Top 4 Race 19/20 | duffer: "We [Chelsea] are getting 3rd. Despite what the lunatics in here think, Man United are not all that."

[Santoryo]

I agree with the last part of your post (it's a massive boost for us), but I'd say relatively speaking, Spurs would be happier getting Son and Kane back. While I think that the duo we're getting back is of better quality (though some might dispute it), I was more comfortable going into this game in March with the personnel we had than they had. I'm not as confident now.

While Spurs are getting Kane and Son back, they're coming to reinforce an absolutely disastrous team going by their form before the break. In the meantime Pogba and Rashford are being added to a team that was already flying high, so it'd be fair to assume the advantage still remains with United.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

While Spurs are getting Kane and Son back, they're coming to reinforce an absolutely disastrous team going by their form before the break. In the meantime Pogba and Rashford are being added to a team that was already flying high, so it'd be fair to assume the advantage still remains with United.

I hope so - but the first part was kind of my point. They were disastrous before the break, and prior to that game we were in a good dynamic (even without Rash and Pogba), whereas I think the gulf in quality has been drastically reduced with the return of 2 quality players for them (rather than 2 for us into a team that was doing well anyway). Nevertheless, this is all semantics, we should be winning this I would say, but it's pretty much like beginning a new season so nothing really makes sense.

 

[Leftback99]

Hyperbole

So you would feel confident of 4th if we were 6 points behind Chelsea with 8 games remaining?

 

[Santoryo]

So you would feel confident of 4th if we were 6 points behind Chelsea with 8 games remaining?

Yeah, 4th will still be on and very much so. You're looking at it as just the number of games left but you aren't considering the fixtures. While Tottenham is our biggest game remaining(Leicester and Sheffield United shouldn't be quite as tough as Spurs but tough nonetheless), Chelsea has still got to play Liverpool and City. So even with 6 points behind, I personally see Chelsea not getting anything in those game or at best 1 point, 3 if they get lucky.

Their fixture run in is just a lot more difficult than ours for it to be over after trailing 6 points behind while they still have City and Liverpool.

If we win against Tottenham(and I'm expecting us to do so) and starts strong, I see us sealing 4th before the final game. We continue with the form we left off and we;ll have breathing room while finishing off the season.

 

[Dancfc]

Yeah, 4th will still be on and very much so. You're looking at it as just the number of games left but you aren't considering the fixtures. While Tottenham is our biggest game remaining(Leicester and Sheffield United shouldn't be quite as tough as Spurs but tough nonetheless), Chelsea has still got to play Liverpool and City. So even with 6 points behind, I personally see Chelsea not getting anything in those game or at best 1 point, 3 if they get lucky.

Their fixture run in is just a lot more difficult than ours for it to be over after trailing 6 points behind while they still have City and Liverpool.

Don't see why you think that's set in stone.

I mean we could lose both purely because they're elite sides but given City's big away game record this season and the fact that we've been as competitive as anyone against Liverpool (and when we play them next they'll almost certainly have nothing to play for) so I wouldn't count your chickens and use those games as safety nets.

 

[passing-wind]

Worried for the remainder of the season and it wouldn't suprise me if we finish outside any positions for UCL qualification. The biggest struggle that undermines our team is consistency and we are extremely fortunate that many of the league bar Liverpool have concluded the same outcome. The team should be stronger with Rashford / Pogba coming back. The midfield is simply world class on paper barring a defensive midfielder, but Mctomminay has done a good job this season.

The importance is on Solskjaer's behalf to correctly drill and motivate the players for a strong finish. I think with our present injury free team more opposition will be inclined to sit back and that's where we will struggle but hopefully the coaching staff have reflected over much of our fixtures this season and have finally addressed breaking teams down that sit the midfield line / defence.

 

[Santoryo]

Don't see why you think that's set in stone.

I mean we could lose both purely because they're elite sides but given City's big away game record this season and the fact that we've been as competitive as anyone against Liverpool (and when we play them next they'll almost certainly have nothing to play for) so I wouldn't count your chickens and use those games as safety nets.

It's not set in stone but the likelihood of Chelsea picking up 6 points from those 2 games are very low. Liverpool has still got to play for the point record. If they come back strong out of the gate, they'd be thinking of beating that City points record, and not to mention it's a big game, so they'll be motivated obviously, likewise with City against you.

Like you said, anything can happen but I feel pretty confident on Chelsea not picking up more than 3 points in those 2 fixtures and that's all we'd need to get back in that top 4 race dog fight if we were trailing by 6 points prior.

Worried for the remainder of the season and it wouldn't suprise me if we finish outside any positions for UCL qualification. The biggest struggle that undermines our team is consistency and we are extremely fortunate that many of the league bar Liverpool have concluded the same outcome. The team should be stronger with Rashford / Pogba coming back. The midfield is simply world class on paper barring a defensive midfielder, but Mctomminay has done a good job this season.

The importance is on Solskjaer's behalf to correctly drill and motivate the players for a strong finish. I think with our present injury free team more opposition will be inclined to sit back and that's where we will struggle but hopefully the coaching staff have reflected over much of our fixtures this season and have finally addressed breaking teams down that sit the midfield line / defence.

To be seen with both Bruno and Pogba added to the creative forced we lacked throughout the season when we struggled to break teams. back then our creative outlets were supposed to be Perreira and Lingard who don't have any creative bone in their bodies, so of course we struggled to create. Things ought to pan out very differently with both Pogba and Bruno involved.

 

[Leftback99]

Yeah, 4th will still be on and very much so. You're looking at it as just the number of games left but you aren't considering the fixtures. While Tottenham is our biggest game remaining(Leicester and Sheffield United shouldn't be quite as tough as Spurs but tough nonetheless), Chelsea has still got to play Liverpool and City. So even with 6 points behind, I personally see Chelsea not getting anything in those game or at best 1 point, 3 if they get lucky.

Their fixture run in is just a lot more difficult than ours for it to be over after trailing 6 points behind while they still have City and Liverpool.

If we win against Tottenham(and I'm expecting us to do so) and starts strong, I see us sealing 4th before the final game. We continue with the form we left off and we;ll have breathing room while finishing off the season.

I think you're over confident about us basically winning every game including Leicester while Chelsea drop points in any tricky game they have, it's never that straightforward. Hope you're right though.

 

[Santoryo]

I think you're over confident about us basically winning every game including Leicester while Chelsea drop points in any tricky game they have, it's never that straightforward. Hope you're right though.

I'm not even being overconfident, I'm being conservative here. Overconfidence would be me saying Chelsea drop points against both City and Pool while we clear the remainder of our games.

While we'll still have tricky fixtures such as Leicester and Sheffield, Chelsea will also have tricky fixtures after results against Pool and City. They also have Wolves and Sheffield utd to play. Basically what I'm getting at is that City and Pool almost guaranty us to have a slip up against Spurs(trail 6 points) yet still be in the top 4 fight till the very end. City and Pool are almost definitely guaranteed to take away that 6 points cushion/advantage from Chelsea which will leave both of us in a dog fight against tricky opponents.

If we beat Tottenham, handle our tricky games and beat the teams we're expected to beat then we're clearing top 4 with room to spare. If not and we hit bumps, I still see us in the race but this time in a dog fight. Chelsea having City and Pool is huge for us.

 

[cyberman]

Don't see why you think that's set in stone.

I mean we could lose both purely because they're elite sides but given City's big away game record this season and the fact that we've been as competitive as anyone against Liverpool (and when we play them next they'll almost certainly have nothing to play for) so I wouldn't count your chickens and use those games as safety nets.

Its their last home game where they lift the title isnt it?
Edit plus you have 1 league win v a top side at home all season as far as I can see? And that was Spurs

 

[Dancfc]

Its their last home game where they lift the title isnt it?

Yep, unless they have a prosponed home game slotted in after.

 

[Santoryo]

So here are Chelsea tough and tricky games left :
Tough: Liverpool, City
Tricky or moderately difficult: Sheffield Utd, Wolves

Here are our tough and tricky games:
Tough(not quite as tough as Chelsea's): Tottenham
Tricky or moderately difficult: Shieffield utd, Leicester

Now we are 3 points behind Chelsea but with favorable goal difference(though this is negligible because it's only 2 goals advantage, can always be overturned). Of course even the games where both of us are expected to win won't be easy nor guaranteed, especially since some of them are fighting for survival, not to mention both us and Chelsea have been inconsistent.

But if we focus on the main games to asses things, with us only 3 points behind Chelsea I'd say we're in a good position to nab 4th. I know Chelsea are ahead of us currently(by 3 points) but given the run of fixtures remaining and the small gap in points(a gap which can be overturned with 1 result), I'm feeling pretty good about our chances to make it.

 

[Leftback99]

I'm not even being overconfident, I'm being conservative here. Overconfidence would be me saying Chelsea drop points against both City and Pool while we clear the remainder of our games.

While we'll still have tricky fixtures such as Leicester and Sheffield, Chelsea will also have tricky fixtures after results against Pool and City. They also have Wolves and Sheffield utd to play. Basically what I'm getting at is that City and Pool almost guaranty us to have a slip up against Spurs(trail 6 points) yet still be in the top 4 fight till the very end. City and Pool are almost definitely guaranteed to take away that 6 points cushion/advantage from Chelsea which will leave both of us in a dog fight against tricky opponents.

If we beat Tottenham, handle our tricky games and beat the teams we're expected to beat then we're clearing top 4 with room to spare. If not and we hit bumps, I still see us in the race but this time in a dog fight. Chelsea having City and Pool is huge for us.

Bookies currently give City alone around a 50% chance of beating Chelsea so I wouldn't say they are 'almost definitely' going to drop 6 points to us (also assuming we win those games at the same time).

 

[Santoryo]

Bookies currently give City alone around a 50% chance of beating Chelsea so I wouldn't say they are 'almost definitely' going to drop 6 points to us (also assuming we win those games at the same time).

Well we'll see. Looking at that Chelsea's defense, City should be able to tear them up compensating for their own less than ideal defense.

 

[Bilbo]

These discussions are all pointless really at this point in time, because we just dont know how everybody is going to adapt until after the first round or two of matches.

Things were looking very good before the break. You'd like to think that we'd be better off having Rashford and Pogba back in the mix but every team are going to have a full squad. Preparation will be different for every club. Some will nail it and some wont.

First two game are crucial, but in response to some of the posts earlier in this thread I'm absolutely convinced that Ole will be here next season come what may. Getting rid of him now would be idiotic.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Good result for us with Sheffield dropping points.

 

[freeurmind]

2 good results for us last night though I would be absolutely fuming if I were a blades fan after that Hawkeye fiasco. If the City ban is upheld, we'll be in a great position if we beat Spurs tomorrow night.

 

[TMDaines]

Given how sluggish the two away teams looked last night, I'm a bit worried that the long away trips could majorly impact United's form in the league with the awkward arrangements for elite athletes who need to be ready to perform. There's a good article on The Athletic about it: https://theathletic.com/1875450/202...-sleep-bournemouth-watford-manchester-united/

 

[Bubz27]

Our run in is very favourable and Chelsea have a lot of difficult games. City, Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves still to play, Sheff Utd and West Ham away as well.

Our toughest game now is Leicester away last game of the season.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Our run in is very favourable and Chelsea have a lot of difficult games. City, Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves still to play, Sheff Utd and West Ham away as well.

Our toughest game now is Leicester away last game of the season.

Do Leicester have a tough run-in too or does it look pretty safe that they are going to make it?

 

[bond19821982]

Our run in is very favourable and Chelsea have a lot of difficult games. City, Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves still to play, Sheff Utd and West Ham away as well.

Our toughest game now is Leicester away last game of the season.

Exactly where we struggle.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Exactly where we struggle.

With Pogba and Bruno I think we'll do well in these games now.

Having two elite level creative players will make a massive difference.

 

[Bubz27]

Do Leicester have a tough run-in too or does it look pretty safe that they are going to make it?

I'd favour ours over there's but they've got a cushion.

Arsenal away, Chelsea, Everton away, Spurs away. They got some tough games.

 

[cyberman]

I'd favour ours over there's but they've got a cushion.

Arsenal away, Chelsea, Everton away, Spurs away. They got some tough games.

Plus us!

 

[Bubz27]

Exactly where we struggle.

With Pogba and Bruno I think we'll do well in these games now.

Having two elite level creative players will make a massive difference.

I agree with both of you. Under Ole we have struggled in these games, and I'm not taking it for granted. But we've got 2 legitimate creative midfielders now and hopefully Rashford and Martial stay fit, and then a bit of depth and change in style with Ighalo as well.

I'm quietly confident.

 

[Dancfc]

Our run in is very favourable and Chelsea have a lot of difficult games. City, Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves still to play, Sheff Utd and West Ham away as well.

Our toughest game now is Leicester away last game of the season.

Leicester is a cup game.

 

[cyberman]

With Pogba and Bruno I think we'll do well in these games now.

Having two elite level creative players will make a massive difference.

Yeah, I think the last 20 minutes tonight shows we now have it to put lesser sides to the sword.
We really should get there. It seems our overall play hasnt been affected that much from the break, just the sharpness in front of goal

 

[Bubz27]

Plus us!

Yeah absolutely.

 

[Bubz27]

Leicester is a cup game.

My bad.

 

[OneUnited24]

With Pogba and Bruno I think we'll do well in these games now.

Having two elite level creative players will make a massive difference.

Totally agree - having those two back will create a lot more chances for the front 3. Look at that second half, had Rashford and Martial not been rusty they made 2 good openings for them

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I'd favour ours over there's but they've got a cushion.

Arsenal away, Chelsea, Everton away, Spurs away. They got some tough games.

That is certainly tough. Even though they have got a nice cushion, I wouldn’t be ruling them out in being dragged into this.

 

[TMDaines]

Our run in is very favourable and Chelsea have a lot of difficult games. City, Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves still to play, Sheff Utd and West Ham away as well.

Our toughest game now is Leicester away last game of the season.

Chelsea could be 5 points ahead before commencing on that run though. Chelsea don’t have to play Leicester either.

I think United need 21 points from the final 24. Probably need to win the lot to bring Leicester into the mix too.

 

[Bubz27]

Chelsea could be 5 points ahead before commencing on that run though. Chelsea don’t have to play Leicester either.

I think United need 21 points from the final 24. Probably need to win the lot to bring Leicester into the mix too.

It's a bit of a moot point though, really. Theyve got Villa away which won't be easy but then City next game which could easily make the gap 2 points again.

 

[croadyman]

Has been Chelsea's week without kicking a ball with announcement of Werner and Spurs, Utd & Sheff Utd dropping points.

I wouldn't have seen a draw as a bad result if Chelsea had City and Liverpool still to play in normal circumstances.

My gut feeling is that City won't be up for the game on Thurs with the title gone and Liverpool will have longed seal the league when they go to Anfield. I really hope I am wrong about this and they both make me eat my words.

 

[Judas]

Rightfully a bit deflated after last night, we need to win every game now and hope for a few favours, and I'm not sure we'll have the consistency. But with Pogba and Bruno together we have the tools to turn the typical games we'd struggle in around, so thats promising.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Still not worried. City's ban will stand for at least one year.

 

[rotherham_red]

Rightfully a bit deflated after last night, we need to win every game now and hope for a few favours, and I'm not sure we'll have the consistency. But with Pogba and Bruno together we have the tools to turn the typical games we'd struggle in around, so thats promising.

Chelsea have a far worse run in, with Chelsea and Liverpool still to play, as well as Sheffield utd and wolves on the final day. I genuinely don't see them maintaining any sort of points lead over us.

We don't 'need' to win every game. We didn't even necessarily needed the win yesterday either. The main thing was to not lose and to maintain that gap between us and spurs. If they closed it to within one point, with Jose having a point to prove and their players having a spring in their step, that would have made the task at hand harder.

 

[duffer]

Chelsea have a far worse run in, with Chelsea and Liverpool still to play, as well as Sheffield utd and wolves on the final day. I genuinely don't see them maintaining any sort of points lead over us.

We don't 'need' to win every game. We didn't even necessarily needed the win yesterday either. The main thing was to not lose and to maintain that gap between us and spurs. If they closed it to within one point, with Jose having a point to prove and their players having a spring in their step, that would have made the task at hand harder.

I fancy Chelsea in that one.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Still not worried. City's ban will stand for at least one year.

What makes you so sure

 

[Slysi17]

Chelsea could be 5 points ahead before commencing on that run though. Chelsea don’t have to play Leicester either.

I think United need 21 points from the final 24. Probably need to win the lot to bring Leicester into the mix too.

Your wrong about Chelsea not having to play leceister again. Chelsea play leceister city away from home on the 28th June. Could see them dropping points in that.