If Liverpool are awarded the league can we get awarded the europa and fa double, seeing as we were favs to win both just like Liverpool.
Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th
- Thread starter Tarrou
- Start date
Voiding it does scre some over too. In fact it screws United over a lot
My preference is season is finished but if it is not void the thing cause just cause s team is in X position now it doesn't mean they earned it until it's over.
For example if Liverpool are awarded title or Chelsea 4th then Nowrich should be relegated in the same precedent set.
No great options tbh.
My preference is season is finished but if it is not void the thing cause just cause s team is in X position now it doesn't mean they earned it until it's over.
For example if Liverpool are awarded title or Chelsea 4th then Nowrich should be relegated in the same precedent set.
No great options tbh.
Not so sure about Arsenal and Spurs, I think if anything happens now it will mean the Dutch model, which still means no CL for them. However, you could probably replace them with Leicester and Chelsea who would benefit. After that, I would add Bournemouth, Watford, Villa, Brighton, and City to that list of certain to want to curtail/Dutch model as those teams are either in danger of relegation or have no real benefit from playing on (City).
Further to this, I would say Newcastle, Everton, Palace, Southampton and Burnley have no real skin in the game and so a restart under such conditions would not benefit them/be worth the risk.
That just leaves Utd, Dippers, Sheff Utd, Spurs, Arsenal and Wolves who would benefit from a continuation of the league but, even then, some of those teams are unlikely to benefit by much.
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And here we go...
At the time The Sun (why?) article was posted, Sambia had been out of coma for multiple days and breathing independently again, just so you know.
Let's start tomorrow then in that case. Sounds legit.
Yep, that's what I was suggesting. Glad to see you're catching on.
Just seen quite a few people want to get rid of this rule when they don’t even live in the UK - which is odd as it doesn’t affect them.
I'm sure he could play in goal with an oxygen tank near by. Anything to get football back up again. Could even try the old Dettol injections as mandatory.
This happens on the eve of a match, it does not go ahead
You were quoting an outdated article, and an article that added nothing (they are concerned about player safety? MY GOD) and then added "here we go..." as if you somewhat, I dunno, magically predicted as some sort of genius that not continuing the season is a possibility? Your post added literally nothing at all.
I get you. I think some of this is already happening though in the opposite direction: fake news has a strong role to play in peoples minds with pseudo science, false medical advise, miss placed nationalism, miss representation of history and so on. During this pandemic i've seen people that did not believe the virus is real, that it's a Bill Gates conspiracy, 5G and other such "opinions". I'm far more worried of a real life version of the movie "Idiocracy" then a dystopian government that rules with an iron fist. I can't wait to watch the spectacle made by the anti vaxxers once we have the vaccine for COVID.
there is close to zero chance of Spurms and Arsenal getting CL qualification next year.
let’s eradicate this terminology “null and void”. The European league places will be determined by league places - if they go ahead
whether there is promotion and relegation is a separate matter, which I don’t believe will happen.
one of Arsenal and spurms May net into the EL if City are banned next season from the CL.
That's just too difficult to imagine.
Because until the current table is completed, that’s the status quo. It doesn’t matter where any of the clubs are now because there are 8 games left. You can’t take an unfinished league and just assume the outcome of the remaining games, and I say that as a supporter of a club that stands to lose out. We were in great form and could have made 3rd. If it was up to me, we’d finish the season. But it’s not, and a massive plague came along that no-one wanted. It sucks, but that’s where we are.
Less so than the alternative. With a voided season, you have no definitive decisions on relegations, promotions and everything reverts back to last May. Less than ideal? Sure. Better than assuming who should get relegated based on 3/4 of the games required to do it fairly? Definitely.
Somebody is going to lose out come what may, that's unavoidable.
But voiding is the least bad option. Voiding essentially rolls the clock back to the last point in time that we could fairly make a judgement on a team's position, the start of the season. Any other method involves either making guesses about what results might have been (impossible given footballs unpredictability) or basing a team's final position on a shortened season when they haven't played the same teams. Money and power might dictate otherwise, but voiding would be the closest to a fair choice in simple sporting terms.
I don't know about that. I understand the reasoning, but by 75% of the season being completed, it seems less unfair to base the final standing off of that rather than take 75% of hard work all away to 0%. Less than ideal, sure - but teams have had from August till March to end up in the position they're currently in, so while it would be unfair on some, it would be fair to others. Voiding would mean unfair to some, and letting teams off the hook for others. You'd reward teams for being bad and punish teams which were good. In the other scenario, you'd reward teams for being good and punish teams who didn't do enough during that 75% of their work.
I wouldn't give two fecks either way if Liverpool wasn't top, mind you.
That is damn worrying both if the testing is wrong, or if he's actually had it multiple times.
In the latter case it could mean there is no herd immunity until a vaccine
You keep saying that you understand the reasoning, but i doubt you do.
The difference in points between relegation and survival is feck all, to the point that if this had happened two rounds earlier it would be West Ham and Watford in the bottom 3 instead of Bournemouth and Aston Villa. Given the difference in fixtures, it's laughable to hide behind the idea of teams not doing enough during those xx%
Voiding is acknowledging that this season can't be finished due to extreme circumstances, and that the league table can't be determined on the basis of large variations in fixtures.
We easily could have finished 4th/ 5th and got into the CL if the league wasn't stopped. Three wins in a row, one defeat in eleven. We were one of the form sides of the league.
Honestly think they will take the seasons standings as is for Europe, cancel promotion and relegation, then what happens to the title really is anyones guess
I can go on what you say though right? So if you say it's hollow and worthless then my point is maybe it shouldn't count and maybe Liverpool should hand it back?
If LFC and their fans count it then comments like worthless and hollow are utter BS surely
I don't think they'll relegate anyone, I'm just given counter arguments as to why it wouldn't be fair to void it either, like some seem to be thinking. None of the outcomes will be fair.
It's not laughable by the way - I'd have no sympathy for the likes of Norwich if they complained about being relegated now, and they would indeed be majorly let off the hook with a decision of no promotions/relegations (which comes back to my earlier point, that no promotions wouldn't be fair on West Brom and Leeds either).
Better than starting a new season when you cannot finish the current one.
We can't play 9 games so lets play 38 instead.
Surely the answer is simply to void it and ensure the teams that play in Europe don't reap the massive financial benefits they usually do. In the long run it's the finances that make the real difference. The competitions simply can't be completed, so we have no choice but to the void them. Very harsh on Leeds etc and great for Norwich, but it's no one's fault (in football at least) this pandemic happened, so we just have to accept that we were unable to complete the competitions we started so they might as well have not happened. The only remaining issue is who gets to play in Europe and reap the massive financial benefits. So if we use last years top 4 or the current top 4, it should be endured the clubs that do play in the competition have to redistribute some of the money to those who miss out. There is no way Spurs or Arsenal should get such a huge financial benefit if we go on last seasons places and likewise the same in true for Chelsea this year. The teams currently in 4th to 8th should get a cut also, so any financial advantage the likes of Cheslea or Leicester receive is greatly diminished.
I don’t really see how. You’re saying that 75% is closer to 100% than 0%, which makes it a fairer way of doing things. But in terms of delegating prizes and sanctions it has to be all or nothing. How many league titles, or relegations have been decided on the final game, never mind the final 8 games?
Let’s say for arguments sake that Liverpool were a point behind city with 8 games to play, would you still be ok just calling it as it lies? Would you say Liverpool had 30 games, they should have done more when they had the chance?
Yeah you didn’t understand that exchange at all did you.Better than starting a new season when you cannot finish the current one.
We can't play 9 games so lets play 38 instead.
It wouldn't bother me if the club decided to do that and if I'm being brutally honest it wouldn't feel like a real title win to me. No celebration, no parade, no fanfare. All a bit meh imo.
Whilst i would be unfair on Leeds, etc, I can't see them promoting if they don't relegate. Expanding the league to 23 is hard enough, deciding which 3 should go up is even more difficult.
I could understand that they declared the current standings as final, yes. I could also understand if they voided the whole thing.
It would be unfortunate, sure. But what can you do except shrugging your shoulders and accept it? I've seen so many posts "they can't do that because of this or that" when in reality they can make any decision they want and we'd just have to accept it anyway. These are exceptional times, and any outcome will be an anomaly as well. People saying "you can't have a winner if you don't complete a full season" don't seem to understand that these are once in a lifetime circumstances to which we need to adapt and be creative to come up with a solution.
I think these people understand the circumstances, they just want to see fairness upheld. Reverting back to last May is basically saying, we could not fairly decide the winners and losers, so it isn’t fair to assume who would’ve won or lost.
Led by the west ham manager who would gain from their poor season been cancelled, how surprising.
Well, rest assured they'd be beating a different drum if Utd was in Liverpool's position, instead of taking the holier than thou approach I've seen from some.
Same for me. Given the state of the world I'm surprised anyone actually thinks football will be taking place during the winter months. I'm pretty sure any sort of normality will have to be paused then like it is now.
Add in more than half of next season will likely be BCD and it remains more souless than the remainder of this season if that ever gets played.
I can’t say for certain but I’d like to think I wouldn’t be putting our own potential success over the guaranteed shit sandwich we’d be handing to the clubs who happen to be in the bottom 3 that particular week. They both should go hand in hand.
Like I said, I don’t want the season voided either. We still had a lot to play for ourselves, and if it was up to me we’d find a way to see out all games before the next season begins. I just don’t think it’s fair to have any finality to it when all games are not yet decided.
Would have to include Man City also on your principles. Teams currently in the top 4 would need a clear advantage going into these playoffs. Goal per point advantage or something. As whilst someone like Arsenal could catch us, its also very unlikely, so the odds would have to be stacked so its very unlikely Arsenal would get in over us via the playoffs.
if we assume the league is not finishing, it doesn’t matter about form.
Utd were in good form, and I’d definitely bet on them ahead of arsenal for4th. favourites for the EL as well.
moreover, the point was that there is no chance the PL are going back to 18/19 and using those finishing places for Europe. Ergo meaning Arsenal and spurms don’t qualify.
I suspect that treating teams in a fair and equal way will have little to do with the PL's ultimate decision. Especially as what's fair is a subjective opinion and the idea of treating teams completely equally went out the window once UEFA ruled that CL/EL places had to be decided based on sporting merit from an incomplete and unbalanced 19/20 season.
The real questions are what works best financially and what causes the least difficulties. Whatever the decision, it will be a pragmatic one.
In terms of relegation/promotion, I very strongly suspect that will see both being cancelled. For the simple reason that cancelling both (in theory) leaves no team worse off then they were at the start of the season, whereas relegation based on an incomplete season would. The former is generally a lot less of a headache.
In terms of Liverpool being awarded the title, it seems a lot more vague to me. What are the practical pros and cons? The main con I can think of is that it sets a precedent, which could be an issue at a time when there are serious doubts about the ability to complete the 20/21 season entirely. The main pro I can think of is that establishing that there will definitely be a champion in situations like this will ensure that people are invested in a 20/21 season regardless of any surrounding doubts, as opposed to thinking it might all count for nothing anyway. Beyond that it doesn't really carry the same weight as decisions around promotion or relegation, I think.
The real questions are what works best financially and what causes the least difficulties. Whatever the decision, it will be a pragmatic one.
In terms of relegation/promotion, I very strongly suspect that will see both being cancelled. For the simple reason that cancelling both (in theory) leaves no team worse off then they were at the start of the season, whereas relegation based on an incomplete season would. The former is generally a lot less of a headache.
In terms of Liverpool being awarded the title, it seems a lot more vague to me. What are the practical pros and cons? The main con I can think of is that it sets a precedent, which could be an issue at a time when there are serious doubts about the ability to complete the 20/21 season entirely. The main pro I can think of is that establishing that there will definitely be a champion in situations like this will ensure that people are invested in a 20/21 season regardless of any surrounding doubts, as opposed to thinking it might all count for nothing anyway. Beyond that it doesn't really carry the same weight as decisions around promotion or relegation, I think.
pretty much this. It’s the most sensible option, and quite frankly no champions
At the start, yes - have no doubt about that. However, the vast majority would have come to round where we are now - that the Dutch model is the best option, and it’s ridiculous to award a title to a team that didn’t win in.
But let’s be frank the cross section of Liverpool fans posting in this forum are by and large utterly deluded and not grounded in reality. I would hope Utd fans have a greater grasp on the situation that the dozen or so Liverpool fans in this thread who are mostly just creating fan fiction.
Sigh - I'm talking to a guy here who thinks it's funny to say "Spurms" instead of "Spurs" yet you think your fan base would have a better grasp on the situation. Sure thing mate.