[Craig Ward]

If you analyze the season as a whole - we are in a much better position with 1 game left than most would have thought possible.

We have to look at some positives as well as negatives.

Yes there are flaws in the squad and flaws in every single game, from various players.

We should have beaten Southampton and we should have beaten West Ham. We've played well and dropped a little which is disappointing, but we are still in a good league position overall.

The FA Cup Semi was a disaster and really sums us up. We look good some games, and when we aren't at it 100% we look like a mid to bottom of table team. We have this unique ability for our top talents to look extremely ordinary. Basically, screams of an attitude issue to me.

Winning breeds confidence and we have shown signs of grafting results on times, so the bulk of the players are capable of fighting for results. Just a shame when there are so many errors that are easily avoided.

For me, the West Ham game was hard to watch. We had chances, and didnt take them. If we get the lead, its a relatively straight forward win. We didnt, we paid for it.

Pogba gifts a penalty and we are behind. I wont be too harsh on Pogba cos he didnt cost us the victory overall, but it certainly doesnt help when another error like that gifts them a goal. Abysmal decision and cowardice from Pogba it has to be said. But we still, despite that still should have won. We invite pressure and more often than not when you play so sloppily you will be punished. For a team with our defensive record you'd think we would be hard to break down - but we look calamitous at the back. Im amazed we dont take 3-0 drubbings game after game. I feel like every player has a defensive error in them - we never look assured at the back yet on paper the stats look quite good.

Few points:
- Pogba looked amazing when he first come back into the team - he;s back to normal now. Flashes of brilliance but layered with inconsistency and poor decisions. It's almost like he knows he's going to start so he doesnt play with any desire or motivation. Shame cos i was starting to think he turned a corner.
- Matic. He's our only DM and really helps our team shape and set up. Sadly, he cant maintain his usual level with so many games. We are desperate for a top quality addition there
- Collectively, we dont seem capable of passing the ball with any speed. Our entire distribution is slow, lazy, predictable. Just dire sideways/backwards football at a snails pace. Maguire and Lindelof are shocking at this, Matic/Pogba not far behind. If we had more people working hard to get into space and used the ball quicker, we wouldnt be so bloody easy to contain. We make it so easy for the opposition to get in shape and cancel us out. We have to play with more intensity.
- Fitness. Thought this was a plan of Ole's for us to be the fittest, hardest working team in the league? Whats happened to that? We look shattered and it's pretty much inexcusable at this point.

On paper - dont lose to Leicester sounds like a dream but im really nervy. Going to be a nail biter on Sunday thats for sure

 

[Rolaholic]

Can't wait for Sunday for all this reactionary doom and gloom/sky is falling/blow it all up talk to be over with.

There are 9 possible scenarios involving us, Chelsea and Leicester on Sunday and 7 of them would have us qualifying for CL football, fairly confident we'll get the job done and be able to move on and look forward to improving the squad during the extended transfer window.

If we can't manage a single point then quite frankly we don't deserve it but we haven't lost much in 2020 and Leicester are in dire form right now so I'll take our chances.

We've got a much better foundation to build on than at any other time post-Fergie but you wouldn't know it from some of these hysterical reactions regardless of us still being in better form than just about every team since the restart

 

[Tom Cato]

All I want on Sunday when the final whistle blows is for every single player on this team to keel over from sheer exhaustion after working their asses off continiously since the first whistle. It's not that much to ask for

 

[JohnnyKills]

Can't wait for Sunday for all this reactionary doom and gloom/sky is falling talk to be over with.

There are 9 possible scenarios involving us, Chelsea and Leicester on Sunday and 7 of them would have us qualifying for CL football, fairly confident we'll get the job done and be able to move on and look forward to improving the squad during the extended transfer window.

If we can't manage a single point then quite frankly we don't deserve it but we haven't lost much in 2020 and Leicester are in dire form right now so I'll take our chances.

We've just got to somehow find a way to sneak over the line. The players are out on their feet, let's hope we can nick a goal somewhere and come away with a 1-1. That would be just lovely.

 

[gerdm07]

Not sure anyone can continue to argue with what I've been saying for two years (in fact almost as long as when he re-signed): if Pogba is world class, I'm the president of the United States! He's a liability... lost count how often in the past few games he's given the ball away (or been easily dispossessed) in really dangerous areas. Last night, he didn't look to be bothered, strolling around arrogantly and making very ordinary players look good. This was summed up by the ridiculous penalty he gave away but his attitude stinks so often that I really hope Madrid or Juve are stupid enough to take him off our hands.

Too often, he didn't put in the effort in 50-50 challenges or pick up lose/secondary balls. Noble looked more world class than him. And, no, I don't think he fits that well with Bruno; I think Bruno sometimes makes him look better than his is - as did the Juve midfield, as did the French midfield.

Admittedly, he is not the only way who has dropped off in the past few games but at least they don't look to be not trying/not caring.

Martial did his famous disappearing trick last night, Rashford struggled, Matic looked slow and Ole proved one again to have no Plan B. It is very clear that when Bruno has a less-than-brilliant game, we revert to the woeful version of ourselves. Once again, we failed to break down a team who came and defended half decently. They definitely had the men of the match in Johnson and Bowen.

I just don't understand the playing at half pace: game after game this season, we've seen how that ends up. We never seem to learn. The one pacy move we put together ripped their defence apart and thank goodness it fell to Greenwood.

For me, United's best player was probably Lindelof and at the moment I don't see us finishing in the top four (unless Wolves do us a massive favour) and I'm not sure we really deserve to.

Pogba is a world class player. Period. He is fatigued and probably playing with some minor injuries.

Martial did not disappear in the match last night. He was pretty good when he got the ball.

We were at half pace because we are tired.

If we finish top 4 we will deserve it, you can say we don't deserve it but it does not matter one iota.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

All I want on Sunday when the final whistle blows is for every single player on this team to keel over from sheer exhaustion after working their asses off continiously since the first whistle. It's not that much to ask for

Reading all the posts on here about tiredness, I’ll be surprised they don’t keel over from sheer exhaustion on the walk from the bus to the changing rooms.

 

[DSG]

That was fecking pathetic. Pogba is without a fecking doubt, the most overrated player in the world. Guy is a mediocre midfielder. He thinks he could do better than what United has been? feck, the way he's played for us, we should be looking to replace him, plain and simple. He's average who can do the random piece of good dribbling and that's it.

Silly from Pogba, sluggish from the rest. One moment of pure quality from Martial and Greenwood.

Just a little reminder that we're nowhere near ready to compete just yet.

In fairness though, a late winner wouldn't have changed the situation on Sunday - avoid defeat and qualify.

Pogba: Spineless.

That was just pathetic. Wouldn't have minded if we drew 2-2 having properly gone for it, instead of playing like we're some sort of mid table team with nothing left to play for.

And Pogba, he's brilliant when everything is rosy. After his mistake, he should have been going out in that second half giving 110% and trying to atone, he's got enough talent to do it, so it's time to start delivering, not when we're 2-0 up against Villa.

Pogba gifting points like candy

Careful mate, I got hounded on here a few weeks ago by some of the clueless Pogba fan boys.

I don't get Pogba's role in this game? He keeps passing to Matic / our defenders. What does he expect? You are the World Cup-winner, you are the one who cost £89mil. - maybe you should fecking try and do something.... terrible.

To be fair to Pogba he made a better save from that shot than De Gea would.

Pogba is finished at this level. Have been saying this since last year.

Pogba is well fecking Pogba

Our record signing, folks.

He's a World Cup winner (!) the fan boys said...

He's misunderstood....

He just needs quality around him... (!)

No. Feck no. He's a bottler. He has no heart. The 14th man on a Sunday league pub side knows not to throw his hands up in the box. What the wall is fecking for...?

And the response was... timid? Uninterested? Limp?

That's 4 points he has cost us because of stupid, stupid mistakes. We'd be in the CL if he was a winner, if he was "world-class" that all the Pogba fan boys say he is.

Defend him now. I dare you.

Will never be a United legend. I never want him in the shirt again.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Wow.

 

[DSG]

Pogba is a world class player. Period. He is fatigued and probably playing with some minor injuries.

Do world class players throw their hands up in the box? Wow. Different definition of world class we have. He's incredibly skilled, Pogba is. But he has no heart. No desire to win. Can you imagine Roy Keane's response if he was on the field with Pogba? It's a disgrace. He's a disgrace to the badge.

Do you even play? Have you played? You can see it in their eyes, your team mates. The ones that can't handle the pressure, that can't perform when in really matters. They play the 5 yd pass to just get rid of the ball. The real warriors leave it all on the field, injuries or no. Pogba is 27, he won't change. We'll never win the league with him, or the CL. Has to go.

 

[Sandikan]

Our record signing, folks.

He's a World Cup winner (!) the fan boys said...

He's misunderstood....

He just needs quality around him... (!)

No. Feck no. He's a bottler. He has no heart. The 14th man on a Sunday league pub side knows not to throw his hands up in the box. What the wall is fecking for...?

And the response was... timid? Uninterested? Limp?

That's 4 points he has cost us because of stupid, stupid mistakes. We'd be in the CL if he was a winner, if he was "world-class" that all the Pogba fan boys say he is.

Defend him now. I dare you.

Will never be a United legend. I never want him in the shirt again.

Bit silly.

I dare say if 100 players had a ball smashed at their face, even from 15 yards at least half would reflex their hands up.

Still makes it silly but doesn't mean you should get your personal grudge out of hibernation.

 

[gerdm07]

Do world class players throw their hands up in the box? Wow. Different definition of world class we have. He's incredibly skilled, Pogba is. But he has no heart. No desire to win. Can you imagine Roy Keane's response if he was on the field with Pogba? It's a disgrace. He's a disgrace to the badge.

Do you even play? Have you played? You can see it in their eyes, your team mates. The ones that can't handle the pressure, that can't perform when in really matters. They play the 5 yd pass to just get rid of the ball. The real warriors leave it all on the field, injuries or no. Pogba is 27, he won't change. We'll never win the league with him, or the CL. Has to go.

He is a WC and multiple Serie A winner and was a key player for both teams. That means he can handle the pressure and has the heart to win major trophies. At his best, and we've seen some of his best in the past month, he is one of the best midfielders in the world.

I'll bet if you search through the history of the game you will find other great players putting their hands up protecting their face. Or they turn their back with their arms out.

Yes, I did play.

 

[DSG]

Bit silly.

I dare say if 100 players had a ball smashed at their face, even from 15 yards at least half would reflex their hands up.

Still makes it silly but doesn't mean you should get your personal grudge out of hibernation.

This is what is wrong with the club culture, right there. Accountability. In the SAF days, Pogba would would have been benched after the mistake vs. Soton. He certainly would have been subbed off after this mistake.

Half the fan base has excuse after excuse for Pogba. I guess it's the half that would have thrown their hands up?

 

[Buster15]

If they beat us on Sunday a win today wouldn't have helped. They'd finish ahead of us on goal difference barring us racking up a cricket score today.

All I want on Sunday when the final whistle blows is for every single player on this team to keel over from sheer exhaustion after working their asses off continiously since the first whistle. It's not that much to ask for

Certainly not too much to ask or expect.
But unfortunately, United don't play like that.
Simply because I rarely see them hungry enough.
I just hope they don't bottle it.

 

[DSG]

He is a WC and multiple Serie A winner and was a key player for both teams. That means he can handle the pressure and has the heart to win major trophies. At his best, and we've seen some of his best in the past month, he is one of the best midfielders in the world.

I'll bet if you search through the history of the game you will find other great players putting their hands up protecting their face. Or they turn their back with their arms out.

Yes, I did play.

Disagree. On all three points. Every former player / pundit asked has said it was unacceptable by Pogba. He’s lucky he didn’t get a red card under the current rules.

 

[Gator Nate]

All I want on Sunday when the final whistle blows is for every single player on this team to keel over from sheer exhaustion after working their asses off continiously since the first whistle. It's not that much to ask for

Absolutely. And I won't be surprised if Ole makes some changes to the starting lineup with that in mind.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Our record signing, folks.

He's a World Cup winner (!) the fan boys said...

He's misunderstood....

He just needs quality around him... (!)

No. Feck no. He's a bottler. He has no heart. The 14th man on a Sunday league pub side knows not to throw his hands up in the box. What the wall is fecking for...?

And the response was... timid? Uninterested? Limp?

That's 4 points he has cost us because of stupid, stupid mistakes. We'd be in the CL if he was a winner, if he was "world-class" that all the Pogba fan boys say he is.

Defend him now. I dare you.

Will never be a United legend. I never want him in the shirt again.

Thought you were talking about Maguire for a second. If you are referring to Pogba, he has scored more goals for us than he did in a Juventus shirt, where no one can deny he was world class.

 

[Rolaholic]

Wow.

We finally have a preferred XI for the first time in ages, playing some of the most eye pleasing football in years, yet the takeaway some have after slowing down in form is to get rid of some of the quality in the squad we have instead of continuing to build on it

It should be expected at this point given how reactionary and over-emotional we can be as a fanbase but I'm glad that Ole, with his experience playing on some of our greatest sides, isn't and has shown a bit more foresight than that in terms of squad building...

 

[bosnian_red]

Thought you were talking about Maguire for a second. If you are referring to Pogba, he has scored more goals for us than he did in a Juventus shirt, where no one can deny he was world class.

Most definitely can. He was young with massive potential, in a 1 team league, with an incredible midfield behind him. He was always someone who could be truly world class, but never really showed the actual level of a world class player on a consistent basis (like what De Bruyne has done for example). And let's not bring up goalscoring stats, yeah hes normally good for around 10 a season but his goalscoring stats are about the same as Gylfi Sigurdsson. We going to claim he is world class because he scores 10 goals a year?

If Pogba was a world class player, he would show it on a weekly basis. Not have a very good performance once every month and then miss the next month through injury and have constant rumors about him in the mean time.

 

[Matriac]

We could really have used a player like Grealish in this game. His more direct playstyle, holding up the ball and winning fouls in front of goal would fit us better than Bruno's flair for a team of big men like West Ham are.

 

[DSG]

Most definitely can. He was young with massive potential, in a 1 team league, with an incredible midfield behind him. He was always someone who could be truly world class, but never really showed the actual level of a world class player on a consistent basis (like what De Bruyne has done for example). And let's not bring up goalscoring stats, yeah hes normally good for around 10 a season but his goalscoring stats are about the same as Gylfi Sigurdsson. We going to claim he is world class because he scores 10 goals a year?

If Pogba was a world class player, he would show it on a weekly basis. Not have a very good performance once every month and then miss the next month through injury and have constant rumors about him in the mean time.

This.

Breathtaking skill. But you have to ask yourself, would we be a better TEAM with someone with a gargantuan set of balls, but less skill in that position? Van DeBeek, Saul, Koke, Witsel, Kimmich, Veratti, etc.

 

[DSG]

Thought you were talking about Maguire for a second. If you are referring to Pogba, he has scored more goals for us than he did in a Juventus shirt, where no one can deny he was world class.

No. I have Pogba with 34 goals at Juve and 32 here. Given that you would expect these to be his prime years (23-27), a bit of a let down. Couple that with the eye test, injuries, the drama, and the bonehead mistakes, I don’t see how that is world class.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Most definitely can. He was young with massive potential, in a 1 team league, with an incredible midfield behind him. He was always someone who could be truly world class, but never really showed the actual level of a world class player on a consistent basis (like what De Bruyne has done for example). And let's not bring up goalscoring stats, yeah hes normally good for around 10 a season but his goalscoring stats are about the same as Gylfi Sigurdsson. We going to claim he is world class because he scores 10 goals a year?

If Pogba was a world class player, he would show it on a weekly basis. Not have a very good performance once every month and then miss the next month through injury and have constant rumors about him in the mean time.

That's like saying Messi isn't all that because he plays in an amazing team that is built around him. Pogba made team of the year in all three seasons in serie a, so even if he had a strong midfield around him he was still the best of the bunch. He was also shortlisted for ballon d'or in his last year at Juve. To deny that he was world class when we signed him is just silly.

And why shouldn't I bring up goalscoring stats? If Sigurdsson can score double digits from midfield for us, I'm sure he will also be rated 60-80m+. You act as if its an easy task. When Bruno does it, we all cream ourselves, but when Pogba does it its like whatever.

 

[mu4c_20le]

No. I have Pogba with 34 goals at Juve and 32 here. Given that you would expect these to be his prime years (23-27), a bit of a let down. Couple that with the eye test, injuries, the drama, and the bonehead mistakes, I don’t see how that is world class.

I meant to say he did it in less games. 127 apps for Juve, 107 here, despite having a war with one of our managers and being benched for McTominay for a period.

 

[DSG]

I meant to say he did it in less games. 127 apps for Juve, 107 here, despite having a war with one of our managers and being benched for McTominay for a period.

I mean, if we are cutting in that thin, isn't my point made? Why do you think he was having a war with the manager??

 

[MikeeMike]

As I said before, we have lost the confidence / belief / tactics to break down teams at home.
For me we are way too cagey and then typical away team goal on the break. Countless times in last few seasons.
Cant remember last time we recovered easily from a goal down at home.

 

[Siorac]

I mean, if we are cutting in that thin, isn't my point made? Why do you think he was having a war with the manager??

The manager we're talking about is Mourinho: he's always at war with someone. If it had been left up to him, we wouldn't have Martial now.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I mean, if we are cutting in that thin, isn't my point made? Why do you think he was having a war with the manager??

I brought it up, as well as comparing his time at juve, was to say that he hasn't been completely useless here as some always seem to make it out to be. You even nailed the truth yourself in one of the lines in your poem, he needs quality around him to shine. He will never be that guy you expect him to be. When the team isn't doing well he won't be the guy to try and pick everyone up like Bruno does, that's like expecting Keane to dust someone off and shake their hand after sending them flying with a hard tackle. What he is though, is a very important and unique piece of the puzzle when we ARE doing well, he will add that much of extra quality to help us kill off games and make things easier.

 

[Siorac]

As I said before, we have lost the confidence / belief / tactics to break down teams at home.
For me we are way too cagey and then typical away team goal on the break. Countless times in last few seasons.
Cant remember last time we recovered easily from a goal down at home.

We very quickly equalised after conceding first in each of our last three home games. Even turned it around almost immediately against Bournemouth and Southampton.

 

[DSG]

To Pogba fanboys @mu4c_20le and @Siorac -- happy to take this to a Pogba thread.

I dared you to defend him and you rose to the challenge. I will say that Pogba Island seems to get smaller and smaller....

I brought it up, as well as comparing his time at juve, was to say that he hasn't been completely useless here as some always seem to make it out to be. You even nailed the truth yourself in one of the lines in your poem, he needs quality around him to shine. He will never be that guy you expect him to be. When the team isn't doing well he won't be the guy to try and pick everyone up like Bruno does, that's like expecting Keane to dust someone off and shake their hand after sending them flying with a hard tackle. What he is though, is a very important and unique piece of the puzzle when we ARE doing well, he will add that much of extra quality to help us kill off games and make things easier.

I guess we have different definitions of world class. For me, you're not world class unless by sheer will, effort, desire, intelligence and, yes, skill, you can impose your influence on the match and snatch a win from nothing.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I wasn't trying to challenge you, honest, I legit thought you were talking about Maguire with the first line because i'm still not sure why we broke the record on him. You only got all those reactions about Pogba because he was directly and stupidly at fault for the goal

 

[Rolaholic]

As I said before, we have lost the confidence / belief / tactics to break down teams at home.
For me we are way too cagey and then typical away team goal on the break. Countless times in last few seasons.
Cant remember last time we recovered easily from a goal down at home.

Quite literally did this a few weeks ago against Bournemouth

 

[devips]

I remember Pogba committing a similar handball in the penalty box against Liverpool a few years back and conceding a penalty.

 

[ghagua]

One thing that is concerning me is the amount of possession lost by Bruno. I understand that he will lose the ball when trying pull off a move to an attacking player, but he loses the ball in simple situations way too often. He also should recognize the situation and try not to play the killer pass every time, when simply retaining the ball might be a better solution when your team is under pressure. This is not tiredness, it's simple fact that he overdoes it trying to make a killer pass every time he gets the ball. Sometimes when you are under pressure, ball retention becomes huge.

 

[gerdm07]

One thing that is concerning me is the amount of possession lost by Bruno. I understand that he will lose the ball when trying pull off a move to an attacking player, but he loses the ball in simple situations way too often. He also should recognize the situation and try not to play the killer pass every time, when simply retaining the ball might be a better solution when your team is under pressure. This is not tiredness, it's simple fact that he overdoes it trying to make a killer pass every time he gets the ball. Sometimes when you are under pressure, ball retention becomes huge.

There is such a thing as mental fatigue too. I do agree with most of what you said though.

 

[lex talionis]

The reason you don't see that more often is that on free kicks close to the box, there is something called a wall, constituted by players who know a shot is coming straight at them, and deal with it without looking like they just saw a spider and were horrified

The ball wasn't struck from the free kick spot. Walls break down once the shot is taken on the second touch, as this one did. The shot was a rocket (mph?). I'm completely on board with the argument that Pogba should taken the hit without raising his hands, but his reaction to throw his hands up to protect his face was understandable. That's all.

 

[lex talionis]

Some of these posts are way over the top.

Yes, it's absolutely the case that even if we finish in third place we should all be disappointed. Even if we expected a third place finish when the season began we expect our expectations to be exceeded -- which actually makes sense. But we're going finish about where we expected, which is just not good enough given the 800m or whatever the net spend has been since Ferguson stepped down. We have a massive final league match coming up (we're going to win the EL for good measure, which as I understand guarantees us Pot 1.) and we have to get behind the boys. Let's get behind the boys.

 

[Bilbo]

All I want on Sunday when the final whistle blows is for every single player on this team to keel over from sheer exhaustion after working their asses off continiously since the first whistle. It's not that much to ask for

Yes. Agree. I can already name a few that without doubt will leave it all out there, but also quite a few where there are doubts. We still have work to do with this squad

 

[Siorac]

To Pogba fanboys @mu4c_20le and @Siorac -- happy to take this to a Pogba thread.

I dared you to defend him and you rose to the challenge. I will say that Pogba Island seems to get smaller and smaller....



I guess we have different definitions of world class. For me, you're not world class unless by sheer will, effort, desire, intelligence and, yes, skill, you can impose your influence on the match and snatch a win from nothing.

Okay, first, no need to be a dick about it.

Second, all I said was that a conflict with Jose fecking Mourinho of all people is indicative of exactly sweet feck all because the man could start a row in an empty house.

 

[poleglass red]

One thing that is concerning me is the amount of possession lost by Bruno. I understand that he will lose the ball when trying pull off a move to an attacking player, but he loses the ball in simple situations way too often. He also should recognize the situation and try not to play the killer pass every time, when simply retaining the ball might be a better solution when your team is under pressure. This is not tiredness, it's simple fact that he overdoes it trying to make a killer pass every time he gets the ball. Sometimes when you are under pressure, ball retention becomes huge.

Fernandes needs to retain possession in certain scenarios, I don't want to detract from his creativity but maybe reign it in a bit. I feel he, and Pogba if we go forward with these 2 need an absolute workhorse next to them with 3 lungs. Fernandes will lose possession, you just have to accept that, it's part of his game. Pogba won't charge around making tackles, he just doesn't. Problem now is, we have Matic as their cover, his positioning is good but once it's beaten he hasn't got the recovery pace to track and make a challenge. Give them 2 the proper cover they need and both their weaknesses won't be so evident, esp when they are feeling the pace, as both are undertstandably showing in recent games.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Now half a game in hand, and a two-goal deficit.

Thank god for that.