State of old goalkeepers.
- Thread starter Murder on Zidane's Floor
- Start date
Yea absolutely. It’s hard to make direct comparisons. As you said, football evolves, and today’s players have built upon the work of previous generations.
Context needs to be applied to give players of older generations their due praise I think. Video clip for video clip, they don’t necessarily look better than many more recent players, but back then, people couldn’t get near them.
It's the one position that has truly evolved over the years. A lot of the footage you'll see from pre-1970 shows fairly error-prone keeping as the norm. Even over the last 20 years, the agility, size and reach of the modern keeper has moved up a gear.
Still I agree with the point that keepers reflect their era. The two best keepers of the 1990s in Kahn and Schmeichel reflected the era in which they played: physical, aggressive, proactive in 1v1s and meeting crosses. They were built more robustly as a result. Today the physical profile is rangier and springier and they have to be much better on the ball instead.
Still I agree with the point that keepers reflect their era. The two best keepers of the 1990s in Kahn and Schmeichel reflected the era in which they played: physical, aggressive, proactive in 1v1s and meeting crosses. They were built more robustly as a result. Today the physical profile is rangier and springier and they have to be much better on the ball instead.
Football always looks worse when the pitches are poorer, the boots are twice or three times as heavy, and the ball is an unresponsive heavy lump of dough. No player from any era can demonstrate 'quick feet' with the old boots and crappy ball.
Keepers needing to be good with their feet is a bit of a myth these days. Unless youre in a Pep side nobody really plays out that much from Keeper out.
Allison isnt Cruyff turning in his box or picking out the winger 40 yards out. Hell I would put Peters throws against any of Courtois passes
Allison isnt Cruyff turning in his box or picking out the winger 40 yards out. Hell I would put Peters throws against any of Courtois passes
Peter Schmeichel was the best keeper the Prem has ever seen - not just my opinion: Shearer, Lineker and Wright (and lots more I guess) agree
It's like all these mistakes of DDG in the last 2 years never happened. And Pickford is a clown.
It is different with your defence not pressing up to halfway trying to play offside.
And teams defending in and by the MF is much better now and better organised.
I could also easily say that Allisson and Oblak don't look that special to me either. Who are all these 21st century wonder keepers?
Are they better than Peter Cech at his peak? Or VDS, or Shilton making his 1971 save vs Scotland. You don't see that every week.
It is different with your defence not pressing up to halfway trying to play offside.
And teams defending in and by the MF is much better now and better organised.
I could also easily say that Allisson and Oblak don't look that special to me either. Who are all these 21st century wonder keepers?
Are they better than Peter Cech at his peak? Or VDS, or Shilton making his 1971 save vs Scotland. You don't see that every week.
The citing of Hazard is quite interesting here because I thought the general idea was that he isn't much cop. When he's fit and can be bothered the guy is a talent even Seamus Coleman might struggle against. And G Best would give Coleman a few problems I think.
Some people seem to be only looking at it in one way. Put modern players back in the past in their current state and they would be massively hampered.
They are not used to playing with far heavier balls, far rougher pitches, far more physical play (the tiniest touch wins a freekick now, but not in the past). It was a completely different game.
They are not used to playing with far heavier balls, far rougher pitches, far more physical play (the tiniest touch wins a freekick now, but not in the past). It was a completely different game.
Performance enhancing drugs are also getting more sophisticated and harder to detect.
Yes, the difference is massive. One funny thing about old matches is the kind of stuff defenders get away with inside their own penalty box. They could blatantly foul a player and still have a decent chance of not getting a call against them.
Apologies for the old bump but I remember watching Eric warm up and he was doing a series of outrageous outside of the boot flicks some of them 20m in the air and then just carrying it on.
Mind blowing.
If someone can find a gif of that it would be great !
3 things probably
Fewer teams have 2 out and out strikers racing into the box
The role of the winger being able to take it wide and cross on their strong side has massively dropped - all this inverted nonsense
Watching the Barcelona-esque teams who never ever crossed it, at best passing accurately into feet in the box
Lower leagues still pump the crosses in though, but it's more physical down there
Just a few ......
What some of the proponents of modern fitness levels and defensive tactics seem to fail to appreciate is that G Best's close control, awesome acceleration and ability to ride tackles would cause any defender from any era severe problems, also Maradona and the latest in the line L Messi. G Best playing today would cause so many yellow cards and win a hatful of penalties under modern laws/ref's interpretations.
It was interesting what David Ginola said when talking about creativity in football in the modern game, compared to that of the past; about the development of strict systems restricting instinct and intuition and decreasing the entertainment value of the game. It was interesting that someone earlier mentioned the classic no.10 no longer being a prevalent part of the modern game. That kind of mercurial, smooth-as-shit genial type. Platini, Laudrup, Rui Costa, etc.
Start at 5 minutes in.
Start at 5 minutes in.
Yep, I think while football has "improved" in a statistical sense, some of the magic has been lost where players have become a bit too athletic and robotic.
Games are a lot more tactical and structured now and have little room for a off the cuff genius.
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
Of course, goalkeeping appears to be comparatively poor. It is. Goalkeepers, rather like outfield players, are now athletes. Comparing eras is always difficult, in part due to the development of sports science. Great goalkeepers were still great back then, particularly in comparison to their then-rivals, but they’re also objectively worse than what they are now. Admitting that doesn’t devalue the worth of your footballing knowledge base.
I’d also argue that footballers from previous generations have the luxury of forgotten mistakes. Footballers haven’t been able to hide for over a decade, particularly since the inception of social media.
Of course, goalkeeping appears to be comparatively poor. It is. Goalkeepers, rather like outfield players, are now athletes. Comparing eras is always difficult, in part due to the development of sports science. Great goalkeepers were still great back then, particularly in comparison to their then-rivals, but they’re also objectively worse than what they are now. Admitting that doesn’t devalue the worth of your footballing knowledge base.
I’d also argue that footballers from previous generations have the luxury of forgotten mistakes. Footballers haven’t been able to hide for over a decade, particularly since the inception of social media.
Whilst I think there is a lot of truth in your post, on the other hand, it is difficult to envisage superior athletic performance from a keeper, than this Banks effort from 1970 (50 years ago).
Look back at some of the absolute howler mistakes Schmeichel made, if DDG made some of those now it would be talked about for weeks. Luckily Everton aside he hasn't made too many.
What’s your evidence base for this statement?
I think that one was before we played Arsenal at OT. When Giggs did that ridiculous (but pointless) piece of skill by the touch line heading towards the box, going between two players.
They cut to Eric Warming up as Andy Gray had spotted it.
I remember that!! Winterburn was the player facing him I think.
My brother and I practiced that for ages after we’d seen it.
I think it was in the 1993 Cantona Free Kick game. Maybe.
I also remember (i think) Schmikes throwing the ball out to Eric and he controlled with kind of back flick... Thought it was during game. Never found footage since.
Didn’t Schmeichel save a similar one in CL (Austria ??)
That was an excellent save, not least because he had to get down to ground level, quite close to his feet - requiring a high degree of agility, whilst Gordon Banks crossed the whole goal (a feat in itself), so there was more space/distance to get down low - both are excellent examples of why top class keepers of any age are top class.
Thanks for sharing, mate - I'd forgotten that one and it is truly a pleasure to see it again
The best keeper I ever saw at United. The only keeper i'd take over him was a in form Neuer if i'm honest.Thanks for sharing, mate - I'd forgotten that one and it is truly a pleasure to see it again
Bobby Charlton and George Best would struggle to get into the current United side ahead of those modern athletes Juan Mata and Jesse Lingard according to @Rozay
Both crazy good saves.. Strange on the similarity..
I don't know if people, who didn't see Bobby Charlton play, realise how good a midfielder he was.
Pat Jennings and Robatz Breelcreyum?
Where is that ‘according to Rozay’? Stop talking shit.
Yesterdays players still had individualism, they might not track back as much etc but they would rinse FB a lot more than todays sides would.
No inverted / inside forward nonsense back then.
Most FB dont face those sort of players anymore. Players like Neymar and Sancho are hearlded so highly because their style are throwbacks.
Its gone from Ronaldinho to Ronaldo. From Zidane to KDB. Henry to Kane. Ruthless efficiency
No inverted / inside forward nonsense back then.
Most FB dont face those sort of players anymore. Players like Neymar and Sancho are hearlded so highly because their style are throwbacks.
Its gone from Ronaldinho to Ronaldo. From Zidane to KDB. Henry to Kane. Ruthless efficiency
It is implied by your comments. Are Juan Mata or David Silva physically superior players to Maradona by virtue of the fact they played 30 years later?
The ball was different back then. The state of defenders in general back then as well.
Who's the oldest footballer that you think would be world class even if he played today?
Maradona?
My thoughts are you have created possibly the worst thread on red cafe. What about the many blunders Dave has had ? What about Pickford being England keeper ? What about Kepa costing 70 million ?
We can all look at highlights of games and look at poor goalkeepers but to slag Schmeichel who is simply the best keeper ever to play in English football is nothing short of hilarious
Is this your first day?