Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Foxbatt]

Come on, cheer up a bit. Three points!

I don’t think there is anything in this idea that we have no system. It’s arguable that SAF never had a system you can easily describe. We scored goals in all ways and conceded them in all ways. We had better players is the main difference.

The players we’ve got are not amazing at all. We have some good players but they would not get into most of SAFs teams.

That said, we are rusty and will get better. We were a bit rubbish today but we still won and what a finish to the game. I’m happy. (I won’t be happy if we don’t get better but that’s for another day).

SAF had a system. With Cole and York it was York dropping deep. We had Becks on the right who is not a winger but a midfield player who doesn't get to the byline. Giggs can but you normally see him starting on the touchline and coming inside.
We had a midfield of Keane and Scholes and we know the way each player has to play.
There has to be a set way to play in general and positional play within the framework.
This why we rely on individual players to create every chance. We don't play in triangles or diamonds. That's why we see all players trying to beat two or three opposition players.
Yes I am happy we got three points but I don't think we are going to make top 4 this year.
We surely need a better coaching staff even if we keep Ole.

 

[Giggzy P]

Actually winning games. We have been better at that.

Ok, guess the "stats" without any perspective do prove that. My problem is, I do believe we have the players to not be going into a season hoping only to finish in the top 4. Because that is were we are at right now, we scrapped into 4th last season, and by the looks of it, its going to be another season hoping we get into the top 4. I am Ok with that for now, but the least we should be hoping for after 18 months with Ole, i just don't see what exactly we are building in terms of an identity.
Bruno gave us a lift and some good results, but without a system of play, patterns when we attack and when we transition to defending, we could bring Ronaldo or Messi it wouldn't help.
The excuse of the short break from last season is nonsense, Ole just doesn't know what his doing.

 

[ExoduS]

This is nonsense.

I am not a great fan of Pogba, but to suggest we feck him off and everything falls into place is fecking bordering on delusional.

Honestly....Ole ain't that good and Pogba ain't that bad.

It is a damn good start. The guy just doesn't fit here. We are forcing it to work, but it doesn't. He had like 5 good games for us since he came here and rest is pure mediocraty. I am not saying we will win the league, but it will open the space for new players. Pogba isn't good for us. I am sure he will start to murder it as soon as he goes somewhere else. Man Utd is not the place for him sadly.

 

[bonothom]

The absolute pathetic substitutions and 5 4 1 formation of the last 10 minutes against Brighton is reason alone that he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[ExoduS]

Is this serious? Pogba his form combined with the PSG result got Ole the job...

Ole fans blame Pogba for Ole his performances and Pogba fans blame Ole for Pogba his performances?

Pogba had few good games once Mourinho left. He sort of felt relieved or like he won the battle and he did play well for that period. Still, very few world class performances. Since he got back from the injury, he was poor, very poor. Defensive mistakes that lead to goals, handball for a penalty, clumsy and slow in the attack. Can't help defense get the ball out (altough, the whole system here is bad as our players do not understnad that they have to move into open spaces to deflect the pressure and get the ball out). Pogba has been a mess and needs to be dropped and sold if we can get something for him still.

 

[RedSky]

Can we stop with the fecking Trump references in here, it's idiotic and frankly insulting.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

So is Chelsea getting battered to WBA 27 minutes in because Lampard is shit? And should he be sacked?

This aged well. And yea he'll probably be sacked soon anyway.

 

[crossy1686]

This aged well. And yea he'll probably be sacked soon anyway.

Aged fine, Chelsea dropped points, we won. The parallels between the fitness of both teams is loud and clear.

 

[Monkey bus]

Ok, guess the "stats" without any perspective do prove that. My problem is, I do believe we have the players to not be going into a season hoping only to finish in the top 4. Because that is were we are at right now, we scrapped into 4th last season, and by the looks of it, its going to be another season hoping we get into the top 4. I am Ok with that for now, but the least we should be hoping for after 18 months with Ole, i just don't see what exactly we are building in terms of an identity.
Bruno gave us a lift and some good results, but without a system of play, patterns when we attack and when we transition to defending, we could bring Ronaldo or Messi it wouldn't help.
The excuse of the short break from last season is nonsense, Ole just doesn't know what his doing.

How can we hope for better than last season when every team around us has strengthened their squads with quality. We finished 3rd by the way but I’ll overlook that.
Which team above us last season should we be expecting to overtake with Ole in charge or any other Manager?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Aged fine, Chelsea dropped points, we won. The parallels between the fitness of both teams is loud and clear.

Frankly, I don't care about them. I care about us and right now, we're painful to watch when we win, lose or draw.

 

[pocco]

This will prove to be the most damaging appointment in my opinion. His signings are looking poor and he's going to be given more and more time until we're in tatters. This was all very predictable though, some of us saw the signs and saw his managerial history.

We've never once looked a well drilled team, more a team of individuals that can muster something up now and then. We look predictable in attack but we've never once looked remotely resolute in defence, even with all the money spent.

If he wasn't a club legend I'd have so much more to say but he's a lame dog and there's only one outcome for him. Just imagine the magnitude of the turnaround we'd have to witness for Ole to get us competing with the best teams in the world. It's just never, ever going to happen.

 

[OrcaFat]

SAF had a system. With Cole and York it was York dropping deep. We had Becks on the right who is not a winger but a midfield player who doesn't get to the byline. Giggs can but you normally see him starting on the touchline and coming inside.
We had a midfield of Keane and Scholes and we know the way each player has to play.
There has to be a set way to play in general and positional play within the framework.
This why we rely on individual players to create every chance. We don't play in triangles or diamonds. That's why we see all players trying to beat two or three opposition players.
Yes I am happy we got three points but I don't think we are going to make top 4 this year.
We surely need a better coaching staff even if we keep Ole.

I’m not averse to getting some different coaches and maybe they can get better results but what you’ve described above is not a system it is just a list of exceptionally good players.

 

[crossy1686]

Frankly, I don't care about them. I care about us and right now, we're painful to watch when we win, lose or draw.

Viewing our issues under a microscope doesn't tell the whole story and isn't conductive. Look around and see that everyone is in the same boat right now, everyone's shipping goals in and looking shit at the back.

There are two possible scenarios.

The whole league has collectively decided to abandon defending, the coaching of defending and organisation at the back, or no one has had any time to do pre season conditioning and work on team organisation.

Decide what you want but it's clear what the issue is and viewing us in a bubble will lead you to believe all kinds of wild theories.

 

[Abhinav]

We need to be patient and see if we have built on the progress in the 2nd half of last season after the team has got a few matches under the belt. It is painfully obvious to see that a lot of the players are not fully up to speed. The intensity & rhythm should hopefully comeback once players are fully fit. Till then lets hope the team grinds out results.
I just feel that Ole gets a lot of unnecessary stick for things that are really absurd and in a lot of cases not in his control. For e.g., we had this whole debate about Ole not having any clue because he didn’t decide on a designated penalty taker at the beginning of last season when our players couldn’t seemingly put the ball in the back of the net from the spot. Now that we have Bruno, a genuine quality spot kick taker, there is no fuss and no confusion. If the tools that you have keep malfunctioning, there is only so much that a craftsman can do. Same is with the manager when he is hamstrung by the lack of depth and quality in critical areas of the pitch.

 

[DevilRed]

Player fitness looks horrific. Much better today, especially once we went a goal down, but the likes of Pogba, Martial, AWB, Lindelof just look well off the pace.

Needs time to rectify this. I wish the board would back him and get some reinforcements in to freshen up the team. Especially in defence and upfront.

 

[Rightnr]

This whole thing about player fitness is also interesting.

Isn't the manager in charge of player fitness? If we had to cut their summer break by half to make sure they are fit, why didn't we do that? Plenty other people have not had a holiday because they have no job to come back to, so it's hardly a major sacrifice to make them jump into the new season quicker, instead of going to Greece, Dubai or wherever the hell they were.

It's frankly puzzling how this fitness topic is somehow separate from the manager.

 

[Denis79]

This whole thing about player fitness is also interesting.

Isn't the manager in charge of player fitness? If we had to cut their summer break by half to make sure they are fit, why didn't we do that? Plenty other people have not had a holiday because they have no job to come back to, so it's hardly a major sacrifice to make them jump into the new season quicker, instead of going to Greece, Dubai or wherever the hell they were.

It's frankly puzzling how this fitness topic is somehow separate from the manager.

Depends on who you ask. Seems that a majority of fans are polarized when it comes to Ole and how well he does his job. The "Ole outs" will make anything Ole's fault, while the "Ole ins" will find any excuse but Ole himself. Truth is most likely somewhere in the middle.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

@RedBanker

You're missing the point, mate, which was to say Ole would be the fourth failed managerial appointment since SAF retired. Four in a row.

It doesn't add up.

Football has changed over the last 10 years which is why Moyes, VG and Mou weren't a success because they were stuck in a time warp with their football. Ole personally I don't think is good enough. So where do we go from here? Why not try one of the modern breed of managers to bring us into the 21st century? Just because the 3 before him (and maybe Ole) weren't a success doesn't mean we have to stop looking.

 

[Rightnr]

Depends on who you ask. Seems that a majority of fans are polarized when it comes to Ole and how well he does his job. The "Ole outs" will make anything Ole's fault, while the "Ole ins" will find any excuse but Ole himself. Truth is most likely somewhere in the middle.

I'm pretty much Ole Out (although realise he'd do OK with better players) but I genuinely would like to know for sure who is in charge of fitness.

If it's him, then I don't get how us being unfit absolves him of any fault.

 

[Denis79]

Football has changed over the last 10 years which is why Moyes, VG and Mou weren't a success because they were stuck in a time warp with their football. Ole personally I don't think is good enough. So where do we go from here? Why not try one of the modern breed of managers to bring us into the 21st century? Just because the 3 before him (and maybe Ole) weren't a success doesn't mean we have to stop looking.

This year will decide Oles faith without a doubt. I'm 100% that Woodward and the board will expect the same from Ole this season as they did from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, seemingly top 4. Let's see if he makes it.

 

[Leftback99]

This whole thing about player fitness is also interesting.

Isn't the manager in charge of player fitness? If we had to cut their summer break by half to make sure they are fit, why didn't we do that? Plenty other people have not had a holiday because they have no job to come back to, so it's hardly a major sacrifice to make them jump into the new season quicker, instead of going to Greece, Dubai or wherever the hell they were.

It's frankly puzzling how this fitness topic is somehow separate from the manager.

No manager would not have given the players a proper break after our season finished (it might even be some sort of FIFA rule that they have to have one - i'm not sure) which was compounded with internationals the week they were due back. Not everything has to be about Ole.

 

[Denis79]

I'm pretty much Ole Out (although realise he'd do OK with better players) but I genuinely would like to know for sure who is in charge of fitness.

If it's him, then I don't get how us being unfit absolves him of any fault.

It doesn't absolve him even if he isn't in charge of fitness, he appoints his own staff. But it doesn't mean he's the only one to blame either. I think the problem goes deeper than just fitness. Our players don't look motivated.

 

[Trophy Room]

I love the high press - wish we could be consistently good at it.

 

[Rightnr]

No manager would not have given the players a proper break after our season finished (it might even be some sort of FIFA rule that they have to have one - i'm not sure) which was compounded with internationals the week they were due back. Not everything has to be about Ole.

Sure but if this was SAF, he'd have pulled our players off internationals and used that for their break. It's just basic common sense.

He can't be blamed for everything but he's in charge of preparing us for the new season, not Woodward or the board. They're guilty of being thieves but this is a separate topic.

 

[DevilRed]

I love the high press - wish we could be consistently good at it.

Better fitness will go a long way to implementing this.

Just need more games under the belt for the players. Especially Pogba, AWB, Rashford, Martial etc.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Missed the game today but by all accounts, it sounds like we were horrendous. I haven't yet reverted back to Ole out and think he certainly deserves a-bit more time as finishing third was a good achievement, even if it was somewhat lucky.

However, one of the things I said at the end of last season was that he really needs to improve our teams style of play and we need to look well drilled and cohesive. We have looked anything but so far this season which is a worry. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as we're only 3 games into the new season. I was Ole out for a long time until around February. He started to win me over to a degree post-lockdown, but our football in the last few games of the season went to shit, which again, was a worry.

I've never seen 'it' with him and he looks out of his depth in a tactical and coaching sense. However, I'll give him credit for some of the work he's done and he'll leave the squad in far better shape than Jose did. It's still early days this season so let's wait and see but the early signs are a cause for concern. I can fully understand why some vehemently want him gone.

 

[DevilRed]

Sure but if this was SAF, he'd have pulled our players off internationals and used that for their break. It's just basic common sense.

He can't be blamed for everything but he's in charge of preparing us for the new season, not Woodward or the board. They're guilty of being thieves but this is a separate topic.

OGS begged southgate not to take Greenwood on international duty but was ignored.

I believe Rashford also had an "injury".

Its a perfect storm of shite to be fair. The restart was much too soon for us as our season ended very late.

 

[lewwoo]

This year will decide Oles faith without a doubt. I'm 100% that Woodward and the board will expect the same from Ole this season as they did from Moyes, LVG and Mourinho, seemingly top 4. Let's see if he makes it.

They have no right to expect top 4 from him if they dont back him and strengthen like all of the teams around us have.

 

[Abhinav]

It doesn't absolve him even if he isn't in charge of fitness, he appoints his own staff. But it doesn't mean he's the only one to blame either. I think the problem goes deeper than just fitness. Our players don't look motivated.

I don’t know if its rustiness or motivation. But lets look at the human angle to this. The players, the key ones, ran themselves into ground and put in a massive effort to get to us to third. In a normal season, they would take some time off, come back recharged, have time to prepare during pre-season. Unfortunately, the Covid situation has turned everything on its head and the schedule is really punishing. These key players are expecting reinforcements so that they can be managed better and don’t have to exhaust themselves again. What does our executives do? Sit on their asses and pull out excuses while others around us are strengthening massively. Its not really a very motivating environment is it? We needed to invest to progress and built on our momentum instead our ineptitude board has turned a positive situation into a negative one.

 

[Denis79]

They have no right to expect top 4 from him if they dont back him and strengthen like all of the teams around us have.

I'm not saying they have a right, that's another discussion. I think they will though.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don’t know if its rustiness or motivation. But lets look at the human angle to this. The players, the key ones, ran themselves into ground and put in a massive effort to get to us to third. In a normal season, they would take some time off, come back recharged, have time to prepare during pre-season. Unfortunately, the Covid situation has turned everything on its head and the schedule is really punishing. These key players are expecting reinforcements so that they can be managed better and don’t have to exhaust themselves again. What does our executives do? Sit on their asses and pull out excuses while others around us are strengthening massively. Its not really a very motivating environment is it? We needed to invest to progress and built on our momentum instead our ineptitude board has turned a positive situation into a negative one.

We are not losing matches because we are tired and fatigued. We are not losing in the final minutes. We have not been in the game from the start. We have no set up and pattern of movement. It has got nothing to do with tiredness unless they are getting over worked physically during training. It does not matter much if it is Pogba or Fred who is playing. Whether it is is Brandon or AWB or Bailly or Lindelof. It is a shambles.

 

[Denis79]

I don’t know if its rustiness or motivation. But lets look at the human angle to this. The players, the key ones, ran themselves into ground and put in a massive effort to get to us to third. In a normal season, they would take some time off, come back recharged, have time to prepare during pre-season. Unfortunately, the Covid situation has turned everything on its head and the schedule is really punishing. These key players are expecting reinforcements so that they can be managed better and don’t have to exhaust themselves again. What does our executives do? Sit on their asses and pull out excuses while others around us are strengthening massively. Its not really a very motivating environment is it? We needed to invest to progress and built on our momentum instead our ineptitude board has turned a positive situation into a negative one.

I agree with you and we've seen this happen over and over. We buy players who start with so much energy and motivation to just fade away and become mediocre. I'll probably get a lot of stick for this but I think we have huge problems beyond just our manager choices. Yeah Woodward and the board have been stingy this transfer window but we have invested heavily since Moyes departure.

We lack the right leaders in the squad and around it that will instill that winner mentality, motivate, push.

 

[OneUnited24]

Player fitness looks horrific. Much better today, especially once we went a goal down, but the likes of Pogba, Martial, AWB, Lindelof just look well off the pace.

Needs time to rectify this. I wish the board would back him and get some reinforcements in to freshen up the team. Especially in defence and upfront.

I think the fitness levels are ok but it’s down to sharpness. Saw so many stray balls today and vs CP. I think our preseason prep was worse than other teams in the league.

We had several players who were in isolation given their holiday destinations. Pogba had Covid, Maguire and his troubles with the law, Greenwood’s antics. We also only played a single preseason game which we lost. I read recently that on average other clubs had 3-4 preseason games and a competitive game on top of that.

we just look short of that final bit of sharpness. Now I get this all just sounds like excuses but I’ve seen this team play better then we have seen over the past two weeks. If in a few weeks the performance levels are still like this I’ll start to look at the manager and coaches but for now we just need games

 

[DevilRed]

I think the fitness levels are ok but it’s down to sharpness. Saw so many stray balls today and vs CP. I think our preseason prep was worse than other teams in the league.

We had several players who were in isolation given their holiday destinations. Pogba had Covid, Maguire and his troubles with the law, Greenwood’s antics. We also only played a single preseason game which we lost. I read recently that on average other clubs had 3-4 preseason games and a competitive game on top of that.

we just look short of that final bit of sharpness. Now I get this all just sounds like excuses but I’ve seen this team play better then we have seen over the past two weeks. If in a few weeks the performance levels are still like this I’ll start to look at the manager and coaches but for now we just need games

Agreed. If we still don't improve in a few weeks time then you'd have to start looking at the coaching staff/certain players.

Until then we just have to grind it out. Get the 3 points through grit and a bit of luck.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We're regressing which is a worry.

That performance today was simply unacceptable.

We really need to pick it up and quick.

 

[simonhch]

Why is everyone getting on Ole? We have had zero, ZERO preseason. He got most of the players 5 days before the opening game. We are playing teams who have had full preseasons. This is an absolute joke from the premiere league.

People expecting us to be anything other than rusty and disjointed are having a laugh.

 

[Andersonson]

The players almost got no rest and the pre-season was very much interrupted by everything that goes on, internationals and COVID. The fitness coaches has had almost no time to get the players fit and ready.

It shouldn't be a surprise that the players are not in form. Hopefully we can clinch some victories until we burst out and start to hit real form.

The pressure on players to play week in and week out is absurd. They are only humans.

 

[MZX7]

Ok, guess the "stats" without any perspective do prove that. My problem is, I do believe we have the players to not be going into a season hoping only to finish in the top 4. Because that is were we are at right now, we scrapped into 4th last season, and by the looks of it, its going to be another season hoping we get into the top 4. I am Ok with that for now, but the least we should be hoping for after 18 months with Ole, i just don't see what exactly we are building in terms of an identity.
Bruno gave us a lift and some good results, but without a system of play, patterns when we attack and when we transition to defending, we could bring Ronaldo or Messi it wouldn't help.
The excuse of the short break from last season is nonsense, Ole just doesn't know what his doing.

Agree with the bolded part but we do need more quality in the ranks to challenge Pool or City.

 

[MZX7]

They have no right to expect top 4 from him if they dont back him and strengthen like all of the teams around us have.

Yea, I guess if they don't bring in any further reinforcements, they will revise their targets to Top 6 for Ole. Pathetic wankers.

 

[Amir]

Agree with the bolded part but we do need more quality in the ranks to challenge Pool or City.

Or Palace or Brighton...

Yeah, of course we need more quality, but I get this feeling that rather than having a manager who will make the team look better than the sum of its parts, we need a top-quality team that will carry the manager.