If we get the CL I think we'll be willing to pay that little extra that Dortmund want and Sancho will push for it more. If we do get him, our attack will be phenomenal. A cover/replacement for Matic and we could possibly challenge. Exciting stuff.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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Need a CB also in my opinion. CB, CDM and RW - Happy days
Yeah, ofcourse, but my point is kinda that they have already probably done that. Would be very stupid to gamble all of that work on CL when you think about where we were when they started working on it.
Arrogant post for a team that wins feck all and exists to feed Bayern Munich.
Has to be our number one priority. Right age, right potential, English which means he will be hyped in the UK, can bring all kinds of commercial endorsements. Would compliment out attacking line superbly. Can play in RW, LW would provide competition for places which is what we want.
So let's face it Dortmund's ambition is not to win trophies at any cost. Their business model is such that they need to qualify for CL and keep buying talented players for peanuts and then selling them for exorbitant amounts. Although, they've managed to do well with the likes of O Dembele and Aubameyang and will most likely do so with Sancho, they've had their fair share of losses as well with the likes of Lewandowski joining on a free when in reality, he was easily worth 70m or so when he left for Bayern. Dortmund have to sell Sancho because he does not plan on extending his deal. So the question is either sell him this year or the following year. This year, only United seem interested whereas Chelsea despite being interested have steered as they don't want to get into any bidding war with United and will most likely sign Havertz who will be much cheaper than Sancho. Dortmund will want to wait for a year as they can get the likes of PSG, Real, Barca and even Liverpool involved and that could drive up the price. I think United will need to have this deal done this year as I feel that Sancho could be on the same level as Rashford and Martial in terms of chemistry and could make a terrific trio. 100m is a lot of money in this climate and it's a tough decision to take as he's only 20 and could be here for the next decade and be part of the golden generation of United to come. I guess time will tell but I don't see this being wrapped up when the window opens. This saga will be dragged on till the end of the window and Ed will probably pay what their demanding but Dortmund will have to settle for add-ons. I just hope that this saga does not jeopardize us from looking at other signings that we need strengthening in.
I’m coming at it from a fan’s perspective and the joy of the game is in the glory, or potential of it. Talk of business models and profiteering can be left to the executives as far as I’m concerned. My original reply was to an arrogant sounding Dortmund fan coming on here giving it large about our apparent incompetence. Even if it is true that his club are a better oiled machine than ours, what does it ultimately amount to for him or her? I’ll give you the answer – following a side that never wins anything and acts as a finishing school for young talents who graduate to proper teams that actually compete, or want to try to compete for trophies.
In respect of the Sancho deal, it looks like a dead cert to me and all this media talk is just posturing on both sides as the clubs look to settle on an acceptable figure.
Is this meant to be a joke? I know people have this obsession with Sancho, but he is not better than Martial . I think people will be in for a shock when Sancho plays in the premier league. He wont produce the Dortmund numbers here because teams don't give you that freedom here. Defending in Bundesliga is a joke.
If we pay the price for Sancho there will not be any other signings.
This isn't FPL!
Definitely need a pacey centre back to help Maguire with his one big flaw but much like I think Ole will go with McTominay and Garner as long term replacements/cover for Matic whilst managing Matic’s game time I think Ole will leave centre back til next year and hope 1. Bailly can stay fit and 2. Tuanzebe kicks on properly.
I worry about us playing against a team with lots of pace up top when we’ve got Lindelof and Maguire starting together but it’s almost like our default pairing due to Bailly being our version of Daniel Sturridge and being prone to lapses in concentration whilst Tuanzebe has had injury problems all season too and don’t even get me started on Jones.
Hopefully we move Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lingard and Sanchez on this summer which will free up not far from a million a week in wages. I’ve heard rave reviews about Mengi though so maybe we’ll have a look at him during the summer and between him and Tuanzebe they could save us millions for a new centre back.
No one expecting Sancho to replicate this Bundesliga numbers in the PL. This season, he's had 20 goals and 20 assists in all competitions. However, he's being bought because he's 20 years of age which means he could play for about a decade. His best years are still ahead of him. He's a marquee signing and even if he contributes about 10 goals and 10 assists in his first season for us, I think it'll be considered a success. By the time he hits 24/25, he could have improved his shooting and could average about 20-25 goals like what Sterling does for City. It's a steep price to pay but him being English means he wouldn't be tempted to leave for the likes of Barca and Real like most non-English players tend to do.
If we sell and/or get CL we have the money for more players
That's not true. It depends how much we agree to pay in the end and how the deal is structured. There will be an upfront fee, add-ons and also installments over the course of 3 to 4 years. So we can't completely rule out other signings even if we do sign Sancho. United are looking at bringing at least 2 players in during this window as this is the best time to make up ground on the likes of City and Pool.
I would rather get quality > quantity. A 2021/22 side with more quality gives us a better chance at competing for the highest honors than a 2021/22 side that just tries to get depth for the sake of it.
With sales, you have youth coming through but also potentially the loan market. You also have more chance of p/x if needs be in this current climate.
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I think he'll push for it..
It won’t. This is as done as they come.
And quality does not come cheap,
Sancho is quality and if there are no departures from our club (only the ones we want to get rid of) then I think that will be it for us.
I don’t get the arrogance over the Sancho deal. We’ve been here so many times over the past few years. Most recently , Haaland.
Nothing like the Haaland deal really. How are they similar at all?
Check his numbers and amount of goals that he is directly involved in mate. I believe it was as high as any player in Europe
Martial is having his best season, until this season I would even compare him with Sancho at Dortmund, certainly not for goal creation/assists.
Hardly, but it will be fun to watch. Also, plenty of great teams have had one or two duds in the team and still won leagues and cups recently. A central shield of Maguire and Lindelöf isn’t good enough to win much, I think Maguire will be exposed a whole lot more when our collective expectations go up next season. He is clumsy, the best teams and attackers will challenge him on the floor and succeed. Luke Shaw isn’t top standard, we need a much better left-back. Since AWB is the Neville, we need the Evra on the left. The Ferguson-approach.
And why not throw in a bastard of a central midfielder, someone that’s first on the sheet every game..who can that be?
Can you advise us on the implications of not qualifying for CL please? Exact figures would be nice.
Can you advise for example how much cash goes straight into our bank account the moment we qualify for the CL. Also, given this deal is financed over the course of his contract, can you advise what the implications of not qualifying for the CL for the four seasons after would be on this deal?
I’d be particularly interested to know the difference between being knocked out in the group stages of a crowdless CL as opposed to going all the way to the final of the Europa League?
Can you tell me what transfer fees United are going to bring in over the next five years and what wages will be coming and going from the payroll?
All this information is involved how clubs pay for transfers/player costs which is why whether we beat Leicester next week or not is totally irrelevant.
It’s not like being given a certain amount of money by your mum to go to the toy shop.
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When we sign him I don't think we'll get a decade out of him, like others think. He'll still have a move to Real/Barca in him in 5 or 6 years. As long as we get a big fee and trophies out of him, that's football.
Barca will be lucky if they can sign the likes of Zaha without exchanging somebody like Dembele
I felt sorry for them until their new presidents comment recently about being careful not to become another AC Milan or United. Cheeky feck.
Barca are about to enter a banter era similar to us/Milan when Messi calls quits and Madrid will likely have signed Haaland and Mbappe whilst already having Vinicius/Rodrygo in their books. He could well stay for a long time.
Why do Manchester United fans always feel like this? An infeority complex when it comes to Real Madrid and Barcelona. Its a weird logic that I can never understand . I have never heard any City fan think like this ever since Abu Dhabi took over and brought in Aguero and all their stars. We buy players to win things for Manchester United, not to make profits by selling them to Madrid. As far as I know that is the business model at Dortmund.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/finances-europa-vs-champions-league.456228/#post-25764288
We made £28m 18/19 and £26m 17/18 profit before tax in the last two years but yeah we can can pay whatever Dortmund want regardless of income.
Ole wants him and for good reason. He's absolutely amazing.
Literally, finished checking when I saw this comment. So this is what I found out from various sources. From what I gather, there are a couple big financial implications if we do not qualify for CL:
- If we don't qualify for 2 consecutive years (like this season), our biggest sponsor Adidas will be cutting a certain amount from our £750m deal (form where we get £75m/year). They will most likely be paying us £22.5m less in total (distribute over the remainder of the deal). So that's a direct loss for us over next financial year.
- The direct financial benefit from playing in the CL for all clubs is around £80-100mn overall (incl. broadcasting, sponsors, etc etc). Meaning, teams which play in the CL receive a figure within that amount over the course of the season. Prize money is separate.
- Finally, I figure there are indirect benefits from playing in the CL. E.g. Gate receipts, merchandise, etc. The more games we play, the more money we get - simple. This will be around £20-25m.
These are not losses per se. But we are looking at a financial hit around £70-80m even if we play Europa, but don't play in the CL.
I've been trying to find out how much we would be spending on transfers but haven't reached a solid conclusion. For the past 2-3 seasons, our net spend has been roughly £140m (not exact). My guesstimate is that given the pandemic, our net spend will probably be £120m MAX this season.
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Good post and some solid pieces of information, but how much of that income loss would be offset by playing the EL? We wouldn't be skipping european football in total, so still earn some of the mentioned factors although in lesser fashion.
True. Didn't factor in Europa. Its roughly half of the CL it seems.
EDIT: recalculated.
Again, profit has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It’s like people have completely forgotten, or choose to conveniently ignore, the fact we signed Pogba for a world record fee during a Europa League season.
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His xA for the season is only 4.33 so that isn't really true. xA per 90 is roughly half that of Sancho. Sancho's xG is double his. Maximin seems like a good enough player but Sancho is younger and already way ahead in terms of productivity. Also, is Maximin not primarily a left winger.
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People don’t have a great understanding of how transfers work, the structure/moratorium of payments etc.
I’m sure many read an article saying “United in for £100m Sancho” and expect us to be emptying £100 million from our bank account before the lad arrives.
Agreed. I like Bailly, but Ole seems to favour Lindelof, but Lindelof doesn't give me a great deal of confidence I'm afraid. So do we go for an experienced CB, one with a bit of pace, or hope that Tuanzebe gets over all his injury problems. Mengi looks a real prospect, but very young, do we send him on loan for a season, or give him the odd run out in cup games? RW is obviously Sancho, if he comes, so that leaves DM position. Matic will be here for two more seasons, but will need to be replaced, and it looks to me like McTominay may be being groomed for that position. Probably not good enough yet, but with coaching, he could become a good DM, but most importantly, he needs to have the ability to spot danger before it happens. Think we are in the early stages of getting a very good team, one that is able to compete for the top prizes, and with Sancho, we will have a front four, including Greenwood, that could be the envy of every European team.
Last year our costs included 180m of transfer spend. We could still easily afford Sancho even in the unlikely event we decided to pay all upfront.
Tell that to the Glazers.
Was that a period where we had no gate receipts and after spending £50m in the January?
Genuinely feels like this is one of those transfers that is so obviously going to happen, I'd probably say if it doesn't happen it'll be the most surprising non transfer in the muppet era
I don't think we'll want the distraction of an ongoing transfer saga in the middle of a top 4 and FA cup race. Still expect things to keep running on the background but expecting the real push on this transfer to only happen once the season has ended
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