Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[sglowrider]

We could be resting Martial, Rashford and Fred ourselves soon if we just get Sancho, Haaland and Partey. And a few others.

We can only dream....

Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the United dream.

I have a dream that one day this club will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We play entertaining football, develop our academy and youth and we beat the Scouser cnuts every year."

I have a dream that one day on the red seats of Old Trafford, the sons of former Ole Ins and the sons of former Ole Outs will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the city of Manchester, a city sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering due the heat of FFP, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and fair, exciting football.

I have a dream that my four little cats will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by the color of their kit but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

 

[MikeKing]

We can only dream....

Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.

And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the United dream.

I have a dream that one day this club will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We play entertaining football, develop our academy and youth and we beat the Scouser cnuts every year."

I have a dream that one day on the red seats of Old Trafford, the sons of former Ole Ins and the sons of former Ole Outs will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the city of Manchester, a city sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering due the heat of FFP, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and fair, exciting football.

I have a dream that my four little cats will one day live in a world where they will not be judged by the color of their kit but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today!

That's deep. I liked it.

 

[Tony247]

Imagine us resting a Fernandinho, Sterling and Agüero against Real Madrid? The balls but also the squad depth that City has.

Without that depth a club in this age simply cannot dream of competing in four cups. And we are yet to have our best starting 11 sorted out.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

After Ed’s comments today I think we’re stuck with Ole for a while even when we end up outside of the top 4 & could do so so much better with a better manager. We should be giving a decent manager this team & a summer rebuilding but we’re sticking with smiley Ole who’s only still there as he doesn’t rock the boat & has somehow convinced Ed he’s good enough.

Mediocrity for a long long time it is

What did Ed say?

 

[Escobar]

Comparing Ole to managers like SAF, Guardiola, and Klopp is whole other level of stupidity.

Especially if they claim if he had a good team he would be grand too. He has a good team, good players, but most of them perform poor as individuals as well as a team. And there is no one to blame except the manager. People just look for new excuses day by day

 

[Escobar]

What did Ed say?

Long term success under Ole. Then some days later it is Becks who says Ole does a great job. It seems to be working, fans are buying it and ignoring the facts

 

[Karlos PFC]

Look at City, a lot of the time they just pass the ball around with no real plan or purpose. That probably isn't what Guardiola want, but maybe it's the weak point of his spesific philosophy so when they can't create they revert back to the passing. It isn't always the best solution to slowly pass as we've seen with LVG. Not if you need a goal.

You don't understand much about football, do you?
The whole plan and purpose of this constant passing is to make the opposition leave their positions and create space for the attackers.

It's hilarious that a lot of people in the caf don't really understand what a manager does beyond signing a player and setting the formation. Well maybe that's what Ole does because he really looks inept and clueless. I can imagine his team preparation "Come on lads, play with courage, show no fear, I expect you to run at least 10km today, that's what a real Manchester United player should do".
No plan no preparation, as for the claim that he developed Rashford and Fred. Well let me remind you of Sterling when he left Liverpool and in his pre-Guardiola City days, was considered a too expensive not so special forward who needed 15 chances to convert a goal. But when Pep came he upped his game exactly because of the managers tactical instructions.
There was an interview with Sterling about that. That Pep instructed him to put his body "this" way so when he got the ball he would have more options to pass the ball in better positions etc.

 

[Class of 63]

You don't understand much about football, do you?
The whole plan and purpose of this constant passing is to make the opposition leave their positions and create space for the attackers.

It's hilarious that a lot of people in the caf don't really understand what a manager does beyond signing a player and setting the formation. Well maybe that's what Ole does because he really looks inept and clueless. I can imagine his team preparation "Come on lads, play with courage, show no fear, I expect you to run at least 10km today, that's what a real Manchester United player should do".
No plan no preparation, as for the claim that he developed Rashford and Fred. Well let me remind you of Sterling when he left Liverpool and in his pre-Guardiola City days, was considered a too expensive not so special forward who needed 15 chances to convert a goal. But when Pep came he upped his game exactly because of the managers tactical instructions.
There was an interview with Sterling about that. That Pep instructed him to put his body "this" way so when he got the ball he would have more options to pass the ball in better positions etc.

Well thank feck you're here to educate those less fortunate.

 

[TRUERED89]

Imagine us resting a Fernandinho, Sterling and Agüero against Real Madrid? The balls but also the squad depth that City has.

Haha huge balls, and it payed off for a deserved win. But if they can lose twice at home to us this season, the tie isn’t over yet for Madrid imo.

 

[Bilbo]

While that may be true, I think all teams rely on individual brilliance. Especially when we're talking about goals in the tougher games. That's very often what decides matches and can be the key difference between similar teams. It's the moments where nothing happens where it doesn't look like we have cohesion, and we lack a bit but we have definitely improved in that area since Mourinho, imo. However, all teams have those moments throughout a season to varying degrees. In a normal season, a great team simply wont be able to do what they are told to such an extent it looks both effortless and productive all the time. Look at City, a lot of the time they just pass the ball around with no real plan or purpose. That probably isn't what Guardiola want, but maybe it's the weak point of his spesific philosophy so when they can't create they revert back to the passing. It isn't always the best solution to slowly pass as we've seen with LVG. Not if you need a goal.

Every style has an upside and a downside and how it looks when the team can't execute it properly hardly matters, as long as the upside is strong enough to dominate when it works. Teams are always going to rely on being able grind out wins every now and then, and I'd say most of the time goals comes from individual brilliance.

I don't think we are looking like a team playing at more than the sum of it's parts, but I'd certainly not say we are underperforming either. I think Ole has improved players and got them going, but I think it is unfair to expect even more right now from these players and Ole. We aren't exactly stacked with quality and I don't think anyone can really blame Ole for not getting a tune out of Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Jones, etc. It is normal that our consistency and cohesiveness would take a hit because of regularly having to include these players. I'm not able to confidently say we do not suffer because of it, and that our lack of cohesive play is solely in the hands of Ole. I expect to see these players out, and I expect to see improvement in what we're talking about here. If that doesn't happen, firstly I'll be flabbergasted but I'd also be inclined to be very angry at the club at that point, because there is no point in keeping Ole if we're going to continue to do mistakes outside of the pitch. He might be able to manage us if the right things happens outside of the pitch, but he doesn't have the experience to carry Ed on his shoulders and win something with Lingard and Jones. Not that I think anyone could. Sorry for being long-winded, I'm tired.

Good post

 

[Bilbo]

You don't understand much about football, do you?
The whole plan and purpose of this constant passing is to make the opposition leave their positions and create space for the attackers.

It's hilarious that a lot of people in the caf don't really understand what a manager does beyond signing a player and setting the formation. Well maybe that's what Ole does because he really looks inept and clueless. I can imagine his team preparation "Come on lads, play with courage, show no fear, I expect you to run at least 10km today, that's what a real Manchester United player should do".
No plan no preparation, as for the claim that he developed Rashford and Fred. Well let me remind you of Sterling when he left Liverpool and in his pre-Guardiola City days, was considered a too expensive not so special forward who needed 15 chances to convert a goal. But when Pep came he upped his game exactly because of the managers tactical instructions.
There was an interview with Sterling about that. That Pep instructed him to put his body "this" way so when he got the ball he would have more options to pass the ball in better positions etc.

So typical of so many posters on here. Chastise others for not understanding football, and then proceed to 'educate' us by using an example they read in a magazine. Not something they themselves observed, but an article that we all saw as well. Thanks for the lesson Karlos.

 

[elánius]

Im from Norway, and thats simply not true. Lost key players each season, and Rosenborg had rebuilt. Rosenborg is by far the biggest team in Norway. And has much more money.

Molde had good backing in the first two years of Oles reign, but it went back to normal after his comeback in Norway.

Yes ignore the fact Rosenborg are by far the biggest team in Norway and Ole finished a close second to them his last two seasons .

Your hate for a Utd legend just eats you doesn't it ?

This is just not true.
club market value in Eliteserien

Pretty interesting is the graph since the end of 2015 when Ole came back from his Cardiff experience. :-)

 

[R'hllor]

Desparation levels reaching red zone.

 

[Class of 63]

This is just not true.
club market value in Eliteserien

Pretty interesting is the graph since the end of 2015 when Ole came back from his Cardiff experience. :-)

What's market value got to do with anything?

Rosenborg have won the League title 26 times(incl. 22 times since 1988), and the next best is Fredrikstad with 9, and they haven't won it since 1960/61

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This is just not true.
club market value in Eliteserien

Not sure how well that works as an argument (against Ole, as it were, which is how you presumably want to spin it).

If I read this right, Rosenborg's value * was almost twice that of Molde when Ole took over. Molde were the 3rd most valuable team (on par, roughly, with three or four others). Rosenborg were also the defending champions, Molde finished 6th in the previous season.

Ole won the league in his first season - and then defended the title the following season. Without looking at ins/outs or any other relevant factor (just the table), that certainly looks like a pretty impressive achievement, not least since Molde had never won a single title before Ole took over.

In his second stint, Molde finished 6th, 5th and 2nd twice - which isn't positively impressive, of course, but the trajectory is nevertheless positive and doesn't seem to support the idea that the team stagnated badly with him in charge - it would rather seem to support the idea that he was on his way towards building another title winning side when he left for United.

Anyway, it's pointless enough to just look at sheer numbers here - you have to factor in ins/outs and other variables, which other posters more knowledgeable than me have already done in this thread (and multiple others, no doubt).

* Which is neither here nor there to begin with, one might add: Transfermarkt's "valuation" of a club at any given time is just the sum total of what said club's players are presumably worth in the current market (based on certain variables) - it says nothing about a club's financial resources (i.e. ability to spend on transfers/wages). As far as I know, Rosenborg have easily outspent all other Norwegian clubs on both transfers and wages consistently for decades now.

 

[Karlos PFC]

Well thank feck you're here to educate those less fortunate.

I do my best but you English lads just dont get it

 

[lysglimt]

It sure did, but both had an instant impact. Look how madrid were doing with Benitez.

You make it sound like Real were a mid-table side under Benitez

They had 27 Points in 13 matches - but they had that horrible defeat against Barca - and the fact that the players didnt like him.

But he still picked up more than 2 Points pr game - so its not like like Real were struggling….

 

[elánius]

What's market value got to do with anything?

Rosenborg have won the League title 26 times(incl. 22 times since 1988), and the next best is Fredrikstad with 9, and they haven't won it since 1960/61

So your argument "biggest club" in the league is based on how many titles they won? So Everton or Villa are bigger clubs than ManCity, because they won more titles and Guardiola is actually overachieving with them? Arsenal is (right now) definitely bigger club than Chelsea or ManCity because they won more than double league titles than both clubs did? Jesus christ OleIn brigade is pathetic.

 

[hubbuh]

I do my best but you English lads just dont get it

All you English lot stop, log the feck off. Karlos PFC is here to enlighten you Brexiteering, gravy-loving troglodtyes.

 

[mannbeist]

So your argument "biggest club" in the league is based on how many titles they won? So Everton or Villa are bigger clubs than ManCity, because they won more titles and Guardiola is actually overachieving with them? Arsenal is (right now) definitely bigger club than Chelsea or ManCity because they won more than double league titles than both clubs did? Jesus christ OleIn brigade is pathetic.

I dont know why you try to argue with this. Rosenborg is the biggest club by far. They got almost twice the budget of Molde when Ole was in charge. And has been dominating in Norway for 30 years. They were bad last year and came third. But won the series the year before.

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

So your argument "biggest club" in the league is based on how many titles they won?

Oh, please. Are you going to educate us norwegians on norwegian football, based on transfermarkeds made up squad values? Rosenborg is BY FAR the biggest club in Norway. Twice or more the budget of any of the other club. Much bigger crowds then any other club. Have won something like 80% of all competitions last 30 years. Scoops in big sums in european competition regulary. They are in a different league. Really.

 

[Class of 63]

So your argument "biggest club" in the league is based on how many titles they won? So Everton or Villa are bigger clubs than ManCity, because they won more titles and Guardiola is actually overachieving with them? Arsenal is (right now) definitely bigger club than Chelsea or ManCity because they won more than double league titles than both clubs did? Jesus christ OleIn brigade is pathetic.

Yeah because generally that's how it works erm everywhere basically, unless they've gone out of business, obviously, and probably the only team anywhere on the planet that had the same domination of their own League as Rosenborg for such a long period is Colo Colo in Chile, funnily enough they are considered the biggest club in Chile.

Until 10 years ago Accrington fecking Stanley were a bigger club than Man City!

It's nothing to do with Ole In, Ole Out, or Ole Shake it all about, it was just correcting something that was quite clearly incorrect.

 

[Mihai]

This is not Pochettino,
We can be optimistic against top 6 sides.

3 out of the 5 in the list aren't top 6 sides at the moment.

 

[Mihai]

@RedDevilUnited369

To answer the first question. Had we had the same amount of points after 27 games last year, we would've been 12 points behind Chelsea in 5 and 15 points behind Arsenal in 4 (albeit with a game in hand). At the same time, 1 point above 7th and 8th. The main reason why we are still in the top 4 fight this year is due to Arsenal, Spurs and even Chelsea being terrible. 41 points after 27 matches in 2017-2018, would have put us in 6th, 4 points behind Arsenal in 5 and 11 points behind Spurs in 4th.

 

[ReddBalls]

@RedDevilUnited369

To answer the first question. Had we had the same amount of points after 27 games last year, we would've been 12 points behind Chelsea in 5 and 15 points behind Arsenal in 4 (albeit with a game in hand). At the same time, 1 point above 7th and 8th. The main reason why we are still in the top 4 fight this year is due to Arsenal, Spurs and even Chelsea being terrible. 41 points after 27 matches in 2017-2018, would have put us in 6th, 4 points behind Arsenal in 5 and 11 points behind Spurs in 4th.

This line of argument have been done to death in Pochettino-thread. It did not seem to matter to his supporters that his impact in matter of points gained was relatively small. To them, actual league position was most important. I would assume they apply the same perspective when reviewing Ole this season.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yeah because generally that's how it works erm everywhere basically, unless they've gone out of business, obviously, and probably the only team anywhere on the planet that had the same domination of their own League as Rosenborg for such a long period is Colo Colo in Chile, funnily enough they are considered the biggest club in Chile.

Until 10 years ago Accrington fecking Stanley were a bigger club than Man City!

It's nothing to do with Ole In, Ole Out, or Ole Shake it all about, it was just correcting something that was quite clearly incorrect.

So Accrington Stanley until 10 years ago was a bigger than Man City.

righttttttttttttt.

 

[Dec9003]

So Accrington Stanley until 10 years ago was a bigger than Man City.

righttttttttttttt.

They still are bigger!

 

[Mainoldo]

This line of argument have been done to death in Pochettino-thread. It did not seem to matter to his supporters that his impact in matter of points gained was relatively small. To them, actual league position was most important. I would assume they apply the same perspective when reviewing Ole this season.

Yes it would. You would also be right to argue that Poch has benefited from us and Arsenal being a shadow of the sides we once were. However we should also take into account actual logic and see that Ole is stinking this place out with his coaching and managerial capabilities.

 

[Class of 63]

So Accrington Stanley until 10 years ago was a bigger than Man City.

righttttttttttttt.

Closet Blue?

 

[Mainoldo]

Closet Blue?

Explain?

 

[Karlos PFC]

All you English lot stop, log the feck off. Karlos PFC is here to enlighten you Brexiteering, gravy-loving troglodtyes

I don't get the aggression mate. I'm not being disrespectful or racist. I have lots of friends and family that live and work there and is always a pleasure going for visit.
I could answer you in the same manner but I dont think its necessary.

Well there goes my 3rd post for today.

 

[Class of 63]

Explain?

The way you jumped to the defence of Man City, mine was obviously a stupid reply to an even stupider question.

 

[Bilbo]

Some unwritten rules that apply to all of the Ole threads on here.

• When United have won a game or two, and there is nothing new to complain about, discussion will revert back to how Ole did at Molde or Cardiff, and everyone shall have intimate knowledge and recollection of those periods
• When this option is exhausted and everyone bored, discussion will move onto Klopp and why we aren't as good as Liverpool and never will be
• Win or lose, there will be a consistent but vague criticism about coaching - be it poorly executed or complete lack thereof, but always without any analysis or detail to support it
• Frustrated Ole-outers will frequently resort to personal criticism of anyone who isn't as angry as they are, who they view as 'deluded' 'blinded by sentiment' 'brainwashed by the club' & 'lacking in any football education'

 

[Mainoldo]

The way you jumped to the defence of Man City, mine was obviously a stupid reply to an even stupider question.

It was just too stupid! I ended up biting.

 

[Mainoldo]

Some unwritten rules that apply to all of the Ole threads on here.

• When United have won a game or two, and there is nothing new to complain about, discussion will revert back to how Ole did at Molde or Cardiff, and everyone shall have intimate knowledge and recollection of those periods
• When this option is exhausted and everyone bored, discussion will move onto Klopp and why we aren't as good as Liverpool and never will be
• Win or lose, there will be a consistent but vague criticism about coaching - be it poorly executed or complete lack thereof, but always without any analysis or detail to support it
• Frustrated Ole-outers will frequently resort to personal criticism of anyone who isn't as angry as they are, who they view as 'deluded' 'blinded by sentiment' 'brainwashed by the club' & 'lacking in any football education'

Give it a rest will ya!!!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Everyone knows Accrington Stanley is a bigger football club than City - even hardcore City fans will concede this (privately). That's not the point, though.

What we have seen here is an attempt to play down Ole's achievements with Molde by suggesting that Rosenborg aren't/weren't an absolute behemoth in Norwegian football. Which is - well - a bit silly, yes?

Rosenborg won the league two seasons on the trot before Ole took over at Molde. Interestingly, Molde finished 2nd in the first of those seasons (albeit hopelessly adrift points wise). They (Rosenborg) had the biggest revenue/wage bill/attendance at home games - in short, everything you associate with a super team in any domestic setting. Ole came in and won the league for the first time in Molde's history - and he defended the title the following season *.

It would seemingly take some very special pleading to paint this as anything but a very impressive feat.

* The only time that has happened for donkey's years (feel free to correct me here) - except for the same Rosenborg doing it on multiple occasions.

 

[7even]

Time to take a break from this place. A couple of weeks in a better climate will heal my soul.

 

[Mainoldo]

Everyone knows Accrington Stanley is a bigger football club than City - even hardcore City fans will concede this (privately). That's not the point, though.

What we have seen here is an attempt to play down Ole's achievements with Molde by suggesting that Rosenborg aren't/weren't an absolute behemoth in Norwegian football. Which is - well - a bit silly, yes?

Rosenborg won the league two seasons on the trot before Ole took over at Molde. Interestingly, Molde finished 2nd in the first of those seasons (albeit hopelessly adrift points wise). They (Rosenborg) had the biggest revenue/wage bill/attendance at home games - in short, everything you associate with a super team in any domestic setting. Ole came in and won the league for the first time in Molde's history - and he defended the title the following season *.

It would seemingly take some very special pleading to paint this as anything but a very impressive feat.

* The only time that has happened for donkey's years (feel free to correct me here) - except for the same Rosenborg doing it on multiple occasions.

Okay he did well at Molde. So did the manager after him. What does this all mean though? It’s the Norwegian league.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Okay he did well at Molde. So did the manager after him. What does this all mean though? It’s the Norwegian league.

It doesn't mean anything if you're looking for evidence that he's a grand choice for us. As I've said before, his achievements in the Norwegian league isn't comparable in the slightest to - sorry, obligatory reference - what Fergie did with Aberdeen, for instance.

It still isn't right to downplay his achievements for the sake of making him look as bad as possible - which is, essentially, what certain posters on here have been doing.

 

[Mihai]

Explain?

They are asking if you fancy a blue wardrobe.