Staying at home in Canada?
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Can you point me to where it blames Israel for the killing rather than the US police?
What's equally horrific is the potential of setting up a victimhood war between the Black and Jewish communities.
It's fake anti semitism, the same type that has been used to subdue the left for as long as I've followed politics.
I find that when dealing with morons, it's best to look at the facts. So firstly we'll look at the content of the article.
The quote in question:
“The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
This statement could be true or false but the problem is that there is no evidence to prove either way. What we do know is that Israeli forces do train American police on techniques they can use. We also know that this practice has been banned in Durham, North Carolina. We also know that the knee on the neck technique is used frequently by the IDF to subdue Palestinian protesters.
So whilst it is a jump to suggest that this specific technique was taught by Israeli special forces, it's certainly not outlandish.
Another fact is that nobody has ever claimed that Israel or indeed any Jew was responsible for George Floyd's death. That is a conclusion that air heads like yourself have jumped to. If you can name even one person who has attributed his death to anyone but the officer in question and American police brutality/racism, I will bow to your superior knowledge.
Now that I have explained why I don't think this is antisemitic and is indeed just being weaponised to purge the left (again), either explain your side or kindly don't reply to my posts.
Because relentlessly going after Boris worked out so well for Corbyn... The Tories gained plenty of support because easily swayed voters got fed up with it. Starmer is demonstrating a clear difference in approach to the Tories. He compares very favourably to Boris' stoic support of Cummings. Boris is getting plenty of shit as it is from the media. Why open himself up to any kind of counterargument. Berry Berry Shrew.
Let's be fair they haven't even concluded that based off a genuine reading of the article. They've seen there's a scandal involving someone they don't like and started from there.
So you think it's okay for him not to condemn a criminal but to chuck a colleagues career down the shitter for sharing an article that hasn't been fully fact checked?
The bit where she links George Floyd’s death to American training at Israeli secret service seminars - specifically kneeling on necks.
It’s not true, hence the apology. It’s anti-semitic because she singled out Israel when the US police have been trained by a host of foreign police forces in restraining techniques, including the UK and France.
But Israel was picked, with zero justification. We’re not talking about Israeli force against Palestinians, or illegal settler camps. We’re talking about a police officer in the US who has murdered a black person on the floor and somehow it’s because of Israel.
It’s really simple, I promise.
Please read this article, sums it up rather well:
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment...-keir-starmer-recognises-anti-semitism-456034
anyone remember when @Fearless called Palestinians subhuman or are we going to pretend that's fine?
Pretty much. It's tragic.
That explains his shite talk in here then. You wouldn't by any chance be able to copy and paste that so that we have it in this discussion?
no antisemitism to see here...
Ive heard that excuse from the labour left before I think
Then it will be fake news ... no doubt because the media is controlled by nudge nudge wink wink
The sooner the report is out the better lets get this over with and clean up the mess
they are not a real people, as golda meir rightfully said.
Yes. It's perfectly fine for him to sack the Shadow Education Secretary when they're too thick to check an article they're retweeting (I hope the irony isn't lost on you), instead of wading into a scandal when it's not necessarily needed. Starmer doesn't need to throw shade on this; that's already happening.
it's gone now, the admins deleted it and let him off
Why do think ant-Israel activist Maxine Peake made the connection in the first place? Either she's an idiot or has an agenda. Those are your only two choices.
Are you going to make a relevant comment or just keep trudging things up from years ago?no antisemitism to see here...
Ive heard that excuse from the labour left before I think
whats next - its a fake report ... or Israel funds the EHRC and we are only attacking Israel not jews
Then it will be fake news ... no doubt because the media is controlled by nudge nudge wink wink
The sooner the report is out the better lets get this over with and clean up the mess
I’m not sure that’s going to happen to be honest. Starmer acting quickly has probably nipped it in the bud. I will be surprised if this is still front page news in a few days.
Shows where your morals lie.
Still not seeing where the blame is attributed?
You're inferring (or more likely you've read others infering) that by linking the aggressive technique to the training they've received that it's not the US police or the officer to blame it's the country offering the training? That's your argument right? You don't think that's a bit silly.
Then we take another leap in logic and the blame now isn't even Israel it's the jews apparently.
The UK and France don't have a long history of police brutality and weren't in the Amnesty report used as a source. It would be odd to use them.
The point is the US police care so little about police brutality they're being trained by one of the most brutal forces with countless human rights violations. Which is a pretty substantial point in an article about an incident of police brutality.
Yuck. That's disgusting.
Just as her article presented no proof about the knee on the neck technique coming from Israel, you have not presented any proof as to how this is antisemitic. Seems like a conspiracy theory to me.
As I said, either explain how this is antisemitic or jog on.
Enjoy more years of a dunce in a blonde frightwig then. The choice is yours.
Keep howling at that moon fella.
No problem.
It's a line that worked so well in the US that they're giving it a go over here.
Yep, will do.
Not sure why you’re blaming him for the timing. It’s not like this was a planned announcement.
When both sides are absolute scum, I'll not bother getting involved.
Again, your refusal to accept that Israel was exceptionally singled out (by an anti-Israel activist) is the issue you need to deal with.
Because it's a non issue. He didn't need to do anything.
Corbyn needs his pack.
That's suddenly not allowed, despite being called for at the last two elections (one GE and one MEP) by the very same people using this line today.
Exceptionally singled out? Israeli Special forces are the only people training the American police who use this technique as far as I'm aware? Like I said, no proof to conclusively say it's where they learnt it but it's an error, not bigotry.
You’ll have to take my word that I’m capable of arguing for myself and that I’m not using this case to attack RLB or the “left wing” of the Labour party because it’s convenient. However, I imagine you’re someone that sees conspiracies everywhere (or is that baseless assumption?).
Police brutality and racism is an issue within many police forces in the US and has been long before certain forces from the US attended training in Israel.
Conflating the two with George Floyd is purely an assumption and totally unwarranted. Therefore, anti-semitic because it’s bringing Israel into it for no reason. You can argue until the cows come home but it won’t stop being anti-semitic. Israel is far from a perfect country and deserves criticism for a host of reasons including multiple human rights violations, as well as it’s own serious issues with racism to the surprisingly large African community that lives there, but blaming it for training the US police, who then used that training to kill George Floyd specifically is far fetched, lazy and anti-semitic.
Hopefully. All it takes is Corbyn and his flock inferring something and then backing away.
People are hypocrites unfortunately.
Agree with his point on it definitely being anti-Semitic. Also agree with the broader point that Starmer was going to use Johnson's inability to be decisive and sack members of his cabinet to show his lack of leadership, which he couldn't have done had he kept RLB.
Oh come on, it is not anti-Semitic because she referred to Israel but not France or the UK. Are we not allowed to draw attention to anything Israel does without referring to similar abhorrent practices carried out by numerous other countries? If so, it’s basically impossible to criticise Israel’s policies without being anti-Semitic. Israel is a state like any other. Criticising its policies does not inherently reflect on attitudes towards Judaism or Jewish people. Someone can be vehemently opposed to Israeli policies, as many Jews are, and frequently highlight them without being anti-Semitic.
It’s quite clear that Peake’s comments were problematic in that she made an unsubstantiated claim (based only on circumstantial evidence), but that itself is not anti-Semitic. I’ve posted earlier on here that I would query anyone’s motive if they appear keen to draw a line between Israeli influence and US police brutality/racism, but doing so in itself is not automatically anti-Semitic and it’s absurd to make that claim.
There's plenty of valid reasons to criticise the state of Israel, wish the left of Labour and indeed left wing activists that are leftist part of centre-left parties recognised that.
Because while the reactions around criticism of Israel can have disproportionate consequences a significant amount of criticism is based around conspiracy theorism that in other contexts you can be loose with (e.g. the "system") but can also be based in anti-semitic tropes
A lot of famous people - recently Roger Waters, Ice Cube engage in conspiracy theorism that some may perceive as anti-semitic tropes (although in the case of Ice Cube blatantly so). Politicians should stay away from that stuff with and not touch it with a bargepole.
The irony is that there is so much to talk about and criticise them for over including occupation, annexation etc that'll annoyingly get missed when we instead decides to focus our criticism on things that are bogus.
Because while the reactions around criticism of Israel can have disproportionate consequences a significant amount of criticism is based around conspiracy theorism that in other contexts you can be loose with (e.g. the "system") but can also be based in anti-semitic tropes
A lot of famous people - recently Roger Waters, Ice Cube engage in conspiracy theorism that some may perceive as anti-semitic tropes (although in the case of Ice Cube blatantly so). Politicians should stay away from that stuff with and not touch it with a bargepole.
The irony is that there is so much to talk about and criticise them for over including occupation, annexation etc that'll annoyingly get missed when we instead decides to focus our criticism on things that are bogus.