If we don’t sign anyone this window it shows the club lacks ambition

[buckooo1978]

Some fans don't learn. Liverpool spent nearly 0 this summer and improved. This notion that signings are the only way to improve a team is a FIFA/Football Manager mentality. What if the signings don't perform? More signings?

Signings should be about need instead of signaling ambition, especially in a competitive league like the PL. I convinced if United was collectively managed by the Caf the club would have a roster filled with aging deadwood players.

that's a really simplistic view.... are there any fans who think that signings are the only way to improve?

its undeniable how thin the squad is in quality.

Matic our only DM and he's done
Lingard, Pereira and Mata our number 10s and they have little creativity, productivity or required fitness/physicality in Mata's case
McT and Pogba out long term

that's only considering the midfield too. There are depth issues on the RW and up front.

if you are suggesting we get a manager who is a top coach then grand but I doubt a coach like Klopp can get Matic or Mata to run faster or Lingard/Pereira to be more creative

 

[sparx99]

So you want to continue throwing mud at the wall and see what sticks? Great.

Our problem has been a lack of turnover not too much. We don’t move failures on quickly enough.

 

[Rake]

One more injury to a CM and who else is gonna go in there?

Phil Jones as DM

 

[Josep Dowling]

Daily Football Briefing: There is still a lack of urgency at Manchester United - January could well pass without any new signings

United sources say there is a still a distinct possibility the winter window deadline could pass without a new arrival. If that transpires, it would mean that by the close of the season the club will have made only three major signings in as many windows, after their own version of dry January in 2019 too.

Fantastic news.

Last summer alone Real Madrid made six major signings, Bayern Munich five and Barcelona four. Juventus brought in five major signings plus three significant free transfers, and Paris Saint-Germain completed four, adding two first-team loans and a notable free transfer.

We’re fckd with Edward Woodward at the helm, will be lucky to finish eighth this season.

And on top of that it could be argued all of those clubs did not need that many signings. We are being run into the ground. 3 new signings a season when you are trying to rebuild simply isn't enough.

 

[Gehrman]

And on top of that it could be argued all of those clubs did not need that many signings. We are being run into the ground. 3 new signings a season when you are trying to rebuild simply isn't enough.

Its depressing. Our owners simply dont care.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Some fans don't learn. Liverpool spent nearly 0 this summer and improved. This notion that signings are the only way to improve a team is a FIFA/Football Manager mentality. What if the signings don't perform? More signings?

Signings should be about need instead of signaling ambition, especially in a competitive league like the PL. I convinced if United was collectively managed by the Caf the club would have a roster filled with aging deadwood players.

Liverpool made all their signings the previous year that they needed. Their squad is set.

How many of their signings have failed also? pretty much zero. Even Shaqiri looks a top player for them when fit. Right now he walk into our team at RW.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Some fans don't learn. Liverpool spent nearly 0 this summer and improved. This notion that signings are the only way to improve a team is a FIFA/Football Manager mentality. What if the signings don't perform? More signings?

Signings should be about need instead of signaling ambition, especially in a competitive league like the PL. I convinced if United was collectively managed by the Caf the club would have a roster filled with aging deadwood players.

They won the Champions League last season and should have won the league with the points they got. We are in a completely different situation to that. Moronic statement.

 

[Withnail]

You don’t need to sign players, you need to change the coaching team.

Are you having a laugh?

The best coach in the world isn't going to increase the number of available PL quality midfielders at the club, or make a silk purse out of Matic, Mata, Lingard and Pereira for that matter, by the end of January.

 

[MackRobinson]

that's a really simplistic view.... are there any fans who think that signings are the only way to improve?

its undeniable how thin the squad is in quality.

Matic our only DM and he's done
Lingard, Pereira and Mata our number 10s and they have little creativity, productivity or required fitness/physicality in Mata's case
McT and Pogba out long term

that's only considering the midfield too. There are depth issues on the RW and up front.

if you are suggesting we get a manager who is a top coach then grand but I doubt a coach like Klopp can get Matic or Mata to run faster or Lingard/Pereira to be more creative

Seems you didn't read my second paragraph or the thread title. There are two main points.

a) Signings alone don't aren't a good indicator of the future success of team or else teams like Fulham should still be in the PL. Coaching, allowing players to gel, developing players and no hamstringing the club with large, inflexible contracts are as important as signings.
b) Showing ambition shouldn't be the aim. That's usually reserved for rich owners when they first arrive at clubs (Chelsea, City, and PSG come to mind) but pointless for a worldwide club like United. Transfers should always be about current (1st team) and future needs (prospects and academy).

The point is fans mostly harp on signings, enjoy being transfer muppets, and then throw their toys out of the pram when the signings they want don't come to fruition. If the signings don't work out then more signings are called for, without fans understanding even a club like United has a budget and cannot spend an unlimited amount of money. Primarily focusing on signings is a near pointless exercise almost always leads to disappointment, given that most fans have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to transfers.

 

[kopviolator]

I'd honestly prefer to do the right buisness in the summer rather than signing just anyone now.

Anyway, if the intentions were to do buisness in January then it should have been done already. With regards to ambition I think management has shown for quite some time they are lost.

 

[Withnail]

Some fans don't learn. Liverpool spent nearly 0 this summer and improved. This notion that signings are the only way to improve a team is a FIFA/Football Manager mentality. What if the signings don't perform? More signings?

Signings should be about need instead of signaling ambition, especially in a competitive league like the PL. I convinced if United was collectively managed by the Caf the club would have a roster filled with aging deadwood players.

Bloody hell.

If United had a squad that had just won the CL and ran the PL champions close then maybe we wouldn't have needed signings either.

You're talking about need but I believe we urgently need midfielders as we've feck all fit ones which is why most are saying we should sign them.

You seem to be suggesting people want signings as some kind of mickey swinging contest.

 

[MackRobinson]

They won the Champions League last season and should have won the league with the points they got. We are in a completely different situation to that. Moronic statement.

It was an example to illustrate a point. Not surprised it's lost on you.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I genuinely don't think we will be getting any of our TOP targets this window so we'll probably buy nobody and might get somebody in on loan at the most. We shouldn't be panicking and chucking £50m at Callum Wilson for example just because we feel we need another forward.

 

[MackRobinson]

Liverpool made all their signings the previous year that they needed. Their squad is set.

How many of their signings have failed also? pretty much zero. Even Shaqiri looks a top player for them when fit. Right now he walk into our team at RW.

Liverpool were already a team on the rise before they bought VVD and Allison. Ask yourself this: how many United fans would be happy with Liverpool's signings at the time they were made? Wijnaldum? Shaqiri? Look at the Mane and VVD threads when they were signed.

How many fans criticized Liverpool for not refreshing their squad before the season started? It's easy to argue in hindsight, but they are an example that simply getting players in isn't a good indicator of moving the needle. United have a good, young squad that needs to gel. Yes, depth is needed, but no signing is better than the wrong signing IMO.

 

[Josep Dowling]

It was an example to illustrate a point. Not surprised it's lost on you.

Your point is they didn't invest but improved. I argue they have just followed on from last season in which they were just as strong. Who would you buy to improve their first 11? It's a crap example to compare to us. We sold two midfielders in the summer and now our remaining two best midfielders are injured. To not buy a midfielder isn't about lacking ambition. It's pure stupidity.

 

[romufc]

I hope you are wrong but think you are you are right. You make good points which are very convenient excuses for Woodward to hide behind when he has no intention of buying any players at all.

I hope I am wrong. I want us to sign 2 players. We have been making excuses since October about the January window. In the mean time Chelsea have had their ban uplifted and Liverpool have quietly gone and done business before the window opens?

I understand that the January window is difficult but to say there is nothing out there is lazy. Chelsea have put in a bid in and rejected for Dembele yet media outlets are saying the same thing since June. Manutd considering / preparing bids.

No one saying it is easy but for a massive business like United there has to be structure put in place to look at this?

 

[Withnail]

I genuinely don't think we will be getting any of our TOP targets this window so we'll probably buy nobody and might get somebody in on loan at the most. We shouldn't be panicking and chucking £50m at Callum Wilson for example just because we feel we need another forward.

We'll make do without forwards and agree there's no point throwing big money at mediocrity.

However, Squad depth in midfield was a concern before the season started and we are now down to the bare bones. A loan or two wouldn't go astray and would be low-risk.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Some fans don't learn. Liverpool spent nearly 0 this summer and improved. This notion that signings are the only way to improve a team is a FIFA/Football Manager mentality. What if the signings don't perform? More signings?

Signings should be about need instead of signaling ambition, especially in a competitive league like the PL. I convinced if United was collectively managed by the Caf the club would have a roster filled with aging deadwood players.

When you talk about need. We need players desperately as our squad is extremely thin. Liverpool required little investment as they won the Champions League and managed to finish to finish second with one o the oghest points totals in Premiership history.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We'll make do without forwards and agree there's no point throwing big money at mediocrity.

However, Squad depth in midfield was a concern before the season started and we are now down to the bare bones. A loan or two wouldn't go astray and would be low-risk.

The loan market is where I expect we will be looking. Less risk and there's bound to be players sweating on no going to the Euros unless they get the playing time.

Can't see us spending huge money on transfers whilst Ole isn't doing that well. It's a huge gamble to give him more money for me when he's making too many mistakes with what he already has.

 

[Un4givableB]

Liverpool were already a team on the rise before they bought VVD and Allison. Ask yourself this: how many United fans would be happy with Liverpool's signings at the time they were made? Wijnaldum? Shaqiri? Look at the Mane and VVD threads when they were signed.

How many fans criticized Liverpool for not refreshing their squad before the season started? It's easy to argue in hindsight, but they are an example that simply getting players in isn't a good indicator of moving the needle. United have a good, young squad that needs to gel. Yes, depth is needed, but no signing is better than the wrong signing IMO.

Wrong on so many levels, it's just delusional to compare us with Liverpool, they were/are the Champions League winners, with a relatively young squad, with a manager who has a track record of improving his players. It's January and they've all but won the league.

We are the polar opposite of Liverpool.

'squad that needs to gel'

 

[Revaulx]

Define ambition.

There has been a divide from day one with Ole (since he was appointed permanent manager) based on where people (posters on here) stand with regard to long-term ambition(s).

What's the aim? Finish in the top four, as if this were an aim worth throwing in the kitchen sink for? If so, overpay for whoever can be considered an upgrade on...whoever. Sure. Hardly a sustainable strategy, though, if those upgrades will be considered "deadwood" for a team actually challenging for the biggest prizes down the line. They will very likely cost an arm and a leg in transfer fees too - not to mention wages.

Whether people like it or not, the basic principle of steering clear of "upgrades" for the sake it makes plenty of sense. Buy players - and offer them contracts - according to a long-term plan. That's what we should do. If we can pick up players who fit that bill now, in the January window, all the better. If not - don't panic. We have overpaid for unsuitable players for years now - it has brought us nowhere closer to where we want to be.

That’s all very well, but if things had actually changed we wouldn’t have signed Maguire.

 

[MackRobinson]

Your point is they didn't invest but improved. I argue they have just followed on from last season in which they were just as strong. Who would you buy to improve their first 11? It's a crap example to compare to us. We sold two midfielders in the summer and now our remaining two best midfielders are injured. To not buy a midfielder isn't about lacking ambition. It's pure stupidity.

So you are telling me everyone thought it was a good idea for Liverpool not to buy anyone?

Note: This is no slight on anyone who thought Liverpool should buy. I thought the same thing. This was just from one page of the Liverpool thread.

I still think if Liverpool do not sign anyone it will be a missed opportunity for them. It's always important to strengthen your team after you win a major trophy so that you continue to dominate. I feel by just depending on this squad they are playing with fire. One or two injuries to their main stars they could be in trouble. Anyways, as a united fan I hope they do not strengthen their team.

No signings is bad enough, VAR introduced this season is a disaster

Liverpool have been strangely quiet in the transfer market this summer. After their CL triumph, I expected Klopp to go on a spending spree with the intent on improving their somewhat average midfield. But nothing as of yet.

Let's hope the situation remains that way.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...end-crazy-money-this-summer-says-jurgen-klopp

Klopps hands are tied financially.

I know Liverpool aren’t the biggest club but how are they in regards to FFP? How much realistically can they spend?

It’s looking like the Coutinho money funded last summers purchases and now it’s dried up.

For me they need to find a way to add a couple of top tier players to their squad whilst Liverpool’s stock is high. Don’t invest and it could come back to bite.

Of course. Not strengthening the squad would be a huge mistake.

Not strengthening or refreshing a squad after a succesful season is a classic mistake.

Their preseason has been a disaster.

Klopp can't have any excuses after such terrible pre-season. He has struck with his decision of not making any big signings, and continue to rely on the front 3. It's not front 3 but Mane which builds this team....

The point is don't be surprised if results don't change even with signings, especially if the right player isn't available.

 

[MackRobinson]

When you talk about need. We need players desperately as our squad is extremely thin. Liverpool required little investment as they won the Champions League and managed to finish to finish second with one o the oghest points totals in Premiership history.

I'm just saying it still needs to be the right player or the issues with clearing deadwood will arise again.

 

[hungrywing]

I don't think that I could agree more to a post.

We're just all doing our part.

What a superb post!

The only “right manager” for us is one who has the gravitas, but more importantly the tact, to be able to manage Woodward and guide him in a more pragmatic and logical direction. One who can come up with a decent strategy and sell it in a way that Woodward can believe it was his idea in the first place.

For that to work, Woodward would have to be a narcissist one-level above (below?) what I think he is. But hell, if it works, why not. Butter him up. That being said, what you're describing could have already been attempted under some of the other managers. I could see a Jose or an LvG trying that out once they realized what made him tick. Now I'm thinking maybe that's how we got Pogba. W: 'Again, welcome Jose, now who would you like to buy?' J: 'Someone like Pogba, I sink - but not Pogba, mind you, that's very important. Very imp- What are you doing-''

Allegri maybe? Not Poch; while I rate him highly as a coach he’s far too emotional. The German hipster choices might be great under the right structure, but any incoming manager is going to have to build that structure themself.

I think that's why a lot of posters were/are bullish on the Rangnick/Nagelsman/Rose angle; aka the hope that they'd come with at least some of that German network and all those intangible benefits attached.

Malcolm Glazer was never involved with the club though. He suffered a stroke right before the takeover which incapacitated him. His sons were the ones in charge from the start.

Yes, but Is that true in the strictest sense, though? I guess I always assumed he'd laid all the groundwork and while everything was delegated and while he was never directly involved as you point out, it was set up so that his hand was within reach of all the levers. I have no idea. All I know is Papa Glazer made some tough, tough decisions with their NFL team. If he did originally have that kind of oversight, then I think sacking a poorly performing 'executive vice chairman' would be peanuts in comparison.

 

[MackRobinson]

Wrong on so many levels, it's just delusional to compare us with Liverpool, they were/are the Champions League winners, with a relatively young squad, with a manager who has a track record of improving his players. It's January and they've all but won the league.

We are the polar opposite of Liverpool.

'squad that needs to gel'

I'm using Liverpool as an example. I can use Tottenham last season as an example as well.

 

[jackal&hyde]

If we don't sign at least one player and that player being a CM then i would resign if i was the manager or at least go public against the owners/Woodward. It's impossible to compete even with lower level premier League opposition when you have Matic and Fred in mid and long term injury to your best player. The manager already has no support from the fans and the press for managing 5th and still in contention for all the cups; no players coming in is pure sabotage from the club.

This window the club will show it's true face in terms of desire to compete, or scapegoat managers like they've done since SAF retired.

 

[Un4givableB]

I'm using Liverpool as an example. I can use Tottenham last season as an example as well.

And want happened at Tottenham?

The team went backwards, manager sacked.

 

[Withnail]

I'm using Liverpool as an example. I can use Tottenham last season as an example as well.

The Tottenham example is even worse.

Pochettino was prevented from freshening up his squad when it was required and the chickens have well and truly come home to roost on that decision.

 

[Withnail]

If we don't sign at least one player and that player being a CM then i would resign if i was the manager or at least go public against the owners/Woodward. It's impossible to compete even with lower level premier League opposition when you have Matic and Fred in mid and long term injury to your best player. The manager already has no support from the fans and the press for managing 5th and still in contention for all the cups; no players coming in is pure sabotage from the club.

This window the club will show it's true face in terms of desire to compete, or scapegoat managers like they've done since SAF retired.

Ole still has quite a bit of support and the match going fans aren't showing any sign of turning on him. It's easy for the board to ignore people giving out on-line.

 

[romufc]

If we don't sign at least one player and that player being a CM then i would resign if i was the manager or at least go public against the owners/Woodward

This is exactly what is needed. Stand up against the club.. who gives a feck if you love the club or not. The lack of backing should infuriate him. He needs to be brave and come out and speak against the board.

 

[MackRobinson]

And want happened at Tottenham?

The team went backwards, manager sacked.

Tottenham made signings this year. Last year they didn't make any in the summer IIRC.

 

[Shimo]

Don't support the way we've gone about the transfer business but, I don't think can blanket say if we don't sign anyone then we have no ambition.
To sign a player we want

1) the selling club needs to be willing to sell and even though it is January and United and we are desperate, it can't be at a completely unreasonable price
2) The player we want actually wants to come here and not make unreasonable demands in terms of salary, playing time and contractual terms.

Still not convinced by Ole as a manager for games but, his approach for the future, signing players that fit a particular long term approach to football for the team and the character is spot on. I think the club absolutely wants to be in the top 4, the amount of money we'd lose for not being in CL again would be a lot but, I don't think they are going to try just fill spots with players that may or may not help get in the top 4 and then have to restart all over again in the summer.

If we can get a player like Grealish or Maddison who not only will help now but, also be a player for the long term, then absolutely should do everything we can but, those are going to be very very difficult if not impossible types of players to get this window.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I agree that we need quality players. If the players we want are not available until the summer, I think we should try for a few players on loan to hopefully qualify for the Champions League. Without signing any players I don't think we've got a chance of champions League qualification.

 

[MackRobinson]

The Tottenham example is even worse.

Pochettino was prevented from freshening up his squad when it was required and the chickens have well and truly come home to roost on that decision.

They strengthened this summer and performed worse. Last year they didn't strengthen and made top 4 and the CL final. Of course, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it just illustrates that a lack of signings isn't a death knell for a club nor does it show a lack of ambition.

 

[manunited1919]

Things were ugly when we sold Herrera and Fellaini without replacements. Last season when we had both of them along with our current midfield, that is when most of us thought that we needed upgrades.

Now we are without two out of our mid 3 of last year (Herrera-Pogba), our first choice backup (Fellaini), our promising youngster of last year (who is now a crucial first teamer, McT).

So essentially last year we had Matic, Herrera, Pogba, McTominay, Fred, Fellaini, Pereira as our midfield options.. Now we have Matic, Fred, Pereira. How can things get uglier? It is criminal that we didn't sign a replacement in the summer. It is beyond criminal that even now, we're not even bothered. It is a full blown crisis right now.

If we go on a similar run of poor performance such as we did at the end of last season, we could be involved in a relegation battle. For a club like MUFC that should be an unthinkable possibility, but it’s not really unthinkable now.

 

[Withnail]

They strengthened this summer and performed worse. Last year they didn't strengthen and made top 4 and the CL final. Of course, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it just illustrates that a lack of signings isn't a death knell for a club nor does it show a lack of ambition.

They strengthened too late imo and we saw the the effects of that from the latter half of last season where their league form was poor.

But your point is valid in general if this was the usual wah wah wah we need signings guff.

However, the United squad is threadbare and the club is in dire need of midfielders.

In the specific case where United do the usual and claim no value in the market etc and carry on with Matic and Fred as the only two first team CMs it does display a lack of ambition with regard to finishing in the top 4 this year.

I'm not really sure how you can argue against that but you seem to be arguing with people who are making this specific point with a more general and frankly irrelevant point, given the specific nature of the problems affecting United today.

 

[dev1l]

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[Nickelodeon]

If we go on a similar run of poor performance such as we did at the end of last season, we could be involved in a relegation battle. For a club like MUFC that should be an unthinkable possibility, but it’s not really unthinkable now.

We need 3 wins to be safe. Guess we’ll get them in the next 18 matches.

It’s shameful for us that even this needs to be said with a modicum of seriousness.

 

[Bestietom]

We need 3 wins to be safe. Guess we’ll get them in the next 18 matches.

It’s shameful for us that even this needs to be said with a modicum of seriousness.

Don't think we are that bad YET??

 

[dove]

We need 3 wins to be safe. Guess we’ll get them in the next 18 matches.

It’s shameful for us that even this needs to be said with a modicum of seriousness.

C'mon now, we will get at least 5 wins.