We've not been playing well over the last few games but Leicester are playing much worse. They dropped 15 points against us in the second half of the season, don't see anyone else calling them bottlers. Let's just win or draw and hopefully the moaning will stop, at least for a day or two.Geez you're going to keep rubbing that math fail in ain't you?
I didn't out my point across as well as I'd have liked to be honest, just saying if we'd have won today the pressure to win wouldn't be as great as it is now, which I don't think we cope well with (yes, I know a draw against Leicester is enough!)
PL D FA Premier League
Manchester United 1:1 West Ham United
Post-match discussion
Wed, 22 July 2020
Pogba - We might well finish 5th and miss out on champions league qualification because Paul Pogba didn't want to risk getting hit in the face with a football. Yet you will still get people on here telling you he is our best player. They will still say it after he plays again on Sunday and produces another performance better suited to a playground. Some fans get exactly what they ask for and then still don't like or understand it.
Bottle - If you're wondering why we seem to lack bottle as a team, see above. If you still don't get it then you probably don't understand what bottle is.
Matic - He played well for three games and now he's going to get picked forever despite today reaching about the standard you'd expect from someone who was declared dead in 1902. It was actually embarassing how bad he was today. He was literally 5-10 seconds off the pace at times.
Fred/McTominay - They are a more effective partnership than Pogba/Matic. I know the resident maniacs wont want to accept it, but in the months leading up to lockdown we had a consistent and effective midfield. Now we have one that played well against Brighton and for half hour against Bournemouth, and then hasn't been seen since. Fred and McTominay have proven over the season that they can be effective, work hard in every game, cover the ground needed and be relied upon. It is up to Pogba and Matic to prove they can fit themselves into that, not the other fecking way around as it has become. Ole wont change it and now our only proven effective midfield partnership is completely devoid of match fitness. We will be lucky to win another game before next season.
Ole - I understood not wanting to make changes after the first few post lockdown games when we had been playing well. We've been absolute dogshite for four games in a row now. We were beyond dogshite today and instead of changing it he effectively laid the blame on a player who's barely kicked a ball all season. Last few games to be honest I've had no fecking clue what Ole is playing at. It's been a shitshow. It's like he's letting the opposition bench manage us.
Bottle - If you're wondering why we seem to lack bottle as a team, see above. If you still don't get it then you probably don't understand what bottle is.
Matic - He played well for three games and now he's going to get picked forever despite today reaching about the standard you'd expect from someone who was declared dead in 1902. It was actually embarassing how bad he was today. He was literally 5-10 seconds off the pace at times.
Fred/McTominay - They are a more effective partnership than Pogba/Matic. I know the resident maniacs wont want to accept it, but in the months leading up to lockdown we had a consistent and effective midfield. Now we have one that played well against Brighton and for half hour against Bournemouth, and then hasn't been seen since. Fred and McTominay have proven over the season that they can be effective, work hard in every game, cover the ground needed and be relied upon. It is up to Pogba and Matic to prove they can fit themselves into that, not the other fecking way around as it has become. Ole wont change it and now our only proven effective midfield partnership is completely devoid of match fitness. We will be lucky to win another game before next season.
Ole - I understood not wanting to make changes after the first few post lockdown games when we had been playing well. We've been absolute dogshite for four games in a row now. We were beyond dogshite today and instead of changing it he effectively laid the blame on a player who's barely kicked a ball all season. Last few games to be honest I've had no fecking clue what Ole is playing at. It's been a shitshow. It's like he's letting the opposition bench manage us.
Moaners can shut up. I fecking hate knee jerks in here.
Im not buying this tired nonsense, its not like they've been playing the whole season nonstop. They had a fecking long ass break due to the virus.
Reckon the plan was to wrap up a CL spot then revert to Fred/McT in the Europa. Might not be going to plan.
The fact is, the players that have come in during the post-lockdown games haven’t been up to snuff. If any of them had laid a marker down they’d have worked their way in to the team, but during our purple patch we got noticeably worse whenever any of the second string players got minutes. Not very encouraging is it?
Personally feel it’s a symptom of the lockdown, and we’ll see a more normal rotation of players next season when the fixture list is more normal, and we (hopefully) have some additions to the squad.
The fact is, the players that have come in during the post-lockdown games haven’t been up to snuff. If any of them had laid a marker down they’d have worked their way in to the team, but during our purple patch we got noticeably worse whenever any of the second string players got minutes. Not very encouraging is it?
Personally feel it’s a symptom of the lockdown, and we’ll see a more normal rotation of players next season when the fixture list is more normal, and we (hopefully) have some additions to the squad.
You really wouldn't know that we haven't lost in the league since January (against the champions with no Bruno,Rashford or Pogba) given the reaction in the matchday/post match thread anytime we don't win
Our starters have to be sold and Ole must be sacked any time we slip up irregardless of the fact that we've been the best side on form in the country since the restart
Suddenly we're shit and very lucky.You really wouldn't know that we haven't lost in the league since January (against the champions with no Bruno,Rashford or Pogba) given the reaction in the matchday/post match thread anytime we don't win
Our starters have to be sold and Ole must be sacked any time we slip up irregardless of the fact that we've been the best side on form in the country since the restart
Ugh, I don't know what to say to these people, I'd rather just read and be patient until we finished the season.
To the moaners, dip on form is a normal thing in football.
The constant moaning is part of the bargain on any internet forum.
We went into the season having no expectation whatsoever of finishing in the top two, we were without Pogba and Rashford for a long stretch of time, and here we are now, in a position to finish third and no worse than fourth with a draw in our final league match.
A draw was all we needed today, we got the draw and only need a draw against Leicester City. A bit of moaning is expected after a draw with a Moyes side, but let's keep the result in perspective. The CL is within our grasp and if we pull that off we almost definitely are bringing in Sancho, who will vastly improve our attack and allow Greenwood to develop at the pace he needs to develop at.
We went into the season having no expectation whatsoever of finishing in the top two, we were without Pogba and Rashford for a long stretch of time, and here we are now, in a position to finish third and no worse than fourth with a draw in our final league match.
A draw was all we needed today, we got the draw and only need a draw against Leicester City. A bit of moaning is expected after a draw with a Moyes side, but let's keep the result in perspective. The CL is within our grasp and if we pull that off we almost definitely are bringing in Sancho, who will vastly improve our attack and allow Greenwood to develop at the pace he needs to develop at.
We're tired and our second string are so shit, Ole can't risk playing them because they'll feck up. Hopefully we can do the job at Leicester and hobble over the finish line.
I've not been as vocal a critic of Pogba as others have been but I have to say, that handball was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen done by a United player on the pitch. People mock Phil Jones for the way he headed a ball while he was on the ground to prevent Giroud from having it a couple of years back, but that's less embarrassing and more commendable than actually putting your hands up to avoid getting hit with the ball, like some schoolkid who'd just played football.
I've not been as vocal a critic of Pogba as others have been but I have to say, that handball was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen done by a United player on the pitch. People mock Phil Jones for the way he headed a ball while he was on the ground to prevent Giroud from having it a couple of years back, but that's less embarrassing and more commendable than actually putting your hands up to avoid getting hit with the ball, like some schoolkid who'd just played football.
Well, it was clearly a handball offense as there's no exception for personal protection in the situation when the hand/arm moves deliberately to block a shot. But should Pogba have taken one for the team in his face? He didn't have a lot of time to think it through -- it was a reflex action on a wicked shot from point blank range.
Now that I think about it, it's strange that we don't see this happen more often. That is, a shot sent straight into the face of someone in the wall or a defender, or keeper. It would be poor form and start a fight if it was believed the shot was intentional, but it's still strange we don't see this more often.
Now that I think about it, it's strange that we don't see this happen more often. That is, a shot sent straight into the face of someone in the wall or a defender, or keeper. It would be poor form and start a fight if it was believed the shot was intentional, but it's still strange we don't see this more often.
Right. We’ve all had a good moan, justifiably.
Nothing can change where we are and there’s just one game to go.
I reckon Chelsea will easily beat Wolves. I hope I’m wrong though.
So we just need a draw against Leicester and we’re there.
Based on our last 4 games, I’m not very confident though.
Nothing can change where we are and there’s just one game to go.
I reckon Chelsea will easily beat Wolves. I hope I’m wrong though.
So we just need a draw against Leicester and we’re there.
Based on our last 4 games, I’m not very confident though.
If we'd bagged one of the early chances i think we'd have won comfortably but we faded as the half went on, and another class goal from Mason unfortunately didn't spark a second half onslaught on west ham's goal.
The good news is we showed we can still put in 40 minutes of good play and I think the LC match will go the same way. We will dominate the first 40 minutes or so. The season really comes down to can we score at least one in that first half. If yes, we probably win easily because we will be able to hit them on the counter in the 2nd when they have to push up. If no, it will be a nerve wracking 2nd half.
The other scenario, though, is if Wolves go up early vs Chelsea I can see LC just playing for a draw as that will get them through if Wolves can hold on.
Remember, we still get 4th if we lose and Chelsea lose. That's a possibility.
I'm not sure my stomach can take this drama.
The other scenario, though, is if Wolves go up early vs Chelsea I can see LC just playing for a draw as that will get them through if Wolves can hold on.
Remember, we still get 4th if we lose and Chelsea lose. That's a possibility.
I'm not sure my stomach can take this drama.
Fred and McTominay played against Norwich, were absolute shite and had to be subbed off for us to get any control of the game against the worst side in the league. They've both also been pretty much terrible when starting or coming on as subs in the other games we've had after the break. Ole has been absolutely right going with Matic/Pogba.
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Neither am I, we've only played 10 games in 35 days, averaging a game every 86 hours. They should be able to do that easy because they didnt play for a few months! Surely the body can cope with such severe physical and mental drain. Jeez, they're shit.
Sarcasm aside, the problem is that the players had no pre season training to build up their fitness again. You could argue that they're professionals and should be able to keep fit during lockdown but given they couldn't train at Carrington or with their fitness coaches it would be difficult. We're basically having the Christmas period again. I do think we should have rotated a little more but given we were playing catch up and every point mattered I can understand why Ole didnt risk it. Perhaps he should have.
We'll see if we can get across the finishing line.
Ok. Lets forget them being tired for a second despite playing 2 to 3 times a week for the past three or so weeks with mostly ( almost completely) the same xi, the team has drawn two games since the run began in January and have looked tactically and quality wise better than we have since Fergie left. Instead of sympathizing with minor setbacks ( draws that Liverpool and City can get), our fans are bashing the team's mentality and the competency of the manager that got us here by growing. As a team, our fans should be aware that we are growing as a team and holes in the squad that cannot be fixed before the season ends.
Weird mindset for the players, not sure it's every happened before at the business end of the season, you win 2-0 and it isn't any better than drawing 0-0, 1-1 or 2-2, not surprised the players didn't know whether to twist or stick.
If men are like battery, then yes they can be charged and sleep according to a schedule. Since Restart we have been playing non-stop 2-games a week. Tell me how much game time did Fred, McTom, FM, Williams have before this game. How many minutes did Bruno have?
The only way what Pogba did can cost us top 4 is if we lose to Leicester and Chelsea draw against Wolves.
Whenever we get a chance to put some proper pressure on Leicester or Chelsea we get racked with Nerves.
Feels like there are too many players in this squad who look unable to perform when the pressure has been at his highest.
Feels like there are too many players in this squad who look unable to perform when the pressure has been at his highest.
The reason you don't see that more often is that on free kicks close to the box, there is something called a wall, constituted by players who know a shot is coming straight at them, and deal with it without looking like they just saw a spider and were horrified
You want to know what irony is?
Last season we missed UCL because our keeper wouldn't save easy shots, and this season we might miss it because our midfielder saved a screamer.
Last season we missed UCL because our keeper wouldn't save easy shots, and this season we might miss it because our midfielder saved a screamer.
When Pogba put his hands up to shield his face, the first player i remembered was Nemanja Vidic. Wouldn't have blinked in the face of that hit. Such a fall from the standards we used to maintain.
Spurs, Southampton, and Burnley only lost 1. We're second in the post-lockdown table behind City on goal difference.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=30&max=38
most of Leicester's problems have been away from home, haven't they? They are better at home which leaves me worried
So, what pisses you off is somebody else's opinion and not what you see happening on the pitch?
We had a great run but due to failings in the earlier part of the season we stayed in 5th albeit having made up lots of points on those above in 3rd and 4th.
It's widely accepted that Leicester's collapse in form is as much to do with the gap reducing as our improvement since the new year.
The "somehow" comes in when you consider that within the last fortnight Leicester were walloped by Bournemouth, Chelsea by Sheff Utd and we've laboured to draws with piss poor performances at home against lower level teams with virtually nothing to play for when we've been going for a CL spot.
But, don't worry yourself, forget about the team's performances and the strong possibility of actually missing out on next season's CL, you carry on getting pissed off with me.
There are some painful posts in here, the fragility is embarrassing. When you watch football, you’re watching other people doing their jobs, moving their lives on, and achieving success or failure. They owe you nothing, your satisfaction will come from your own life. If you get this angry about Man Utd’s players doing this or that, there are issues beyond watching a football match to deal with.
Anyhow, a point against West Ham who are flying right now. On course for a second best positional finish since SAF retired. And That would be real progress given how good the first eleven looks at its best. CL will be vital as high quality players need to be added to provide a proper first 11 squad rather than a great first 11, and and cover. I hope McTominay Williams and others develop quickly too.
Anyhow, a point against West Ham who are flying right now. On course for a second best positional finish since SAF retired. And That would be real progress given how good the first eleven looks at its best. CL will be vital as high quality players need to be added to provide a proper first 11 squad rather than a great first 11, and and cover. I hope McTominay Williams and others develop quickly too.
part of me wants us to draw and Chelsea to lose!
At home, they:
- drew 0-0 with Brighton
- lost 1-0 to Chelsea in the FA Cup
- beat Crystal Palace 3-0 and Sheffield United 2-0
They rarely concede at home and in the last two home games they looked very good going forward as well. Which means that we badly need a favour from Wolves.
At a minimum he could have just ducked out of the way. But you never throw your hands up like that.
Not sure anyone can continue to argue with what I've been saying for two years (in fact almost as long as when he re-signed): if Pogba is world class, I'm the president of the United States! He's a liability... lost count how often in the past few games he's given the ball away (or been easily dispossessed) in really dangerous areas. Last night, he didn't look to be bothered, strolling around arrogantly and making very ordinary players look good. This was summed up by the ridiculous penalty he gave away but his attitude stinks so often that I really hope Madrid or Juve are stupid enough to take him off our hands.
Too often, he didn't put in the effort in 50-50 challenges or pick up lose/secondary balls. Noble looked more world class than him. And, no, I don't think he fits that well with Bruno; I think Bruno sometimes makes him look better than his is - as did the Juve midfield, as did the French midfield.
Admittedly, he is not the only way who has dropped off in the past few games but at least they don't look to be not trying/not caring.
Martial did his famous disappearing trick last night, Rashford struggled, Matic looked slow and Ole proved one again to have no Plan B. It is very clear that when Bruno has a less-than-brilliant game, we revert to the woeful version of ourselves. Once again, we failed to break down a team who came and defended half decently. They definitely had the men of the match in Johnson and Bowen.
I just don't understand the playing at half pace: game after game this season, we've seen how that ends up. We never seem to learn. The one pacy move we put together ripped their defence apart and thank goodness it fell to Greenwood.
For me, United's best player was probably Lindelof and at the moment I don't see us finishing in the top four (unless Wolves do us a massive favour) and I'm not sure we really deserve to.
Too often, he didn't put in the effort in 50-50 challenges or pick up lose/secondary balls. Noble looked more world class than him. And, no, I don't think he fits that well with Bruno; I think Bruno sometimes makes him look better than his is - as did the Juve midfield, as did the French midfield.
Admittedly, he is not the only way who has dropped off in the past few games but at least they don't look to be not trying/not caring.
Martial did his famous disappearing trick last night, Rashford struggled, Matic looked slow and Ole proved one again to have no Plan B. It is very clear that when Bruno has a less-than-brilliant game, we revert to the woeful version of ourselves. Once again, we failed to break down a team who came and defended half decently. They definitely had the men of the match in Johnson and Bowen.
I just don't understand the playing at half pace: game after game this season, we've seen how that ends up. We never seem to learn. The one pacy move we put together ripped their defence apart and thank goodness it fell to Greenwood.
For me, United's best player was probably Lindelof and at the moment I don't see us finishing in the top four (unless Wolves do us a massive favour) and I'm not sure we really deserve to.
point-blank range? I suggest you look at it again!
We made a lot of changes for the Norwich game and we didn't exactly get control by subbing anyone off either. We got control because Norwich had a player sent off and then we laboured horribly to winning in the last minute of extra time despite having nearly 40 minutes against 10 men.
Fred and McTominay both look like they lack match sharpness to me, which isn't surprising as we're barely using them. The thing is them two and Matic/Pogba have all been at the club a long time and we know enough about them. We KNOW Pogba will play well for 3-4 games and then his performances drop off a clliff. We KNOW Matic is too slow and is not ablle to cover ground quickly enough, and we KNOW this problem is intensified by playing him next to Pogba. So we KNOW this partnership does not work. Just ignorantly sticking with it game after game isn't going to make it magically change. It hasn't worked for 4 years. Expecting it to work now is just stupidity r stubborness.
We couldn't beat Southampton because Matic couldn't hack their pressing. We couldn't beat or even play against West Ham because neither Matic or Pogba wanted to play with any level of intensity at all. If you think it will be any different against Leicester, when their entire season is riding on the game, then you're kidding yourself. Pogba will bottle and try to play at his own pace as he always does, and Matic doesn't have the legs for it no matter how hard he might try.
They are better foootballers than either Fred or McTominay but as a partnershiip they simply do not function. It's plain as day. I agreed with not changing it when we were playing well, but it was always going to have a shelf life, particularly as other teams got their match fitness levels back up. Honestly the last time our midfield performed was against Bournemouth, and they only really showed up when it was already 4-2. Every game since then our front line has been creating things off their on back rather than getting any reliable service and our defence has been exposed.
We can sometimes get away with that against teams like Aston Villa but it isn't a great idea against team's in the same part of the table as us. Evidently it also isn't a great idea against teams that are very slightly better than Aston Villa.
No its not my opinion, or me trying to put a positive spin of things. Its literally how a league table works. We are in 3rd because we've done much better, and accumulated more points, than those around us in the last dozen or so games. That is a positive thing and should be seen as a positive.
Me being pissed off is simply due to the trend on here of people trying to put a negative spin on things because they have an agenda against the manager. Your agenda causes you to turn that postive into a negative, just because we haven't been completely perfect, so instead of being happy that we are now 3rd and only needing a point, or perhaps not even that, you believe we are fortunate to be there.
Tired, don't believe this. Some need a kick up the backside. We need a keano type, to push them over the line.
Give me another crappy 1-1 next Sunday. It will be enough.
Yes but since we lost to Liverpool back in January, we have only dropped points away to Spurs when we drew in the league, Most of our points we've dropped since then have been at home including the last two.
Anyway if someone had offered us, six months ago, CL qualification if we get a draw in our last game we'd have bitten their hand off. Of course if Chelsea lose we can even lose as well. Had a few mediocre displays , now time to finish it off.
Glad it's not just me. I'm no pogba hater but sometimes I think I must be on another planet when people talk about how talented and incredible he is...
He is often poor, usually okay, sometimes good, never world class. Really don't get the fuss over him.
pogba can only be a cherry on top of the cake at best. we should have learnt that after all the years he has been here. he isn't a zlatan or even rooney type character who will lift those around him, people are barking up the wrong tree if they are expecting that. Occasionally he will score a screamer, play a defence splitting pass and go on a majestic run like a gazelle which will get people purring over here but he just isnt reliable enough to be our crown jewel. In our own midfield both Matic and Bruno are already better leaders despite being both being less talented than him and one being well past it.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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15%
Harry Maguire
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8%
Anthony Martial
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5%
Nemanja Matic
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3%
David de Gea
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1%
Victor Lindelof
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1%
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
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1%
Paul Pogba
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 303 ratings.
Score Predictions
230,11,15
- Man Utd win
- West Ham win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 18% Man Utd 2:0 West Ham
- 17% Man Utd 3:0 West Ham
- 17% Man Utd 2:1 West Ham
- 16% Man Utd 3:1 West Ham
- 9% Man Utd 4:0 West Ham
- 5% Man Utd 5:0 West Ham
- 4% Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
- 3% Man Utd 4:1 West Ham
- 3% Man Utd 1:1 West Ham
- 2% Man Utd 2:2 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 1:2 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 0:0 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 1:4 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 0:3 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 0:1 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 3:2 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 0:5 West Ham
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- West Ham
- Possession
- 57% 43%
- Shots
- 11 12
- Shots on Target
- 4 3
- Corners
- 2 3
- Fouls
- 10 9
Referee
Paul Tierney
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Aaron Wan-Bissaka
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replaced by Odion Ighalo
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