Spot on.
I sure hope so. I just feel uneasy knowing they just wanna cash in on these situations
BLM in the Prem
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Hundreds of discussions I've been having with afro americans on various platforms for the past 2 weeks or so. With people who are active in this movement
Do you have examples? and what platforms?
You're right - Liverpool didn't get all that much shit for it, really. Suarez, as an individual, was roasted for it all over all the place (not just by United fans) - but the fact that the whole feckin' club lined up behind him (wearing those ludicrous t-shirts) wasn't really dealt with on the scale you might expect.
Instagram mainly but also facebook and even whatsapp, basic social media platforms. I don't mean to say that I was discussing with intellectuals and that everyone had the same view but it was enough for me to notice some trend.
It seems that pretty much everyone here agrees that there is a issue and that there is a need for more equality in the world. In every form. What it also seems is that there is a difference of methods people want to use to tackle this problems. However as long as people recognise that there is problems, then there is a hope.
My problem here is where to Premier League stop? As I mentioned earlier, would Premier League accept "LGBTQ+ people", "I am atheist", "Vegetarians", "Stop using oil", "Stop wars in world" for a 1/3 of a season as names on the back? If yes, then there is no problem. Lets do it. But if Premier League start to choose what they support then it is a big issue. There are people who are oppresed in a lots of way, depending on countries. There are people who are destroying the world.
So, where do Premier League draw the line? Where do clubs draw the line? As someone mentioned Ozil and Arsenal situation. As much as it seem to be for a good thing, I think they are better ways to support and work for equality then just changing names on the back for a short period of time.
My problem here is where to Premier League stop? As I mentioned earlier, would Premier League accept "LGBTQ+ people", "I am atheist", "Vegetarians", "Stop using oil", "Stop wars in world" for a 1/3 of a season as names on the back? If yes, then there is no problem. Lets do it. But if Premier League start to choose what they support then it is a big issue. There are people who are oppresed in a lots of way, depending on countries. There are people who are destroying the world.
So, where do Premier League draw the line? Where do clubs draw the line? As someone mentioned Ozil and Arsenal situation. As much as it seem to be for a good thing, I think they are better ways to support and work for equality then just changing names on the back for a short period of time.
They have always done this and so has every organisation to be honest. (Choosing what they publicly support)
Whilst I agree there are betters way to support including fixing their own house by the way. I also think that whilst this global campaign is taking place silence (especially when there are many black players in the PL) would have been a bad option. I'm also sure they were aware that players would likely take it upon them selves to join the campaign anyway.
Ok, but you gotta recognise that you're talking to a subset and possibly a subset that doesn't represent the whole.
People need to bare this in mind when they refer to conversations they've had with people on social media etc. If you're only referring to black Americans it's understandable that a sizeable amount of their focus might be more singular.... as they are dealing with it, in their day to day lives whereas we aren't. We have the luxury of incorporating a bigger picture.
I say we but personally I can empathize with a black American who lives in a situation (which I can understand to a degree based on my own experiences, but only to a degree as America is a whole other level) that says "For now can I just focus on police brutality and institutional racism in America". I get that 100%...
This guy is actually stopping supporting United because of it! Hahahahaah
Politics should be left out of football.
I am anti-racist and recognise BLM as a racist movement. Their world view is that white people are evil and black people are victims, that is why they named it Black lives matter and not Stop racism. The popular phrase "white silence is violence" exposes the nature of the movement. It is not enough to just not do racist things, you have to vocally agree with what BLM says otherwise you are deemed as violent, which in turn legitimizes violence against innocent white people.
Statistics in the US say that police are just as violent against white people but facts like that are ignored because it does not fit their racist agenda. Within victim status lies power. Black on white crime is also much more common in the US than white on black crime. White racists are aware of these statistics and feel unfairly labeled as the bad guys. BLM only agitates these people, bringing us further apart.
Racism is a real problem, both from white towards black and from black towards white. The best way to convert a racist is to share an interest and become mates with someone of another color. Football is brilliant for this, it unites people. A terrible attempt to convert a racist is pointing fingers and force them to oblige, this is what BLM does. See, all football has to do is include everybody and the football itself does the rest.
I have been a United supporter since the mid-90s but I can not do it anymore if they enter the pich with Black lives matter on their shirts, because I do not tolerate racism against any color, and that includes white people.
I am anti-racist and recognise BLM as a racist movement. Their world view is that white people are evil and black people are victims, that is why they named it Black lives matter and not Stop racism. The popular phrase "white silence is violence" exposes the nature of the movement. It is not enough to just not do racist things, you have to vocally agree with what BLM says otherwise you are deemed as violent, which in turn legitimizes violence against innocent white people.
Statistics in the US say that police are just as violent against white people but facts like that are ignored because it does not fit their racist agenda. Within victim status lies power. Black on white crime is also much more common in the US than white on black crime. White racists are aware of these statistics and feel unfairly labeled as the bad guys. BLM only agitates these people, bringing us further apart.
Racism is a real problem, both from white towards black and from black towards white. The best way to convert a racist is to share an interest and become mates with someone of another color. Football is brilliant for this, it unites people. A terrible attempt to convert a racist is pointing fingers and force them to oblige, this is what BLM does. See, all football has to do is include everybody and the football itself does the rest.
I have been a United supporter since the mid-90s but I can not do it anymore if they enter the pich with Black lives matter on their shirts, because I do not tolerate racism against any color, and that includes white people.
How will someone taking a knee during matches work?
They’d do better to support Black Lives Matter than the ghastly Kick It Out campaign.
That organisation has ran on forever and achieved absolutely nothing.
You will stop supporting a football team if they stand up for a group of people that are oppressed in almost every country, because of their skin colour?
We’re better off without you.
Ever read Rio’s autobiography? They bottled it massively when it mattered too (the John Terry case). He seemed really let down by them.
Maybe take a quick knee every now and then, kinda like tying your shoes.
Man, it's not just a minority that's thinking like that and I only summarized who I came into discussion with but this is a very usual way of thinking among african americans. My aunt and all her kids have been living in the USA; for decades. This isn't something I'm coming up with for controversy; they confirmed to me that this is a normal way of thinking for many blacks (specially the young ones).
Having seen police brutality in France done to my friend and been racially abused in Europe (he was algerian), I still don't understand this mindset of just focusing on my race alone. It's never gonna solve anything to have this mindset.
During the current climate and the intensive focus on the disparity between race across the world. I think it would be a perfect opportunity for our club to celebrate our rich history of black footballers. I’m sure that many people are unaware that our first black player was Dennis Walker in 1963, and that Viv Anderson was the first Black player to play for England. We have had some amazing black club captains, such as Paul Ince, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra, Antoino Valencia and recently Ashley Young. We currently have 23 black players in our squad. The Manchester United foundation does some great work in the community and this shouldn’t go un-noticed.
I think that the museum should dedicate a section to the rich tapestry and wonderful history that black footballers have dedicated to our club.
Dennis Walker, Manchester United’s first black player.
Viv Anderson, England’s first ever black player.
Paul McGrath. A legend.
Paul Ince celebrating the double.
York and Cole, Champions of Europe.
Rio Ferdinand, Fifa World club Champions.
Patrice Evra, Champions League Winner.
Icon.
The Academy
The future.
I think that the museum should dedicate a section to the rich tapestry and wonderful history that black footballers have dedicated to our club.
Dennis Walker, Manchester United’s first black player.
Viv Anderson, England’s first ever black player.
Paul McGrath. A legend.
Paul Ince celebrating the double.
York and Cole, Champions of Europe.
Rio Ferdinand, Fifa World club Champions.
Patrice Evra, Champions League Winner.
Icon.
The Academy
The future.
I don't view BLM that way, sorry if I was unclear. I view BLM as a racist movement. I am very troubled by it and how it is catching on. It is sad.
Fight racism with racism.
I don’t think they’re a racist movement, they’re just asking for better treatment. You could argue the execution of that at times veers into the unpleasant, such as the riots, but that’s why they need the mainstream to pick it up and run with a more legitimate platform for it. Until then, it’s only ever going to be people holding placards asking for basic human rights. It’s about the bigger picture.
I'm sorry? You think BLM is racist?
Great post always great to see representation, doubt they'll go that far though. Recognition and celebration is enough..During the current climate and the intensive focus on the disparity between race across the world. I think it would be a perfect opportunity for our club to celebrate our rich history of black footballers. I’m sure that many people are unaware that our first black player was Dennis Walker in 1963, and that Viv Anderson was the first Black player to play for England. We have had some amazing black club captains, such as Paul Ince, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra, Antoino Valencia and recently Ashley Young. We currently have 23 black players in our squad. The Manchester United foundation does some great work in the community and this shouldn’t go un-noticed.
I think that the museum should dedicate a section to the rich tapestry and wonderful history that black footballers have dedicated to our club.
Dennis Walker, Manchester United’s first black player.
Viv Anderson, England’s first ever black player.
Paul McGrath. A legend.
Paul Ince celebrating the double.
York and Cole, Champions of Europe.
Rio Ferdinand, Fifa World club Champions.
Patrice Evra, Champions League Winner.
Icon.
The Academy
The future.
I've seen that. The replies are filled with people talking about BLM being an extremist, anarchist group because of one obscure GoFundMe page and people getting rid of statues of racists.
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I respect the viewpoint that BLM is a legitimate anti-racist movement, I just don't agree with it. This is why it is bad for football to put politics into the mix, because people have different viewpoints. Politics are never simple. People feel excluded and then the uniting power gets lost.
I would just try and ignore the other stuff if it bothers you, and look at the movement in it’s simplest form. All they’re asking is an end to racism, it’s not that contentious or disagreeable, surely? Anything else is just noise.
Why so? Im actually curious as its the first time I have heard anyone describe it as such.
EDIT: I read your post above. Disagree but I'll leave it as that. The movement actually advocates not only for black people too, but obviously has a focus.
What do you mean by this?
"I think that the museum should dedicate a section to the rich tapestry and wonderful history that black footballers have dedicated to our club." is a bit racist. Why do only black people deserve a dedicated section in the museum? Are other races not that important? I support BLM movement to fight for equality but stuff like this is clearly OTT.
They are funded by the FA and so have their hands tied quite a bit.
What actually needs to be done is greater access to minorities regarding coaching and administration jobs. Additionally, harsher punishments for racism. Otherwise, it's just for PR. An episode of Guardian Football Weekly this past week highlighted the racist incidents since England-Bulgaria and the paltry punishments handed out.
Additionally, there's a lack of diversity in football broadcasting. Too much lack of opportunity. Once the various authorities put effort into expanding their net of hiring as well as facilitating minorities getting the required accreditation then they'll be putting their money where their mouth is. Action matters, not gestures/words.
I can never tell if people are trolling or are just thicker than pigshit.
Maybe because they are a minority?
If you had a museum of United players they would mainly be white no? So having a section to show non white players (it doesn't have to be just black but probably mainly will be) would help.
Its not about deserving a dedicated section, and why would it be racist? Who would it be racist against? The majority white players who would mainly fill the rest of the museum?
Choosing to highlight something which may otherwise be missed is not racist.
Agree
There’s nothing wrong with us celebrating minorities who have played for our great club.
TBF to them, they have like less than 20 employees and just enough funding. Not enough they can do without more support/more competent people.
Black people are not the only minority in the world. The idea of having a section of specific ethnic group players in a fecking club museum is a bit ridiculous, no? It just creates more separation if anything.
Completely missed my point. My point is, why specifically black players section? How about other minorities then? It's not like black people are cut out of pictures now is it?
You have to recognise that the black American experience is different. They're also getting racism from other minorities.
I agree with you in your opposition to the BLM movement. While I oppose racism, there's a number of problems with BLM, its supporters and the narratives they seek to promote.
Great stuff.
I already said a non white section would be better.
If the majority of footballers that have played for the club are white then why would that need to be highlighted? It's a given. Highlighting black players or Welsh or Scottish players is perfectly fine. It's just recognising the contribution a minority group has made to the club.
Who said it could only be black players that are highlighted? This is exactly the ignorance people have with BLM. One group asking for equality does not mean exclusivity. Affirmative action/Rooney rule is not racist. The fact it's needed is racist. Once it's so commonplace that it's no longer needed is the goal.