor games this season but at the end of the day he's a young prospect who's just developing, so putting performance such as that great one against Burnley is really welcome and proves he has a good ceiling. On the other hand I doubt Shaw is going to improve anymore. He's just average all around and will probably stay like that.
I'll prefer us to buy a proper LB and have Williams as a sub option to take his time developing normally while getting rid of Shaw.
I'll prefer us to buy a proper LB and have Williams as a sub option to take his time developing normally while getting rid of Shaw.
Brandon Williams wins this head to head simply by not having the physique of a 35 year old car mechanic.
Ah, got you. I thought Shaw would have a higher ceiling back then than what seems to be the case now, no proof he will get much better than this so I imagine that is why people make that point.
I feel like LVG as manager not fancying him and the leg break had a huge mental toll on Shaw. He had everything in his locker a few years ago to be a top full back. Great speed, great defensive ability, and could have grown his attacking skills. I really really liked him but a combination of the above and probably his own mental failings thinking he’s “made it” already has him toiling at the level he currently is.
Like I said in this thread before, it's not hyping him to high heavens as much as having completely lost patience with Shaw. That being said, I think he's very promising, not least with his attitude. He is well up for it and hasn't seemed fazed in the slightest.
With regards to defending, yes, when we are sitting deep and then driving counters with half the team, Shaw is fine. As soon as he's got to cross the halfway line, defensively, he's worse than Williams because he simply can't track back fast enough. And more often than not, when he's in the opposition half he's almost in the way of our play instead of aiding it.
I understand if people feel differently if they still have any hopes for Shaw coming good. I don't.
Yes I think so - Williams has been impressive on the attacking side before the Burnley game, scored a cracker against Shef Utd too.
Shaw's attacking stats have been poor for a while, his crossing has always been average at best plus he has a tendency to take the safe option even when there is potential for an assist
Still, as I said before, Shaw is the more reliable option defensively
Shaw is still a good defender but I would happily go for Williams in those games where we struggle to break down the double defence
Oh come on! How long does this guy get a pass because he broke his leg? It was literally years ago. LVG was still our manager for feck's sake. It was a terrible injury and you could understand him being hesitant early on but we are talking about something that happened 4 years ago.
This pretty much sums up not only the excessive hype around just Williams, but of most decent young players among a sizeable section of the caf. Lately, we're all so starved of genuine quality that people start making hyperbolic claims as soon as a talent threatens to break into the first team. I get it - the likes of Greenwood, Williams etc have been a welcome distraction from the shit-show that's been the last 7 years - but young players need time and patience. I've already read one prick saying how he was "...ready for another Williams disaster class" before the Newcastle game. That kind of impatient, bitter thinking would've seen Giggs and Ronaldo both written off by the age of 19 by that very same poster and hints at a wider malaise.
Williams was great at Burnley, and has had a few good games this season. He's a genuine prospect...but some of you really need to develop a sense of perspective. Shaw is an international footballer with a lot of high level experience, while Williams is at the start of what will hopefully be a long and fruitful career.
Just support him, hope for the best and temper your expectations with a dash of reality.
That was a cracker of a goal he scored but he was terrible that game and didn’t offer much in attack. He generally for me hasn’t done anything until this previous game and he picked out some very nice runs and balls in. He is certainly talented and in need of refining. Wouldn’t be too worried if he’s Shaw’s back up next season.
Right on to Shaw, personally I just don’t see the hate for Shaw from some. I do wish he would put in more balls like the one Williams put in where he just rolled it across the box but at the same time it’s very rare we get the ball quick enough to the fullbacks on either side to do such a thing. Even the two balls Bissaka put in with one being converted was more of a surprise to me that we got the ball quickly to a fullback in space. It’s such a rare occurrence for this team.
Normally we move the ball so slow that when it finally gets to either fullback that space behind isn’t there for them to put a ball like that in. I still think Shaw can certainly improve his crossing aspect of his game but when he gets up to that area 1 of 2 things happen. He overlaps or goes inside of Rashford and gets ignored or if he is on the ball he instead of crossing, or at least since he has returned to the team played difficult passes in to the box that Martial or Pogba have done quite well taking. Its not an easy 5-10yard pass either.
Those are the things many seem to miss and the fact that Bissaka and Shaw don’t play as wide as TAA or Robertson or as far forward because we have no midfield sitter. If something breaks down there is achres of space behind them to be exploited.
Williams I feel was the beneficiary of Matic being in the team and being a more cautious midfielder who would sit in between Matic and Lindelof and hold a position giving Williams more freedom once again to be wider and commit more frequent.
Not to mention Williams is young and doesn’t know any better. He probably hasn’t made enough mistakes to realise he just can’t bomb forward with no regard for what’s behind him. Shaw got hauled off and lambasted in the press by Jose for attacking when we had the ball, bursting in to space and Martial lost it and the oppo scored a goal from this. Shaw wasn’t seen again for a few months after that.
I think Shaw can still massively improve and my biggest big bear with this team is midfield feel like it effects so many parts of the team that we aren’t getting the best out of other players due to that.
He doesn't 'get a pass' and when the time is right, will be replaced as is the way in the world of football.
I agree with Anderson's Dietician in post #158, I don't understand the hate in Shaw's direction and the midfield needs to be improved to give both our full backs the platform to go forward more effectively.
Burnley was first time I’ve really watched Williams closely and was really impressed. His tenacity and eagerness to win the ball is allied with a bit of naivety but that will improve with experience.
On the Burnley showing looks more mobile and fluid than Shaw.
On the Burnley showing looks more mobile and fluid than Shaw.
Way too early to judge IMO, but the kid looks promising and talented. At least it makes the need to upgrade the LB position less urgent and we can focus on other positions first.