Evans vs Brown vs Smalling vs Jones as Centre Back

[Champagne Football]

Evans is a clear level above Brown, Smalling and Jones. Evans is like a brick wall when playing fir Northern Ireland.

Brown and Jones are in a similar category in that injuries destroyed their careers.

I think the fact Maguire has come in and we finally look solid at the back for the first time since Fergie quit, proves Smalling was never Utd quality.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Evans is a clear level above Brown, Smalling and Jones. Evans is like a brick wall when playing fir Northern Ireland.

Brown and Jones are in a similar category in that injuries destroyed their careers.

I think the fact Maguire has come in and we finally look solid at the back for the first time since Fergie quit, proves Smalling was never Utd quality.

did you ever watch evans play for united under LVG? likewise did you ever watch Smalling under LVG or under Mourinho in the season where we came 2nd in the league?

now if you're talking about the present, then evans may well be great for northern ireland, i dont watch them. but you cant deny what the roma fans have been saying about smalling at roma.

 

[Utdstar01]

Brown was by far the better CB of them all. If it wasn't for injuries stalling his development he would've been even better.

 

[Freak]

Brown
Smalling
Evans
Jones

In that order.

 

[Flanders Devil]

1. Smalling
2. Brown
3. Evans
4. Jones

As some have said already

 

[Kag]

Smalling’s inherent association with Jones is unfair. They signed within a season of one another but they had very different roles in terms of importance to the first team.

Smalling was/is the best overall centre half, for me. Evans had important runs in the first team, particularly when partnered with Vidic in 2009. When he was sold, his form was dreadful, however; people can forget this. Brown was incredibly talented - albeit a bit of a plonker - but only ever really cemented first team berth at right back in 07/08. Nostalgia may inflate perceptions in this instance.

Jones has been a huge disappointment, ultimately. With that said, when he’s been fit for an extended period of time he’s actually been quite good. Often (conveniently) forgotten, mind you.

 

[izec]

Still amazed people are surprised LvG sold Evans. He was dreadful and an absolute shell once Fergie left. He failed to step up, him and Smalling never really convinced for different reasons. Especially under LvG, Evans was horrendous, a big mistake every game when he got the trust and he fecked it up. He played like a guy from the u18

A lot of our players never stepped up once Fergie left, some have regressed a lot. Evans regained his form at Leicester, but who knows how much time he would have needed here if at all to be a starting CB. The only CB i currently rate that we have that is a sure starter is Maguire, the rest is replaceable.

 

[Rasendori]

Should Evans be the one who stayed not Jones?

https://mover.uz/video/embed/TkTpdRNj/

Evans was United's 2nd best player under Moyes IMHO. Naturally preconceived ideas would have positioned people to think Evans would flourish with the acquisition of LvG. With the benefit of hindsight, he was right to get rid of Evans as he conspicuously struggled to adapt to his meticulous approach. It was clear with the pursuit of Hummels, and Ramos that Iron Tulip was desperate for a central defender that would contribute with ball progression to aid with the transition, but also one with indisputable quality to elevate the side as a collective, as opposed to purely from an individual standpoint. Additionally, its exceedingly likely that Louis would have expected to utilise a central defender from the academy, in which case the experience of the aforementioned playing at the highest level for club and country would have been invaluable. It was certainly the case the likes of Roshaun Williams and Tuanzebe were receiving praise from those familiar with the youth system, and it would turn out Fosu-Mensah who arrived the same year as the boss would also receive plaudits, I still remember being enamoured with his youth level performance at CB against Liverpool. In this way, both Evans and Jones weren't at the requisite standard.

United would spend an exorbitant amount of the time at the back, resulting in a raucous atmosphere. This led to people feeling ambivalent towards LvG, as there was the recognition that he had a desire to improve the side in offensive forays as exemplified with obtaining Di Maria, and Falcao when United had Rooney, RVP, and Mata; concurrently, United were drawing criticism for being tedious where it mattered ... the pitch. Similarities can be drawn with Arsenal under Emery, who also spent periods excessively at the back during the build up. As illustrated by:

Arsenal fans would often be bemused to see the clock ticking whilst the players passing it amongst themselves in non threatening areas.

Furthermore, I believe Evans benefits from the fact he was only at United for two seasons in the post Fergie era. For many, Jones is indicative of the inconsistent United. With Jones, he's perhaps had greater highs in the post Fergie era as far as his standing amongst the fan base in concerned, with posters on this very site claiming (at the time of him being a starter under Mourinho) he was one of the best defenders in the league, whilst others were including him in an ideal starting xl with fantasy transfers. The bigger the crescendo, the greater the disappointment. The fall being his incessant injuries, and clumsy performances. The expectation led to frustration. Whereas, those like myself who weren't convinced by Jones during that period, have confirmation bias whenever he does poorly. So, that's huge groups set up to be underwhelmed by Jones. As a result, it makes Evans more appreciated in retrospect. The reality is that it shouldn't be a case of should Jones have stayed, instead of Evans? No, it should be a case that neither player should still be at the club.

 

[MikeKing]

I think Brown was the biggest talent along with Smalling. Both had that great combination of pace and steel. Both players were the types of defenders you look up to.

Evans and Jones, I've never really considered to be good enough. They've both had moments in their career that brought along some hype but it never stuck with me and disappeared quite quickly.

All the defenders have had bad moments and I think it's fair to have a thread like this to discuss it as they all belong in the same category. However, Brown and Smalling could always hold their own consistently even with injury troubles or lack of quality to play alongside. While Evans and Jones sadly always crumbled when relied upon, time and time again.

 

[rotherham_red]

Brown was perhaps the most naturally talented defender to come out of the club. Injuries ravaged him but it's a testament to how good he was that he still ended up being a top class RB in 2007/08 and he had a selection of brilliant performances in massive games for us before we finally bought Vidic.

Evans was not far off either, his issue was the colossal crisis of confidence he suffered after SAF left, from which he never recovered.

Smalling was good and developed amazingly considering where he came from, but was only ever going to be very good at best and wasn't at the level of Brown and Evans.

Jones was massively overrated though. He always looked a good footballer and top class athlete ahead of actually being good at defending per se.

Overall I'd put them in the order I considered them.

 

[Champagne Football]

did you ever watch evans play for united under LVG? likewise did you ever watch Smalling under LVG or under Mourinho in the season where we came 2nd in the league?

now if you're talking about the present, then evans may well be great for northern ireland, i dont watch them. but you cant deny what the roma fans have been saying about smalling at roma.

Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair and Cameron Borthwick-Jackson were all practically first XI players under Van Gaal. They all looked half decent under Van Gaal because the system we played meant that we basically bored the opposition to death with Carrick and Rooney passing the ball back and forth to each other all game, that defenders had very little to do.

Zaha and Evans were among the 2 best players in the squad, yet Van Gaal cast them off like they were garbage.

Using Van Gaal as a meter to measure how good a player was is a bit daft really.

Let's not forget that Van Gaal could have signed Virgil Van Dijk for peanuts from Celtic yet opted for Blind instead as a central defender. That tells you all you need to know about how much of a dinosaur he was.

 

[Sandikan]

Evans and Brown without contest. And among those 4 i rate Wes the most. I have soft spot on quick central defenders

Smalling is quicker than Evans though. And much better in the air and tackling.
Just isn't much good at passing it.

 

[Sandikan]

Brown clearly top
Jones clearly bottom. Unfortunate, both for a catalogue of injuries obliterating his potential, plus too much messing about of position early on.

Smalling had way more to him than Evans too, but was similar to him in having a major ricket in him. Obviously can't pass well either.

Evans is massively, massively hyped up by playing in good United teams next to all time great centre backs. He's Lindelöf or Lindelöf lite to me.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Still amazed people are surprised LvG sold Evans. He was dreadful and an absolute shell once Fergie left. He failed to step up, him and Smalling never really convinced for different reasons. Especially under LvG, Evans was horrendous, a big mistake every game when he got the trust and he fecked it up. He played like a guy from the u18

A lot of our players never stepped up once Fergie left, some have regressed a lot. Evans regained his form at Leicester, but who knows how much time he would have needed here if at all to be a starting CB. The only CB i currently rate that we have that is a sure starter is Maguire, the rest is replaceable.

To be fair Moyes made everyone terrible while Evans wasn't given a chance by LVG after the spit with Cisse incident. As soon as he left United & joined West Brom, he regained his form right away became integral in their defense, Pep even interested to sign him. So it wasn't at Leicester when he regained it. Leicester bought him because he was good at West Brom.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

did you ever watch evans play for united under LVG? likewise did you ever watch Smalling under LVG or under Mourinho in the season where we came 2nd in the league?

now if you're talking about the present, then evans may well be great for northern ireland, i dont watch them. but you cant deny what the roma fans have been saying about smalling at roma.

Evans wasn't even given enough chance by LVG. I remember that game against Newcastle the spit incident with Cisse, he was dropped since then and never play him.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Brown
Smalling
Evans
Jones

In that order.

this, for me.

i think with Wes, as much as injuries hampered his career, so did his easy going nature. Hard as nails and quick when he was on his game but often not switched on and a bit lacking in application, sometimes. Should’ve made a much bigger impact than he did but still, enjoyed watching him “Brown” many a player.

A fair bit of revisionism about Evans. Developed into a half decent cb and then plateaued. Then with the disruption, post Fergle, he just went downhill before recovering when out of the spotlight at wba.

 

[Ekeke]

Smalling>>> Evans = Brown > Jones

But what I will say is that at his best and in a match where he doesn't make an individual error Jones may have been first on the list. At his best he's been a very active and competitive CB winning the ball a lot for a CB and lots of duels, but his concentration has let him down.

He was very good in 14/15 and the disappointment is that most of the time in his United career, that simply hasnt been the case for him. He'd do well in 90% of the match and then make a mistake allowing a good chance.

Brown was the best of these CBs played at RB. Although Jones again did have a small period of time when used as RB where he was putting some good crosses into the box, after a while that quality was lost.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair and Cameron Borthwick-Jackson were all practically first XI players under Van Gaal. They all looked half decent under Van Gaal because the system we played meant that we basically bored the opposition to death with Carrick and Rooney passing the ball back and forth to each other all game, that defenders had very little to do.

Zaha and Evans were among the 2 best players in the squad, yet Van Gaal cast them off like they were garbage.

Using Van Gaal as a meter to measure how good a player was is a bit daft really.

Let's not forget that Van Gaal could have signed Virgil Van Dijk for peanuts from Celtic yet opted for Blind instead as a central defender. That tells you all you need to know about how much of a dinosaur he was.

I'm not saying Van Gaal was any good at United, he was a dinosaur. However, Evans played plenty at the start and he was fecking shite, he made Phil Jones look like Thiago Silva in comparison. I agree Zaha never got much of a chance but Evans had plenty of chances mate.

Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair ultimately didn't make it under LVG, I'm not sure either of them played much after that MK Dons game. Not sure why you are using that as an example.

Smalling was absolutely immense might I add in LVG's final season at United. Just about our player of the season.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Smalling>>> Evans = Brown > Jones

But what I will say is that at his best and in a match where he doesn't make an individual error Jones may have been first on the list. At his best he's been a very active and competitive CB winning the ball a lot for a CB and lots of duels, but his concentration has let him down.

He was very good in 14/15 and the disappointment is that most of the time in his United career, that simply hasnt been the case for him. He'd do well in 90% of the match and then make a mistake allowing a good chance.

Brown was the best of these CBs played at RB. Although Jones again did have a small period of time when used as RB where he was putting some good crosses into the box, after a while that quality was lost.

yeah this is true. if jones hardly ever made howlers of mistakes then he'd be much better. plus if he was more reliable fitness-wise. hes played some very good games for united. heck, he looked quite good at the start of the 17/18 season under Jose (where we were 4-0 FC and 6-1-0 after 7 games) partnered next to Bailly. Before he got injured...

 

[Champagne Football]

I'm not saying Van Gaal was any good at United, he was a dinosaur. However, Evans played plenty at the start and he was fecking shite, he made Phil Jones look like Thiago Silva in comparison. I agree Zaha never got much of a chance but Evans had plenty of chances mate.

Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair ultimately didn't make it under LVG, I'm not sure either of them played much after that MK Dons game. Not sure why you are using that as an example.

Smalling was absolutely immense might I add in LVG's final season at United. Just about our player of the season.

I like Smalling. He's a very good player. But strikes me as an Arsenal player. Good enough for a team finishing 5th or 6th every season. Maguire is a clear level above.
Like all players, Evans had his ups and downs. Evans was rock solid at Utd for a year or two partnering World class defenders like Vidic or Rio. He had been at Utd a long time and needed a fresh challenge no doubt. Himself and Smalling are probably on a par with each other. No way is Smalling better than Evans but they're probably about equal.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Evans was a very good player. Van Gaal made some shocking decisions, but I think Evans was the big one.

It's not to say we would have fared any better or worse, but our defence definitely wouldn't have been as poor, particularly when trying to play with the ball on the ground.

 

[harms]

I prefer Brown on the right. Evans probably had the best consistent level out of the four, it’s just that he never grew up to become a leader and looked lost without Rio or Vida next to him. Smalling was (and is) a good defender with poor positioning, and probably the least talented out of the lot. Good enough for a mid table team and, at his best, can play for a team from top-4, but his weaknesses are too obvious to call him a top CB. Young Jones was fantastic, but somehow he managed not only to lose his natural pace, but also somehow became even more rash and stupid on the pitch (while you’d expect decision-making to improve as a player grows older). I also loved his surges forward, but he completely forgot how to do that.

Evans
Brown
Smalling
Jones

 

[Skills]

I prefer Brown on the right. Evans probably had the best consistent level out of the four, it’s just that he never grew up to become a leader and looked lost without Rio or Vida next to him. Smalling was (and is) a good defender with poor positioning, and probably the least talented out of the lot. Good enough for a mid table team and, at his best, can play for a team from top-4, but his weaknesses are too obvious to call him a top CB. Young Jones was fantastic, but somehow he managed not only to lose his natural pace, but also somehow became even more rash and stupid on the pitch (while you’d expect decision-making to improve as a player grows older). I also loved his surges forward, but he completely forgot how to do that.

Evans
Brown
Smalling
Jones

I'd love to know what your definition of talent is

 

[NinjaFletch]

Smalling>>> Evans = Brown > Jones

I'm sorry to hear about your memory problems.

 

[Ekeke]

I'm sorry to hear about your memory problems.

I remember very well how many individual errors Brown and Silvestre were making together before we signed Rio.

 

[harms]

I'd love to know what your definition of talent is

It’s not really defined, it’s always more of a feeling. I think that Smalling’s strengths are mostly connected to his physicality (he’s tall, strong and fast, which makes him good in the air and capable of catching up with fast attackers), but I never saw him as a potentially top center back — he’s horrible with the ball, quite poor positionally and sometimes prone to misjudging his own limitations. He was very consistent at his level, and ended up better than Jones, but I never saw a room for him to grow.

Young Jones had some amazing performances, and some quite awful ones. Fergie’s Edwards comparison looked funny even then, but there was a potential for him to become someone great if only he was able to improve his decision-making... which he didn’t. Brown, I think, was also named (by Fergie?) the most naturally gifted defender that he had seen. But he was haunted by injuries and never lived up to our expectations. Evans also looked great when he first broke through, especially when he was battling with Drogba... but he had a luxury of playing with peak Vida and Rio more than any other three, I think.

 

[Ekeke]

It’s not really defined, it’s always more of a feeling. I think that Smalling’s strengths are mostly connected to his physicality (he’s tall, strong and fast, which makes him good in the air and capable of catching up with fast attackers), but I never saw him as a potentially top center back — he’s horrible with the ball, quite poor positionally and sometimes prone to misjudging his own limitations. He was very consistent at his level, and ended up better than Jones, but I never saw a room for him to grow.

Young Jones had some amazing performances, and some quite awful ones. Fergie’s Edwards comparison looked funny even then, but there was a potential for him to become someone great if only he was able to improve his decision-making... which he didn’t. Brown, I think, was also named (by Fergie?) the most naturally gifted defender that he had seen. But he was haunted by injuries and never lived up to our expectations. Evans also looked great when he first broke through, especially when he was battling with Drogba... but he had a luxury of playing with peak Vida and Rio more than any other three, I think.

I'd have to disagree. He has the most innate and natural ability as a CB out of all of them, while Brown and Jones match or are better athletes. They are more aggressive while being just as fast and strong, they make a lot more bad choices with how to defend a situation. Smalling is obviously a better athlete than Evans but thats the only one.

 

[Skills]

It’s not really defined, it’s always more of a feeling. I think that Smalling’s strengths are mostly connected to his physicality (he’s tall, strong and fast, which makes him good in the air and capable of catching up with fast attackers), but I never saw him as a potentially top center back — he’s horrible with the ball, quite poor positionally and sometimes prone to misjudging his own limitations. He was very consistent at his level, but I never saw a room for him to grow.

Young Jones has some amazing performances, and some quite awful ones. Fergie’s Edwards comparison looked funny even then, but there was a potential for him to become someone great if only he was able to improve his decision-making... which he didn’t. Brown, I think, was also named (by Fergie?) the most naturally gifted defender that he had seen. But he was haunted by injuries and never lived up to our expectations. Evans also looked great when he first broke through, especially when he was battling with Drogba... but he had a luxury of playing with peak Vida and Rio more than any other three, I think.

Only football hipsters can somehow turn physical abilities into a sign of a lack of ability. Smalling was not only quicker, he was far, far better in the air - and that's not just because he was bigger. He was also a much, much better tackler and why he thrived in a high line.

Positioning isn't a talent when it somehow only appears when you're partnered with an ATG center half in a well drilled unit.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Brown was much more talented than the rest of them and would have been up there with Rio, Vidic etc if not for injuries. Maybe not quite that level but close. The rest are on the same level. Pros and cons to each but all decent defenders on their day. Even Jones bar the injuries.

 

[Ekeke]

Brown was much more talented than the rest of them and would have been up there with Rio, Vidic etc if not for injuries. Maybe not quite that level but close. The rest are on the same level. Pros and cons to each but all decent defenders on their day. Even Jones bar the injuries.

Jones and Smalling had injuries too

 

[harms]

I'd have to disagree. He has the most innate and natural ability as a CB out of all of them, while Brown and Jones match or are better athletes. They are more aggressive while being just as fast and strong, they make a lot more bad choices with how to defend a situation. Smalling is obviously a better athlete than Evans but thats the only one.

Fair enough, I'm not going trying to present my opinion as a fact.

Only football hipsters can somehow turn physical abilities into a sign of a lack of ability. Smalling was not only quicker, he was far, far better in the air - and that's not just because he was bigger.

Well, both Jones and Brown are 1,85m tall and Smalling is 1,94m (according to Premier League's website). I'd say that this is a significant advantage. And you are also misquoting me, I was answering to you about talent, and you now say that I was talking about ability — which, in this context, are pretty much the opposites.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Only football hipsters can somehow turn physical abilities into a sign of a lack of ability. Smalling was not only quicker, he was far, far better in the air - and that's not just because he was bigger. He was also a much, much better tackler and why he thrived in a high line.

Positioning isn't a talent when it somehow only appears when you're partnered with an ATG center half in a well drilled unit.

The ability that he has is asset, doesn't mean it's the same as talent. Physical ability is such an overrated to judge defenders. Without brain, you can't be called good defender and without technique & leadership skills but just pure physical ability also can't be called more talented. Smalling was a pro judo before and was about to joined a University in business industry before being spotted late, he started late as pro footballer. His physical gifted is outstanding and led him into pro footballer and start learning since then, but, he was never seen as talented one even throughout his time at United.

 

[Lennon7]

Brown
Smalling
Evans
Jones

With some distance between each. Smalling is a great centre back and think he would be immense next to Maguire. Brown easily the best player there. Evans was decent and is decent now for a high flying Leicester side but is quite limited, and Jones is dog shite.

 

[Bobski]

Brown was around at a time when England were blessed with exceptional CB talent so it can be easy to overlook him. Unfortunately he never filled his potential, injuries held him back, and to my eye his balance was never quite as good after they started, left him to prone to struggling with his agility and having moments of clumsiness. When he first came through his ability and composure on the ball was exciting but that was something that also tailed off over the years, and he wasn't exceptional in the air. He did have excellent strength, speed and his reading of the game was advanced, positioning was very good even as a kid breaking through.

Feels like wasted potential though, the same as Jones who as a young player was shaping up to be a quicker version of what Maguire is, sad how his career has fallen apart, really hope we can find a move for him and he can play enough to salvage his career somewhat. He was a big talent, Capello, Fergie and Hodgson rated him highly for a reason.

Evans and Smalling both reached their potential, good players with flaws. Evans a little too weak, and Smalling lacking polish.

 

[Isotope]

Brown had never been our main CB for a long period of time to have him at the top of the list, nor had shown better outside United.
Smalling and Evans have proven enough as top CBs at PL level (and Smalling also on Serie A).

I'd have:
1. Smalling
2. Evans
3. Brown, Jones

Judging by their careers, I'd have Smalling and Evans as our centerbacks than other combo for United. Potential is meaningless if you're not reliable.

 

[spontaneus1]

Evan's was shite here, never had the mentality to deal with the pressure. His performance in the 6-1 to city might genuinely be the worst performance I've seen from any centre half for united ever.

Was essentially a more elegant version of Jones.

 

[Class of 63]

Evan's was shite here, never had the mentality to deal with the pressure. His performance in the 6-1 to city might genuinely be the worst performance I've seen from any centre half for united ever.

Was essentially a more elegant version of Jones.

Was he feck as like, Evans problem was whenever he came back from one of his many injuries he was never afforded the same time other players were to get back up to speed(and as a friggin big unit it would obviously take longer) and he was slaughtered for every single mistake when he needed supporting most, yet fat-boy Rooney was allowed to wobble about for 5 or 6 games looking like a pub player while he tried to get his fitness back and by'n'large was backed to the hilt.

Was disgusted at how some of our match-going fans turned on Evans, more so as an Academy Grad, it was a definite sea-change from what had gone before.

 

[berbatrick]

Jones is obviously at the bottom. Not that strong or tall, not that great at positioning or decision making. Recovery speed and occasionally last-ditch tackles are/were his only standout feature.

Evans is better but there were many games with him partering either Rio or Vidic where the goal usually came from his side. And his bottom level was horrendous.
I really liked Brown in 07/08, the best individual season that any of these have had. Don't remember him much from 06/07 and haven't seen much before that.
Smalling was consistent for a few seasons. Also has questionable decision making at times, but he is strong, tall, and fast, physically he's easily the best of the four.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Evans is an odd case.
His breakthrough year and following seasons, he was that good. Was it confidence of playing alongside many strong players and motivation to succeed?
Then later seasons, he slumped. Was it complacency or/and loss of motivation and confidence?

He's definitely talented, and even performed in big games. Limited physically and with his pace, but often efficient in dealing with any attackers. He can even held on his own even against big players eg. Drogba, and a bit suspect vs pacy players yet his positioning is good at dealing against them, also knows what to do eg. when gk when out of the line, he went to the goal line to cover -- basic 101 defending. But of course, he has his weaknesses.

It's possible teams notice those many weaknesses and took advantages and measures to exploit it, which may explain his huge dip in performances at later seasons, but I'm more incline towards him getting more and more complacent.

At his best, he's really that good at CB -- he doesn't need his strong senior partner eg. Rio or Vidic to bail him out.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

1. Smalling Beast mode
2. Evans (breakthrough years)
3. Brown*

4. Smalling

5. Evans
6. Jones

Spoiler: NOTE

*I don't rate Brown at CB especially in big games, fine vs mid-table/low level teams, but always high risk. Turn out he's so good at RB. I think that's his best and a more natural position, alternative is as the RCB in a 3-CBs formation/system. Brown is always suspect in the air and vs physical strikers, easily lost. Smalling's normal form is too prone in making mistake, as does Evans' later years. SAF like to put Jones further away from CB didn't he.