Yeah, in the end everyone measures up to the standard of their time.
The same way a good contemporary composer transported back 250 years would probably be the most revolutionary musical figure of all times. But his or her skill is ultimately built upon the work & innovations of those that came before.
Football always looks worse when the pitches are poorer, the boots are twice or three times as heavy, and the ball is an unresponsive heavy lump of dough. No player from any era can demonstrate 'quick feet' with the old boots and crappy ball.I’m one of those that subscribe to the view that all footballers worse worse the further back you go. Even the very greatest players. When I watch old footage of them they all look a little rubbish. I’ve never ever seen a player in black and white who looks better than Eden Hazard for example, who is not the best in the world under any metric. Only a few greats genuinely look like they would be the best players today to me.
Yes, the difference is massive. One funny thing about old matches is the kind of stuff defenders get away with inside their own penalty box. They could blatantly foul a player and still have a decent chance of not getting a call against them.Some people seem to be only looking at it in one way. Put modern players back in the past in their current state and they would be massively hampered.
They are not used to playing with far heavier balls, far rougher pitches, far more physical play (the tiniest touch wins a freekick now, but not in the past). It was a completely different game.
Apologies for the old bump but I remember watching Eric warm up and he was doing a series of outrageous outside of the boot flicks some of them 20m in the air and then just carrying it on.Yes and no.
Dimi has a highlight reel of outrageous first touches that always seem to get pulled out. Principally because eversingle touch he had was recorded.
Eric had a better first touch. I saw that guy do stuff that would be EVERYWHERE in the modern game. Clips tweeted and retweeted instantly. But far less of it was recorded.
I never understand the need to downgrade past players to elevate the present.
Why has crossing gone to shit though? I've watched lots of 90s highlights videos and the crossing was amazing. Modern players except for a few make crossing look hard as feck.
The citing of Hazard is quite interesting here because I thought the general idea was that he isn't much cop. When he's fit and can be bothered the guy is a talent even Seamus Coleman might struggle against. And G Best would give Coleman a few problems I think.
It was interesting what David Ginola said when talking about creativity in football in the modern game, compared to that of the past; about the development of strict systems restricting instinct and intuition and decreasing the entertainment value of the game. It was interesting that someone earlier mentioned the classic no.10 no longer being a prevalent part of the modern game. That kind of mercurial, smooth-as-shit genial type. Platini, Laudrup, Rui Costa, etc.
Start at 5 minutes in.
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
Of course, goalkeeping appears to be comparatively poor. It is. Goalkeepers, rather like outfield players, are now athletes. Comparing eras is always difficult, in part due to the development of sports science. Great goalkeepers were still great back then, particularly in comparison to their then-rivals, but they’re also objectively worse than what they are now. Admitting that doesn’t devalue the worth of your footballing knowledge base.
I’d also argue that footballers from previous generations have the luxury of forgotten mistakes. Footballers haven’t been able to hide for over a decade, particularly since the inception of social media.
Look back at some of the absolute howler mistakes Schmeichel made, if DDG made some of those now it would be talked about for weeks. Luckily Everton aside he hasn't made too many.Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
Of course, goalkeeping appears to be comparatively poor. It is. Goalkeepers, rather like outfield players, are now athletes. Comparing eras is always difficult, in part due to the development of sports science. Great goalkeepers were still great back then, particularly in comparison to their then-rivals, but they’re also objectively worse than what they are now. Admitting that doesn’t devalue the worth of your footballing knowledge base.
I’d also argue that footballers from previous generations have the luxury of forgotten mistakes. Footballers haven’t been able to hide for over a decade, particularly since the inception of social media.
Like in every position, modern players are much better than the players back then. Just that because of the nostalgia, we have to overrate the legends in comparison with the modern players.
Apologies for the old bump but I remember watching Eric warm up and he was doing a series of outrageous outside of the boot flicks some of them 20m in the air and then just carrying it on.
Mind blowing.
If someone can find a gif of that it would be great !
I think that one was before we played Arsenal at OT. When Giggs did that ridiculous (but pointless) piece of skill by the touch line heading towards the box, going between two players.
They cut to Eric Warming up as Andy Gray had spotted it.
I remember that!! Winterburn was the player facing him I think.
My brother and I practiced that for ages after we’d seen it.
I also remember (i think) Schmikes throwing the ball out to Eric and he controlled with kind of back flick... Thought it was during game. Never found footage since.I think that one was before we played Arsenal at OT. When Giggs did that ridiculous (but pointless) piece of skill by the touch line heading towards the box, going between two players.
They cut to Eric Warming up as Andy Gray had spotted it.
Didn’t Schmeichel save a similar one in CL (Austria ??)Whilst I think there is a lot of truth in your post, on the other hand, it is difficult to envisage superior athletic performance from a keeper, than this Banks effort from 1970 (50 years ago).
Didn’t Schmeichel save a similar one in CL (Austria ??)
Didn’t Schmeichel save a similar one in CL (Austria ??)
The best keeper I ever saw at United. The only keeper i'd take over him was a in form Neuer if i'm honest.Thanks for sharing, mate - I'd forgotten that one and it is truly a pleasure to see it again
Both crazy good saves.. Strange on the similarity..That was an excellent save, not least because he had to get down to ground level, quite close to his feet - requiring a high degree of agility, whilst Gordon Banks crossed the whole goal (a feat in itself), so there was more space/distance to get down low - both are excellent examples of why top class keepers of any age are top class.
Bobby Charlton and George Best would struggle to get into the current United side ahead of those modern athletes Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard according to @Rozay
Pat Jennings and Robatz Breelcreyum?Despite the fact they are both know for being incredible shot stoppers, I don’t think you could find two goalkeepers more different than Schmeichel and De Gea are in both style and personality.
Bobby Charlton and George Best would struggle to get into the current United side ahead of those modern athletes Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard according to @Rozay
Where is that ‘according to Rozay’? Stop talking shit.
Who's the oldest footballer that you think would be world class even if he played today?I’m one of those that subscribe to the view that all footballers worse worse the further back you go. Even the very greatest players. When I watch old footage of them they all look a little rubbish. I’ve never ever seen a player in black and white who looks better than Eden Hazard for example, who is not the best in the world under any metric. Only a few greats genuinely look like they would be the best players today to me.
Watching Sky Sports football goals of the season from 96/97 on YouTube and few things crossed my mind;
- The amount of goals scored against United that featured.
- The amount of times big Pete got chipped.
- The amount of lobs or chips in general.
- And the utter state of the goalkeeping. I swear half the shots taken and scored would be, no joke, caught by modern day keepers.
Not only in the league but watched a replay of the 1996 FA Cup match between the Chavs and us (boredom) and likewise Schmeichel was chipped again. Also noticed how deadly Cole looked and how we were able to blow teams away with ease.
Bored out of my mind but the one thing holding back old teams in my opinion in the "older versus newer teams/era debates" is the appalling goalkeeping.
Thoughts?
My thoughts are you have created possibly the worst thread on red cafe.