You said no ref is giving that one. Just correcting that statement.
Pogba gets a red card — Fernandes a penalty
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
No I'm saying you'll find no refs saying its a penalty now...
You're free to believe it's a pen if this is going to make you feel better. I don't care about such stuff all honestly.
Clear penalty
Bruno has possession of the ball - defender goes straight through him from behind and takes his legs. If the defender had not slid in Bruno would keep the ball and so it’s a foul
It was inside the penalty area so it’s a penalty
I don’t get the debate- anyway Greenwood was pushed over in the 3rd minute and there was no VAR then...
Yeah, I don't get it. Pundits wont try to reason and deduct these days, they just merely explain how they see it through their eyes which is often just influenced on emotions anyways. Aston Villa had their chances until that moment, and it seemed unfair for the underdog. That is the only reason why anyone would ignore the realtime footage of what happened.
Exactly. Football isn't being played in slow motion, and as weird a situation that was, what else do can a ref do? It's clearly something. Either it's a dive or a foul when the attackers move stops that abruptly. There is simply no way of just waiving play on in a situation like that, and you can't call a foul on Bruno simply because he is in possession of the ball when he turns his back. You could make a case for giving the foul against Bruno if you could prove that he couldn't reach the ball, and wasn't in control of it, but the reason you can't do that is because the defender went in to tackle too early and missed so we didn't get to see if Bruno could pull the move off. It's a bit of a complex situation, but frankly I think a penalty is the most fair outcome.
For instance, It would be way more controversial if Bruno received a yellow card. If you allow such decision to become the general rule then any defender worth their salt would simply put their foot underneath an attackers leg every time he is dribbling to rapidly turn defence into attack by having the attacker carded. Would be a ridiculous game of football.
does it make you feel better though? you seem to keep wanting people to "take it" in this threadMaybe not all refs has social media?
Fine if you think so. That‘s why the OP asks to compare AND contrast. Engage or leave.
No but they have columns / refwatch on SkySports etc.Maybe not all refs has social media?
Also the PL Match Centre has basically confirmed it was the wrong decision so you know... it was the wrong decision.
Never in a fecking million years is it even close to a pen. He didn’t get the ball, sure, but he also didn’t fecking touch Bruno. He consciously stops himself from going through the attacker. Bruno is the one that makes contact with him - he literally steps on the bloke with studs showing. Bruno ‘falls to the ground’ rather theatrically because he actually steps on the villa player and loses his footing. If anything, it’s a foul against United. I’m happy it was given, mind, but it’s not a pen. Not even close.
Never a penalty in my books. But then I’m not Jon Moss.
if Liverpool was awarded penalty against us for the same play the caf would be fuming
if Liverpool was awarded penalty against us for the same play the caf would be fuming
They are nothing alike. One is a red card. Unfortunate, but a red as it was very reckless. The other is a penalty. Unfortunate for Villa, but a penalty because Bruno lured the defender into making a tackle that wasn't there.
I don’t think it was a penalty.
but I did think it was a definite penalty in real time which is why Moss gave it.
then it becomes a question of “clear and obvious error” by the ref which I’m less sure about.
but I did think it was a definite penalty in real time which is why Moss gave it.
then it becomes a question of “clear and obvious error” by the ref which I’m less sure about.
It's a foul, the wrong decision here is why is it a penalty. Jon Moss should've given a free kick on the edge of the box.
But for me, it's one of those 50/50 challenge, why did the play stop? It starting to make sense if you deduce it that way.
So Bruno has the skill to execute the move and outsmarted the guy, what is the issue here?
I would expect the likes of Maguire to stay on his feet in this situation, but if he goes in and misses the ball but takes out the player? i'd be fuming yeah
For sure. If you watch at normal speed it looks like a Penalty.
he didnt miss the ball and he didnt take the player out though. Bruno turns and steps on his shin. Daft decision from a daft referee..
Oh yeah I thought it was a pen at first glance, so sympathy with Moss on that one (though he was crap for most of the game regardless) But on the replays you can clearly see it isn't one.
Is this a joke. Defender does not take his legs ? So does no matter that ball was outside the box.
Can you, honestly, say that if that was the other way round you would think it was a Villa penalty.
If you look at the full video he doesn't just stop there, the follow through from his trailing leg wouldve taken out Bruno even if he didnt land on his shin, which was unfortunate. They were both going for the ball and the momentum took him through, the defender doesn't just stop.
The real question for the nay sayers is, where the feck should Bruno lands his feet then?
Who gives a feck. Have people lost their mind ??? The villa player is on the ground is he supposed to be flying so fernandes can land on the ground ?
Its a foul by fernandes. In no way shape or form is that a penalty.
Bloody hell
It’s not a foul. It’s not a pen. He pulled out of the tackle. Why did the play stop? Because he fecking dove to the floor after stepping on the defender.He supposed to not get tricked like that. That's your answer.
A bigger point I'll make that might perhaps be more controversial. I don't think VAR should look at slow motion replays of incidents like that. Look at it multiple times and from different angles in full speed all you like but slow motion takes away all sense of momentum and intent. A hand on the back looks the same as a shove and a player landing on the feet of a defender making a tackle looks like a stamp.
Bloody hell, Bruno should just allow the ball towards the defender then, no need to drag the ball back. 10 points for you.Bloody hell
Are people sympathizing with the defender because he got stepped on? One of the reasons he got stamped was because he committed early and went down, putting his leg there. Then pen may be soft but there's no excuse for the clumsy challenge.
That‘s one of the big general questions in both cases. Pogba played the ball and his foot just continued on it‘s path to land on the defender‘s planted leg. Both players can‘t just halt in midair and choose a free landing spot.
The position of the player stomped on must be considered. If you endanger yourself, you should pay the price. For me that should have counted in both situations, not just today.
Exactly, even in slow mo you can see Bruno heads up and anticipated that challenge.
You have to be dense to believe in your heart of hearts, that was a legitimate penalty. I mean I'll take it, but come on.
I dont get this ???
Hes on the pitch hes on the ground hes not touching bruno. Where the feck is he supposed to be ?
You won. Games over. But dont bullshit about this.
That's why VAR is present, to replay such scenes in slow motion. They seemed to not review it which is weird but it worked for us so no problem. If that happened against us though I will be fuming non stop at how stupid VAR is.
Yes, take that snarky, militant tone with me, as though I hold the fecking maverick opinion. The decision is being widely criticised because it is not, under any circumstances, a pen (or a foul). Who fecking cares where Bruno puts his feet - HE is the one that makes contact.
If the defender stopped, Bruno wouldn't be able to draw the foul. The mistake in that sequence is the defender not anticipating the trick from Bruno, hence the collision. I don't think there is any doubt such situations where attackers draw fouls, capitalising on tiny mistakes from defenders, leaves a bitter feeling for the opposition. It always does, but I find on this forum that people often seem eager to prove their unbiasedness by always going with the feeling of the opposition.
Just because Bruno moves back out from the penalty area and leaves his leg where the ball was doesn't mean that it isn't called penalty. I don't know what else you can realistically give in that situation? I certainly wouldn't be happy if Bruno didn't get a penalty, as I'm 100% sure De Bruyne would get one. Sterling and many others draw similar fouls on a regular basis and get penalties. To top it off, Aston Villa drew fouls similar to that one (minus the unfortunate landing) all game and kept getting free-kicks. Is the ref supposed to allow it one way, but not the other. He had to blow for a penalty there.
Hes on the pitch, on the ground, sliding towards the ball. which bruno took away from him. i dont get what is so hard to understand here. Ok you dont think its a pen, fine. I dont think the ref made a clear and obvious error because he saw Bruno getting taken out by the defender and the follow through.
Indeed.
Theres no foul he doesnt touch Bruno.
Youre insinuating if somone slides at me misses i knock the ball past them then stud them and break their leg it would be a foul against them how does that make sense ?
And this is what the debate SHOULD be centred on. It would make for a far more interesting discussion.
It’s obviously not a pen, BUT I agree it’s also not a clear and obvious error. In real time, I see why it was called. So, should VAR overturn the decision?
Well he didn't stud him on purpose, he was spinning with the ball and happened to land on his leg.
It's a foul by the tackler on the player if during the phase of play:
1. The player has control of the ball prior to the challenge being made by the tackler
2. The tackler makes no contact with the ball during the tackle
3. The tackler makes sufficient contact with the player to plausibly prevent the latter from retaining control of the ball
All those three conditions were met. It was a foul and a penalty.
You could argue there was nothing nothing Konsa could do to get out of the way. But intention is only relevant when the ref is handing out a card. It's not a factor when deciding whether or not it was a foul.
Bruno deserved the set piece because his possession was denied by a challenge that took him out whilst taking none of the ball in the process. It's as simple as that.
1. The player has control of the ball prior to the challenge being made by the tackler
2. The tackler makes no contact with the ball during the tackle
3. The tackler makes sufficient contact with the player to plausibly prevent the latter from retaining control of the ball
All those three conditions were met. It was a foul and a penalty.
You could argue there was nothing nothing Konsa could do to get out of the way. But intention is only relevant when the ref is handing out a card. It's not a factor when deciding whether or not it was a foul.
Bruno deserved the set piece because his possession was denied by a challenge that took him out whilst taking none of the ball in the process. It's as simple as that.