Are Martial's problems to do with the level of the team or independent of them?

[roonster09]

Like i said last time, it's a mix of both. He is a player who likes to drift outside or drop deep to build up play. Problem is we don't have players who can use that space, our wide players bar Rashford don't know how to make runs. On top of that he was isolated against Wolves with no one near by.

Against Wolves he was poor too, struggled with first touch or bring the ball down which are his strengths usually.

Right now the future doesn't look good with Rashford's injury. Only hope is Ighalo playing well as 9 and Martial moving to LW. Once Rashford is back we should switch back to regular attack.

 

[Bobcat]

Clearly fed up of playing with crap. He’s not Rashford you cannot tell him to just go out and play. He needs structure and I think the most intelligent already knew he wasn’t going to step up when Rashford got injured. He will never carry a poor team.

But for those wages, he should though. In terms of pure talent i'd say not much separates those two, but when it comes to attitude, mentality and winning instinct they are worlds apart.

Everyone knew losing Rashford would spell trouble both for Martial and our attack in general, but its at times like those you need your other players to step the feck up and take some responsibility. The main problem with Martial when hes in this kind of form is not his poor touch or the fact that he cant seem to hit a 5 yard pass, its that hes not fecking moving and when he is moving hes moving the wrong way because he thinks he must participate in the build up.

And its time we stopped blaming everything from coaches, managers and other players. Its been the same with him for 4 years now, 3 different managers and different players surrounding him

 

[He'sRaldo]

Like i said last time, it's a mix of both. He is a player who likes to drift outside or drop deep to build up play. Problem is we don't have players who can use that space, our wide players bar Rashford don't know how to make runs. On top of that he was isolated against Wolves with no one near by.

Against Wolves he was poor too, struggled with first touch or bring the ball down which are his strengths usually.

Right now the future doesn't look good with Rashford's injury. Only hope is Ighalo playing well as 9 and Martial moving to LW. Once Rashford is back we should switch back to regular attack.

I remember Deeny and Ighalo working well together as a front 2, maybe that's something else we could try.

Rest of the post was spot on. We need a right-sided forward to add to the goals, but those seem to be the rarest nowadays. Everyone we sign seems to want to play off the left and cut in!

 

[Freak]

When he played on the left we said he's not very good as he always comes short and doesn't want to make runs in behind. When he's now playing as a striker we are saying the exact same things over again plus the fact that he's also not very good at holding the ball up. I think the problem is just Martial - he's overhyped.

 

[Snow]

I don't have a problem with Martial.

He's a creative player so he's going to try things that sometimes don't work and we'll lose possession. That's fine.
He doesn't get much help in attack. No one good on either side of him with Rashford out. The only player that makes quick passes with him and runs is Mata. Mata can move the ball quickly but not himself unless we're counting 5 meters or so (the edge of the box for example). Those places are so congested normally because we play slowly so teams usually are organized with 9-10 men behind the ball, something be just can't break down. Sometimes we manage it somehow, usually Martial is involved.

I'd like to compare him to Benzema. Their skill set is similar and Benzema but one has a lot better team mates than the other.

He just turned 24. The 11 matches he didn't play in because of injury we won only 2. Three games of 28 he didn't start. We won 1, scoring the winner against Chelsea in the cup after he came on. The other 2 games he played less than 10 minutes and we won neither. We've only won 18 out of 39 games this season (feck me) but he started 15 of them.

We can keep bumping threads after every single match and change the flavor each week but the fact of the matter is that the squad isn't very good. We don't have a good front 3. We don't have a good starting midfield with these injuries and there's been no cover for the attackers all season. We've been playing Pereira, Mata, Chong, Gomes and Greenwood on the wings as cover for James ffs, to not mention only one of them has more than 1 season in the PL.

 

[Judas]

Benzema is twice the player Martial will ever be, bonkers comparison. Ones a natural goal scorer the other is Martial.

 

[mattunited1978]

We need to get a proper striker in the summer, Martial can be Rashfords back up on the left...Absolutely woeful yday, only Andreas next level of rubbish prevented him from being the worst player on the pitch.

 

[Judas]

People can make as many fair excuses as they'd like, yes he's surrounded by crap, the best more often than not rise to the top, and stand out, but he doesn't, if anything he shrinks smaller. He doesn't stand out at all in games so often.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Cut the consistency bullshit, other than short space dribbling what's he good at?

You defend our players too much.

He's not strong, can't head the ball, doesn't make runs, keeps the ball for far too long, can't shoot from distance, can't defend, doesn't pressure the oposition.

A lot of you defend him because here and there you see flashes of brilliance. That doesn't make him a good player.

Feck me, Adel Taraabt was showing more flashes of brilliance than him.

Martial is and always will be a promise, one of those players that can do a trick here and there but will never up his game to be considered a high calibre one. (And no, it is not a lack of consistency, it's lack of quality)

 

[Paul778]

Cut tue i consistency bullshit, other than short space dribbling what's he goos at?

You defend our players too much.

He's not strong, can't head the ball, doesn't make runs, keeps the ball for far too long, can't shoot from distance, can't defend, doesn't pressure the oposition.

A lot of you defend him because here and there you see flashes of brilliance. That doesn't maie him a good player.

Feck me, Adel Taraabt was showing more flashes of brilliance than him.

Martial is and always will be a promise, one of those players that can do a trick here and there but will never up his game to be considered a high calibre one. (And no, it is not a lack of consistency, it's lack of quality)

This completely. He is still living off of "Welcome to Manchester Anthony Martial". Name a main striker in the premier league era for us that he's anywhere near as good as...?

It's laughable that he is a main striker for us. He has no presence at all. I would have loved for him to have lived up to his potential but he just hasn't.

We need someone who excels as a no9 in multiple areas. Our next Rooney, RVP, RVN, Cole. Hell I'd even take a Saha right now.

Leaving Utds history aside, who in the premier league right now would you not take their no9 in preference to ours? He's just completely anonymous in games.

The excuse has been there has been no real service. Well Bruno is now here and is clearly a major upgrade so that excuse is going to fall away now. It will be now clear that Martial looks, sounds and is a duck.

 

[Mainoldo]

But for those wages, he should though. In terms of pure talent i'd say not much separates those two, but when it comes to attitude, mentality and winning instinct they are worlds apart.

Everyone knew losing Rashford would spell trouble both for Martial and our attack in general, but its at times like those you need your other players to step the feck up and take some responsibility. The main problem with Martial when hes in this kind of form is not his poor touch or the fact that he cant seem to hit a 5 yard pass, its that hes not fecking moving and when he is moving hes moving the wrong way because he thinks he must participate in the build up.

And its time we stopped blaming everything from coaches, managers and other players. Its been the same with him for 4 years now, 3 different managers and different players surrounding him

What build up play? He’s participating in made up freestyle rubbish.

Maybe if he had some instructions or other players new what to do except for Telling the two pivot midfielders not to cross the half way line...he wouldn’t be seeking looking for the ball.

If he stayed up to people would moan and say he needs to drop deep and help out.

Fact is if Greenwood was their instead we would think he wasn’t playing. Like against City ( But he gets a pass- not a single mention about it). If Rashford was there he’d have done the same thing like he did earlier in the season when Martial was out. So let’s put our hopes on the new you Ighalo see if he can play like Harry Kane - Benzema etc for this team.

 

[Mainoldo]

This completely. He is still living off of "Welcome to Manchester Anthony Martial". Name a main striker in the premier league era for us that he's anywhere near as good as...?

It's laughable that he is a main striker for us. He has no presence at all. I would have loved for him to have lived up to his potential but he just hasn't.

We need someone who excels as a no9 in multiple areas. Our next Rooney, RVP, RVN, Cole. Hell I'd even take a Saha right now.

Leaving Utds history aside, who in the premier league right now would you not take their no9 in preference to ours? He's just completely anonymous in games.

The excuse has been there has been no real service. Well Bruno is now here and is clearly a major upgrade so that excuse is going to fall away now. It will be now clear that Martial looks, sounds and is a duck.

Name a striker that had to play under Ole?

 

[Judas]

You can't blame Ole for Martial when Martial has been putting in these same crap performances for years, such mental gymnastics. He's been here years, and hasn't even slightly pushed on from his first season.

 

[Mainoldo]

You can't blame Ole for Martial when Martial has been putting in these same crap performances for years, such mental gymnastics. He's been here years, and hasn't even slightly pushed on from his first season.

Sounds like the football club. Like Pogba we should just sell him so we can all moan after that we need the quality of a Martial and who decided to replace him with Danny Ings.

 

[Bobcat]

What build up play? He’s participating in made up freestyle rubbish.

Maybe if he had some instructions or other players new what to do except for Telling the two pivot midfielders not to cross the half way line...he wouldn’t be seeking looking for the ball.

If he stayed up to people would moan and say he needs to drop deep and help out.

Fact is if Greenwood was their instead we would think he wasn’t playing. Like against City ( But he gets a pass- not a single mention about it). If Rashford was there he’d have done the same thing like he did earlier in the season when Martial was out. So let’s put our hopes on the new you Ighalo see if he can play like Harry Kane - Benzema etc for this team.

But its been this way for 4 years under 3 different managers. He has a period where he looks class then followed with a period where he looks like a complete amateur.

Him and Greenwood have scored as many goals this season (12) Martial has 5 assists and Greenwood 4. The difference is that Greenwood has done that in 1600mins, where as Martial has played 2100 and is supposedly in his best years where as Greenwood is a teenager fresh from the academy. With Jose and LvG people claimed they wasted him on the LW, now hes been given the no 9 shirt and has been first choice CF the entire season

Not going to pretend that our attacking play is any good, because it isn't. But Martial is as guilty here as anyone else and is not some victim in all of this.

 

[Kostur]

But its been this way for 4 years under 3 different managers. He has a period where he looks class then followed with a period where he looks like a complete amateur.

Him and Greenwood have scored as many goals this season (12) Martial has 5 assists and Greenwood 4. The difference is that Greenwood has done that in 1600mins, where as Martial has played 2100 and is supposedly in his best years where as Greenwood is a teenager fresh from the academy. With Jose and LvG people claimed they wasted him on the LW, now hes been given the no 9 shirt and has been first choice CF the entire season

Not going to pretend that our attacking play is any good, because it isn't. But Martial is as guilty here as anyone else and is not some victim in all of this.

Yeah it's just that everybody in the team is ignoring Martial's world class runs off so he gets angry and confused and stops doing it because he's tired of dross whereas everybody's feedng Greenwood perfect tap in opportunities. Applies to every other striker/player at the club/in the league/in the world.

 

[Ali Dia]

It’s awful hard dribble through a low block. Tony has been pure shite since Rashford got injured though. Lads he cost 50 million quid. Yes he’s very talented and unplayable on form but he’s seriously inconsistent. Imagine him though in a Bayern team or something like that. He’d be on every other big clubs radar within a season again. He’s class. Frustrating but a good player. I can’t believe I keep saying this after all these years, it’s still a broken team. Could those
managers with 100plus million every year not assemble a decent team between them- regardless of the system, project, philosophy, chairman, lingard etc. Our wage bill is a balls for what we get for it. Pogba is going to be huge for Us when he comes back. On his way to winning a euros and walking out on free next summer?

 

[Mainoldo]

But its been this way for 4 years under 3 different managers. He has a period where he looks class then followed with a period where he looks like a complete amateur.

Him and Greenwood have scored as many goals this season (12) Martial has 5 assists and Greenwood 4. The difference is that Greenwood has done that in 1600mins, where as Martial has played 2100 and is supposedly in his best years where as Greenwood is a teenager fresh from the academy. With Jose and LvG people claimed they wasted him on the LW, now hes been given the no 9 shirt and has been first choice CF the entire season

Not going to pretend that our attacking play is any good, because it isn't. But Martial is as guilty here as anyone else and is not some victim in all of this.

But Greenwood isn’t exactly Danny Welbeck. He had them numbers because he’s Mason Greenwood. You have to understand that... what you’ve just done is compare quality with quality.

Everyone is raving about Rashford’s season but how does Rashford numbers compare to Martial if we take away both of their penalty goals? I’ll think you’ll find your analysis looks up shites creek after that.

I’ll take a look now myself but go find out and get back to me too.

 

[ghaliboy]

Maybe if he had some instructions or other players new what to do except for Telling the two pivot midfielders not to cross the half way line...he wouldn’t be seeking looking for the ball.

This is just desperate excuse making. His manager is one of the best in the box strikers to ever play in the Premier League. If he can't learn anything from Ole then he'll never learn anything from anybody.

 

[JPRouve]

But Greenwood isn’t exactly Danny Welbeck. He had them numbers because he’s Mason Greenwood. You have to understand that... what you’ve just done is compare quality with quality.

Everyone is raving about Rashford’s season but how does Rashford numbers compare to Martial if we take away both of their penalty goals? I’ll think you’ll find your analysis looks up shites creek after that.

I’ll take a look now myself but go find out and get back to me too.

Without penalties in PL, Rashford has 9 goals and 4 assists in 1882 minutes. Martial has 8 goals and 3 assists in 1548 minutes.

 

[MartinRed]

It's impossible in modern day football to play with poor midfield , especially in England.It is hard for both attackers and defenders to play without support from the midfield.We are very thin in midfield in numbers and quality.Until we add serious quality in that area we will continue to suffer.

 

[JPRouve]

This is just desperate excuse making. His manager is one of the best in the box strikers to ever play in the Premier League. If he can't learn anything from Ole then he'll never learn anything from anybody.

Being good at something doesn't make you good at teaching it.

 

[Carl]

The lack of service argument is valid in a lot of situations, but that doesn't explain his absolute lack of ability to hold the ball up. His last 2 games have been dreadful, because when we have managed to get the ball to him it's just come straight back because he either miscontrols or is dispossessed really easily.

He would look good in a high functioning team, but for me he's had a number of years here and not really improved any. Yesterday we may has well have been playing with 10men he was that bad.

 

[humdinger]

He’s too inconsistent. He’s not a kid anymore and should be stepping up to take on the goal scoring burden in Rashford’s absence but I’m not convinced he will.

 

[Mainoldo]

This is just desperate excuse making. His manager is one of the best in the box strikers to ever play in the Premier League. If he can't learn anything from Ole then he'll never learn anything from anybody.

Like how Alan Shearer learnt of Kevin Keagan? What kind of stupid argument is that.

 

[JPRouve]

The lack of service argument is valid in a lot of situations, but that doesn't explain his absolute lack of ability to hold the ball up. His last 2 games have been dreadful, because when we have managed to get the ball to him it's just come straight back because he either miscontrols or is dispossessed really easily.

He would look good in a high functioning team, but for me he's had a number of years here and not really improved any.

Because that's not a thing, yesterday he was repeatedly fouled and their CBs should have been booked a long time ago and his hold up play has led to yesterday shots attempts. Of course, there is room for improvement because he isn't close to a prime Drogba but at the same time he isn't Drogba.

 

[Mainoldo]

Without penalties in PL, Rashford has 9 goals and 4 assists in 1882 minutes. Martial has 8 goals and 3 assists in 1548 minutes.

As expected yet one has improved and heading in the right direction whilst the other one is doing the total opposite. Apparently.

 

[Carl]

Because that's not a thing, yesterday he was repeatedly fouled and their CBs should have been booked a long time ago and his hold up play has led to yesterday shots attempts. Of course, there is room for improvement because he isn't close to a prime Drogba but at the same time he isn't Drogba.

Yeh, theres probably someone in between Drogba and Martial for holding the ball up... no one is expecting him to hold it up like the best in the world.

As for the fouling as an excuse. Come on now. It was just poor forward play mate. Theres no harm admitting and acknowledging it, rather than trying to constantly find excuses for him.

 

[Litch]

It's hard to look good in this team because there are players that wouldn't look out of place in the West Ham side. We've seen Tony at his best and we've seen Rashford at his worst. Both talents but like the other few talents we have, it's hard not to start smelling when surrounded by shite....

 

[Judas]

As expected yet one has improved and heading in the right direction whilst the other one is doing the total opposite. Apparently.

Rashford has clearly improved this season, whereas Martial is just Martial, its more of the same. It's more of the same. You don't have to try and bring another player down to stick up for the other. Well you shouldn't need to.

I'd like to see Martial in a top team starting every week, I doubt we ever will, I can't see many rushing to sign him.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeh, theres probably someone in between Drogba and Martial for holding the ball up... no one is expecting him to hold it up like the best in the world.

As for the fouling as an excuse. Come on now. It was just poor forward play mate. Theres no harm admitting and acknowledging it, rather than trying to constantly find excuses for him.

Of course there are players between Martial and Drogba and there are also many players below Martial. The way you talk about it, I would swear that he is actually bad at it when he is generally good with room for improvement. Just in our team in the past two seasons Rashford and Lukaku have been routinely worse with Rashford being dreadful in that department this season.

As for the second sentence, he was fouled there is nothing else to say. Stop talking nonsense.

 

[Judas]

Martial's hold up play is alright if he gets the space, like against City in December, but yesterday was a more accurate example of how he handles that job. Easily bullied, easily dispossessed, and easily allowed to keep it because more often than not, he takes too long and chances are gone.

 

[Mainoldo]

Rashford has clearly improved this season, whereas Martial is just Martial, its more of the same. It's more of the same. You don't have to try and bring another player down to stick up for the other. Well you shouldn't need to.

I'd like to see Martial in a top team starting every week, I doubt we ever will, I can't see many rushing to sign him.

Im not bringing another player I actually also like.. down. I’m just bringing clarity.

I also go on record saying Rashford hasn’t improved. His numbers are just better. Rashford is playing like how Rashford should. Which is why I can make bets before the season starts that Rashford will out score Firmino.

These players aren’t getting better than are just being themselves. We need shape and organisation to start seeing the best out of these players and stop living off this individual simplistic view of our team. It gets us nowhere.

 

[Judas]

Im not bringing another player I actually also like.. down. I’m just bringing clarity.

I also go on record saying Rashford hasn’t improved. His numbers are just better. Rashford is playing like how Rashford should. Which is why I can make bets before the season starts that Rashford will out score Firmino.

These players aren’t getting better than are just being themselves. We need shape and organisation to start seeing the best out of these players and stop living off this individual simplistic view of our team. It gets us nowhere.

? So he's improved then?

 

[Mainoldo]

Martial's hold up play is alright if he gets the space, like against City in December, but yesterday was a more accurate example of how he handles that job. Easily bullied, easily dispossessed, and easily allowed to keep it because more often than not, he takes too long and chances are gone.

What was you watching. Did you not see how he was drawing fools? There was nothing to work with.

Go watch his movement around the 30 minute mark where he drew a fool of Saiss. It’s not by accident what happened.

 

[Carl]

Of course there are players between Martial and Drogba and there are also many players below Martial. The way you talk about it, I would swear that he is actually bad at it when he is generally good with room for improvement. Just in our team in the past two seasons Rashford and Lukaku have been routinely worse with Rashford being dreadful in that department this season.

As for the second sentence, he was fouled there is nothing else to say. Stop talking nonsense.

Hes been terrible holding the ball up this last 2 games, and fouling had nothing to do with it. Sorry if that's "nonsense" to you

 

[Mainoldo]

? So he's improved then?

Yes. We made him the main penalty taker and he’s scored 8 of them.

Ole master class. Can you actually raise a good point?

 

[Carl]

I know I shouldn't still be surprised by this, but it really does amaze me the lengths people will go to to excuse awful performances by certain United players. Martial has certainly hit cult levels in this regard.

You can criticise a performance and still think a player is really good you know.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yeh, theres probably someone in between Drogba and Martial for holding the ball up... no one is expecting him to hold it up like the best in the world.

As for the fouling as an excuse. Come on now. It was just poor forward play mate. Theres no harm admitting and acknowledging it, rather than trying to constantly find excuses for him.

People’s football knowledge in this place at times.

 

[Mainoldo]

I know I shouldn't still be surprised by this, but it really does amaze me the lengths people will go to to excuse awful performances by certain United players. Martial has certainly hit cult levels in this regard.

You can criticise a performance and still think a player is really good you know.

Of course you can... but we some people chat rubbish like Martial doesn’t have hold up play. It’s hard to just make things slide.