Because although he's paid like a star, he rarely plays like one for us.
Add all the the drama his brother and agent causes for his behalf, it's not surprising people gets tired of the bullshit related to him.
Should we consider selling Pogba?
- Thread starter pocco
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Add all the the drama his brother and agent causes for his behalf, it's not surprising people gets tired of the bullshit related to him.
I disagree but, assuming that you're right, that still doesn't mean those wanting to keep him aren't wanting what's best for us.
You obviously disagree, which is fine, but some still regard him as a quality player - in which we have few - and one of our best in general.
There is no evidence that proves he is ‘quality’. it’s just hyperbole based on being a fan of the player. I think those who want to keep him are Pogba fanboys who put the player before the club.
I could easily spend that £120m to deliver a far better yield over next 3 years.
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The OP question was originally ridiculous, and now its even more so. The only real argument that could possibly be made against Pogba was that he is unreliable and inconsistent and we would be doomed if he is our main man in the midfield. But now we have signed Van De Beek so even if Pogba performs poorly, he can easily be displaced by Van De Beek. So why on earth would we want to sell him now as he has unquestionably amazing talent and plausibly could lead us to glory.
If you truly believe that then you're letting your dislike of the player cloud your judgement.
As I said, I put club before players; I'm not a fanboy. Others put their like for the player above the club.
Doubt you'll find even one post of my criticising Pogba personality; I like for Pogba as a person and share many of his beliefs. I just don't think he's delivered against his investment; feel like he has taken advantage of the club, both as a youngster and a recent player. So I feel selling him is a worthy discussion.
For this conversation to continue, I'd like you to show me evidence of a return on £125m investment over 4 years. (£90m fee + £35m in wages). Else in fact its you who is allowing your fanboy outlook to cloud your judgement.
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No, but I think we would get the best out of him in the #10 role.
That isn't, and never has been, the case, and just because you disagree with their opinions doesn't change that.
Well, that's nice, but that makes it even weirder when you peddle the daft narrative of him being toxic, telling other fans to support other clubs because they defend him, and also accuse others of putting him before the club as well. It seems that those defending him really trigger you which is strange if you like him.
I've never said he was worth a world record fee, and I don't think the majority of those that want to keep him feel he was worth it either. That doesn't change the fact that - since joining in 2016 - he's been one of our best players and is right down at the bottom of players that need replacing/selling.
I don’t like Pogba at all. I find his attitude on the field when we are struggling to be unhelpful, he seems to whinge and his performance level drops - could never see him doing a Keane vs Juventus type performance. He seems a little spoilt and not really in the mould of players we are trying to recruit.
However, he has often been our best player and when the sun shines for him he looks an exceptional talent. It’s difficult to dispute the basic footballing quality he has and you can’t really form an argument based on stats or return on investment.
He could come good and I would not be actively looking to sell him but if we got a big offer I’d consider it. We have no slot-in replacement so we would have to buy someone - funnily on trend, Thiago is probably one of the best fits.
Lots and lots of words which said essentially nothing. Cool.
I disagree.
He’s best in the left side attack midfield role, but my worry with Pogba is he needs such a tailored set up to get the best out of him.
Is it worth all the hassle?
Weird how you talk about toxic fans given the way you talk to others in this thread.
State of this thread 
Quite pointless at the moment too given that's it's 150% a non-starter with Ole and the club but I suppose the caf needs the weekly 'F off Pogba!' circle jerks to decompress even during the offseason
Quite pointless at the moment too given that's it's 150% a non-starter with Ole and the club but I suppose the caf needs the weekly 'F off Pogba!' circle jerks to decompress even during the offseason
He was at his most devastating best for us playing in the AM role so the other poster has a point. But he can be great as well from the LCM position in a flat midfield three.
Most players can play in at least two positions without excelling in any but a player is more likely to excel with a position tailored for them. So it is strange to ask if Paul is worth the hassle when he has hardly ever played in any position tailored for him. We bought him playing in LCM position and deployed him deep; it is dumb, just because he is big and strong. It is like buying Zidane or Kaka and asking them to play deep.
If fans ask stuff like this and the club think so then we should let Paul go to Madrid where we enjoy his game to the fullest.
Whats so weird? I asked that poster for some specific input, but got nothing new in return.
If you don't like how I engage, dont engage with me.
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After 4 years, we are still here!!! Staggering that he hasn't evolved as he grows older.
Great analysis, which captures many things I feel every time I watch him.
So after taking up £120m of capital investment, we'd still need to invest another £120m (Partay+Alphonso type equivalents) just to get some value out of him?
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I'm not his biggest fan but I think we should keep hold of him because he's our best midfielder.
Am I doing this right?
Am I doing this right?
Thats a very good video. Really good analysis.
The question is does he justifying changing, and building the team around him?
You generally build a team around your best player, particularly if that player is a midfielder.
Yes, Paul is our best Player, by a distance I’d argue, and yes he is good enough to build a team around.
I would say generally most teams do not build around any 1 player, it creates weakness'.
The times that teams do that is when the player in question is amazingly good. Pirlo is an example.
I do not think hes close to that level, and I do not think hes our best player. Too many weakness'. What he does well, he does very well, but that is not a long list.
The question was should we build a team around Pogba. Nobody else in the team would enter that train of thought. He is comfortably our best midfielder, his ceiling is well above everybody in the side with the exclusion of Mason who's ceiling is potentially higher in years to come. His only weakness can be defensively which leads me onto my next sentence...
It actually doesn't take as much as you may think to 'build a team around' a player. In a sense that, to what extent does that term extend? For example, in my opinion, building a team around him would be to simply play him in his best position, left side of central midfield, and purchase a top level elite DM.
When you spend as much as we did on Pogba it does make sense to get the most out of that investment, otherwise to a degree it's a wasted investment. Like I say, I don't think that it takes that much to build the team around him, it just means looking at the acquisitions we make in the DM position and the positioning of the midfield personnel.
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I agree with both of you that Pogba is our best player in terms of 'talent' and absolutely the team should have been built around him. The issue is that because we have not been building the team around him for such a long time, the current direction of the team and the presence of Bruno means that a significant amount of money would need to be spent to get the best out of him and create an ideal environment for him. As good as Pogba is, he isn't Lionel Messi.. he's merely a very gifted 'world class' attacking mid - not in the bracket of Zidane or peak Kaka.
The presence and influence of Bruno (who is more versatile) means Pogba is slightly more disposable and would attract a large sum which can be spent on creating a better balanced side. For what it is worth I don't particularly trust Ed and Ole to do that and thus I would rather keep hold of Pogba rather than be led up the garden path thinking we are bringing in a world class CDM and Regista to play behind Bruno.
Yeah, I posted another post after this one, confirming that (imo) it doesn't take all that much to get the absolute best out of Pogba.
The one thing we've been missing is a world class DM. Matic can do a good job of this for spells but I feel we need an original Kante type, which in itself is another big investment, however it's the ying to Pogba's yang in a sense. You don't get the very best from Paul without a top level DM sweeping up imo.
Pogba and Kante with Bruno ahead of them is perfection. You can keep Bruno in the no. 10 whilst allowing a bit of freedom to Pogba. Not to mention that an elite DM brings a much needed balance to the team that we need with or without Pogba.
So that video analysis highlights other weakness' not just defensive.
Building around him affects the other players, it restricts them or puts them into a position/role that might not suit them the best. It also restricts where we spend our money and on what kind of player.
I would argue Bruno is better, but even then I would say hes not good enough to build the team around.
"When you spend as much as we did on Pogba it does make sense to get the most out of that investment, otherwise to a degree it's a wasted investment"
Same for every player, so you should balance things and not build around 1 player.
This building the team around a player is such a weird thing. ManUtd didn't sign players to bring best out of Pogba, they did to improve the team.Every player signed is somehow linked with "Bringing best out of Pogba".,
You've missed my point, you purchase players that compliment what you have. What I'm saying is that the term 'build a team around a player' is a bit of a nonsense. All it means is that you recruit players that bring the best out of what you have.
I disagree with your view of Pogba, when fit his numbers speak for themselves. If you don't think we should buy players that compliment a £90 million pound signing then all your doing is ignoring the potential strengths within the side.
If he is so versatile why did Paul have to play deep so to allow him to play AM? If Paul is disposable then I am pretty sure every other player we have bar Rashford and Greenwood would be as well.
Think you may have your argument backwards.
Ole specifically said he would build around Paul and while I do not really know what that means those were his words.
Funny you would claim building around a player restricts other players as the only player being restricted at the moment is Paul. Who all of a sudden hardly makes less forays forward, hardly gets in to the box, or hardly strikes from distance, all of which are some of the best facets to his game.
Fernandes is not a patch on Paul but in any case why compare them? But as you have already done so, besides penalties, diving and closing down defenders what does Fernandes do to make him better or even on the same level...
For once we agree. Fernandes is more than twice as influential, and yet costs half as much.
Right now absolutely not. He has 2 years on his contract, clubs don't have a lot of money so we would probably struggle to get what we paid for him
Next season though I would probably sell him. he would be coming into the last year of his deal, and to renew it would probably mean we would have to make him our highest earner until he is around his mid 30's. Which I don't think is advisable, the guy is a really special talent, but has always had a tendency to just go missing from games. I don't think being tied to a player like that on massive wages going into there 30's would end well.
So keep now, sell next summer.
Next season though I would probably sell him. he would be coming into the last year of his deal, and to renew it would probably mean we would have to make him our highest earner until he is around his mid 30's. Which I don't think is advisable, the guy is a really special talent, but has always had a tendency to just go missing from games. I don't think being tied to a player like that on massive wages going into there 30's would end well.
So keep now, sell next summer.
What do you consider return on investment?
Not really, when was our last signing that was labelled as such? There should be only one player signed to get the most out of Pogba and that's an elite level DM (which we've not signed in his time here.)
You have highlighted just one part of it to take it completely out of context and also changed the meaning of the post by 180 degree
We shouldn't be building a team around him at all. Keep him by all means if he truly wants to stay and sign a new contract. However from what we've had from him on the pitch he's not the man you build around at all. He's not lived up to the hype. Not even close.
Bruno is a better candidate for me. Made a bigger impact at the club in a much shorter time frame, he's a proper leader, and doesn't have many games where he 'phones it in' like Pogba does. Even when Bruno is off his game he puts the work in. We get too many games from Pogba where you barely notice he's playing at times.
Bruno is a better candidate for me. Made a bigger impact at the club in a much shorter time frame, he's a proper leader, and doesn't have many games where he 'phones it in' like Pogba does. Even when Bruno is off his game he puts the work in. We get too many games from Pogba where you barely notice he's playing at times.
Well, go on then, what was the last 'signing we made to accommodate Pogba'?
I haven't highlighted anything other than what would be categorically a signing that would directly improve Pogba's game, which I believe would be a DM signing. No other position on the pitch would allow him freedom to play a more unrestricted midfield roll from the left (which is what people tend to hint at when they claim we need to make signings to 'accommodate' him.)
Rarely does any team build around one player, however there is a big difference between a broad statement like that and the reality of signing new players that compliment what you already have. That's how good teams are built and how teams get the best out of, ya know, their best players.
Edit; It's like people sit there and think 'why should I buy a defensive midfielder to get the best out of our record signing' or 'how dare Pogba cost this much and not single-handedly circumvent the requirement to continue building this squad and remove all need for us to purchase players that complement what we already have.'
Ironically what we need to get the best out of him is what the team needs for balance anyway.
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I can see lots of people are still acting under the pretence that if we sold him he will not be replaced and we will just end up playing Pereira or Lingard Obviously if he is sold we need to replace him.
I think most people who don't have a pogfetish are thinking more along the lines of should we bother trying to persuade him to stay if a buyer actually came in for him and matched the clubs valuation...? Do you rate him that highly, has he shown enough, is he going to finally live up to his potential to be worth the hassle of convincing him to stay....
Obviously if he is sold we need to replace him.I think most people who don't have a pogfetish are thinking more along the lines of should we bother trying to persuade him to stay if a buyer actually came in for him and matched the clubs valuation...? Do you rate him that highly, has he shown enough, is he going to finally live up to his potential to be worth the hassle of convincing him to stay....
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You just read my post in completely wrong way.
Van de beek will most likely be his replacement, rather than looking for another big name to splash out on.I can see lots of people are still acting under the pretence that if we sold him he will not be replaced and we will just end up playing Pereira or Lingard
I think most people who don't have a pogfetish are thinking more along the lines of should we bother trying to persuade him to stay if a buyer actually came in for him and matched the clubs valuation...
VDB was needed regardless. Another player that can play CM/AM would be needed if Pogba left
Apologies sir. I indeed read your post as though you were saying we had signed many players to accommodate Pogba.
My bad.
I do think it's worth debating though, as like you say, many seem to think this has been the case.
I had lot of debates on that, somehow people have made up their mind and believe that every move we make in transfer market is to boost Pogba ego or get best out of him, completely ignoring we sign players to improve the team.Apologies sir. I indeed read your post as though you were saying we had signed many players to accommodate Pogba.
My bad.
I do think it's worth debating though, as like you say, many seem to think this has been the case.